Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124

03/29/2012 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Moved Out of Committee
Moved CSHB 364(CRA) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
    HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                   
                         March 29, 2012                                                                                         
                           8:05 a.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Representative Cathy Engstrom Munoz, Chair                                                                                      
Representative Neal Foster, Vice Chair                                                                                          
Representative Alan Austerman                                                                                                   
Representative Alan Dick                                                                                                        
Representative Dan Saddler                                                                                                      
Representative Sharon Cissna                                                                                                    
Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                    
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
HOUSE BILL NO. 366                                                                                                              
"An Act establishing  an Alaska intrastate mutual  aid system and                                                               
relating  to  the  duties  of the  Alaska  division  of  homeland                                                               
security and  emergency management and  the duties of  the Alaska                                                               
State Emergency Response Commission."                                                                                           
     - MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                                   
HOUSE BILL NO. 364                                                                                                              
"An Act  relating to a  credit against the  net income tax  for a                                                               
contribution made by a taxpayer  to a nonprofit organization that                                                               
provides an emergency shelter for  the homeless or a facility for                                                               
alcohol or drug detoxification."                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 364(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: HB 366                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: DISASTER PLANNING AND SERVICES                                                                                     
SPONSOR(s): COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS                                                                                        
03/15/12       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/15/12       (H)       MLV, CRA                                                                                               
03/27/12       (H)       MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/27/12       (H)       Moved Out of Committee                                                                                 
03/27/12       (H)       MINUTE(MLV)                                                                                            
03/28/12       (H)       MLV RPT 6DP                                                                                            
03/28/12       (H)       DP: MILLER, AUSTERMAN, CISSNA, LYNN,                                                                   
                         THOMPSON, SADDLER                                                                                      
03/29/12       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
BILL: HB 364                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: TAX CRED: CONTR. TO HOMELESS SHELT/DETOX                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS                                                                                        
03/12/12       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/12/12       (H)       CRA, FIN                                                                                               
03/22/12       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/22/12       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/22/12       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
03/29/12       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC FEIGE                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke as the sponsor of HB 366.                                                                          
MICHAEL PASCHALL, Staff                                                                                                         
Representative Eric Feige                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 366.                                                                                        
RICHARD ETHERIDGE, Chief                                                                                                        
Capital City Fire/Rescue;                                                                                                       
Second Vice President, Alaska Fire Chiefs Association                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 366.                                                                          
JIM BULTER, Attorney                                                                                                            
Baldwin & Butler                                                                                                                
Kenai, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Urged the committee to forward HB 366.                                                                   
DAVID GIBBS, Director                                                                                                           
Emergency Operations                                                                                                            
Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 366.                                                                          
DENNIS BRODIGAN, Director                                                                                                       
Department of Emergency Services                                                                                                
Matanuska-Susitna Borough                                                                                                       
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 366.                                                                          
BRYAN FISHER, Chief of Operations                                                                                               
Division of Homeland Security/Emergency Management                                                                              
Department of Military & Veterans Affairs (DMVA)                                                                                
Fort Richardson, Alaska                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 366.                                                                          
TERRY HARVEY, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative Munoz                                                                                                            
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided the committee with additional                                                                   
information on HB 366.                                                                                                          
JOHANNA BALES, Deputy Director                                                                                                  
Tax Division                                                                                                                    
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  During hearing of HB 364, answered                                                                       
DAN AUSTIN, General Manager                                                                                                     
St. Vincent de Paul Society of Juneau                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Urged the committee to forward HB 364.                                                                   
LAUREN RICE, Director                                                                                                           
Public Advocacy                                                                                                                 
Covenant House Alaska                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 364 and its                                                                   
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
8:05:21 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CATHY  ENGSTROM  MUNOZ  called  the  House  Community  and                                                             
Regional  Affairs Standing  Committee  meeting to  order at  8:05                                                               
a.m.  Representatives  Austerman,  Dick,  Saddler,  Gardner,  and                                                               
Munoz were present at the  call to order.  Representatives Foster                                                               
and Cissna arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                              
             HB 366-DISASTER PLANNING AND SERVICES                                                                          
8:05:39 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MUNOZ announced  that the first order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 366,  "An Act  establishing an  Alaska intrastate                                                               
mutual  aid system  and  relating  to the  duties  of the  Alaska                                                               
division of  homeland security and  emergency management  and the                                                               
duties of the Alaska State Emergency Response Commission."                                                                      
8:06:18 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  ERIC FEIGE,  Alaska  State Legislature,  informed                                                               
the  committee that  HB  366 proposes  to  establish a  statewide                                                               
mutual aid framework.   He explained that mutual aid  is a system                                                               
used by emergency service organizations  to provide backup to one                                                               
another.    It's fairly  common  for  neighboring communities  to                                                               
respond to a request from  a local fire department for additional                                                               
8:07:24 AM                                                                                                                    
MICHAEL PASCHALL, Staff, Representative  Eric Feige, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, presented HB 366 by  paraphrasing from the following                                                               
written remarks [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                
     For disclosure  purposes, I am  an assistant  chief and                                                                    
     board member of  a fire department that  may fall under                                                                    
     this  agreement  and I  chair  the  Delta Greely  Local                                                                    
     Emergency  Planning Committee,  which may  be asked  to                                                                    
     participate   in   planning   activities   under   this                                                                    
     agreement,  and am  a  member of  the  State of  Alaska                                                                    
     Interoperable Communications Committee  under the State                                                                    
     Emergency Response Commission.                                                                                             
     Representative  Feige is  the chief  of the  Chickaloon                                                                    
     Volunteer  Fire  Department   and  may  participate  in                                                                    
     activities under this agreement.                                                                                           
     According to  the Federal Emergency  Management Agency:                                                                    
     "Mutual  aid agreements  and assistance  agreements are                                                                    
     agreements   between   agencies,   organizations,   and                                                                    
     jurisdictions  that  provide  a  mechanism  to  quickly                                                                    
     obtain emergency  assistance in the form  of personnel,                                                                    
     equipment,  materials, and  other associated  services.                                                                    
     The primary  objective is  to facilitate  rapid, short-                                                                    
     term deployment of emergency  support prior to, during,                                                                    
     and after an incident."                                                                                                    
     Through  the  EMAC   (Emergency  Management  Assistance                                                                    
     Compact),  all 50  states,  the  District of  Columbia,                                                                    
     Puerto  Rico, Guam,  and the  U.S.  Virgin Islands  all                                                                    
     have agreed  and established guidelines to  provide aid                                                                    
     across state boarders.                                                                                                     
     Across  Alaska, local  organizations  adjacent to  each                                                                    
     other sometimes  have agreements to  provide assistance                                                                    
     in the  event of  an emergency,  often within  the same                                                                    
     political  subdivision.  When   an  incident  commander                                                                    
     needs  additional  resources,  such  as  an  additional                                                                    
     ambulance, established procedures work  to make the aid                                                                    
     Unlike  the  EMAC  that allows  response  across  state                                                                    
     borders, and  local agreements that  provide assistance                                                                    
     for  isolated   incidents  -  Alaska  has   no  unified                                                                    
     agreement in  place allowing one  political subdivision                                                                    
     to assist another.                                                                                                         
     Although  assistance  can  be   obtained,  all  of  the                                                                    
     details  concerning  cost,  responsibility,  liability,                                                                    
     and other details have to  be negotiated on a situation                                                                    
     by situation basis.                                                                                                        
     When  an  event occurs,  people  work  to continue  the                                                                    
     operation  or the  reestablishment  of these  services.                                                                    
     Time is not  available to negotiate items  such as: Who                                                                    
     will pay the  transportation costs to the  area? Who is                                                                    
     responsible  for  maintenance?  Who  can  terminate  an                                                                    
     employee? Etc.                                                                                                             
     HB 366  and its  companion in the  other body,  SB 208,                                                                    
     will  put in  place  a tool  that  will make  assisting                                                                    
     those  in  need easier  for  us  here in  Alaska.  This                                                                    
     process is  not just  about typical  emergency services                                                                    
     such as  fire, police, and emergency  medical services.                                                                    
     It  also  includes  everything  from  water  and  sewer                                                                    
     treatment facilities, electricity  and other utilities,                                                                    
     care  of pets  and livestock,  debris removal,  shelter                                                                    
     management,  transportation,  fuel  delivery  etc.  All                                                                    
     services  individuals expect  to be  available to  them                                                                    
     before, during and after an emergency.                                                                                     
     The National  Emergency Management  Association (NEMA),                                                                    
     Federal   Emergency  Management   Agency  (FEMA),   and                                                                    
     interested  emergency response  organizations developed                                                                    
     model legislation  for an intrastate mutual  aid system                                                                    
     (IMAS).  A  copy  of the  model  legislation  has  been                                                                    
     provided to you.                                                                                                           
     The bill you have before  you is Alaska's adaptation of                                                                    
     the IMAS. It was developed  by the Division of Homeland                                                                    
     Security and  Emergency Management in  conjunction with                                                                    
     several organizations including  the Alaska Fire Chiefs                                                                    
     Association,   Alaska   Municipal   League,   and   the                                                                    
     Fairbanks North Star Borough.                                                                                              
     Section  1  of  this  bill  requires  the  Division  of                                                                    
     Homeland Security  and Emergency Management to  play an                                                                    
     integral  part  in   developing  and  implementing  the                                                                    
     Intrastate Mutual Aid System established by this bill.                                                                     
     Section  2  requires  the division  to  coordinate  the                                                                    
     operation of the IMAS.                                                                                                     
     Section  3  addresses   the  State  Emergency  Response                                                                    
     Commission   and  requires   the  commission   to  make                                                                    
     recommendations  about   IMAS  and   adopt  regulations                                                                    
     necessary to carry out the agreement.                                                                                      
     Section 4  requires the commission  to review  and make                                                                    
     recommendations about the mutual aid system.                                                                               
     Section  5 establishes  the mutual  aid system  between                                                                    
     participating  political  subdivisions.  Provides  that                                                                    
     every political  subdivision is a  participating member                                                                    
     unless   the  subdivision   withdraws.  Provides   what                                                                    
     assistance   a  political   subdivision  may   request.                                                                    
     Addresses   qualifications  and   employment  of,   and                                                                    
     workers'   compensation   for,  emergency   responders.                                                                    
     Establishes  reimbursement  procedures, tort  liability                                                                    
     for  participating   political  subdivisions.  Provides                                                                    
     definitions for the  provisions establishing the mutual                                                                    
     aid system.                                                                                                                
8:12:25 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked if the mutual  aid system envisions                                                               
assistance  only for  disasters as  defined or  for responses  to                                                               
routine situations.                                                                                                             
MR. PASCHALL explained that under  this agreement, the requesting                                                               
political subdivision must declare a  local disaster in order for                                                               
the mutual  aid agreement to  come into effect.   This agreement,                                                               
he clarified is  not the type of agreement that's  utilized for a                                                               
house fire or a wreck.  The  purpose of this agreement is so that                                                               
say  Fairbanks  could provide  services  to  Eagle.   In  further                                                               
response to  Representative Saddler, Mr. Paschall  said he didn't                                                               
believe  the  term  "disaster"  is   defined  in  [HB  366],  and                                                               
therefore he offered to review how  it's defined in statute.  Mr.                                                               
Paschall related  that the  requesting subdivision  would declare                                                               
that it  has a  disaster in  that it  has exceeded  its available                                                               
resources and needs help.                                                                                                       
8:14:07 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE DICK  observed that HB  366 has been heard  in the                                                               
House  Special Committee  on Military  and Veterans'  Affairs and                                                               
was reported out from it with no changes.                                                                                       
MR. PASCHALL  confirmed that  was the  case.   He noted  that the                                                               
legislation was drafted  mutually with the House  and the Senate,                                                               
introduced by  the House Community and  Regional Affairs Standing                                                               
Committee in  order to move through  the House and catch  up with                                                               
the Senate legislation.                                                                                                         
8:15:11 AM                                                                                                                    
RICHARD  ETHERIDGE,  Chief,  Capital  City  Fire/Rescue,  Juneau,                                                               
Alaska; related support  for HB 366, which  creates the framework                                                               
for a  mutual aid  agreement within the  state.   Currently, each                                                               
department  has  to  negotiate with  neighboring  departments  to                                                               
develop  a  mutual  aid  agreement.    In  Southeast  Alaska  the                                                               
aforementioned  is difficult  because  there  are multiple  small                                                               
communities   that   aren't   connected   by   a   road   system.                                                               
Furthermore,  there  are  small  mining and  logging  camps  with                                                               
emergency  responders who  can be  overrun  and experience  major                                                               
disasters.   Since one  emergency responder  organization doesn't                                                               
know which agency  it'll be working with, it  isn't practical for                                                               
one   department   to   make  agreements   with   each   separate                                                               
municipality or  local government.   However, it does  make sense                                                               
for an emergency responder organization  to work with neighboring                                                               
departments  with which  they  work  on a  regular  basis.   This                                                               
legislation is  a collaborative effort between  the state, local,                                                               
and federal  agencies to  establish a  uniform framework  so that                                                               
everyone is on  the same page and has the  same expectations when                                                               
there  is  a  disaster.   Furthermore,  the  legislation  creates                                                               
common   definitions.     Mr.  Etheridge   highlighted  that   no                                                               
department in Alaska  has the ability to handle  a major disaster                                                               
on its  own, particularly since  smaller local  governments would                                                               
have  a  different  definition  of  "disaster"  than  the  larger                                                               
municipalities.    This  legislation  provides  a  framework  for                                                               
agencies  to  lend  assistance   during  a  disaster  and  avoids                                                               
negotiations for  payments and coverage during  the disaster, and                                                               
therefore  quickens the  ability  to lend  assistance.   Although                                                               
state  law  allows for  mutual  aid  agreements with  neighboring                                                               
departments,  it  isn't  practical.     Therefore,  HB  366  will                                                               
eliminate  the   aforementioned  administrative  process.     Mr.                                                               
Etheridge  informed the  committee  that in  the  last few  years                                                               
Juneau   has  been   called  more   often  to   help  neighboring                                                               
communities.   He  opined  that with  declining  budgets and  the                                                               
difficulty   faced  with   the  recruitment   and  retention   of                                                               
volunteers,  [establishing   an  Alaska  intrastate   mutual  aid                                                               
system] is  more important than ever.   For example, the  town of                                                               
Hoonah  is down  to eight  firefighters, and  therefore a  simple                                                               
structure fire could overwhelm Hoonah  and result in a request to                                                               
Juneau for  assistance.  In such  an event, time is  critical and                                                               
having this all  in place beforehand makes it easier  to lend aid                                                               
quickly.  He then told the  committee that just last month Juneau                                                               
Fire/Rescue was  called to Thorne  Bay for a  hazardous materials                                                               
call.  He  characterized HB 366 as common  sense legislation that                                                               
has all  the chiefs  and emergency managers  working on  the same                                                               
page.   In conclusion, Mr.  Etheridge related the support  of the                                                               
Alaska Fire  Chiefs Association and Capital  City Fire/Rescue for                                                               
HB 366, which he encouraged the committee to move forward.                                                                      
8:19:49 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER recalled  Mr. Paschall's earlier testimony                                                               
that a  community would have  to declare  a disaster in  order to                                                               
invoke the  mutual aid  system.   She asked  if the  situation in                                                               
which  Hoonah needed  help holding  a class  would require  it to                                                               
declare a disaster.                                                                                                             
MR.  ETHERIDGE  clarified that  HB  366  wouldn't impact  typical                                                               
things like that rather he  highlighted it in order to illustrate                                                               
the  shrinkage departments  are  experiencing.   He informed  the                                                               
committee that  the National  Fire Protection  Association (NFPA)                                                               
requests 18 people as a standard response to a structure fire.                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER surmised  then that effectively [emergency                                                               
responders  will continue]  working with  neighboring communities                                                               
in those ways.   She further surmised that HB  366 wouldn't cover                                                               
the issue of  liability in a situation in which  [a responder] is                                                               
injured,  for  instance,  when the  Juneau  Fire/Rescue  went  to                                                               
Thorne Bay to respond to the  hazardous material call.  She asked                                                               
if the liability  would be borne by the  community that requested                                                               
assistance or by the entity responding.                                                                                         
MR.  ETHERIDGE explained  that currently  they have  to negotiate                                                               
with  each community  when aid  is sent.   He  noted that  Juneau                                                               
Fire/Rescue does  assist prior to  the declaration of  a disaster                                                               
in  hopes  of keeping  the  situation  scaled down.    Therefore,                                                               
HB 366  would create  the  framework so  that  [the details]  are                                                               
specified  and each  individual  municipality  could model  their                                                               
agreements after that proposed in HB 366.                                                                                       
8:22:07 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  related his  understanding then  that the                                                               
definition of disaster is more a  function of the capability of a                                                               
community/department  to the  situation rather  than an  absolute                                                               
MR.  ETHERIDGE  replied  yes,  adding  that  it's  based  on  the                                                               
capabilities  of the  community either  through the  size of  its                                                               
emergency responders or the capabilities  of its department.  For                                                               
instance,  Juneau  Fire/Rescue  responded  to  the  situation  in                                                               
Hoonah  when two  of its  police  officers were  shot because  it                                                               
effectively  shut  down   Hoonah's  emergency  medical  services.                                                               
Although Juneau  Fire/Rescue was able to  provide assistance, the                                                               
logistics and details  took quite a bit of time  to work through.                                                               
This legislation would  allow the details to be  worked out prior                                                               
to the need for assistance.                                                                                                     
8:23:22 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER asked  if  there are  many logging  camps                                                               
left  in  Southeast   Alaska.    He  then  inquired   as  to  the                                                               
capabilities of  the logging  camps in  terms of  autonomous fire                                                               
protection or disaster response.                                                                                                
MR. ETHERIDGE  answered that some  logging camps will  have their                                                               
own small fire  brigades that would be volunteers.   He said that                                                               
there  are  some  small  logging  camps.   The  mining  camps  in                                                               
[Southeast Alaska] tend to have  more structured medical and fire                                                               
8:24:02 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  inquired  as  to  how  this  [intrastate                                                               
mutual  aid system]  would work  in terms  of Anchorage  that has                                                               
paid  firefighters   versus  Eagle   River  that   has  volunteer                                                               
firefighters.   He further inquired  as to whether  Anchorage and                                                               
Eagle  River would  be considered  one political  subdivision for                                                               
the purpose of  requesting mutual aid or would  there be sidebars                                                               
between the volunteer force and the professionals.                                                                              
MR.  ETHERIDGE  responded that  he  wasn't  sure how  such  close                                                               
neighboring communities would  work, but he imagined  it would be                                                               
up  to  political   leaders  in  the  communities   to  make  the                                                               
8:25:08 AM                                                                                                                    
JIM BULTER,  Attorney, Baldwin &  Butler, began by  informing the                                                               
committee  that he's  been involved  in  the incident  management                                                               
community for  a little over  20 years and remains  fairly active                                                               
with  both  the  public  and private  sector  corporate  incident                                                               
management teams that  work on the state,  regional, and national                                                               
levels.   He  related that  about 60-70  percent of  his practice                                                               
deals with  issues surrounding  incident management  and disaster                                                               
related issues  for a  variety of  clients.   Over the  years the                                                               
disaster system has been put  together principally by a plan, but                                                               
it's often  forgotten that the  plan is  the bone of  the system.                                                               
This  legislation,  he  opined,   provides  the  muscle  and  the                                                               
connective   tissue  in   that  it   provides  a   mechanism  for                                                               
participating   entities  to   pre-organize  the   system  that's                                                               
necessary   to   ensure    resources   move   between   different                                                               
jurisdictions,  particularly   in  the  area   of  nontraditional                                                               
resources.   Because fire and  hazardous materials  incidents are                                                               
more  frequent,  there are  clearer  lines  of authority  between                                                               
state  and local  agencies, especially  in the  area of  fire, to                                                               
move resources for  wild land fires.  The  situation becomes more                                                               
complex    when   there    is   the    need   to    move   public                                                               
works/utilities/specialist  resources.   This legislation  allows                                                               
pre-development of  a standardized system for  the administrative                                                               
matters  and helps  develop  a system  that  qualifies and  types                                                               
those  resources.   Mr. Butler  expressed hope  that HB  366 will                                                               
provide another tool for policymakers  who are in office during a                                                               
disaster in  their community, such that  there is a plan  as well                                                               
as administrative issues  in place.  In conclusion,  he urged the                                                               
committee to forward HB 366.                                                                                                    
8:28:42 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  asked if  Mr.  Butler  had any  role  in                                                               
bringing HB 366 forward.                                                                                                        
MR.  BUTLER   said  he  participated   collaterally  as   he  has                                                               
encouraged those  involved to move  along the process.   He noted                                                               
that  he  is  the  sole  public member  of  the  State  Emergency                                                               
Response Commission and  although he isn't speaking  on behalf of                                                               
the commission, supporting  the type of initiative in  HB 366 has                                                               
been  an issue  it  has  discussed for  some  time.   Mr.  Butler                                                               
saluted  those  involved  in taking  the  initiative  for  making                                                               
HB 366 happen.                                                                                                                  
8:29:38 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE DICK inquired  as to why the  statute is necessary                                                               
for something that makes so much sense.                                                                                         
MR. BUTLER  offered that in  many cases, municipalities  view the                                                               
authorities/responsibilities  granted   to  them   through  their                                                               
charter documents  or Title 29  work within the borders  of their                                                               
particular jurisdiction.  The concept  of moving resources across                                                               
the line is sometimes different than  what is planned for as they                                                               
typically   plan  for   situations  within   their  jurisdiction.                                                               
Furthermore, while  one municipality  may work with  its neighbor                                                               
with  a  mutual  aide  agreement, this  legislation  attempts  to                                                               
create a standardized framework  that's recognized on a statewide                                                               
level and would  allow issues with insurance  and risk management                                                               
to be  addressed so  that everyone  has "skin  in the  game" when                                                               
resources are moved between jurisdictions.                                                                                      
8:31:28 AM                                                                                                                    
DAVID  GIBBS,  Director,  Emergency Operations,  Fairbanks  North                                                               
Star Borough,  related the  support of  the Fairbanks  North Star                                                               
Borough (FNSB)  for HB  366.   The FNSB believes  HB 366  is good                                                               
public  policy and  provides  a framework  for  a consistent  and                                                               
integrated  mutual aid  system to  ensure  effective response  in                                                               
disaster situations.   He  informed the  committee that  the 2009                                                               
ice jam flooding provided real  world experience with this matter                                                               
and was  part of the impetus  for the legislation.   The FNSB was                                                               
asked to  provide fire  service to  the City  of Eagle  since its                                                               
volunteer fire department  was inundated with flood  waters.  The                                                               
FNSB emergency  management staff also assisted  with sheltering a                                                               
plane  load of  evacuees from  another Yukon  River village.   He                                                               
noted that  there was  an additional  request for  assistance for                                                               
animal care  and control, which  couldn't be provided  because of                                                               
the  lack of  an  agreement to  do so.    These communities  were                                                               
geographically  isolated  from  the borough,  and  therefore  the                                                               
borough  never contemplated  the need  for mutual  aid agreements                                                               
with them.   The myriad of issues that arose  impacted the FNSB's                                                               
ability to  provide timely assistance  to these  communities, and                                                               
thus  clearly  demonstrated  the  need  to  have  procedures  and                                                               
agreements in  place long  before a disaster  occurs.   Mr. Gibbs                                                               
opined  that the  establishment of  an integrated  and structured                                                               
intrastate  mutual  aid  system  as   proposed  by  HB  366  will                                                               
substantially close the gap.                                                                                                    
8:34:06 AM                                                                                                                    
DENNIS  BRODIGAN,  Director,  Department of  Emergency  Services,                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna  Borough, related  support for  HB 366  for all                                                               
the  reasons stated  by his  colleagues.   This legislation  will                                                               
assist  those [communities]  with  finite resources  in times  of                                                               
disaster as it  will provide a clearing house  to gain additional                                                               
resources in a timelier manner.                                                                                                 
8:35:07 AM                                                                                                                    
BRYAN  FISHER,   Chief  of   Operations,  Division   of  Homeland                                                               
Security/Emergency Management, Department  of Military & Veterans                                                               
Affairs  (DMVA), related  support for  HB 366.   He  informed the                                                               
committee that DMVA has worked  with local jurisdictions over the                                                               
last  few  years to  put  together  the language  encompassed  in                                                               
HB 366.    The  legislation  directs  the  Division  of  Homeland                                                               
Security/Emergency   Management   to   work  primarily   as   the                                                               
administrative management piece  in order to ensure  that all the                                                               
policies, procedures,  necessary documentation  on reimbursement,                                                               
et  cetera are  in place.   The  legislation further  directs the                                                               
State    Emergency   Response    Commission   to    oversee   the                                                               
implementation of IMAS.  Statutorily  the division is responsible                                                               
for review of interjurisdictional disaster  response plans and to                                                               
work  with  local governments  to  ensure  that the  division  is                                                               
prepared  to meet  any size  disaster in  the state.   Currently,                                                               
division  staff is  the primary  support to  the State  Emergency                                                               
Response  Commission.   Therefore,  the  legislation  has a  zero                                                               
fiscal note because  it's already part of  the division's routine                                                               
business to ensure that the  plans are in place, coordinated, and                                                               
appropriate  records  maintained.    With regard  to  an  earlier                                                               
question,  Mr.  Fisher  informed  the  committee  that  the  term                                                               
"disaster" is defined  in the Alaska Disaster  Act, AS 26.23.900.                                                               
Furthermore,  the  language  in AS  26.23.140  enables  principle                                                               
executive officers of a political  subdivision to declare a local                                                               
disaster.  Mr.  Fisher concluded by stating that  the division is                                                               
fully prepared to support HB 366.                                                                                               
8:37:33 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  stated she  was  puzzled  with the  zero                                                               
fiscal note  because on page  1, line  9, the language  says, "To                                                               
this  end, it  may employ  or  otherwise secure  the services  of                                                               
professional and technical personnel ...."                                                                                      
MR.  FISHER  explained that  there  are  times when  a  political                                                               
subdivision  has  contracted  response personnel  for  day-to-day                                                               
response, such  as to  run public  works facilities.   Therefore,                                                               
the intent of  the language was to ensure that  those folks would                                                               
be covered  so that  contracted public  works personnel  from one                                                               
municipality could be used in another municipality.                                                                             
8:38:50 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. PASCHALL,  in response to  earlier questions,  explained that                                                               
in  terms  of  Anchorage  and Eagle  River  the  Municipality  of                                                               
Anchorage is  one political subdivision  and has  agreements with                                                               
the  two volunteer  fire departments  within it.   The  Fairbanks                                                               
North  Star  Borough has  numerous  fire  departments within  the                                                               
municipality as  well as in the  City of North Pole  and the City                                                               
of Fairbanks, which  are separate subdivisions.   The intent with                                                               
HB  366  is  to  address situations  such  as  Valdez  requesting                                                               
equipment from Deltana, which would  be anticipated.  With regard                                                               
to training, Mr.  Paschall directed attention to  the language on                                                               
page  5, line  28, and  on page  6,  lines 5  and 7,  which is  a                                                               
response guideline as well as a preparation guideline.                                                                          
8:40:53 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER related that  she was disappointed that no                                                               
one from  Anchorage is  testifying on HB  366, which  she assumes                                                               
means  Anchorage isn't  troubled by  the legislation.   She  then                                                               
posed a  scenario in which HB  366 becomes law and  Anchorage has                                                               
existing  agreements with  other subdivisions,  which would  take                                                               
MR.  PASCHALL clarified  that this  doesn't override  existing or                                                               
future agreements between political subdivisions.                                                                               
8:41:55 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER surmised  then that HB 366  speaks more to                                                               
the  relationship  for mutual  aid  between  the Municipality  of                                                               
Anchorage  and  the   Matanuska-Susitna  Borough,  for  instance,                                                               
rather  than  the  Anchorage  Fire  Department  and  the  Chugiak                                                               
Volunteer Fire Department.                                                                                                      
MR. PASCHALL responded that's correct.                                                                                          
8:42:17 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  referred to the definition  of "disaster"                                                               
in  AS 26.23.900,  which  doesn't include  the  component of  the                                                               
ability  to  respond   to  the  capacity  as   mentioned  by  Mr.                                                               
Etheridge.   Therefore, he expressed interest  in reconciling the                                                               
different definitions of "disaster".                                                                                            
MR. PASCHALL  explained that  responders provide  assistance when                                                               
the  receiving/requesting  entity   has  exceeded  its  capacity,                                                               
otherwise  they  wouldn't ask  for  assistance.   The  definition                                                               
speaks  to  who  can  declare   a  disaster.    For  example,  an                                                               
unincorporated  village,  which  is  defined as  a  community  of                                                               
greater than  25 people,  can declare a  disaster.   Upon further                                                               
clarification  from  Legislative  Legal   Services,  he  said  he                                                               
understood that any  unique or cohesive area  could be considered                                                               
a   community,  a   political  subdivision,   and  thus   request                                                               
assistance  under  this  agreement.     In  further  response  to                                                               
Representative Saddler,  Mr. Paschall stated that  he hadn't seen                                                               
any language that addressed the  number of times a disaster could                                                               
be  declared.    However,  an executive  officer  can  declare  a                                                               
disaster for  up to  seven days.   Following the  initial period,                                                               
the  municipal body  has to  provide  a formal  statement of  the                                                               
declaration of a  disaster.  He reminded the  committee that this                                                               
is in  reference to  a local disaster  because a  larger disaster                                                               
would be declared by the governor  and the disaster cabinet.  Mr.                                                               
Paschall  emphasized that  [the details/agreements  for a  larger                                                               
disaster] are  already in place,  this legislation  addresses how                                                               
small communities  declare disasters  or emergencies and  ask for                                                               
assistance from others.                                                                                                         
8:44:55 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER characterized [HB  366] as smart planning;                                                               
however, he asked if there are  any areas of the legislation that                                                               
could be improved.                                                                                                              
MR.  PASCHALL  noted  that  he  didn't  participate  actively  in                                                               
drafting HB 366, but believes it  was well done and addresses the                                                               
unique aspects of Alaska.                                                                                                       
8:46:15 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MUNOZ closed public testimony.                                                                                            
8:46:43 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  moved to report  HB 366 out  of committee                                                               
with individual recommendations and  the accompanying zero fiscal                                                               
note.  There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                             
8:47:18 AM                                                                                                                    
The committee took an at-ease from 8:47 a.m. to 8:49 a.m.                                                                       
        HB 364-TAX CRED: CONTR. TO HOMELESS SHELT/DETOX                                                                     
8:49:57 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MUNOZ announced  that the final order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 364, "An Act  relating to a credit against the net                                                               
income tax for  a contribution made by a taxpayer  to a nonprofit                                                               
organization that provides an emergency  shelter for the homeless                                                               
or a facility for alcohol or drug detoxification."                                                                              
8:50:15 AM                                                                                                                    
TERRY   HARVEY,  Staff,   Representative   Munoz,  Alaska   State                                                               
Legislature,  pointed  out  that  the  committee  should  have  a                                                               
Legislative  Research  Services'  document  that  identifies  the                                                               
nonprofit   emergency  and   drug   and  alcohol   detoxification                                                               
facilities in Alaska.   The document does note that  there is the                                                               
possibility  that   they  may  have  overlooked   other  existing                                                               
facilities.   He  told the  committee that  information regarding                                                               
categorizing the facilities that  offer only housing versus those                                                               
that offer  housing and additional  services for the  homeless is                                                               
8:51:51 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER recalled  that the  Salvation Army  has a                                                               
facility  that offers  housing for  fathers  and children,  which                                                               
isn't on the list.                                                                                                              
MR.  HARVEY  offered  to  research that  facility.    In  further                                                               
response to Representative Gardner,  Mr. Harvey acknowledged that                                                               
facilities  could face  erratic  funding if  there aren't  repeat                                                               
donors to  these organizations,  which could  result in  holes in                                                               
their budget  for which  they approach  the legislature  to fill.                                                               
The  proposed   committee  substitute  incorporates   changes  to                                                               
address the aforementioned.                                                                                                     
8:54:43 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  moved to  adopt  CSHB  364, Version  27-                                                               
LS1425\I, Nauman, 3/27/12, as the  working document.  There being                                                               
no objection, Version I was before the committee.                                                                               
8:54:58 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. HARVEY offered  to review the changes  encompassed in Version                                                               
I.   He  related  that  he heard  from  several  of the  shelters                                                               
regarding the requirement for  individual organizations to report                                                               
to the state  the donations received, the amount, and  the use of                                                               
it.  There was concern with  regard to the paperwork involved and                                                               
the  ability  to  track the  donations,  particularly  for  small                                                               
organizations  that receive  small dollar  donations.   There was                                                               
also concern with regard to  how this would impact state agencies                                                               
involved   with   providing    operational   dollars   to   these                                                               
organizations,  specifically  there   was  concern  that  reports                                                               
indicating  a certain  amount of  incoming  dollars could  impact                                                               
what the  organization annually  expects from  the state.   Those                                                               
concerns  were addressed  by deleting  the reporting  requirement                                                               
and on page 2, line 10, inserting paragraph (d), as follows:                                                                    
     (d) The commissioner shall, by  January 1 of each year,                                                                    
     provide  to the  legislature  a list  of recipients  of                                                                    
     contributions,  the   total  amount   of  contributions                                                                    
     reported, and the total amount  of credit claimed under                                                                    
     this section during the previous calendar year.                                                                            
8:58:24 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MUNOZ clarified  that in  HB 364  the organization  had to                                                               
report to the legislature, but  the change encompassed in Version                                                               
I requires  the commissioner of  DOR to  provide a report  to the                                                               
legislature regarding  those organizations that had  utilized the                                                               
tax credit.                                                                                                                     
MR. HARVEY replied yes, adding  that it's still important for the                                                               
legislature to know how this  tax credit is being implemented and                                                               
how  effective  it  is.    He reminded  the  committee  that  the                                                               
legislation includes a sunset provision.   He then opined that he                                                               
doesn't  believe  the  information   would  be  used  against  an                                                               
organization requesting grants and state funding.                                                                               
8:59:49 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER  related that  his district and  region are                                                               
supportive  of this  legislation.   Upon  review of  the list  of                                                               
organizations, it seems to offer good regional balance.                                                                         
9:00:51 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  maintained   concern  regarding  whether                                                               
these  funds   [receiving  the  tax  credit]   would  potentially                                                               
supplant  state funds  and create  a lack  of sustainability  for                                                               
these organizations.                                                                                                            
9:01:52 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. HARVEY, returning to his review  of the changes in Version I,                                                               
directed  attention to  page  2,  line 3,  subsection  (c).   The                                                               
impetus for subsection (c) was  from Representative Austerman who                                                               
expressed  the  desire for  organizations  that  want to  make  a                                                               
donation  to  be  able to  obtain  a  predetermination  regarding                                                               
whether their donation would receive the tax credit.                                                                            
9:03:25 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  expressed concern  that there is  no plan                                                               
to have DOR  confirm that an agency actually  received a donation                                                               
for which the taxpayer filed  a claim.  Therefore, she questioned                                                               
whether there should  be a confirmation process  to confirm those                                                               
reported as receiving the donation actually did receive it.                                                                     
MR. HARVEY deferred to DOR.                                                                                                     
9:04:58 AM                                                                                                                    
JOHANNA  BALES,  Deputy  Director, Tax  Division,  Department  of                                                               
Revenue, explained  that this proposed  tax credit would  work as                                                               
the existing tax credits.   Therefore, when the division performs                                                               
its  audit, it  would  confirm that  the  recipient received  the                                                               
funds.   With  new tax  credits,  the division  often performs  a                                                               
compliance project, which reviews  every taxpayer who claimed the                                                               
tax credit  and reaches out  to the recipients to  ensure receipt                                                               
of the funds.  The  aforementioned are common processes for which                                                               
the division doesn't need additional statutory authority.                                                                       
9:06:08 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  posed a scenario in  which a contribution                                                               
is for a  building fund.  She asked if  that information would be                                                               
easily  included in  the report  so that  having a  building fund                                                               
with  assets in  it  wouldn't adversely  impact the  organization                                                               
when it approached the legislature for operating funds.                                                                         
MS. BALES answered  that more than likely,  the division wouldn't                                                               
know specifically  for what  the funds were  used.   The division                                                               
would merely  track the contribution  to ensure that  a qualified                                                               
organization  received it.   Therefore,  at the  time the  agency                                                               
requests  additional funds,  it  would be  up to  it  to let  the                                                               
legislature know  how the  funds were used.   The  division would                                                               
provide  the data  to confirm  that  the agency  did receive  the                                                               
9:07:30 AM                                                                                                                    
DAN  AUSTIN, General  Manager,  St. Vincent  de  Paul Society  of                                                               
Juneau,  began  by  highlighting  that Juneau  is  Alaska's  most                                                               
homeless city.  On a  per capita basis, Alaska has one-and-a-half                                                               
times  the  homeless  rate  in  Anchorage,  four  times  that  of                                                               
Fairbanks, and  three times that  of Los Angeles County  to which                                                               
some refer to as the homeless  capital of America.  Over the last                                                               
two  decades, homelessness  has grown  throughout the  nation but                                                               
the  resources to  operate  shelters  have not  kept  pace.   For                                                               
instance,  after more  than  10 years  of  operating a  childcare                                                               
facility  for low  income families  St.  Vincent de  Paul had  to                                                               
close it  last year because it  had to decide whether  to utilize                                                               
its  resources  for maintenance  and  operation  of its  homeless                                                               
facility  or to  subsidize its  childcare  facility.   On top  of                                                               
that, just  last month  heating oil increased  to over  $4.00 per                                                               
gallon.   Furthermore,  St. Vincent  de Paul  had to  suspend the                                                               
purchase  of food  vouchers.   Mr.  Austin  emphasized that  it's                                                               
important to know that many shelters  such as St. Vincent de Paul                                                               
provide  housing as  well  as  other services  to  those who  are                                                               
homeless and  poor, including  food vouchers,  travel assistance,                                                               
medical assistance, and emergency family  aid.  Therefore, as the                                                               
operating expense  of the shelter  and the demand on  the shelter                                                               
increase,  something  has  to  be   eliminated.    Normally,  the                                                               
discretionary  services that  help keep  the safety  net together                                                               
for the  poor in the  state is the first  to be eliminated.   Mr.                                                               
Austin informed  the committee that  St. Vincent de  Paul doesn't                                                               
rely  on state  and federal  grants for  the shelter's  operation                                                               
rather  it relies  on  the thrift  store  revenues, which  supply                                                               
about 51 percent of the  actual operating expense of the shelter,                                                               
and  the   other  49  percent   is  provided  by   the  residents                                                               
themselves.  In conclusion,  Mr.  Austin urged  the committee  to                                                               
move  HB 366  forward  so  that shelters  in  Alaska can  sustain                                                               
operations while working on the critical issue of homelessness.                                                                 
9:11:30 AM                                                                                                                    
LAUREN RICE,  Director, Public  Advocacy, Covenant  House Alaska,                                                               
explained that Covenant  House is a shelter for  homeless and at-                                                               
risk youth  in Anchorage.   Although the  facility is  located in                                                               
Anchorage,  it  truly  serves  the  entire  state.    Last  year,                                                               
Covenant  House  Alaska served  over  4,000  individual youth  of                                                               
which about  48 percent  of the youth  served are  Alaska Native.                                                               
Covenant House  Alaska provides a spectrum  of services including                                                               
emergency services as the facility is  open all day every day and                                                               
programs through which youth can  stay with Covenant House for up                                                               
to a  year-and-a-half and live  in transitional housing  and gain                                                               
life skills.   Covenant House Alaska offers  everything from food                                                               
and showers to long-term educational  support.  She characterized                                                               
Covenant House Alaska  as almost serving as the  family for these                                                               
youth well  into their late teens  and early twenties.   Ms. Rice                                                               
related  support for  HB 364  and the  intent behind  it; private                                                               
investment in  the nonprofit community  is essential not  only so                                                               
that nonprofits can  provide services but also for  the health of                                                               
the entire community.  The  majority of the Covenant House Alaska                                                               
budget consists  of private funds and  its work is to  share with                                                               
individual corporations  and businesses in the  community stories                                                               
of the  youth and the  mission of  Covenant House Alaska  to meet                                                               
the needs of the youth.   The aforementioned is vital to Covenant                                                               
House  Alaska's   operating  budget  and  to   its  advocacy  and                                                               
communication efforts because the  youth at Covenant House Alaska                                                               
are some  of the  most invisible  youth in  the state.   Homeless                                                               
youth become invisible  as a means of survival, she  stated.  The                                                               
corporate employees  to which Covenant  House Alaska  reaches out                                                               
become mentors,  instructors of life  skills classes  and provide                                                               
service  work and  special events.   The  benefits youth  receive                                                               
from  corporate volunteers  go well  beyond  the monetary  amount                                                               
invested.  This legislation incentivizes  the efforts of Covenant                                                               
House Alaska even more as  it provides an incentive for companies                                                               
to  learn  and  invest  in nonprofits  serving  their  neighbors.                                                               
Furthermore,  HB  364  facilitates private  investment  in  human                                                               
services  from which  all  involved parties  benefit.   Ms.  Rice                                                               
noted  her  appreciation  for  the  changes in  Version  I.    In                                                               
conclusion,  Ms.  Rice  stressed  that  Covenant  House  Alaska's                                                               
support  of  HB  364  is to  encourage  and  incentivize  private                                                               
investment in nonprofits,  not to diminish or  impact the state's                                                               
role in caring  for the state's most vulnerable  population.  She                                                               
related  her view  that  HB  364 is  a  way  to increase  private                                                               
investment  and  community  support of  Covenant  House  Alaska's                                                               
work, not replace state funding or grants.                                                                                      
9:15:15 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER asked  then if  Ms. Rice  has no  concern                                                               
that corporate donations might supplant state funding.                                                                          
MS. RICE answered that wouldn't say  that she has no fear of that                                                               
and  acknowledged  that  tax  incentives   and  tax  breaks  have                                                               
replaced  some  federal funding.    However,  nothing in  HB  364                                                               
indicates to Covenant  House Alaska that the  aforementioned is a                                                               
process the  state will go  through.  This legislation  is viewed                                                               
as another  tool in  the tool  box.   If organizations  find that                                                               
[the  tax  credit]  impacts  gaining   state  support  for  their                                                               
services, they could choose not  to participate.  Ms. Rice opined                                                               
that  the  onus  is  on  the organization  to  do  the  strategic                                                               
planning and maximize resources  and services provided when there                                                               
is extra  revenue while not  putting into place systems  that are                                                               
unsustainable.   Organizations  such  as  Covenant House  Alaska,                                                               
which has been providing services for  over 20 years, that have a                                                               
long  history of  building  sustainable  budgets understand  that                                                               
every year  they have  to build their  operating budget  and they                                                               
are prepared to make responsible decisions.                                                                                     
9:17:18 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  inquired as to the  purpose for including                                                               
the requirement  that DOR provide  a list of  donation recipients                                                               
to  the  legislature  if  it's not  to  possibly  supplant  state                                                               
MR.  HARVEY related  that he  worked with  DOR on  that language.                                                               
He further related that the  success of this program depends upon                                                               
donations and what kind of tax  credit is acted upon.  The annual                                                               
report to the  legislature was felt to be  beneficial and provide                                                               
insight into how the program develops.                                                                                          
9:18:47 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MUNOZ asked whether this  requirement is similar to that of                                                               
the education tax credit and other tax credit programs.                                                                         
MR.  BALES  informed  the  committee that  in  other  tax  credit                                                               
programs DOR provides the aggregate  number of contributions, not                                                               
a list of who receives the contribution.                                                                                        
CHAIR MUNOZ asked then if Ms.  Bales believed it would be best to                                                               
make the  language consistent with  what is done with  other [tax                                                               
credit programs].                                                                                                               
MS. BALES responded  that it would depend  upon the legislature's                                                               
intent  in terms  of analyzing  this  credit.   She recalled  the                                                               
hearings  on the  film credit,  during which  she understood  the                                                               
legislature wanted  to know the  recipients of the tax  credit in                                                               
order to determine whether the tax  credit is working.  Ms. Bales                                                               
said she  wasn't sure the  list of  recipients of the  tax credit                                                               
would really  tell the legislature [whether  it's working] rather                                                               
it provides  knowledge as  to how  many contributions  were made.                                                               
Therefore,  she  opined  that  it's  up  to  the  legislature  to                                                               
9:20:16 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MUNOZ announced  that she is amenable to  a language change                                                               
regarding the list.                                                                                                             
9:20:33 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER moved Amendment 1, as follows:                                                                           
     Page 2, line 11,                                                                                                           
          Delete "a list of recipients of contributions,"                                                                       
9:21:06 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  objected, and added that  the legislation                                                               
proposes  some  generous  incentives.   Therefore,  it  might  be                                                               
useful to  know who  is receiving  the [tax  credit].   He opined                                                               
that who is receiving the benefits  might be useful for the state                                                               
to know how effective the organizations are.                                                                                    
9:21:42 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  said she could  see real value  in knowing                                                               
the categories  of totals there  are.  However,  listing specific                                                               
names is problematic, she indicated.   She asked whether there is                                                               
an easy way to provide an  aggregate of different groups, such as                                                               
those  dealing  with  homelessness, substance  abuse,  and  child                                                               
9:23:08 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MUNOZ  pointed out that  the legislation already  speaks to                                                               
emergency shelters  for the homeless  and facilities  for alcohol                                                               
and drug detoxification.  She  asked whether it would be possible                                                               
to provide aggregate totals in those two broad categories.                                                                      
MS. BALES answered that the division  could do that, but asked if                                                               
the committee is  interested in the size or other  details of the                                                               
CHAIR MUNOZ asked whether the  aforementioned can be accomplished                                                               
with Amendment 1.                                                                                                               
MS. BALES  said the division  would need more  specific language,                                                               
such as  "and the types  of facilities".   She related  that when                                                               
the  division writes  regulations it  listens to  the appropriate                                                               
legislative meetings to determine the intent.                                                                                   
9:25:05 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER withdrew Amendment 1.                                                                                    
9:25:19 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER moved Conceptual  Amendment 2, which would                                                               
insert  language requiring  a list  of  total [contributions]  by                                                               
category  of recipients.   Representative  Gardner specified  the                                                               
language to  be inserted  [in place  of the  language on  page 2,                                                               
line  11, "a  list of  recipients of  contributions,"] would  be:                                                               
"the  amount  of  the contributions  subtotaled  by  category  of                                                               
recipient for"  and the  categories would  match those  listed on                                                               
page 1, lines 11-13 of Version I.                                                                                               
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 2 adopted.                                                                       
9:27:25 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  asked whether  it would be  the intention                                                               
of DOR  to make the  list of  eligible entities available  on its                                                               
MS.  BALES answered  that  DOR would  do that.    Because of  the                                                               
501(c)(3)  requirement  the IRS  has  a  list  of those  and  the                                                               
division would  work with  the sponsor  and the  organizations in                                                               
the state to compile such a list.                                                                                               
9:28:09 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MUNOZ  recalled  that  there  was  an  Anchorage  facility                                                               
missing from the  list of [nonprofit emergency  shelters and drug                                                               
and alcohol detoxification facilities  in Alaska].  She expressed                                                               
the  need  to  include  any  organizations  that  may  have  been                                                               
inadvertently missed.                                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER informed the  committee that the facility,                                                               
the McKinnell House in Anchorage, is actually listed.                                                                           
MS. BALES  told the committee  that the statutory  language would                                                               
trump the  list, and therefore  those entities that  are properly                                                               
designated would be on the list.                                                                                                
9:29:22 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER maintained  his belief  that it  would be                                                               
beneficial  for  the  state to  have  more  specific  information                                                               
regarding who is using the tax  credits and how they are applied.                                                               
Therefore, he expressed interest  in obtaining a clear definition                                                               
of the  various types of  facilities so that as  much information                                                               
as  possible  could  be  obtained   in  order  to  determine  how                                                               
effective the tax credit program is.   He also expressed the need                                                               
to  know  which  entities  would  fall under  HB  364  and  which                                                               
wouldn't  because  there  is a  list  from  Legislative  Research                                                               
Services and  another list  of homeless  shelters and  they don't                                                               
necessarily overlap.   For example,  Beans Cafe and  Alley Chalet                                                               
aren't on the Legislative Research Services list.                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  clarified that those entities  not on the                                                               
Legislative Research Services list aren't shelters.                                                                             
9:31:04 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MUNOZ  asked  if  Ms. Bales  could  further  refine  those                                                               
categories as the legislation moves forward.                                                                                    
MS. BALES agreed to do so.                                                                                                      
9:31:30 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  expressed concern with regard  to lists of                                                               
taxpayers who donate as there would seem to be privacy issues.                                                                  
CHAIR  MUNOZ clarified  that it  would  be an  aggregate list  by                                                               
broad  category of  recipients. Therefore,  the individual  donor                                                               
information wouldn't be reported.                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA acknowledged  that, but expressed suspicion                                                               
that   [the  individual   donor  information]   may  be   linked.                                                               
Moreover, she  didn't want people  to unknowingly  jeopardize [an                                                               
entity]  and expressed  concern  with donations  taking over  the                                                               
role of state funding.                                                                                                          
CHAIR MUNOZ  related her  understanding that  this tax  credit is                                                               
for companies  that make  donations and  receive a  corporate tax                                                               
credit or other tax credit per the IRS code.                                                                                    
MS.  BALES   confirmed  Chair  Munoz's  understanding   and  then                                                               
directed  attention to  the language  on  page 2,  line 1,  which                                                               
specifies that  the amount  of the  credit is  50 percent  of the                                                               
contribution up to  $200,000.  Therefore, for  a corporation that                                                               
makes  a   $400,000  donation,  $200,000   will  come   from  the                                                               
corporation and  $200,000 from state's  general fund in  the form                                                               
of  a  tax  credit.    The  tax credit  proposed  in  HB  364  is                                                               
structured such  that for every  dollar a donor gives,  the state                                                               
CHAIR MUNOZ related her understanding  that this doesn't refer to                                                               
small  individual   donations  rather  it  refers   to  corporate                                                               
MS. BALES  agreed, and  added that  the only  tax type  for which                                                               
this contribution  can be taken  against is the  corporate income                                                               
9:36:31 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  offered his understanding that  there are                                                               
26 different pieces  of tax credit legislation.   The legislature                                                               
should  be concerned  with  regard to  the  cumulative impact  of                                                               
those tax credits  to the state treasury even though  much of the                                                               
information  indicates   the  cost  to  the   state  treasury  is                                                               
indeterminate.  While this is a  generous credit and it's good to                                                               
review creative  efforts to support  worthy causes, there  has to                                                               
be concern with regard to  the possibility of supplanting federal                                                               
funds  and  the  need  for  more  state  funds  later  for  these                                                               
9:37:31 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  related her  agreement, but  hesitated to                                                               
draw  the   line  for   the  most   indigent  and   needy  group.                                                               
Furthermore,  the  cumulative  issue  is for  the  House  Finance                                                               
Committee to address.                                                                                                           
9:38:11 AM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER moved  to  report CSHB  364, Version  27-                                                               
LS1425\I,  Nauman, 3/27/12,  as  amended, out  of committee  with                                                               
individual  recommendations and  the  accompanying fiscal  notes.                                                               
There being  no objection,  CSHB 364(CRA)  was reported  from the                                                               
House Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                        
9:38:41 AM                                                                                                                    
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting was                                                                   
adjourned at 9:38 a.m.                                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB364 Sponsor Statement.pdf HCRA 3/29/2012 8:00:00 AM
HB 364
CSHB364 version I.pdf HCRA 3/29/2012 8:00:00 AM
HB 364
HB364-DOR-TAX-03-16-12.pdf HCRA 3/29/2012 8:00:00 AM
HB 364
HB364 Leg Research Homeless Stats.pdf HCRA 3/29/2012 8:00:00 AM
HB 364