Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/11/1993 01:00 PM House CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
              HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS                             
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 11, 1993                                        
                            1:00 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman                                       
  Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman                                  
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative Cynthia Toohey                                                
  Representative Ed Willis                                                     
  Representative Bill Williams                                                 
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  HB 166:   "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency                         
            reporting systems; and providing for an effective                  
            CSHB 166 (CRA) PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO                     
            PASS RECOMMENDATION                                                
  *HB 180:  "An Act relating to the residential housing                        
            inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing                      
            Finance Corporation."                                              
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE                                        
  (* first public hearing)                                                     
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 112                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Phone:  465-4843                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 166                                  
  Phillip Reeves, Deputy Attorney                                              
  Kenai Peninsula Borough                                                      
  144 N. Binkley                                                               
  Soldotna, AK  99669                                                          
  Phone: 262-8607                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Proposed amendments to CSHB 166                          
  Rocky Ansell, Emergency Medical Services                                     
  Glennallen Fire Department                                                   
  P.O. Box 217                                                                 
  Copper Center, AK  99573                                                     
  Phone: 822-3671                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166                                       
  John George                                                                  
  Alaska State Fire Fighters Association                                       
  Alaska State Fire Chiefs Association                                         
  9515 Moraine Way                                                             
  Juneau, AK  99801                                                            
  Phone: 789-0172                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested amendment to CSHB 166                          
  Larry Fanning, Fire Chief                                                    
  City and Borough of Juneau                                                   
  820 Glacier Avenue                                                           
  Juneau, AK  99801                                                            
  Phone: 586-5322                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166                                       
  Bob Evans, Lobbyist                                                          
  Municipality of Anchorage                                                    
  P.O. Box 22184                                                               
  Juneau, AK  99802                                                            
  Phone: 364-3360                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166                                       
  David Harding, Legislative Aide                                              
    to Representative Eileen Maclean                                           
  State Capitol, Room 507                                                      
  Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                       
  Phone: 465-4833                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Gave an overview of HB 180                               
  Steve Wisdom                                                                 
  Kenai Peninsula Builders Association                                         
  P.O. Box 4184                                                                
  Homer, AK  99603                                                             
  Phone: 235-5266                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 180                                           
  Ron Anderson, ICBO Inspector                                                 
  Unalaska, AK                                                                 
  Phone: 581-1373                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Jim McCormack, Vice President                                                
  National Bank of Alaska                                                      
  P.O. Box 100600                                                              
  Anchorage, AK  99510-0600                                                    
  Phone: 276-1132                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Tony Doyle                                                                   
  State Home Builders Association                                              
  7984 Spur Hwy.                                                               
  Kenai, AK 99611                                                              
  Phone: 283-3886                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to HB 180                                        
  Jim Stevens, Deputy Director                                                 
  North Slope Borough Housing Department                                       
  P.O. Box 69                                                                  
  Barrow, AK  99723                                                            
  Phone: 852-0290                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Charlie Weiss                                                                
  Outsiders Construction                                                       
  P.O. Box 415                                                                 
  Nome, AK  99762                                                              
  Phone: 443-5155                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Jim Stroer, President                                                        
  Kenai Peninsula Builders Association                                         
  335 Dolchok                                                                  
  Soldotna, AK  99611                                                          
  Phone: 283-5661                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 180                                           
  Myron McCumber                                                               
  McCumber Construction                                                        
  Box 1388                                                                     
  Barrow, AK  99723                                                            
  Phone: 852-6588                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Marvin Hanebuth                                                              
  Hanebuth Builders                                                            
  Box 1701                                                                     
  Nome, AK  99762                                                              
  Phone: 443-5360                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Michael Danner                                                               
  Lone Rock Construction                                                       
  Box 832                                                                      
  Barrow, AK  99723                                                            
  Phone: 852-6100                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Jim Stimpfle, Realtor                                                        
  New Frontier Realty                                                          
  Box 729                                                                      
  Nome, AK  99762                                                              
  Phone: 443-2002                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Robert Brean, Director                                                       
  Rural Housing Loan Program                                                   
  Alaska Housing Finance Corporation                                           
  520 E. 34th                                                                  
  Anchorage, AK  99503                                                         
  Phone: 561-1900                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Robin Harrison, Vice President                                               
  National Bank of Alaska, Barrow Branch                                       
  P.O. Box 209                                                                 
  Barrow, AK  99723                                                            
  Phone: 852-6200                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Mitch Erickson, Assistant Vice President and Branch Manager                  
  National Bank of Alaska                                                      
  Box 1469                                                                     
  Nome, AK  99762                                                              
  Phone: 443-2223                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  Rudy Rudisel, Architect                                                      
  P.O. Box 1938                                                                
  Nome, AK  99762                                                              
  Phone: 443-2979                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180                                         
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB 166                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS                                           
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):  REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE                                         
  TITLE: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency reporting                  
  systems; and providing for an effective date."                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/18/93       381    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/18/93       381    (H)   CRA, FINANCE                                     
  03/09/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  03/11/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/11/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  BILL:  HB 180                                                                
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):  REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN                                       
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the residential housing                           
  inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing Finance                        
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/25/93       455    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/25/93       455    (H)   CRA, LABOR & COMMERCE                            
  03/11/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 93-12, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:10                   
  p.m.  He noted Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Williams,                      
  Sanders, Davies and Willis were present.                                     
  HB 166:  ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS                                                
  Number 050                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES addressed the second committee                    
  substitute (CS) to HB 166 produced in subcommittee.  He                      
  testified, in part, "What I want to try to do is solve some                  
  minor problems that I have... and I'm offering these in the                  
  spirit of trying to make some minor improvements that I                      
  think will help the bill along.  ...One is just a minor one:                 
  There was some language in there that said the                               
  municipalities could accomplish this in instituting this                     
  enhanced 911 system by resolution or by ordinance.  ...It                    
  was my feeling it would be better to do this by ordinance...                 
  The committee substitute really gets rid of the word                         
  'resolution' in there and also changes the construct of the                  
  sentence so that the three things a municipality is being                    
  authorized to do here, it's clear that each one of those                     
  three things is done by ordinance.                                           
  Number 142                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES continued, "The second one...is a                      
  question of what is the area of service...  My concern that                  
  I raised at the last committee meeting is we might get into                  
  a situation where we had multiple jurisdictions involved...                  
  If we went back to the original bill (HB 166), before the                    
  committee substitute, there was language in there that                       
  talked about how to handle (this), so basically all I've                     
  done is taken that language from the original bill and put                   
  it back in here...  It says that the bottom line power to                    
  set the charges rests with the individual communities.  My                   
  basic concern here is that we don't get into a situation of                  
  sort of taxation without representation...  However under                    
  Title 29, municipalities may join together to exercise                       
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "The last one is simply this                    
  question of upper limit of what can be charged.  I asked a                   
  number of people why we were making a distinction between                    
  Anchorage, effectively, and the rest of the state...nobody                   
  gave me an answer that suggested there was any particular                    
  reason to do that.  So I simply suggested in this committee                  
  substitute that we should get rid of all that language that                  
  talks about 100,000 people and simply set the maximum at 75                  
  cents.  Recognizing that...every community, every                            
  municipality sets its own upper limit."                                      
  Number 201                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 166, reminded                  
  the committee that HB 166 was introduced concurrently in the                 
  Senate and said, "If we change it substantially then we've                   
  got a problem:  Conference Committee."                                       
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked where the Senate version was                           
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE did not know.  He added, "I have no                     
  problem with the idea of an ordinance rather than a                          
  resolution... Regarding, the 75 cents charge, I think                        
  reality says that when we say, 'no more than 75 cents,' the                  
  charge will be 75 cents.  The 50 cents limit was supported                   
  by the Anchorage municipality.  There is some indication                     
  that Anchorage may not want to support a greater charge than                 
  that...  I'm not sure that the change to 75 cents total                      
  something that will be supportable..."                                       
  Number 267                                                                   
  testified via teleconference from Soldotna.  He said, "We                    
  don't have any problem with changing things from resolution                  
  or ordinance to ordinance.  However, the changes that are                    
  proposed for the next section would apparently cause us to                   
  have to totally restructure 911 as we operate it at this                     
  time.  What we do is, about 6 or 8 years ago each of the                     
  cities relinquished their 911 authority to the borough so                    
  that the Kenai Borough provides 911 on an area-wide                          
  basis...the cities themselves do not have direct input on                    
  the operation and do not have the financial involvement in                   
  the operation."                                                              
  MR. REEVES continued, "...We've reached an agreement like a                  
  contract, but our agreement is that the borough will do it                   
  itself, so we're not a separate legal entity.  And we're                     
  certainly concerned that each of the municipalities retains                  
  the power to set and amend the surcharge when the                            
  municipalities aren't involved in the operation... So I                      
  guess what we'd suggest...first of all instead of saying 'a                  
  separate legal entity', you say 'a unified or cooperative                    
  enhanced 911 system'..."  He then gave a detailed                            
  explanation of the changes he'd like to see made to CSHB
  MR. REEVES then said further, "As for the 75 cents versus 50                 
  cents, I can tell you the history of that change.                            
  Originally it was 50 cents only on the Senate side for SB
  97.  The municipality of Anchorage submitted 50 cents and, I                 
  believe, had indicated that they would not support the bill                  
  if it allowed for more than 50 cents.  Basically, the                        
  equipment and the system that we have to provide for 40,000                  
  people is identical to the system that Anchorage provides to                 
  its population so its the same cost except that we're a                      
  large geographic area...  It actually costs us more to                       
  provide the same 911 system that Anchorage provides.  So                     
  we're real concerned about having the 75 cents go back down                  
  to 50 cents for us."                                                         
  Number 343                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'm a little bit puzzled as to                  
  why this language gives rise to those concerns;" and                         
  addressed the concerns in detail.  He said, "The fundamental                 
  concern that I have is that we don't get into a situation                    
  where one municipality effectively enacts a tax or surcharge                 
  on another municipality.  Having said that, under Title 29,                  
  any municipality may enter into a contract with another                      
  municipality which effectively delegates their authority to                  
  set that particular surcharge."                                              
  Number 364                                                                   
  MR. REEVES said, "My concern is that there's express                         
  language here that says the municipalities retain the power                  
  to set and amend the 911 surcharge...  I think we already                    
  have the authority that this amendment would provide.  When                  
  I look at this amendment, the only thing that I really see                   
  that stands out is that it says the municipalities, even if                  
  they contract cooperatively, will retain the power to set                    
  and amend the 911 surcharge...  I can certainly see a                        
  possibility that one of the cities would come back now and                   
  say, well, we have the power to set the surcharge."                          
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "My concern is that the way this                 
  bill (HB 166) was originally written it seemed that it was                   
  possible for one municipality without the consent of another                 
  to set this rate..."                                                         
  MR. REEVES said, "I haven't read this bill (HB 166) to see                   
  whether or not this alters those facts, but under Title 29,                  
  I think the authority of a municipality is limited to its                    
  jurisdiction unless it meets the specific extraterritorial                   
  Number 416                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "That was specifically my                        
  concern, that this bill (HB 166) would give the                              
  municipalities that legal authority to extend their power                    
  outside their boundaries for this purpose."                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "Would it address your concerns                  
  if this (line 29 of the first CSHB 166) were to read 'the                    
  municipalities are jointly to set and amend the 911                          
  MR. REEVES said, "I just got this this morning and didn't                    
  really have a chance to think about both sides...  I think                   
  at this point I still have a concern unless it clearly                       
  somehow states that where some municipalities have given up                  
  their authority and transferred the authority to another                     
  municipality, that the municipality that now has the                         
  authority is the sole interest involved in setting those                     
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to construct an amendment to                   
  address Mr. Reeves concerns.                                                 
  Number 461                                                                   
  DEPARTMENT, testified via teleconference from Glennallen.                    
  He said, "You have my support on this bill (CSHB 166).  I do                 
  have one question though, I see most of the language                         
  referring to municipalities and I wonder if there's going to                 
  be any mechanism for the unorganized areas...to take a part                  
  in this enhanced 911 project."                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "At the present time, the very lack of                 
  organization is, in fact, the answer to the question.  There                 
  is no legal entity to channel the funds back through from                    
  the utility, as I understand it."                                            
  Number 477                                                                   
  MR. ANSELL described his situation, "Currently, the Copper                   
  Valley telephone cooperative in the area of the Copper River                 
  Basin provides 911 service, and to me it looks like it                       
  should be fairly simple to develop a mechanism for that                      
  utility to make direct payment...for that surcharge if                       
  they're allowed to collect these monies from their                           
  individual customers."                                                       
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked if Copper Valley extended into Valdez.                 
  MR. ANSELL replied, "Yes."                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Valdez could be the municipality                      
  serving the entire Copper River Valley telephone geographic                  
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "Under Title 29, a municipality                 
  may exercise powers extraterritorially."                                     
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY added, "At their request."                     
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "Absolutely."                                    
  Number 511                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OFFERED an AMENDMENT to Mr. Reeves.                    
  MR. REEVES tentatively concurred.                                            
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to "get together and work out                  
  some language that would be mutually acceptable".                            
  ALASKA STATE FIRE CHIEFS ASSOCIATION, testified, "We support                 
  the concept of enhanced 911.  We believe it's important that                 
  we have a funding mechanism and this bill (HB 166) does                      
  it..."  He suggested that "and other essential communication                 
  equipment required by the system" be added throughout the                    
  versions of CSHB 166.                                                        
  Number 569                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I think it's redundant... That                  
  extension that you have in there is effectively incorporated                 
  MR. GEORGE said, "If that's clear... if that's legislative                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES reiterated the definition sought by                    
  Mr. George was already incorporated in CSHB 166.                             
  Number 583                                                                   
  testified briefly in favor of CSHB 166.                                      
  BOB EVANS, LOBBYIST, MUNICIPALITY OF ANCHORAGE, testified in                 
  favor of CSHB 166, saying, "Mayor Fink has indicated support                 
  for the 50 cent surcharge."                                                  
  Number 600                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked why Mayor Fink did not support                   
  the 75 cents surcharge.                                                      
  MR. EVANS did not know.                                                      
  Number 609                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE talked about limiting the surcharge.                    
  He asked Mr. Evans if he thought Anchorage would charge less                 
  than the surcharge limit or if whatever the limit was set at                 
  would "become the rate" charged.                                             
  MR. EVANS said, "From the mayor's perspective, I think that                  
  he believes the pressure will go to whatever the limit is."                  
  Number 625                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG called an at ease at 1:47 p.m.                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG reconvened the meeting at 1:52.  He pointed                  
  out the committee had two different committee substitutes to                 
  HB 166 before them.                                                          
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I've just received information                   
  that the City of Fairbanks is this evening going to pass a                   
  resolution favoring my original committee substitute plus                    
  the concerns expressed by Anchorage and Kenai, I would MOVE                  
  my original committee substitute, I think that would                         
  accomplish what I want to accomplish more quickly."                          
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG acknowledged the MOTION to ADOPT                             
  Representative Bunde's CSHB 166.                                             
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "If I understand                    
  correctly, the concern is simply the question of the 75                      
  cents.  If that's the only concern, the simplest way would                   
  be to adopt the version that I suggested and then amend that                 
  back to put the 50 cent language back in there.                              
  Number 640                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE retorted, "As I had indicated, there is                 
  a large portion of the second committee substitute that                      
  addresses some specific Fairbanks concerns and now that I                    
  hear that they're going to endorse my original version, I                    
  suggest we just go ahead with that, rather than complicate                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Possibly it boils down to a pride of                  
  authorship question."                                                        
  Number 663                                                                   
  A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Davies and                      
  Willis voted AGAINST the adoption of Representative Bunde's                  
  committee substitute.  Representatives Bunde, Sanders,                       
  Toohey, Williams and Olberg voted FOR the adoption of                        
  Representative Bunde's committee substitute.                                 
  Number 667                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE denied that a "pride of authorship"                     
  existed.  "I feel that this is going to more cleanly address                 
  the problem of enhanced 911," he said.  Representative Bunde                 
  then MOVED that CSHB 166 be moved out of committee with                      
  individual recommendations.                                                  
  Number 684                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "It's always the                    
  case, however, in this stage of the legislation, amendments                  
  are made.  If they weren't, there would be no point in us                    
  hearing these things...  With respect to resolutions that                    
  are made:  People pass those resolutions at the municipal                    
  level knowing that things are going to get changed                           
  TAPE 93-12, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES PROPOSED an AMENDMENT saying, "I would                 
  like to SUBSTITUTE the language that's in my version, the                    
  second version of the committee substitute.  That would be                   
  the language on page three of that draft that comes from                     
  line 14 down through line 22 and would REPLACE the language                  
  that's in the one that's before us right now on page three,                  
  line 14 through 20."                                                         
  Number 025                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he had no objection to the                         
  The AMENDMENT PASSED.                                                        
  Number 047                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'd like to MOVE the second                     
  item which is on that same page three on the second                          
  committee substitute, line 23, on page four, line seven and                  
  SUBSTITUTE in the one that's before us from line 21 through                  
  line five on page four...  All I want to do is to substitute                 
  the language that's here (to) make it more clear...what is                   
  meant by the area and to address the concern that we don't                   
  want to establish a principle in law here that says one                      
  municipality may effectively establish a tax or surcharge on                 
  Number 074                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED saying, "In this case, as I                    
  said, being Fairbanks took a look at this and didn't have a                  
  major objection...  I suggest we go ahead with my original                   
  version (of the CS)."                                                        
  Number 092                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Are there portions of that                     
  amendment that you are willing to keep in?"                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "No."                                             
  The roll was called on AMENDMENT NUMBER TWO to the first                     
  version (Representative Bunde's version) of CSHB 166.                        
  Representatives Davies and Willis voted FOR the amendment.                   
  Representatives Sanders, Williams, Toohey, Bunde and Olberg                  
  voted AGAINST the amendment.  The MOTION FAILED.                             
  Number 119                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED that "we strike the language                     
  that restricts the upper limit to 50 cents and use the                       
  language that makes it consistent 75 cents statewide..."                     
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED.                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the THIRD AMENDMENT proposed                   
  to the first version of CSHB 166.  Representatives Davies                    
  and Willis voted FOR the amendment.  Representatives                         
  Sanders, Williams, Bunde, Toohey and Olberg voted AGAINST                    
  the amendment.  The MOTION FAILED.                                           
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE reminded the committee he had a MOTION                  
  on the floor to pass CSHB 166 out of committee with                          
  individual recommendations.                                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES REMOVED his previous OBJECTION.                        
  The MOTION PASSED to move CSHB 166, as amended, out of                       
  committee with individual recommendations.                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG thanked Representative Davies for his                        
  efforts on CSHB 166 (CRA).                                                   
  Number 170                                                                   
  HB 180:  AHFC HOUSING INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS                                
  MACLEAN, testified reading from Representative MacLean's                     
  sponsor statement.  (A copy of this sponsor statement may be                 
  found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee                  
  Room, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the                     
  second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the                  
  Legislative Reference Library.)                                              
  MR. HARDING added, "The ICBO inspection requirements under                   
  consideration we originally put into law in order to address                 
  the concerns of some builders in the rail-belt area, and the                 
  changes proposed here (in HB 180) would not affect any                       
  builders on the road system.  House Bill 180 would only                      
  adjust the law to address problems that have arisen in rural                 
  loan programs, affecting remote areas of the state."                         
  Number 247                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "I appreciate the streamlining                  
  of this, but why not on a road accessible area?  If it's                     
  good for the rural area, why can't it be good for Copper                     
  Center or Valdez?"                                                           
  MR. HARDING replied, "In some places along the road system I                 
  think it would make a lot of sense.  I think the intent here                 
  is to get at the excessive costs that are associated with                    
  having to fly somewhere to a remote location in order to do                  
  the inspections.  I guess the problem with including parts                   
  of the road system in it, is how you would determine which                   
  parts of the road system would be eligible and which                         
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "My only comment is that an                      
  inspector should be qualified to do everybody - a bank loan                  
  or an Alaska Housing Finance Loan, or anything."                             
  Number 285                                                                   
  testimony  via teleconference from Homer, as submitted to                    
  the committee members.  (A copy of this testimony may be                     
  found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee                  
  Room, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the                     
  second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the                  
  Legislative Reference Library.)  He said, "We cannot support                 
  legislation which would allow inspections by anyone other                    
  than an ICBO certified inspectors" and "The Alaska Housing                   
  Finance Corporation (AHFC) should be given the authority to                  
  deal with isolated problems of residential inspections in                    
  rural areas on a case-by-case basis."                                        
  MR. WISDOM also read similar personal testimony into the                     
  record.  (A copy of this testimony may be found in the House                 
  Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room                  
  110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the                  
  18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference                  
  Number 345                                                                   
  RON ANDERSON, ICBO INSPECTOR, UNALASKA, testified via                        
  teleconference in support of HB 180 saying, "...(Unalaska)                   
  is about 800 air miles southwest of Anchorage...  It would                   
  be about $5,500 inspection to bring an ICBO inspector to                     
  Unalaska for an inspection.  I happen to be an ICBO                          
  inspector and I'm not able to inspect my own work...  I go                   
  along with Mr. Wisdom's philosophy about the importance of                   
  an ICBO inspection.  I also go along wholeheartedly that                     
  each case should be dealt with on a case by case basis.                      
  ...I do have a problem with some of the definitions in the                   
  bill (HB 180)...rural would totally accept everybody in                      
  Southeast Alaska, except for Haines."                                        
  MR. ANDERSON continued,  "I also agree with a journeyman                     
  carpenter conducting inspections.  Who decides what a                        
  journeyman carpenter is?...  Maybe AHFC could come up with a                 
  step-by-step procedure to conduct these inspections.  So if                  
  there was not a qualified individual available, maybe a                      
  licenced electrical administrator or a licensed mechanical                   
  administrator or a licensed structural engineer could take                   
  this list along..."                                                          
  Number 405                                                                   
  testified via teleconference from Anchorage, in support of                   
  HB 180.  He read from the letter which was provided to the                   
  committee.  (A copy of this letter may be found in the House                 
  Community and Regional Affairs Committee, Capitol Room 110,                  
  and after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th                  
  Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference                       
  Library.)  He added, "We believe the home owners of the                      
  rural areas not accessible by road are the most severely                     
  impacted in the current legislation.  Opposition to parts of                 
  this house bill (HB 180) are from persons who do not live in                 
  these areas and do not experience the same difficulties.  In                 
  our conversations with our rural customers, they                             
  overwhelmingly support HB 180 in its entirety..."                            
  Number 470                                                                   
  TONY DOYLE, STATE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION, testified via                   
  teleconference from Soldotna.  He said, "We do want to do                    
  what's necessary to alleviate these expenses that are                        
  astronomical for inspections...case by case basis, how do                    
  you write that into law?  It might be possible to                            
  specifically exempt the Rural Housing Loan Program and draft                 
  it right in its legislation because that was the intent.  It                 
  may be a possibility to exempt communities under a certain                   
  population size.  Another idea might be that we go ahead and                 
  allow non-certified people to make inspections for a period                  
  of one year and give those people in the rural areas a                       
  chance to become certified inspectors.  If someone really                    
  truly is qualified to inspect residential housing, it should                 
  not be that big of a problem to pick up the regular                          
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Why can't we have this type of                 
  inspector all over the state for Alaska housing?"                            
  MR. DOYLE said, "When we initially put this legislation in,                  
  we wanted that bench mark of ICBO inspections simply because                 
  that's the way to have inspectors know what they're doing."                  
  Number 518                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Is there equal parity as far                   
  as pay?  Is the rural person going to have to pay more for                   
  this inspection or less?   If we're keeping them equal then                  
  I have no problem with it and I support the bill (HB 180)."                  
  MR. DOYLE replied, "Outside of municipalities, a home                        
  builder would need to hire an ICBO inspector, and currently                  
  that cost from inspections ranges anywhere between 400 and                   
  600 dollars for a home...for your four inspections."                         
  Number 526                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "How difficult is it and how                     
  expensive is it for someone to become an ICBO certified                      
  inspector?  Is it possible that all communities of any size                  
  could have their own resident inspector?"                                    
  MR. DOYLE said, "Alaska Housing was generous enough last                     
  year to hold two week long seminars preparing people to take                 
  the ICBO test.  It would be my hope that Alaska Housing                      
  would be (again) willing to assist, to help these                            
  communities out in the rural areas..."                                       
  Number 548                                                                   
  DEPARTMENT, testified via teleconference from Barrow, in                     
  support of HB 180.  He said, "I think it provides the                        
  latitude we need up here to hold the inspection costs down"                  
  and added, "...The testing date to become an ICBO certified                  
  inspector is set nationwide, so it's a very inflexible                       
  program, as far as actual dates.  ...In addition to this                     
  there are many standards in ICBO that don't apply to the                     
  Arctic Slope."                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "As you understand the intent of                 
  this bill (HB 180), do you understand it to mean a                           
  contractor could inspect and sign off his own work or... a                   
  second person to do this?"                                                   
  MR. STEVENS replied, "We would still need a third party to                   
  inspect.  As much as I like our contractors, I would still                   
  require someone else to look at their work."                                 
  Number 581                                                                   
  CHARLIE WEISS, OUTSIDERS CONSTRUCTION, NOME, testified                       
  briefly via teleconference from Nome, in favor of HB 180.                    
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "As this expands the pool of                     
  inspectors would you anticipate excluding the cost of                        
  transportation, that the price of inspections would go                       
  MR. WEISS said, "Yes."                                                       
  Number 603                                                                   
  testified via teleconference from Soldotna saying, "I know                   
  that Alaska Housing has merged and that has created a                        
  problem, but I think that should be able to be addressed                     
  through Alaska Housing in that merge."                                       
  Number 615                                                                   
  MYRON MCCUMBER, MCCUMBER CONSTRUCTION, BARROW, testified via                 
  teleconference from Barrow, in support of HB 180 and added,                  
  "We would like to see if this can't be worked out, some kind                 
  of an equitable fee structure, maybe a fee pool,                             
  administered by the state that would allow every builder to                  
  pay the same costs.  So that the Kenai and other home                        
  builders' associations could subsidize our high expenses in                  
  these inspections."                                                          
  Number 625                                                                   
  MARVIN HANEBUTH, HANEBUTH BUILDERS, NOME, testified briefly                  
  via teleconference from Nome, in support of HB 180.                          
  Number 630                                                                   
  MICHAEL DANNER, LONE ROCK CONSTRUCTION, BARROW, testified                    
  via teleconference from Barrow, in support of HB 180 saying,                 
  "I am not against inspections of home...  However, the big                   
  costs related to these inspections seems to be                               
  transportation, and in the same way a state road or a                        
  subsidized ferry system lowers the cost of inspection in                     
  other areas...  I think that something needs to be done to                   
  either, and I support fully HB 180, either we need to do                     
  that or make some other arrangements to pay for the high                     
  cost of transporting and putting these inspectors up while                   
  they're in the area."                                                        
  Number 648                                                                   
  CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, testified via teleconference from Nome                  
  saying, "Basically I support this legislation but I think                    
  the operative word is...'or by another person approved by                    
  the corporation.'  I think that in the rural areas the                       
  bottom line is that these inspections are going to cost                      
  extra for the builder and the buyer.  If there's some way                    
  that AHFC can implement a training program or inform rural                   
  residents about how this program works so that we can                        
  identify either four or five or six other people that may                    
  not be exactly ICBO certified...then this program would be                   
  very workable for us in Nome."                                               
  Number 673                                                                   
  testified from Anchorage via teleconference saying, "On one                  
  hand yes, we do agree with the concept that we want quality                  
  housing across the state, and the way to do that is through                  
  insuring that homes are built to proper code.  On the other                  
  hand, we do recognize the undue burden placed on rural                       
  Alaska and we think HB 180 goes a long way to find that                      
  middle ground and create that flexibility for the rural                      
  borrower that would allow us to do the right thing in rural                  
  Alaska and ensure that quality housing is still there."                      
  TAPE 93-13, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  BANK OF ALASKA testified in favor of HB 180 via                              
  teleconference from Barrow saying, "I do agree with the                      
  inspection process, however, there is one basic problem that                 
  cripples rural housing development, it's the strict criteria                 
  set out to become an inspector.  Because of the ICBO                         
  criteria to become eligible, we have very few inspectors                     
  readily available...and because there are four minimum                       
  visits required...  This winter, we had five construction                    
  loans, five construction projects on hold, loan commitments                  
  hanging, contractors holding back and, of course, the                        
  borrowers bouncing off the walls..."                                         
  Number 052                                                                   
  NATIONAL BANK OF ALASKA, NOME, concurred with Ms. Harrison's                 
  testimony via teleconference from Nome.                                      
  Number 062                                                                   
  RUDY RUDISEL, ARCHITECT, testified via teleconference from                   
  Nome saying, "I'm in favor of this HB (HB 180) especially                    
  expanding the pool of inspectors.  It costs so much to build                 
  buildings down here, and transportation of the ICBO                          
  inspectors adds quite a bit to the cost of the building.                     
  Our material costs are more than double what they are in                     
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked why there were no inspectors                      
  locally in Nome.                                                             
  MR. RUDISEL said, "Nobody has the training right now for                     
  Number 092                                                                   
  MR. ANDERSON of Unalaska confirmed his earlier support for                   
  HB 180 and reminded the committee he would like the AHFC to                  
  have "case-by-case" discretion.  He said, "Look at this                      
  testimony, and realize that you can fly to Seattle and back                  
  cheaper than we can fly to Anchorage one way."                               
  MR. DOYLE testified again saying, "I do support the intent                   
  of (HB) 180 in that we do want to get this problem rectified                 
  for the folks out in these outlying areas.  Alaska Housing                   
  invested about $150,000 having ICBO come up and run testing                  
  last year.  So ICBO has some flexibility built in their                      
  program, and it might be possible...they'd be willing to do                  
  some sort of correspondence work with these outlying areas."                 
  Number 129                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked, "Would it be acceptable... if                  
  we enacted this... for two years?"                                           
  MR. MCCORMACK via teleconference pointed out, "The AHFC                      
  found there's not enough volume in some of these smaller                     
  areas, the rural areas, as far as home building volume, to                   
  really justify having a resident home building industry to                   
  begin with...   The intent of HB 180 is not to exempt any of                 
  the rural areas from inspections... We're not in favor of                    
  Number 176                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I didn't understand that anybody was                  
  talking about exempting particular areas, I think we                         
  understand this is a means by which extremely rural areas                    
  might derive some economic benefits as it relates to                         
  inspections associated with AHFC loans."                                     
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "Obviously, I don't live in these                 
  areas and haven't built in those areas and would like to                     
  allow them as much flexibility as possible, as long as it's                  
  in line with good building practices, safe building                          
  practices.  I hear too many horror stories about substandard                 
  housing being built in the Bush, and that is my only caveat.                 
  ...I certainly wouldn't want anybody to think that one                       
  contractor would inspect the other contractor, it would be                   
  just too cozy."                                                              
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "It appears to me the intent is...it                   
  has to be either an architect, an engineer, or another                       
  person approved by the corporation.  I can tell you from my                  
  personal experience, having banked in Tok and Delta which                    
  are relatively next door compared to many parts of the                       
  state, that it's still tough, even being on the road system,                 
  it's very difficult, and I sympathize with these remote                      
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I certainly support the thrust                  
  of HB 180... I am a little bit concerned though about the                    
  standard that we would be setting here.  So I would, just                    
  for purposes of discussion, strike the architect and                         
  engineer language on line 12 (page 2) and just leave it                      
  'another person' and then insert after the word 'person',                    
  'certified' so it would be another person certified and                      
  approved by the corporation.  ...It would allow the                          
  corporation to establish an alternate certification                          
  program...  I don't believe that the licencing provisions                    
  under AS 08.48 really assure us that an architect, for                       
  example, is qualified to make these inspections."                            
  Number 262                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I would expect that Alaska Housing                    
  would have fairly stringent standards for people who do not                  
  meet the existing standards."                                                
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "This bill certainly doesn't have to                   
  move today."  He offered to bring up HB 180 again on                         
  Tuesday, March 16, 1993.                                                     
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS reminded Mr. Harding to address the                  
  questions the committee raised today, on Tuesday, March 16,                  
  Number 316                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 3:03 p.m.                           

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