Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/11/1993 01:00 PM House CRA
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE March 11, 1993 1:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman Representative Con Bunde Representative John Davies Representative Cynthia Toohey Representative Ed Willis Representative Bill Williams MEMBERS ABSENT none COMMITTEE CALENDAR HB 166: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency reporting systems; and providing for an effective date." CSHB 166 (CRA) PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS RECOMMENDATION *HB 180: "An Act relating to the residential housing inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation." HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE (* first public hearing) WITNESS REGISTER Representative Con Bunde State Capitol, Room 112 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 Phone: 465-4843 POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 166 Phillip Reeves, Deputy Attorney Kenai Peninsula Borough 144 N. Binkley Soldotna, AK 99669 Phone: 262-8607 POSITION STATEMENT: Proposed amendments to CSHB 166 Rocky Ansell, Emergency Medical Services Glennallen Fire Department P.O. Box 217 Copper Center, AK 99573 Phone: 822-3671 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166 John George Alaska State Fire Fighters Association Alaska State Fire Chiefs Association 9515 Moraine Way Juneau, AK 99801 Phone: 789-0172 POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested amendment to CSHB 166 Larry Fanning, Fire Chief City and Borough of Juneau 820 Glacier Avenue Juneau, AK 99801 Phone: 586-5322 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166 Bob Evans, Lobbyist Municipality of Anchorage P.O. Box 22184 Juneau, AK 99802 Phone: 364-3360 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166 David Harding, Legislative Aide to Representative Eileen Maclean State Capitol, Room 507 Juneau, AK 99801-1182 Phone: 465-4833 POSITION STATEMENT: Gave an overview of HB 180 Steve Wisdom Kenai Peninsula Builders Association P.O. Box 4184 Homer, AK 99603 Phone: 235-5266 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 180 Ron Anderson, ICBO Inspector Unalaska, AK Phone: 581-1373 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Jim McCormack, Vice President National Bank of Alaska P.O. Box 100600 Anchorage, AK 99510-0600 Phone: 276-1132 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Tony Doyle State Home Builders Association 7984 Spur Hwy. Kenai, AK 99611 Phone: 283-3886 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to HB 180 Jim Stevens, Deputy Director North Slope Borough Housing Department P.O. Box 69 Barrow, AK 99723 Phone: 852-0290 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Charlie Weiss Outsiders Construction P.O. Box 415 Nome, AK 99762 Phone: 443-5155 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Jim Stroer, President Kenai Peninsula Builders Association 335 Dolchok Soldotna, AK 99611 Phone: 283-5661 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 180 Myron McCumber McCumber Construction Box 1388 Barrow, AK 99723 Phone: 852-6588 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Marvin Hanebuth Hanebuth Builders Box 1701 Nome, AK 99762 Phone: 443-5360 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Michael Danner Lone Rock Construction Box 832 Barrow, AK 99723 Phone: 852-6100 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Jim Stimpfle, Realtor New Frontier Realty Box 729 Nome, AK 99762 Phone: 443-2002 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Robert Brean, Director Rural Housing Loan Program Alaska Housing Finance Corporation 520 E. 34th Anchorage, AK 99503 Phone: 561-1900 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Robin Harrison, Vice President National Bank of Alaska, Barrow Branch P.O. Box 209 Barrow, AK 99723 Phone: 852-6200 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Mitch Erickson, Assistant Vice President and Branch Manager National Bank of Alaska Box 1469 Nome, AK 99762 Phone: 443-2223 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 Rudy Rudisel, Architect P.O. Box 1938 Nome, AK 99762 Phone: 443-2979 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180 PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 166 SHORT TITLE: ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS BILL VERSION: SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE TITLE: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency reporting systems; and providing for an effective date." JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/18/93 381 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 02/18/93 381 (H) CRA, FINANCE 03/09/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/09/93 (H) MINUTE(CRA) 03/11/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/11/93 (H) MINUTE(STA) BILL: HB 180 SHORT TITLE: AHFC HOUSING INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS BILL VERSION: SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN TITLE: "An Act relating to the residential housing inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation." JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/25/93 455 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 02/25/93 455 (H) CRA, LABOR & COMMERCE 03/11/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-12, SIDE A Number 000 CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:10 p.m. He noted Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Williams, Sanders, Davies and Willis were present. HB 166: ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS Number 050 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES addressed the second committee substitute (CS) to HB 166 produced in subcommittee. He testified, in part, "What I want to try to do is solve some minor problems that I have... and I'm offering these in the spirit of trying to make some minor improvements that I think will help the bill along. ...One is just a minor one: There was some language in there that said the municipalities could accomplish this in instituting this enhanced 911 system by resolution or by ordinance. ...It was my feeling it would be better to do this by ordinance... The committee substitute really gets rid of the word 'resolution' in there and also changes the construct of the sentence so that the three things a municipality is being authorized to do here, it's clear that each one of those three things is done by ordinance. Number 142 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES continued, "The second one...is a question of what is the area of service... My concern that I raised at the last committee meeting is we might get into a situation where we had multiple jurisdictions involved... If we went back to the original bill (HB 166), before the committee substitute, there was language in there that talked about how to handle (this), so basically all I've done is taken that language from the original bill and put it back in here... It says that the bottom line power to set the charges rests with the individual communities. My basic concern here is that we don't get into a situation of sort of taxation without representation... However under Title 29, municipalities may join together to exercise power..." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "The last one is simply this question of upper limit of what can be charged. I asked a number of people why we were making a distinction between Anchorage, effectively, and the rest of the state...nobody gave me an answer that suggested there was any particular reason to do that. So I simply suggested in this committee substitute that we should get rid of all that language that talks about 100,000 people and simply set the maximum at 75 cents. Recognizing that...every community, every municipality sets its own upper limit." Number 201 REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 166, reminded the committee that HB 166 was introduced concurrently in the Senate and said, "If we change it substantially then we've got a problem: Conference Committee." CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked where the Senate version was presently. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE did not know. He added, "I have no problem with the idea of an ordinance rather than a resolution... Regarding, the 75 cents charge, I think reality says that when we say, 'no more than 75 cents,' the charge will be 75 cents. The 50 cents limit was supported by the Anchorage municipality. There is some indication that Anchorage may not want to support a greater charge than that... I'm not sure that the change to 75 cents total something that will be supportable..." Number 267 PHILLIP REEVES, DEPUTY ATTORNEY, KENAI PENINSULA BOROUGH, testified via teleconference from Soldotna. He said, "We don't have any problem with changing things from resolution or ordinance to ordinance. However, the changes that are proposed for the next section would apparently cause us to have to totally restructure 911 as we operate it at this time. What we do is, about 6 or 8 years ago each of the cities relinquished their 911 authority to the borough so that the Kenai Borough provides 911 on an area-wide basis...the cities themselves do not have direct input on the operation and do not have the financial involvement in the operation." MR. REEVES continued, "...We've reached an agreement like a contract, but our agreement is that the borough will do it itself, so we're not a separate legal entity. And we're certainly concerned that each of the municipalities retains the power to set and amend the surcharge when the municipalities aren't involved in the operation... So I guess what we'd suggest...first of all instead of saying 'a separate legal entity', you say 'a unified or cooperative enhanced 911 system'..." He then gave a detailed explanation of the changes he'd like to see made to CSHB 166. MR. REEVES then said further, "As for the 75 cents versus 50 cents, I can tell you the history of that change. Originally it was 50 cents only on the Senate side for SB 97. The municipality of Anchorage submitted 50 cents and, I believe, had indicated that they would not support the bill if it allowed for more than 50 cents. Basically, the equipment and the system that we have to provide for 40,000 people is identical to the system that Anchorage provides to its population so its the same cost except that we're a large geographic area... It actually costs us more to provide the same 911 system that Anchorage provides. So we're real concerned about having the 75 cents go back down to 50 cents for us." Number 343 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'm a little bit puzzled as to why this language gives rise to those concerns;" and addressed the concerns in detail. He said, "The fundamental concern that I have is that we don't get into a situation where one municipality effectively enacts a tax or surcharge on another municipality. Having said that, under Title 29, any municipality may enter into a contract with another municipality which effectively delegates their authority to set that particular surcharge." Number 364 MR. REEVES said, "My concern is that there's express language here that says the municipalities retain the power to set and amend the 911 surcharge... I think we already have the authority that this amendment would provide. When I look at this amendment, the only thing that I really see that stands out is that it says the municipalities, even if they contract cooperatively, will retain the power to set and amend the 911 surcharge... I can certainly see a possibility that one of the cities would come back now and say, well, we have the power to set the surcharge." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "My concern is that the way this bill (HB 166) was originally written it seemed that it was possible for one municipality without the consent of another to set this rate..." MR. REEVES said, "I haven't read this bill (HB 166) to see whether or not this alters those facts, but under Title 29, I think the authority of a municipality is limited to its jurisdiction unless it meets the specific extraterritorial (criteria)." Number 416 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "That was specifically my concern, that this bill (HB 166) would give the municipalities that legal authority to extend their power outside their boundaries for this purpose." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "Would it address your concerns if this (line 29 of the first CSHB 166) were to read 'the municipalities are jointly to set and amend the 911 surcharge'." MR. REEVES said, "I just got this this morning and didn't really have a chance to think about both sides... I think at this point I still have a concern unless it clearly somehow states that where some municipalities have given up their authority and transferred the authority to another municipality, that the municipality that now has the authority is the sole interest involved in setting those charges." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to construct an amendment to address Mr. Reeves concerns. Number 461 ROCKY ANSELL, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, GLENNALLEN FIRE DEPARTMENT, testified via teleconference from Glennallen. He said, "You have my support on this bill (CSHB 166). I do have one question though, I see most of the language referring to municipalities and I wonder if there's going to be any mechanism for the unorganized areas...to take a part in this enhanced 911 project." CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "At the present time, the very lack of organization is, in fact, the answer to the question. There is no legal entity to channel the funds back through from the utility, as I understand it." Number 477 MR. ANSELL described his situation, "Currently, the Copper Valley telephone cooperative in the area of the Copper River Basin provides 911 service, and to me it looks like it should be fairly simple to develop a mechanism for that utility to make direct payment...for that surcharge if they're allowed to collect these monies from their individual customers." CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked if Copper Valley extended into Valdez. MR. ANSELL replied, "Yes." CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Valdez could be the municipality serving the entire Copper River Valley telephone geographic area." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "Under Title 29, a municipality may exercise powers extraterritorially." REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY added, "At their request." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "Absolutely." Number 511 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OFFERED an AMENDMENT to Mr. Reeves. MR. REEVES tentatively concurred. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to "get together and work out some language that would be mutually acceptable". JOHN GEORGE, ALASKA STATE FIRE FIGHTERS ASSOCIATION AND THE ALASKA STATE FIRE CHIEFS ASSOCIATION, testified, "We support the concept of enhanced 911. We believe it's important that we have a funding mechanism and this bill (HB 166) does it..." He suggested that "and other essential communication equipment required by the system" be added throughout the versions of CSHB 166. Number 569 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I think it's redundant... That extension that you have in there is effectively incorporated within." MR. GEORGE said, "If that's clear... if that's legislative intent." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES reiterated the definition sought by Mr. George was already incorporated in CSHB 166. Number 583 LARRY FANNING, FIRE CHIEF, CITY AND BOROUGH OF JUNEAU, testified briefly in favor of CSHB 166. BOB EVANS, LOBBYIST, MUNICIPALITY OF ANCHORAGE, testified in favor of CSHB 166, saying, "Mayor Fink has indicated support for the 50 cent surcharge." Number 600 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked why Mayor Fink did not support the 75 cents surcharge. MR. EVANS did not know. Number 609 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE talked about limiting the surcharge. He asked Mr. Evans if he thought Anchorage would charge less than the surcharge limit or if whatever the limit was set at would "become the rate" charged. MR. EVANS said, "From the mayor's perspective, I think that he believes the pressure will go to whatever the limit is." Number 625 CHAIRMAN OLBERG called an at ease at 1:47 p.m. CHAIRMAN OLBERG reconvened the meeting at 1:52. He pointed out the committee had two different committee substitutes to HB 166 before them. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I've just received information that the City of Fairbanks is this evening going to pass a resolution favoring my original committee substitute plus the concerns expressed by Anchorage and Kenai, I would MOVE my original committee substitute, I think that would accomplish what I want to accomplish more quickly." CHAIRMAN OLBERG acknowledged the MOTION to ADOPT Representative Bunde's CSHB 166. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "If I understand correctly, the concern is simply the question of the 75 cents. If that's the only concern, the simplest way would be to adopt the version that I suggested and then amend that back to put the 50 cent language back in there. Number 640 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE retorted, "As I had indicated, there is a large portion of the second committee substitute that addresses some specific Fairbanks concerns and now that I hear that they're going to endorse my original version, I suggest we just go ahead with that, rather than complicate things." CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Possibly it boils down to a pride of authorship question." Number 663 A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Davies and Willis voted AGAINST the adoption of Representative Bunde's committee substitute. Representatives Bunde, Sanders, Toohey, Williams and Olberg voted FOR the adoption of Representative Bunde's committee substitute. Number 667 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE denied that a "pride of authorship" existed. "I feel that this is going to more cleanly address the problem of enhanced 911," he said. Representative Bunde then MOVED that CSHB 166 be moved out of committee with individual recommendations. Number 684 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "It's always the case, however, in this stage of the legislation, amendments are made. If they weren't, there would be no point in us hearing these things... With respect to resolutions that are made: People pass those resolutions at the municipal level knowing that things are going to get changed slightly." TAPE 93-12, SIDE B Number 000 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES PROPOSED an AMENDMENT saying, "I would like to SUBSTITUTE the language that's in my version, the second version of the committee substitute. That would be the language on page three of that draft that comes from line 14 down through line 22 and would REPLACE the language that's in the one that's before us right now on page three, line 14 through 20." Number 025 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he had no objection to the amendment. The AMENDMENT PASSED. Number 047 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'd like to MOVE the second item which is on that same page three on the second committee substitute, line 23, on page four, line seven and SUBSTITUTE in the one that's before us from line 21 through line five on page four... All I want to do is to substitute the language that's here (to) make it more clear...what is meant by the area and to address the concern that we don't want to establish a principle in law here that says one municipality may effectively establish a tax or surcharge on another." Number 074 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED saying, "In this case, as I said, being Fairbanks took a look at this and didn't have a major objection... I suggest we go ahead with my original version (of the CS)." Number 092 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Are there portions of that amendment that you are willing to keep in?" REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "No." The roll was called on AMENDMENT NUMBER TWO to the first version (Representative Bunde's version) of CSHB 166. Representatives Davies and Willis voted FOR the amendment. Representatives Sanders, Williams, Toohey, Bunde and Olberg voted AGAINST the amendment. The MOTION FAILED. Number 119 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED that "we strike the language that restricts the upper limit to 50 cents and use the language that makes it consistent 75 cents statewide..." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED. A roll call vote was taken on the THIRD AMENDMENT proposed to the first version of CSHB 166. Representatives Davies and Willis voted FOR the amendment. Representatives Sanders, Williams, Bunde, Toohey and Olberg voted AGAINST the amendment. The MOTION FAILED. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE reminded the committee he had a MOTION on the floor to pass CSHB 166 out of committee with individual recommendations. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES REMOVED his previous OBJECTION. The MOTION PASSED to move CSHB 166, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations. CHAIRMAN OLBERG thanked Representative Davies for his efforts on CSHB 166 (CRA). Number 170 HB 180: AHFC HOUSING INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS DAVID HARDING, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE EILEEN MACLEAN, testified reading from Representative MacLean's sponsor statement. (A copy of this sponsor statement may be found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.) MR. HARDING added, "The ICBO inspection requirements under consideration we originally put into law in order to address the concerns of some builders in the rail-belt area, and the changes proposed here (in HB 180) would not affect any builders on the road system. House Bill 180 would only adjust the law to address problems that have arisen in rural loan programs, affecting remote areas of the state." Number 247 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "I appreciate the streamlining of this, but why not on a road accessible area? If it's good for the rural area, why can't it be good for Copper Center or Valdez?" MR. HARDING replied, "In some places along the road system I think it would make a lot of sense. I think the intent here is to get at the excessive costs that are associated with having to fly somewhere to a remote location in order to do the inspections. I guess the problem with including parts of the road system in it, is how you would determine which parts of the road system would be eligible and which wouldn't..." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "My only comment is that an inspector should be qualified to do everybody - a bank loan or an Alaska Housing Finance Loan, or anything." Number 285 STEVE WISDOM, KENAI PENINSULA BUILDER'S ASSOCIATION, read testimony via teleconference from Homer, as submitted to the committee members. (A copy of this testimony may be found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.) He said, "We cannot support legislation which would allow inspections by anyone other than an ICBO certified inspectors" and "The Alaska Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC) should be given the authority to deal with isolated problems of residential inspections in rural areas on a case-by-case basis." MR. WISDOM also read similar personal testimony into the record. (A copy of this testimony may be found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.) Number 345 RON ANDERSON, ICBO INSPECTOR, UNALASKA, testified via teleconference in support of HB 180 saying, "...(Unalaska) is about 800 air miles southwest of Anchorage... It would be about $5,500 inspection to bring an ICBO inspector to Unalaska for an inspection. I happen to be an ICBO inspector and I'm not able to inspect my own work... I go along with Mr. Wisdom's philosophy about the importance of an ICBO inspection. I also go along wholeheartedly that each case should be dealt with on a case by case basis. ...I do have a problem with some of the definitions in the bill (HB 180)...rural would totally accept everybody in Southeast Alaska, except for Haines." MR. ANDERSON continued, "I also agree with a journeyman carpenter conducting inspections. Who decides what a journeyman carpenter is?... Maybe AHFC could come up with a step-by-step procedure to conduct these inspections. So if there was not a qualified individual available, maybe a licenced electrical administrator or a licensed mechanical administrator or a licensed structural engineer could take this list along..." Number 405 JIM MCCORMACK, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BANK OF ANCHORAGE, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, in support of HB 180. He read from the letter which was provided to the committee. (A copy of this letter may be found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.) He added, "We believe the home owners of the rural areas not accessible by road are the most severely impacted in the current legislation. Opposition to parts of this house bill (HB 180) are from persons who do not live in these areas and do not experience the same difficulties. In our conversations with our rural customers, they overwhelmingly support HB 180 in its entirety..." Number 470 TONY DOYLE, STATE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference from Soldotna. He said, "We do want to do what's necessary to alleviate these expenses that are astronomical for inspections...case by case basis, how do you write that into law? It might be possible to specifically exempt the Rural Housing Loan Program and draft it right in its legislation because that was the intent. It may be a possibility to exempt communities under a certain population size. Another idea might be that we go ahead and allow non-certified people to make inspections for a period of one year and give those people in the rural areas a chance to become certified inspectors. If someone really truly is qualified to inspect residential housing, it should not be that big of a problem to pick up the regular certification..." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Why can't we have this type of inspector all over the state for Alaska housing?" MR. DOYLE said, "When we initially put this legislation in, we wanted that bench mark of ICBO inspections simply because that's the way to have inspectors know what they're doing." Number 518 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Is there equal parity as far as pay? Is the rural person going to have to pay more for this inspection or less? If we're keeping them equal then I have no problem with it and I support the bill (HB 180)." MR. DOYLE replied, "Outside of municipalities, a home builder would need to hire an ICBO inspector, and currently that cost from inspections ranges anywhere between 400 and 600 dollars for a home...for your four inspections." Number 526 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "How difficult is it and how expensive is it for someone to become an ICBO certified inspector? Is it possible that all communities of any size could have their own resident inspector?" MR. DOYLE said, "Alaska Housing was generous enough last year to hold two week long seminars preparing people to take the ICBO test. It would be my hope that Alaska Housing would be (again) willing to assist, to help these communities out in the rural areas..." Number 548 JIM STEVENS, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NORTH SLOPE BOROUGH HOUSING DEPARTMENT, testified via teleconference from Barrow, in support of HB 180. He said, "I think it provides the latitude we need up here to hold the inspection costs down" and added, "...The testing date to become an ICBO certified inspector is set nationwide, so it's a very inflexible program, as far as actual dates. ...In addition to this there are many standards in ICBO that don't apply to the Arctic Slope." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "As you understand the intent of this bill (HB 180), do you understand it to mean a contractor could inspect and sign off his own work or... a second person to do this?" MR. STEVENS replied, "We would still need a third party to inspect. As much as I like our contractors, I would still require someone else to look at their work." Number 581 CHARLIE WEISS, OUTSIDERS CONSTRUCTION, NOME, testified briefly via teleconference from Nome, in favor of HB 180. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "As this expands the pool of inspectors would you anticipate excluding the cost of transportation, that the price of inspections would go down?" MR. WEISS said, "Yes." Number 603 JIM STROER, PRESIDENT, KENAI PENINSULA BUILDERS ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference from Soldotna saying, "I know that Alaska Housing has merged and that has created a problem, but I think that should be able to be addressed through Alaska Housing in that merge." Number 615 MYRON MCCUMBER, MCCUMBER CONSTRUCTION, BARROW, testified via teleconference from Barrow, in support of HB 180 and added, "We would like to see if this can't be worked out, some kind of an equitable fee structure, maybe a fee pool, administered by the state that would allow every builder to pay the same costs. So that the Kenai and other home builders' associations could subsidize our high expenses in these inspections." Number 625 MARVIN HANEBUTH, HANEBUTH BUILDERS, NOME, testified briefly via teleconference from Nome, in support of HB 180. Number 630 MICHAEL DANNER, LONE ROCK CONSTRUCTION, BARROW, testified via teleconference from Barrow, in support of HB 180 saying, "I am not against inspections of home... However, the big costs related to these inspections seems to be transportation, and in the same way a state road or a subsidized ferry system lowers the cost of inspection in other areas... I think that something needs to be done to either, and I support fully HB 180, either we need to do that or make some other arrangements to pay for the high cost of transporting and putting these inspectors up while they're in the area." Number 648 JIM STIMPFLE, NEW FRONTIER REALTY and PRESIDENT OF THE NOME CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, testified via teleconference from Nome saying, "Basically I support this legislation but I think the operative word is...'or by another person approved by the corporation.' I think that in the rural areas the bottom line is that these inspections are going to cost extra for the builder and the buyer. If there's some way that AHFC can implement a training program or inform rural residents about how this program works so that we can identify either four or five or six other people that may not be exactly ICBO certified...then this program would be very workable for us in Nome." Number 673 ROBERT BREAN, DIRECTOR, RURAL HOUSING LOAN PROGRAM, AHFC, testified from Anchorage via teleconference saying, "On one hand yes, we do agree with the concept that we want quality housing across the state, and the way to do that is through insuring that homes are built to proper code. On the other hand, we do recognize the undue burden placed on rural Alaska and we think HB 180 goes a long way to find that middle ground and create that flexibility for the rural borrower that would allow us to do the right thing in rural Alaska and ensure that quality housing is still there." TAPE 93-13, SIDE A Number 000 ROBIN HARRISON, VICE PRESIDENT, BARROW BRANCH - NATIONAL BANK OF ALASKA testified in favor of HB 180 via teleconference from Barrow saying, "I do agree with the inspection process, however, there is one basic problem that cripples rural housing development, it's the strict criteria set out to become an inspector. Because of the ICBO criteria to become eligible, we have very few inspectors readily available...and because there are four minimum visits required... This winter, we had five construction loans, five construction projects on hold, loan commitments hanging, contractors holding back and, of course, the borrowers bouncing off the walls..." Number 052 MITCH ERICKSON, ASSISTANT VICE PRESIDENT AND BRANCH MANAGER, NATIONAL BANK OF ALASKA, NOME, concurred with Ms. Harrison's testimony via teleconference from Nome. Number 062 RUDY RUDISEL, ARCHITECT, testified via teleconference from Nome saying, "I'm in favor of this HB (HB 180) especially expanding the pool of inspectors. It costs so much to build buildings down here, and transportation of the ICBO inspectors adds quite a bit to the cost of the building. Our material costs are more than double what they are in Anchorage..." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked why there were no inspectors locally in Nome. MR. RUDISEL said, "Nobody has the training right now for that." Number 092 MR. ANDERSON of Unalaska confirmed his earlier support for HB 180 and reminded the committee he would like the AHFC to have "case-by-case" discretion. He said, "Look at this testimony, and realize that you can fly to Seattle and back cheaper than we can fly to Anchorage one way." MR. DOYLE testified again saying, "I do support the intent of (HB) 180 in that we do want to get this problem rectified for the folks out in these outlying areas. Alaska Housing invested about $150,000 having ICBO come up and run testing last year. So ICBO has some flexibility built in their program, and it might be possible...they'd be willing to do some sort of correspondence work with these outlying areas." Number 129 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked, "Would it be acceptable... if we enacted this... for two years?" MR. MCCORMACK via teleconference pointed out, "The AHFC found there's not enough volume in some of these smaller areas, the rural areas, as far as home building volume, to really justify having a resident home building industry to begin with... The intent of HB 180 is not to exempt any of the rural areas from inspections... We're not in favor of that." Number 176 CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I didn't understand that anybody was talking about exempting particular areas, I think we understand this is a means by which extremely rural areas might derive some economic benefits as it relates to inspections associated with AHFC loans." REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "Obviously, I don't live in these areas and haven't built in those areas and would like to allow them as much flexibility as possible, as long as it's in line with good building practices, safe building practices. I hear too many horror stories about substandard housing being built in the Bush, and that is my only caveat. ...I certainly wouldn't want anybody to think that one contractor would inspect the other contractor, it would be just too cozy." CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "It appears to me the intent is...it has to be either an architect, an engineer, or another person approved by the corporation. I can tell you from my personal experience, having banked in Tok and Delta which are relatively next door compared to many parts of the state, that it's still tough, even being on the road system, it's very difficult, and I sympathize with these remote areas." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I certainly support the thrust of HB 180... I am a little bit concerned though about the standard that we would be setting here. So I would, just for purposes of discussion, strike the architect and engineer language on line 12 (page 2) and just leave it 'another person' and then insert after the word 'person', 'certified' so it would be another person certified and approved by the corporation. ...It would allow the corporation to establish an alternate certification program... I don't believe that the licencing provisions under AS 08.48 really assure us that an architect, for example, is qualified to make these inspections." Number 262 CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I would expect that Alaska Housing would have fairly stringent standards for people who do not meet the existing standards." REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY PROPOSED an AMENDMENT and WITHDREW her proposal. ANNOUNCEMENT CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "This bill certainly doesn't have to move today." He offered to bring up HB 180 again on Tuesday, March 16, 1993. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS reminded Mr. Harding to address the questions the committee raised today, on Tuesday, March 16, 1993. Number 316 ADJOURNMENT CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 3:03 p.m.