Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205

03/11/2024 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= SB 199 STATE LAND: DISPOSAL/SALE/LEASE/RESTRICT TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+= SB 210 SALMON HATCHERY PERMITS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
*+ SB 164 STATE PARK PERMITS FOR DISABLED VETERANS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
                 SB 210-SALMON HATCHERY PERMITS                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:26:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR BISHOP  announced the consideration  of SENATE  BILL NO.                                                               
210 "An Act relating to  salmon hatchery permits; and authorizing                                                               
the sale of salmon to permitted persons for stocking lakes."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:26:53 PM                                                                                                                    
DOUG VINCENT-LANG,  Commissioner, Alaska  Department of  Fish and                                                               
Game (ADFG),  Anchorage, Alaska,  presented SB  210 on  behalf of                                                               
the administration.  He explained that state  hatchery facilities                                                               
currently  lack  the surplus  to  meet  the demand  for  stocking                                                               
public  lakes, as  these facilities  are funded  by sport  angler                                                               
dollars and  federal Dingell-Johnson funds, which  restrict their                                                               
use to the most beneficial lakes  for sport fishing. SB 210 would                                                               
create  additional  recreational  and economic  opportunities  by                                                               
enabling private nonprofit hatchery  operators to sell fish under                                                               
the existing  Department of Fish  and Game  permitting structure.                                                               
This process  would ensure that  all fish sales and  stocking are                                                               
regulated to  prevent negative impacts on  wild fish populations.                                                               
Operators would need  to obtain a fish transport  permit, and the                                                               
species, life  stage, and stocking  locations would  be evaluated                                                               
and  approved to  minimize risks.  ADFG employs  sterile stocking                                                               
methods  when   possible  and  typically  approves   the  use  of                                                               
reproductively  viable fish  only  in landlocked  lakes or  those                                                               
where fish cannot  escape. The bill does not mandate  the sale of                                                               
fish  but provides  an option  for hatchery  operators and  could                                                               
enhance  food security  by allowing  communities  to stock  their                                                               
lakes, particularly  highlighted during the COVID-19  crisis when                                                               
rural communities faced food  security challenges. The department                                                               
can manage  the additional  workload for  processing applications                                                               
with minimal fiscal impact, as  the fish transport permit process                                                               
is  already  in place.  This  change  is  expected to  offer  new                                                               
revenue opportunities for hatchery  operators and increase access                                                               
to fishing resources for Alaskans.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:30:26 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR BISHOP  inquired about  the process  for stocking  a 10-                                                               
acre, landlocked  lake. He  asked for  a detailed  explanation of                                                               
the steps involved, including how  to initiate contact with ADFG,                                                               
the timeline  for application review, any  necessary inspections,                                                               
and  the overall  duration  of the  process  from application  to                                                               
stocking.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:30:41 PM                                                                                                                    
SAM RABUNG,  Director, Division  of Commercial  Fisheries, Alaska                                                               
Department of  Fish and Game (ADFG),  Anchorage, Alaska, answered                                                               
questions related  to SB 210.  He explained that the  process for                                                               
stocking a  10-acre, landlocked lake involves  several key steps.                                                               
First,  an individual  would need  to contact  ADFG or  submit an                                                               
application online  for a fish  transport permit.  The department                                                               
evaluates the application based on  the lake's type, its capacity                                                               
to support fish,  and the species to be stocked.  This review and                                                               
permit  issuance  typically take  one  to  two months.  Once  the                                                               
permit is granted, the individual would  then need to work with a                                                               
nonprofit hatchery to produce and  stock the fish. It's important                                                               
to note  that fish cannot be  obtained by simply picking  them up                                                               
at  a  hatchery; the  entire  process  requires pre-approval  and                                                               
proper permits.  The individual would contract  with the hatchery                                                               
to carry  out the stocking,  following the same procedures  as if                                                               
the state were managing the program.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:32:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  BISHOP  asked  if  there  is  any  follow-up  with  the                                                               
landowner after  receiving approval  and arranging for  a private                                                               
nonprofit hatchery  to stock the lake.  Specifically, he inquired                                                               
whether ADFG conducts any further  inspections or evaluations one                                                               
year later or if there are additional follow-up procedures.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:32:43 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG   responded  that  there   is  an   annual  reporting                                                               
requirement   for  activities   involving   stocked  lakes.   The                                                               
Department of  Fish and  Game would review  these reports  at the                                                               
end of  each year. However,  aside from this reporting,  there is                                                               
generally  no additional  follow-up. The  projects are  typically                                                               
"put and take"  operations, meaning the fish  are introduced with                                                               
the  intent  of  being  harvested  rather  than  reproducing.  In                                                               
landlocked lakes,  the habitat is  usually not conducive  to fish                                                               
reproduction. If the fish are  harvested and the landowner wishes                                                               
to restock, they would need to repeat the application process.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:33:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked if there  are any locations in Alaska that                                                               
currently do that.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:33:47 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG  explained  that the  state  currently  handles  lake                                                               
stocking, primarily in  the Railbelt region, due to  the need for                                                               
public access and  the limited fish production  capacity of state                                                               
facilities. Stocking  is prioritized  based on public  access and                                                               
use, so  remote areas  are less  likely to  be stocked.  He added                                                               
that  while  there is  no  private  nonprofit hatchery  (PNP)  in                                                               
Southeast Alaska  dedicated to lake  stocking, fish  are supplied                                                               
to  the  state  under  contract,  and the  state  uses  its  fish                                                               
transport  permit for  distribution.  The  proposed change  would                                                               
enable individuals to purchase these  fish directly for stocking,                                                               
rather than relying on the state to manage the process.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:34:25 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  VINCENT-LANG  added  that currently,  no  private  nonprofit                                                               
hatchery   (PNP)   is   producing  fish   in   Southeast   Alaska                                                               
specifically  for  lake  stocking  programs.  Instead,  fish  are                                                               
provided to  the state  of Alaska under  contract, and  the state                                                               
uses its fish  transport permit to distribute  them. The proposed                                                               
change would  allow individuals to  purchase these  fish directly                                                               
for  stocking, rather  than relying  on the  state to  handle the                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:34:45 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG  explained  that the  state  contracts  with  private                                                               
nonprofit hatcheries  to handle some  of the lake  stocking work,                                                               
particularly in  areas where  there are  no state  hatcheries. He                                                               
noted that  this practice  is employed  in both  Southeast Alaska                                                               
and Kodiak, where state facilities are not available.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:35:07 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KAWASAKI   pointed  out  that  the   Ruth  Burnett  Fish                                                               
Hatchery, located  in the heart  of downtown Fairbanks, is  a key                                                               
facility.  He  raised  a question  about  the  proposed  changes,                                                               
noting  that it  represents  a significant  shift  from a  public                                                               
process to a  more private one. He expressed  a concern regarding                                                               
whether  this  new approach  aligns  with  the current  fin  fish                                                               
farming legislation  under Title  16, which governs  fish farming                                                               
practices.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:36:00 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. RABUNG clarified  that the proposed change is  not related to                                                               
fish  farming but  rather pertains  to lake  stocking for  sports                                                               
fishing. He explained that the  process of issuing fish transport                                                               
permits for stocking lakes would  remain the same as it currently                                                               
is. The  key difference is that  the Department of Fish  and Game                                                               
(DFG) does  not have  the capacity  to stock  all the  lakes that                                                               
people  request. The  new approach  would  provide an  additional                                                               
option for stocking more lakes if the proposal is passed.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:36:31 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  VINCENT-LANG acknowledged  that remote  and less  accessible                                                               
lakes  may not  rank  high for  state-sponsored  stocking due  to                                                               
limited public  access and the  need to prioritize  sport fishing                                                               
opportunities. However,  if individuals wish to  stock such lakes                                                               
with rainbow trout for events or  to provide a local food source,                                                               
they  would have  the option  to purchase  fish from  a nonprofit                                                               
hatchery.  This  approach  supports   food  security  and  offers                                                               
opportunities  for local  fishing, even  if these  lakes may  not                                                               
otherwise receive state-funded stocking efforts.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:37:15 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KAWASAKI  inquired  about  the  challenges  of  stocking                                                               
public lakes, particularly in cases  where there is a shortage of                                                               
fish. He noted that certain  species, such as grayling, have been                                                               
difficult  to  produce,  leading   to  discontinuation  of  their                                                               
stocking. He asked  what happens if a private  entity requests to                                                               
stock  a  personal  lake  with   fish  that  might  otherwise  be                                                               
allocated to public lakes, given the limited supply.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:37:49 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  VINCENT-LANG replied  that ADFG  would not  stock a  private                                                               
lake  with  the  existing   Fairbanks  or  anchorage  hatcheries,                                                               
because they were paid for with  sport dollars, and they were and                                                               
they have Dingle Johnson money going  to it, so they have to have                                                               
some reasonable  access for everybody  else. This would  allow an                                                               
individual,  for instance,  maybe  own some  gravel  pits in  the                                                               
Thermax area in  your district that wants to stock  some of those                                                               
gravel pits for  running their clients some  opportunity to catch                                                               
fish  in those  gravel  pits. They  could buy  those  from a  PMP                                                               
hatchery,  where  ADFG would  not  sell  them to  them,  because,                                                               
again, there's no public access for the general public.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:38:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR BISHOP  asked if  the state  uses aircraft  to propagate                                                               
lakes.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:38:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. VINCENT-LANG replied that some  lakes are stocked by aircraft                                                               
and  gave  an example  of  a  lake  stocked  by aircraft  in  the                                                               
Anchorage area.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:38:48 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  expressed concern about the  opposition and                                                               
concerns raised by biologists  regarding similar bills, including                                                               
those related  to geoducks  and the transfer  of wild  salmon. He                                                               
sought clarification  on whether  all the fish  being transferred                                                               
under this proposal are sterile and incapable of reproducing.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:39:22 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  VINCENT-LANG  replied that  ensuring  fish  are sterile  and                                                               
unable  to  reproduce  would  be a  requirement  under  the  fish                                                               
transport permit (FTP) process.  He explained that the Department                                                               
of  Fish  and  Game  (ADFG) would  stipulate  this  condition  to                                                               
prevent non-sterile fish from escaping  in a flood event or other                                                               
circumstances.  This  stipulation would  be  part  of the  permit                                                               
requirements for stocking a lake.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:39:36 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI wondered  if the  sterilization requirement                                                               
should be put in statute.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:39:45 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG explained  that the  lake stocking  policy, which  is                                                               
available   online  and   possibly   on   the  board's   website,                                                               
categorizes   lakes  into   five   categories   based  on   their                                                               
characteristics,  such  as being  landlocked  or  having an  open                                                               
outlet.  For landlocked  lakes where  there  is no  risk of  fish                                                               
escaping,  the  policy  allows for  stocking  with  viable  fish.                                                               
However, for lakes where there is  a chance of fish escaping, the                                                               
policy  requires  the  use  of   sterile  fish  to  mitigate  any                                                               
potential impact.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:40:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked  if  there have  been  any  concerns                                                               
expressed by biologists or scientists at ADFG.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:40:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. VINCENT-LANG replied he has  not heard any concerns expressed                                                               
by the department.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:40:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked whether  "Atlantic salmon"  should be                                                               
defined as "Alaskan salmon."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:41:07 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. VINCENT-LANG commented  that he would not be  opposed to that                                                               
suggestion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:41:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG replied  that  it  is not  illegal  to have  Atlantic                                                               
salmon in Alaska.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:41:25 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked for  confirmation of his understanding                                                               
that the  prohibition of  salmon sales  is prohibited  by Alaskan                                                               
hatcheries.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:41:39 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG   replied  that  there   is  a  prohibition   of  the                                                               
importation  of live  fish to  Alaska,  so it  must occur  within                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:41:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked  whether  any  attorneys  have  been                                                               
consulted  regarding  potential  constitutional issues  with  the                                                               
bill, specifically  concerning the  sustained yield  provision or                                                               
any other provisions of the Alaska Constitution.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:42:01 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. VINCENT-LANG replied that Alaska  Department of Law (DOL) has                                                               
not raised any concerns.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:42:16 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAUFMAN asked  if SB 210 would have  any implications for                                                               
micro-aquaculture projects,  such as those  involving small-scale                                                               
hydroponic systems  where fish  like rainbow  trout are  grown in                                                               
refrigerated tanks.  He noted that  these systems create  a self-                                                               
regenerating nitrogen cycle, providing  high yields from both the                                                               
fish  and  the hydroponic  plants  with  minimal inputs.  Senator                                                               
Kaufman  inquired whether  this bill  would facilitate  or hinder                                                               
such innovative  practices in Alaska and  sought more information                                                               
on how it might affect these types of projects.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:43:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. RABUNG  replied that the type  of micro-aquaculture described                                                               
would be considered fish farming,  which is prohibited in Alaska.                                                               
Therefore, this bill would not  provide an opportunity to support                                                               
or that practice.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:43:53 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAUFMAN expressed agreement with his statement.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:44:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  asked whether the  bill refers to  the colloquial                                                               
term  "salmon,"  which typically  includes  the  five species  of                                                               
salmon, or  if it  encompasses the  broader family  of salmonids,                                                               
which includes other types of freshwater fish.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:44:37 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. RABUNG explained that internally,  the Department of Fish and                                                               
Game (ADFG)  has discussed the  taxonomy, and trout  are included                                                               
in the  broader family of  salmonids. Since most of  the stocking                                                               
under the bill  will involve rainbow trout, referring  to them as                                                               
"salmon"   is  considered   adequate.  However,   clarifying  the                                                               
terminology  to specifically  include trout  would not  cause any                                                               
issues.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:45:01 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  VINCENT-LANG  added that  if  a  private nonprofit  hatchery                                                               
(PNP)  were to  pursue this  route, they  would likely  adopt the                                                               
technologies and innovations already  established by the state of                                                               
Alaska's hatchery  programs. He suggested  that it would  be more                                                               
practical for  them to  focus on species  that have  already been                                                               
successfully managed in the state,  rather than starting entirely                                                               
new programs with species that have not been as successful.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:45:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR said the law  may be difficult to interpret. There                                                               
could be clarifying language.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:45:53 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  acknowledged  that  while  hatcheries  are                                                               
sophisticated,  the   average  person  might  not   realize  that                                                               
"salmon" in  the bill includes  trout, given  common perceptions.                                                               
He suggested that  there might be a need  for clarifying language                                                               
to   ensure   that   the  bill's   terminology   is   clear   and                                                               
understandable to  the public,  although he  stated that  did not                                                               
feel strongly about this issue.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:46:26 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. VINCENT-LANG clarified that the  department would not issue a                                                               
permit for stocking fish in a  lake with an inflow or outflow due                                                               
to the associated  issues. Therefore, he suggested  that the term                                                               
"enclosed" might not be necessary in  the context of the bill, as                                                               
these  situations are  already covered  under  the existing  fish                                                               
transport permit process.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:46:49 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG  explained  that  private  nonprofit  hatcheries  are                                                               
currently limited  to working with  salmon, which  includes trout                                                               
due  to  their classification  within  the  same genus.  Although                                                               
trout  and  salmon  were not  always  classified  together,  this                                                               
changed in  the 1990s.  If there is  interest in  including other                                                               
species, statutory revisions would be required.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:47:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR BISHOP inquired about the fish size for sales.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:47:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. VINCENT-LANG replied that it depends upon the lake.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BISHOP asked about fish that weigh two pounds.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:47:47 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RABUNG  said  it  could  take a  while  depending  on  water                                                               
temperature and the food supply.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:47:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  BISHOP  acknowledged that  it  takes  a long  time  for                                                               
species like pike,  sheefish, and whitefish to  reach adult size.                                                               
He  emphasized   the  need   for  alternative   protein  sources,                                                               
especially  if wild  stocks  do not  recover  to their  necessary                                                               
levels.  He  noted  that  these  conversations  explore  ways  to                                                               
address this issue and provide additional protein sources.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:48:28 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR BISHOP held SB 210 in committee.                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB 199 DNR Clarification Comments Letter 03.08.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 199
SB 210 Transmittal Letter Ver. A.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 210
SB 210 Sectional Analysis Ver. A. 02.21.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 210
SB 210 ADFG Fiscal Note 02.21.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 210
SB 210 Supporting Document - ADF&G Lake Stocking Policy.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 210
SB 210 Supporting Document - FTP Application Instructions.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 210
SB 210 Supporting Document - Statutes and Regulations.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 210
SB 210 Public Testimony as of 03.08.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 210
SB 164 Sponsor Statement 2.14.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 164
SB 164 Ver S Sectional Analysis 2.14.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 164
SB 164 Fiscal note DNR 03.11.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 164
SB 199 Public Testimony Rec'd by 03.11.24.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 199
SB 199 Support Letter AML.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 199
SB 164 DNR Follow Up to 03.11.24 Hearing.pdf SRES 3/11/2024 3:30:00 PM
SB 164