Legislature(2017 - 2018)BUTROVICH 205

02/01/2017 03:30 PM RESOURCES

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
03:30:14 PM Start
03:31:18 PM Update on the Oil and Gas Competitiveness Review Board
03:53:33 PM SB3
04:40:24 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview and Update: Oil and Gas Competitiveness TELECONFERENCED
Review Board
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
*+ SB 3 SMALL VESSEL WASTEWATER EXEMPTION; 1% ART TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
        SB   3-SMALL VESSEL WASTEWATER EXEMPTION; 1% ART                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:53:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL  announced  consideration  of SB  3.  It  proposes                                                               
continuing  a   discharge  exemption  for  certain   vessels  and                                                               
applying a  waiver of the 1  percent for art for  the new Alaska-                                                               
class ferries  being built for  use in the Alaska  Marine Highway                                                               
System (AMHS).                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
She explained that the 1 percent  for art provision dates to 1975                                                               
and  requires  if  capital  budget   money  is  spent  on  public                                                               
facilities that  1 percent  of the  construction costs  go toward                                                               
the  acquisition and/or  installation  of art  work.  In 2006,  a                                                               
voter  initiative  imposed  discharge standards  that  were  also                                                               
applied  to  the  Alaska  Marine Highway  System  that  was  then                                                               
exempted.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:54:17 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN,  Alaska   State  Legislature,  Juneau,  Alaska,                                                               
sponsor of SB 3, said this  is an extension bill with another art                                                               
component. Looking  at the exemption,  Alaska has  smaller ships,                                                               
mostly  older,  particularly  the   AMHS  vessels.  If  AMHS  was                                                               
required  to comply,  it would  face a  cost issue  on their  old                                                               
ships that  are being phased out  and the newer ones  have a cost                                                               
and design issue.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He  explained  that retrofitting  the  old  ships would  cost  $5                                                               
million, which is  a low estimate, and exempting  the three newer                                                               
ships could  accommodate the  state's current  budgetary strains.                                                               
No  visible impact  from  this exemption  have  been seen  around                                                               
Southeast  waters, and  his  office has  not  had any  complaints                                                               
about discharges from the AMHS at all.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:56:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN said  the smaller  cruise ships  are concerning,                                                               
but  even  bringing those  into  compliance  interferes with  the                                                               
stability of the ships while the  costs go way up. Information he                                                               
has indicates that amortizing those  costs is difficult. Besides,                                                               
they haven't had  a lot of complaints or issues  from the smaller                                                               
cruise ships either.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:57:16 PM                                                                                                                    
The other  portion of the  bill is the well-intended  law dealing                                                               
with art  work in buildings.  But that requirement with  the AMHS                                                               
vessels  that will  be retiring  - one  is in  the news  today if                                                               
anybody wants  it for free  - could be  dealt with by  taking art                                                               
out of the old  ships and putting it into the  new ones. It could                                                               
save $1-2 million per ship.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:58:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN  said cruise ship  discharges is not a  new issue                                                               
and most are familiar with it.  The most contentious part of that                                                               
issue doesn't  apply to  this bill, which  just keeps  the status                                                               
quo. He  encouraged support saying that  representatives from the                                                               
Department  of Environmental  Conservation (DEC)  and AMHS  could                                                               
provide details.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:59:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL asked  if  the retroactivity  goes  back to  the                                                               
original requirements and if there is no sunset date.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  answered his understanding  is that there  is no                                                               
sunset  date,  and  one  isn't necessary,  because  the  two  new                                                               
ferries are probably  going to last 50 years and  the other small                                                               
cruise ships  will be operating  in Alaska's waters  for decades.                                                               
They must  also comply  with best  management practices  that DEC                                                               
has tightened  up. So, the industry  is not getting a  free ride,                                                               
by any means. This is one reason there aren't many complaints.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:01:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MEYER asked when this sunseted.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN answered January 1, 2016.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MEYER asked what has been happening during this year.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  said Alaska has very  law-abiding marine-related                                                               
businesses, but  they just unintentionally ran  past the deadline                                                               
and  are catching  up  now,  but DEC  and  Marine Highways  could                                                               
better answer that.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:03:09 PM                                                                                                                    
MICHELLE  HALE,  Director,  Division   of  Water,  Department  of                                                               
Environmental  Conservation (DEC),  introduced  herself and  said                                                               
Ben White is the Cruise  Ship Program Manager within the Division                                                               
of Water and has the technical expertise in this area.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:03:36 PM                                                                                                                    
BEN  WHITE,  Manager, Cruise  Ship  Program,  Division of  Water,                                                               
Department  of   Environmental  Conservation   (DEC),  Anchorage,                                                               
Alaska, explained that since January  2016 they have been working                                                               
with both AMHS  and small vessel operators  to continue operating                                                               
as they  have. A lot  of the  best management practice  plans are                                                               
good for  five years, and  a large  majority of the  vessels have                                                               
been covered  under an already-approved  plan. The  newer vessels                                                               
were  asked to  submit a  best management  practices plan,  which                                                               
they  have  done. He  has  reviewed  them and  offered  technical                                                               
expertise, but they are not approved plans.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL said  it looks like a five-year plan  is going to                                                               
be required  and asked  how much  time it  takes for  the smaller                                                               
vessels to go through that process.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE  answered that regulations in  18 AAC 69 spell  out the                                                               
best management  practices plan requirements. Currently,  they go                                                               
through  registration first.  Then vessel  operators will  submit                                                               
vessel-specific  sampling  and  best management  practices  plans                                                               
simultaneously.  The  requirements  outline  everything  from  an                                                               
engineer's  report  to  explaining  when  the  sampling  will  be                                                               
conducted. These  typically take  the smaller operators  a little                                                               
bit of  time to develop,  because they  don't have the  staff and                                                               
resources  that  the  larger commercial  vessels  have,  and  the                                                               
larger cruise  ships don't  have the  expertise in-house,  so DEC                                                               
staff  engineers  assist  them  in  developing  their  plans.  It                                                               
typically  takes  a  month  of   back  and  forth  to  get  these                                                               
developed.  Once they  are in  place, the  department works  with                                                               
them, and if  there are updates to the system  due to poor sample                                                               
results the plan will be modified as they go along.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL  said that was  a good answer,  because sometimes                                                               
it takes three years to renew a five-year permit.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:06:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  referenced language  on page 3,  sections 5                                                               
and 6, and asked how much  sewage is being discharged into marine                                                               
waters on average.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE  answered that a  table was provided  that demonstrates                                                               
the average discharges.  A lot of water  conservation takes place                                                               
on the smaller vessels, so their discharges are less.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI noted  11,619 gallons  daily, and  asked to                                                               
what level that water is treated.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WHITE answered  processing  and treatment  of  the water  is                                                               
still  required. Most  vessels have  installed marine  sanitation                                                               
devices that have to meet  certain standards and are certified by                                                               
the  Coast Guard.  The discharge  levels and  limits are  tied in                                                               
with  the Environmental  Protection  Agency  (EPA) water  quality                                                               
standards.  These marine  sanitation devices  get certified  when                                                               
they  are  installed  at  the federal  level.  Then  the  program                                                               
monitors  them to  make  sure  that they  are  still meeting  and                                                               
performing at acceptable levels.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:09:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked  what chemicals are used  to treat the                                                               
water that also get released into the marine waters.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WHITE  replied  that  some have  a  biological  system  that                                                               
performs  more like  a  septic  tank and  some  are treated  with                                                               
chlorine, but  the program  monitors for that  so there  isn't an                                                               
additional load of chlorine going into the system.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked what would be  a comparable allowable                                                               
number of  suspended solids or  fecal coliform count  in drinking                                                               
water, for instance.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HALE answered  that it's  not appropriate  to compare  waste                                                               
water  standards with  drinking water  standards. For  a drinking                                                               
water  sample, the  limit for  coliforms  is zero.  The water  is                                                               
being  treated for  completely different  purposes. These  waters                                                               
discharged into a  marine environment and not into  an area where                                                               
anyone will be drinking the water.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:11:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said  that an exception is  being made under                                                               
section 5  that says a person  may not discharge sewage  that has                                                               
suspended solids greater than 150  milligrams, but that limit can                                                               
be exceeded.  He asked  what limits  they allowed to  go to  on a                                                               
milligrams per liter of fecal coliform basis.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE answered  that these are the limits in  place and ships                                                               
are not allowed to go  above them, but equipment has limitations,                                                               
which  is  why the  program  monitors  the activities.  If  these                                                               
standards  are exceeded  they work  with  the operators,  whether                                                               
it's AHMS  or the small  commercial passenger vessels,  to figure                                                               
out  the problem.  Many times  they  conduct additional  sampling                                                               
after the system  has been modified and the count  will drop back                                                               
down to acceptable standards.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  said  under   existing  law  a  commercial                                                               
passenger  vessel  cannot  dump  an excess  of  suspended  solids                                                               
greater than  150 milligrams into  marine waters, but  sections 5                                                               
and 6 of this  bill would amend that to allow a  plan for a small                                                               
commercial passenger  vessel approved under AS  46.03.462(k), and                                                               
he is trying to figure out  the maximum level of suspended solids                                                               
DEC would approve.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:13:26 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. HALE answered  the best practices management  plans that will                                                               
be a result  of this legislation will be detailed  plans for each                                                               
ship addressing  how that  ship can  operate optimally  to reduce                                                               
the levels as  much as possible. The plan, itself,  does not have                                                               
limits, but staff monitors the  sampling and the operation of the                                                               
systems  on those  vessels very  closely, and  work very  closely                                                               
with  the operators  on an  ongoing  basis to  continue to  drive                                                               
those levels  down. The website  and their packets have  a report                                                               
of sampling  results from 2016  as well  as on their  cruise ship                                                               
website, and  those provide an idea  of what kinds of  levels are                                                               
being seen in these samples.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL pointed  out that five pages of  detailed charts on                                                               
levels were in their packets.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked how  frequently they check vessels' waste                                                               
water.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE answered  their staff consists of four  people who work                                                               
hard during  the cruise  ship season.  They spend  a lot  of time                                                               
reviewing  and inspecting  and try  to  look at  every vessel  at                                                               
least once  a year. In  some cases,  they will observe  them more                                                               
than once  a year depending  on past  performance, responsiveness                                                               
to questions, and their willingness to work with them.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  VON IMHOF  asked  if  it is  a  prearranged  visit or  a                                                               
surprise.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE replied that most of  the time the vessels are notified                                                               
when they will ask permission to  board be boarded. He added that                                                               
this  program has  been  fairly successful  just  because of  the                                                               
responsiveness  of  the  small  vessel  operators  that  are  not                                                               
foreign flagged like  some of the larger ships.  It's just timing                                                               
for  them  and they  try  to  not be  a  burden  to their  normal                                                               
operations.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:16:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL said  the discharge standards were  imposed in 2006                                                               
and she understands and this  exemption for the small vessels has                                                               
been in place the whole time.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE said  that was correct the exemption  is from obtaining                                                               
a permit.  So, they have data  for 10 years in  which improvement                                                               
is seen.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL said while they  are exempted from getting a permit                                                               
they are not exempt from his monitoring program.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE said that was correct.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:18:05 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  said  the  statute sets  a  limit  of  150                                                               
milligrams per liter of fecal  coliform and there are comparables                                                               
for the  City and  Borough of  Juneau, an  Olympic-sized swimming                                                               
pool,  and a  large cruise  ship, and  asked what  fecal coliform                                                               
levels are allowed by a large cruise ship, for example.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE answered that the same  statute sets out the limits for                                                               
large vessels, as well.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said 150 milligrams.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE said yes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  referred  to  page  7  and  said  the  M/V                                                               
Columbia has a  fecal coliform number of 64  milligrams, but then                                                               
the Matanuska has  170,000 milligrams, and asked if  that was per                                                               
liter.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:19:02 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. HALE explained the units  for fecal coliform bacteria are per                                                               
100   milliliters.  What   Senator  Wielechowski   sees  is   the                                                               
variability  they  were  talking  about. When  staff  receives  a                                                               
result  that  is  high  like  that 170,000  they  work  with  the                                                               
operator -  usually the operator will  call them right away  - to                                                               
try to make tweak the operation  and maintenance of the system to                                                               
improve those  numbers. They have seen  average results decreased                                                               
by  something  like 90  percent  in  fecal coliform  specifically                                                               
since 2004.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:20:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI said  the M/V  Matanuska has  one count  of                                                               
8,900 and one of 2,100,000 and asked if that is raw sewage.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HALE  answered no.  These  systems  are very  variable,  and                                                               
operations  on  the  cruise  ships  and  ferries  are  also  very                                                               
variable.  So, it  really  depends on  what is  going  on in  the                                                               
moment on  the ships. The  Best Management Practices  Program has                                                               
worked very hard  with the operators of the ships  to reduce that                                                               
variability.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  said he was  just trying to  understand how                                                               
the Best  Management Practices  Process works  and how  the plans                                                               
are established,  because the department has  a tremendous amount                                                               
of authority. If  you see a ship with 100,000  times the limit do                                                               
you mandate  that they  lower the fecal  coliform levels  or fine                                                               
them or what do you do, he asked.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:21:26 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. HALE  answered that  the whole point  of the  Best Management                                                               
Practices Program  and the plans is  continuous improvement. They                                                               
work  very closely  with all  the operators,  and typically  when                                                               
there is a  high result, maintenance is  conducted and operations                                                               
are  improved; then  a  resample is  taken.  Typically, they  see                                                               
vastly reduced levels, but it is an ongoing process.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  referred to  the average result  of 212,000                                                               
on page 7  and asked when they were taken.  He remarked that some                                                               
tests are  within the limits,  but some are  also "astronomically                                                               
higher,"  and he  wanted  some assurance  that  progress will  be                                                               
made. Does she have secondary tests that show decreases?                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE  answered the dates on  the far left-hand side  of that                                                               
table indicate when those samples  were taken. They work with the                                                               
small vessel  operators and  either the  analysis of  the results                                                               
isn't  available  yet  or  in  some cases  they  will  allow  the                                                               
operator to  do what is  best for  their equipment and  then test                                                               
them when  they come back  the following  year to see  if efforts                                                               
have improved the system.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:23:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL asked where the 150 limit came from.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HALE answered  is an  EPA standard,  and it  is used  by the                                                               
Coast Guard in its regulations.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL  referred to page  7 and  said the Matanuska  had a                                                               
level of  170,000 on 7/20/16,  but then  on August 15,  2016, the                                                               
number was down to 8,900. She  asked if that reflects a retesting                                                               
and improvement.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HALE replied  that  is  correct and  that  is  what is  seen                                                               
frequently as they work with these vessels.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  noted that  the M/V Chichigof  Dream tested                                                               
2,100,000 on  7/31, but then  a month later  and the test  was at                                                               
zero. Obviously,  they are capable  of getting to zero,  he said.                                                               
If  it's  totally discretionary  and  no  penalties involved,  he                                                               
asked why the state wouldn't want stricter standards.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. HALE  answered they always  want improvement and  they always                                                               
want  the  best water  quality  coming  from these  effluents  as                                                               
possible. The purpose  of the Best Management  Practices Plan and                                                               
Process  is to  continually encourage  that improvement.  Results                                                               
reflect that  when there are  high values  - and this  happens in                                                               
other industries  as well  - the industry  is very  responsive to                                                               
those values.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked what causes the big variability.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:26:29 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. HALE explained that waste  water treatment systems are living                                                               
organisms and they respond to  conditions in the environment. So,                                                               
small  changes  can  sometimes  create  a  large  variability  in                                                               
results.  Again, the  purpose of  the  Best Management  Practices                                                               
Plan and  Process is  to continually work  with the  operators of                                                               
the system with the way  those systems are operated. They respond                                                               
to changes in  what comes into the system and  then what is going                                                               
on in the vessel.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL thanked her and invited DOTPF to come forward.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:27:34 PM                                                                                                                    
CAPTAIN   MIKE  NEUSSL,   Deputy   Commissioner,  Department   of                                                               
Transportation  and Public  Facilities  (DOTPF), Juneau,  Alaska,                                                               
said  he oversees  the Alaska  Marine Highway  System (AMHS)  and                                                               
supported SB 3.  They worked very closely with  the Department of                                                               
Environmental   Conservation   (DEC)  that   includes   training,                                                               
monitoring   their  systems,   feedback  on   the  results,   and                                                               
corrective activities  on those  results. Another reason  for the                                                               
spike  in  numbers that  Senator  Wielechowski  was referring  to                                                               
could relate  to the footnote, which  says that the hull  time or                                                               
temperatures were  exceeded on a local  result. If a test  is not                                                               
done properly  or it sits too  long, it can get  worse with time.                                                               
So, you  could have  a bad  sample. When DEC  gets the  report on                                                               
that,  immediate action  is taken  to correct  the problem,  it's                                                               
retested,  and perhaps  a much  lower number  results immediately                                                               
after  that.  There are  a  variety  of  reasons for  getting  an                                                               
outrageous looking number on these samples.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:29:11 PM                                                                                                                    
He  said the  AMHS operates  a fleet  of old  ships, but  not old                                                               
marine  sanitation devices  on  those  ships. Continual  upgrades                                                               
have  been  done  as  part   of  the  Best  Management  Practices                                                               
exemptions working with DEC. Of the  five ships in the AMHS fleet                                                               
this  applies to,  all have  had a  major upgrade  in the  marine                                                               
sanitation treatments systems between 2009 and 2011.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  NEUSSL noted  that this  measure reinstates  an existing                                                               
regulation that has been in place  for 10 years and it has worked                                                               
well for that 10 years.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:30:16 PM                                                                                                                    
Vessels are  very cognizant  of their  discharges and  know where                                                               
no-discharge zones are and don't  discharge in port. Ships' crews                                                               
are trained to monitor that.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NEUSSL corrected  two things; one, that  this regulation does                                                               
not apply to the Alaska-class  ferries that are being built. Many                                                               
of  the small  vessels in  the AMHS  fleet including  the Alaska-                                                               
class  ferries are  no-discharge vessels  and collect  their grey                                                               
water  and black  water  onboard  in holding  tanks  and pump  it                                                               
ashore,  and  it  gets  treated  through  municipal  waste  water                                                               
treatment facilities.  The fast  ferries -  the M/V  Chenega, the                                                               
M/V Fairweather, the  M/V LeConte, and the M/V Aurora  - all pump                                                               
ashore.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The other factor  is that the M/V  Tustumena's replacement vessel                                                               
as  designed  will fall  under  these  requirements; the  current                                                               
Tustumena  does not  have enough  overnight accommodations  to be                                                               
held  to the  standard.  The replacement  vessel  is an  enhanced                                                               
capability  vessel  that will  meet  that  standard of  50  lower                                                               
berths in the staterooms for passengers.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:31:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if it  is expensive to install holding                                                               
capacity  in existing  ships so  waste  water can  be dumped  on-                                                               
shore.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. NEUSSL  answered that is  not practical for the  M/V Columbia                                                               
and the M/V Malaspina that go  all the way down to Bellingham and                                                               
back, a  two-and-a-half day journey.  It is not possible  to hold                                                               
that  much  waste   water  onboard.  It  needs   to  be  treated,                                                               
processed, and discharged overboard.  Smaller vessels on day runs                                                               
out and back can connect and pump ashore.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said  he assumed that a huge  portion of the                                                               
run to Bellingham  is not in state waters and  asked if the waste                                                               
water is dumped in international or Washington State waters?                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NEUSSL  allowed that  the rules  are continually  changing on                                                               
that. AMHS doesn't  travel in international waters;  they run the                                                               
Inside Passage  the whole way  and they are allowed  to discharge                                                               
in  Canadian internal  waters.  The entirety  of  Puget Sound  is                                                               
under  consideration now  to become  a no-discharge  zone. Having                                                               
been advised of that potential,  they looked at their vessels and                                                               
found that they  have enough capacity to hold the  grey and black                                                               
water produced  by the vessel on  board to get into  and back out                                                               
of port  before they start  processing and discharging.  So, that                                                               
type of restriction can be  accommodated. Certain areas in Alaska                                                               
near  fisheries  and  critical  habitat  areas  are  no-discharge                                                               
zones, so  they do  have some limited  holding capacity,  but not                                                               
enough for the entire voyage.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:33:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI remembered  reading some  months ago  about                                                               
fish  getting tested  in Puget  Sound  and salmon  having a  huge                                                               
percent  of drugs  like  Prozac in  them. He  asked  if the  AMHS                                                               
discharges are tested for drugs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE  answered no;  they don't  test for  things not  on the                                                               
list   of  standard   items  to   test  for.   But  as   the  DEC                                                               
representative  said, some  systems  use chlorine  and there  are                                                               
instances of  strange things coming  up in vessel samples.  It is                                                               
good to catch them and trace them back and correct that problem.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:34:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL asked  him to describe the  collection process that                                                               
might skew sample results.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. NEUSSL  replied that  sampling of waste  water systems  has a                                                               
rigid procedure. The  sample might need to be  refrigerated so it                                                               
doesn't continue  to grow  and multiply colonies  by the  time it                                                               
gets to the lab to be tested,  for instance. The AMHS has a full-                                                               
time environmental officer on staff  that pays attention to these                                                               
types of things, along with  air emissions and other elements for                                                               
compliance.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:35:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  HUGHES said  the fiscal  note estimates  a $3.9  million                                                               
savings by not spending 1 percent  for art and asked if that $3.9                                                               
million will be  spent for other things or will  it actually be a                                                               
savings.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. NEUSSL  answered that the  construction contract for  the two                                                               
Alaska-class ferries being  built in Ketchikan right  now was for                                                               
$101 million. So,  technically by the statute, 1  percent of that                                                               
would  have to  be  set aside  for art  work  for those  vessels.                                                               
However, there won't  be a savings of $1.01 million  if this bill                                                               
is enacted,  because those vessels  are under-funded. As  part of                                                               
the effort  to keep the  construction costs within  the allowable                                                               
budget,  concessions were  made. Items  like life-saving  slides,                                                               
radars,  and some  other  essential equipment  to  have the  ship                                                               
functional were listed as state-furnished  equipment to be funded                                                               
from other  sources and provided to  the construction contractor.                                                               
So, the exemption of these  particular vessels from the 1 percent                                                               
for art requirement would allow that  money to be used to provide                                                               
the necessary equipment.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGHES said she thought it  was just good common sense to                                                               
use art work from the old ferries that will be retired.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. NEUSSL added  that the M/V Taku artwork  has been inventoried                                                               
and is in climate-controlled storage  with the intention of using                                                               
it on the new Alaska-class ferries.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL asked  what the cost would be to  the fleet without                                                               
this exemption for the waste water.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:38:45 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. NEUSSL  replied that  the cost  is based on  a 2009  study to                                                               
install an advanced waste water  treatment system on the M/V Taku                                                               
that would  meet the  large cruise  ship discharge  standards and                                                               
the estimate  was $1.25 million.  A lot  of factors go  into that                                                               
cost.  It will  cost  more  today, and  other  vessels will  have                                                               
structural  differences, but  potentially the  most expensive  is                                                               
the fact that an advanced  waste water treatment system necessary                                                               
to achieve  the much higher standards  is a much larger  piece of                                                               
equipment and it might not  physically fit the space available on                                                               
the ships. However, detailed studies  had not been done on those.                                                               
When these ships  came on line in 1963 the  regulations were much                                                               
less stringent.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL stated she would hold  SB 3 in committee for future                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Alaskas Oil and Gas Competitiveness Report 2017 (FINAL).pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
Oil and Gas
SB3 - Version J.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - Sponsor Statement.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - Sectional Analysis.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3- Fiscal Note-DEC-WATER-2-1-17.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3- Fiscal Note-DOTPF-2-1-17.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - Small Vessel Discharge Bill FAQs 1.3.2017.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - Discharge Volume Comparison Chart.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - Environmental Compliance Info Sheet.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - FINAL Small Ship 2016 Sampling Report 1-3-17.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - Herring_N_SE.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SB3 - Herring_S_SE.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
SB 3
SRES-DOR Letter to Senator Giessel - 02.06.17.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM
Oil and Gas
DOR Response Letter to the Senate Resources Committee - 2.21.17.pdf SRES 2/1/2017 3:30:00 PM