Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Immediately Following Session --
Scheduled But Not Heard
Moved SB 252 Out of Committee
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
               SB 235-SCHOOL PERFORMANCE BONUSES                                                                            
CHAIR DYSON announced SB 235 to be up for consideration.                                                                        
2:30:18 PM                                                                                                                  
ROGER SAMPSON,  Commissioner, Department  of Education  and Early                                                               
Development  (DEED),  presented  the  public  school  performance                                                               
incentive program in  SB 235, saying it is  designed to maximize,                                                               
intensify  and  dramatically   increase  achievement  in  Alaska.                                                               
Lauding its innovation,  he said it's based on a  number of other                                                               
states' experiences.   It aims to create an  environment in which                                                               
a  school, as  a  whole, can  focus on  the  individual needs  of                                                               
students  and  increase  student achievement  beyond  one  year's                                                               
worth of  growth.  Based  on growth, not a  predetermined target,                                                               
it  includes all  staff regardless  of teaching  certificates and                                                               
thus includes  secretaries and custodians,  for example,  as well                                                               
as the  administration of  the building,  such as  the principal,                                                               
vice principal and counselors.                                                                                                  
CHAIR  DYSON offered  his  belief that  it  wouldn't include  the                                                               
administration of a district.                                                                                                   
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON  clarified  that it  specifically  excludes                                                               
superintendents.   He said this program  uses annual school-based                                                               
assessments  conducted  each  spring  and  developed  around  the                                                               
student-performance   standards    in   reading,    writing   and                                                               
mathematics, as well as the  Grade Level Expectations (GLEs) that                                                               
further define the standards.                                                                                                   
2:32:22 PM                                                                                                                  
COMMISSIONER   SAMPSON  discussed   recognition  of   outstanding                                                               
performance and  strategies used  by a  school as  a whole  - not                                                               
asking  teachers and  employees to  work harder  necessarily, but                                                               
providing an  incentive to work differently  and smarter, looking                                                               
at  results.    This  bill  aims  to  stimulate  the  educational                                                               
community  to   look  at  innovative  practices   and  successful                                                               
principles,  such  as  this [bonus  program],  from  the  private                                                               
sector.   Noting that one strategy  won't work for all  500 or so                                                               
Alaskan  schools,  he  emphasized  capturing  the  longevity  and                                                               
expertise  that exists  in both  the  certified and  noncertified                                                               
staff in many communities.                                                                                                      
2:34:15 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON called this a  no-risk program for the State                                                               
of Alaska.   The compensation has been determined  ahead of time;                                                               
if  desired results  aren't achieved,  there  is no  cost to  the                                                               
state.   It  will help  increase the  number and  preparedness of                                                               
students leaving school ready to  enter the workforce, he opined,                                                               
and will help  make the state competitive  in recruiting teachers                                                               
nationwide and then retaining them.   He said this model is about                                                               
collaboration,  effective instruction  and  using  data to  drive                                                               
what is  done for  the individual  needs of  kids.   He discussed                                                               
spreading   the  responsibility   for  helping   students  attain                                                               
proficiency in reading, writing and mathematics.                                                                                
2:35:52 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON explained  that most  states don't  measure                                                               
growth among students, but look  at predetermined targets.  Under                                                               
this  program,  he  asserted,  students  of  all  abilities  will                                                               
continue  to  grow,  with  clear   targets  for  each  individual                                                               
student.    The  bill  also  provides  a  tool  to  evaluate  the                                                               
effectiveness   and  performance   of  Alaska's   schools.     He                                                               
emphasized the  desire to  engage every student  and to  meet the                                                               
needs of  those students and  evaluate whether there is  a return                                                               
on  the investment  in  education.   He  surmised that  measuring                                                               
growth would positively affect the  dropout and graduation rates.                                                               
The one-on-one attention  and having their needs  met will change                                                               
students'  motivation to  stay in  school, and  will change  what                                                               
they do once they leave school.                                                                                                 
2:38:08 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON touched  on how  to measure  growth to  see                                                               
whether the  incentive has  been earned  by a  particular school.                                                               
He presented  a scenario  that compares  how Student  A did  in a                                                               
given year, compared with a  previous year.  He mentioned looking                                                               
at different  ways to group  the students, whether  by ethnicity,                                                               
socioeconomic status  or another  means, to  make sure  nobody is                                                               
left behind when looking at  whether the school showed the growth                                                               
necessary to earn the incentive.                                                                                                
He turned  to how  this differs  from the  federal No  Child Left                                                               
Behind Act (NCLB),  which looks at a group of  kids who come into                                                               
the  third  grade, compared  with  those  from a  previous  year.                                                               
While that appears  to work well statistically  in large schools,                                                               
Commissioner  Sampson said  it's  problematic  in small  schools,                                                               
which are numerous in Alaska,  and for transient populations that                                                               
move within a  state.  Measuring individual  growth also provides                                                               
information to parents, allowing  them more meaningful engagement                                                               
with teachers, principals and others who work at the school.                                                                    
2:40:01 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON turned  to page 7 of a  handout in committee                                                               
packets,  a  "value  table"  that  ties  into  the  core  of  the                                                               
legislation.     He  mentioned  working  in   great  detail  with                                                               
psychometricians  and  statisticians  to ensure  the  fields  are                                                               
level  among schools,  whether large  or small,  urban or  rural,                                                               
containing high-  or low-performing students, having  high or low                                                               
populations  of students  with  disabilities and  so  forth.   He                                                               
expressed the desire to eliminate  any disadvantage to being in a                                                               
school  with a  certain  population.   Acknowledging that  people                                                               
want to  move to  different schools  already, he  emphasized that                                                               
the value table  was designed carefully to allow  all schools and                                                               
staffs to have an "even, fair chance at the targets."                                                                           
2:42:53 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON   addressed  the  next  component   in  the                                                               
handout, a  "computing index"  that takes an  example of  a small                                                               
Alaskan  school and  uses performance  data  to articulate  clear                                                               
statistical gains.   He said the  crux of the program  is to move                                                               
individual  students to  a higher  performance  level, no  matter                                                               
what the beginning level was.                                                                                                   
2:46:05 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON asked why a  student who slides backwards would get                                                               
any points.                                                                                                                     
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON responded  that a  score of  100 represents                                                               
one year's  worth of growth,  the expected amount; a  student who                                                               
goes backwards  would get  less than 100.   He  acknowledged more                                                               
credit  is given  for growth  at  certain points.   For  example,                                                               
there  has  been  a  judgment  that  getting  to  proficiency  is                                                               
important.  Thus the only place  that credit would be given is if                                                               
a  student advanced  and then  moved back  to "proficient";  that                                                               
student  would  still receive  credit  for  one year's  worth  of                                                               
growth.  The  rationale comes from the  psychometricians, who say                                                               
advanced  students, when  at the  very top  level of  any system,                                                               
often fluctuate between advanced and  proficient.  While a school                                                               
isn't  penalized for  that phenomenon,  it also  isn't given  any                                                               
credit for it.                                                                                                                  
SENATOR  ELTON asked  why more  points are  given for  going from                                                               
proficient to advanced, compared with  points taken away when the                                                               
reverse occurs.                                                                                                                 
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON answered  that moving  the first  time from                                                               
proficient  to  advanced  is  a  true  sign  of  growth,  whereas                                                               
bouncing  back   and  forth  or   regressing  from   advanced  to                                                               
proficient  is   a  phenomenon  that   may  not   necessarily  be                                                               
controlled by the quality of instruction.                                                                                       
SENATOR ELTON said  that accounts for the first  time the student                                                               
moves forward, but noted that  30 points are given for advancing,                                                               
but 10 points are deducted for going back.                                                                                      
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON deferred to Mr. Morse.                                                                                     
2:50:35 PM                                                                                                                    
LES  MORSE, Director,  Assessment and  Accountability, Department                                                               
of Education  and Early Development,  answered that if  a student                                                               
moves from  proficient to advanced, most  likely some instruction                                                               
has  affected  that.   For  a  number  of  students who  go  from                                                               
advanced to proficient, it is  just because the student is moving                                                               
toward the center.                                                                                                              
SENATOR  WILKEN   referred  to  the  value   table,  asking  what                                                               
components are measured and how they are weighted.                                                                              
MR. MORSE  answered that in  terms of  testing, it would  be done                                                               
using  standards-based   assessments  for  mathematics   and  for                                                               
language arts, which is a combination of reading and writing.                                                                   
SENATOR WILKEN asked whether a  school's results are based solely                                                               
on test scores.                                                                                                                 
MR. MORSE said yes, under this program.                                                                                         
SENATOR WILKEN asked about attendance and other measurables.                                                                    
MR.  MORSE emphasized  that this  program just  looks at  growth.                                                               
Other   components  are   measured  when   making  accountability                                                               
decisions with regard to schools.                                                                                               
2:53:51 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WILKEN   asked  how   often  the   new  test   would  be                                                               
MR. MORSE  answered that it  has been administered once;  it will                                                               
be administered again in the spring.                                                                                            
SENATOR WILKEN  asked whether  it would be  wise to  measure more                                                               
often in order  to have the variations even out  over time, since                                                               
the test is new.                                                                                                                
MR.  MORSE agreed  it is  a  new test,  but  said it  is a  valid                                                               
measure.   He  acknowledged the  importance of  doing reliability                                                               
and validity  studies.   While rewards would  be based  this year                                                               
relative to  the previous  year, long-term  trends also  would be                                                               
looked  at  to  ensure  that   the  value  chart  is  established                                                               
appropriately.   Thus  there might  be  some need  to adjust  the                                                               
value  chart through  regulation.   However, judgments  this year                                                               
should be made  relative to the previous year; as  more years are                                                               
used,  more students  are  lost  with regard  to  the ability  to                                                               
measure  their performance,  since some  might not  have been  in                                                               
Alaska two years previously, for instance.                                                                                      
2:55:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN questioned  the validity of the  first test given,                                                               
which had mechanical problems  that affected student performance.                                                               
Although very  much in favor  of the concept, he  suggested there                                                               
is risk  to the state  if what  is implemented is  detrimental to                                                               
the efforts of those trying to  move ahead.  He expressed concern                                                               
that people would  lose confidence in the  baseline against which                                                               
to measure performance.                                                                                                         
2:57:17 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON said  he shared that concern.   He indicated                                                               
DEED  had taken  extensive measures,  after the  first test  last                                                               
spring, to  try to  analyze the  impact of  some of  the material                                                               
errors,  but had  seen no  evidence "from  a variety  of sources"                                                               
that indicated  there would be  a significant impact on  how well                                                               
the students  did.   He noted  there would be  a second  year [of                                                               
testing] this  coming May, from  which there'd be  comparison and                                                               
establishment of  a baseline.   Employees at schools  would first                                                               
be impacted  the following year,  at which time there'd  be three                                                               
years  of data.   He  expressed  confidence that  each year  [the                                                               
department] would gain a better understanding of the situation.                                                                 
He agreed  that looking at  multiple years is the  best approach.                                                               
When  looking at  whether other  models had  been successful,  he                                                               
reported, the  attempt was to  take the best  characteristics and                                                               
eliminate the weaknesses.  They'd  looked at a multi-year concept                                                               
in order  to gain reliability;  however, because of  the mobility                                                               
of some  of the  students and  employees, there  was a  fear that                                                               
some of  the incentive would be  lost if this were  measured over                                                               
multiple years.                                                                                                                 
2:59:19 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  recalled discussion,  perhaps in  another committee,                                                               
about three  different kinds  of tests going  on nationally.   He                                                               
asked Mr. Morse  to relate what he'd discussed  with Wes [Keller,                                                               
staff to Chair Dyson].                                                                                                          
MR.  MORSE  reported that  Mr.  Keller  had  raised an  issue  of                                                               
yardsticks  to   measure  the  assessment.     There  were  three                                                               
different  independent studies  of the  yardstick being  used, by                                                               
out-of-state experts  and people  who work in  the state  but who                                                               
hadn't been  involved in development  of the  assessment program.                                                               
Mr. Morse noted  that, for the different measures  used to assess                                                               
students, those  don't really interact  with one another  for the                                                               
purposes of  this proposed  program, other  than when  looking at                                                               
the validity of a program.                                                                                                      
CHAIR DYSON  referred to Senator  Wilken's earlier question.   He                                                               
related   his  understanding   that  although   other  kinds   of                                                               
assessments are being  done, the department is going  to only use                                                               
one assessment for purposes of this incentive program.                                                                          
MR. MORSE agreed, clarifying that  the one assessment is based on                                                               
Alaska's standards that teachers use.   The other assessments are                                                               
used to  validate DEED's current  program and to compare  how the                                                               
students do in the other programs versus this program.                                                                          
CHAIR DYSON asked what "other programs" means.                                                                                  
MR. MORSE replied that there is  a "norm reference test" given to                                                               
two grade levels; students are looked  at with regard to how they                                                               
rank, which  this past year had  a very high -  over 90 percent -                                                               
correlation.   That's one tool.   A statewide assessment  is also                                                               
given;  it doesn't  provide results  by  individual student,  but                                                               
shows how  the state is  doing relative  to other states.   Those                                                               
are  then  looked at  to  see  how  students  are doing  on  them                                                               
compared  with how  they're doing  on this  assessment to  ensure                                                               
it's a valid tool and that students are performing similarly.                                                                   
3:03:28 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER   SAMPSON  clarified   that   only  one   assessment                                                               
instrument, given  to all students  in grades three  through ten,                                                               
would be used for this incentive program.                                                                                       
CHAIR DYSON offered his understanding  that some other assessment                                                               
instruments are given to some  students in order to validate what                                                               
is being done with all students.                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON affirmed that.                                                                                             
3:05:31 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON, in  response to  Senator Elton,  explained                                                               
that the [incentive program] only  looks at the previous year and                                                               
the  current year  to determine  growth.   In  response to  Chair                                                               
Dyson, he  clarified that there  would be no advantage  in having                                                               
all high-performing students in a school.                                                                                       
CHAIR DYSON remarked that he'd been  talking to parents in one of                                                               
the  only  elementary  schools  in  his  district  that  met  the                                                               
requirements of the federal NCLB  Act; apparently, a large number                                                               
of students have now transferred  into that school.  He suggested                                                               
in two or  three years those new, motivated  students could start                                                               
affecting the performance at the school.                                                                                        
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON   mentioned  calculating   adequate  yearly                                                               
progress (AYP).   With this proposed incentive  program, he said,                                                               
he  didn't  believe  it  would   affect  any  school  if  higher-                                                               
performance or transfer  students came in.   This program intends                                                               
to  look at  each  student,  regardless of  low,  medium or  high                                                               
3:08:27 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON commented that there  is a wonderful principal at the                                                               
school  he'd   mentioned,  and  teachers  with   vision  for  the                                                               
students,  producing the  very kind  of  environment he  imagined                                                               
Commissioner Sampson to be seeking.   He said parents are "voting                                                               
with their feet" to get their children into that school.                                                                        
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON  said Alaska  has  schools  that are  doing                                                               
things differently,  looking at  individual needs of  kids, using                                                               
data to drive their instruction,  engaging students and spreading                                                               
that responsibility  - they  are showing  true growth.   Agreeing                                                               
the desire is to replicate that,  he said the intent of SB 235 is                                                               
to   encourage   others,   through  monetary   compensation   and                                                               
recognition,  to find  out why  there  is success  at the  school                                                               
Chair  Dyson had  described,  for example.    He mentioned  using                                                               
different types  of resources - mainly  data - to meet  the needs                                                               
of the students in order to accelerate growth.                                                                                  
3:09:54 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON turned to page  10 of the computing index in                                                               
the handout.   He  explained that computing  the values  for each                                                               
student  from the  previous year  to the  current year  gives the                                                               
scores in  the points  column; adding that  and then  dividing by                                                               
the  number of  tested students  provides a  school index  score.                                                               
Page 11 shows  four identified performance levels.   It was found                                                               
that multiple  levels seem to  provide incentive in  the process.                                                               
A school  index score of  103 shows  a strong growth  level, with                                                               
other levels  labeled high, excellent  and outstanding.   Page 12                                                               
shows compensation given  for each level of  performance for both                                                               
certificated and  noncertificated employees.  The  trick with any                                                               
incentive program is  to find the threshold at which  the goal is                                                               
obtainable without being a giveaway, he added.                                                                                  
He  informed members  that many  states  are looking  at ways  to                                                               
increase   student  achievement   through  performance.     North                                                               
Carolina, which has  seen strong results and has  been working at                                                               
this for  more than a decade,  is the one Alaska  is most closely                                                               
modeled after, although  even that program "pits  one against the                                                               
other," he said.   He reiterated that the desire  is to take what                                                               
is best and incorporate it.                                                                                                     
3:12:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  referred to Texas  and asked whether  tying growth                                                               
index levels to  a point system might create an  incentive to get                                                               
rid of non-performing students.                                                                                                 
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON  reported  having  looked hard  at  such  a                                                               
possibility; he  doesn't believe that will  be the result.   If a                                                               
student is  in the system  for a  full academic year  and doesn't                                                               
achieve, the penalty is severe.   A school cannot focus on one or                                                               
two performance  areas and still  hit a compensation level.   For                                                               
example,  a school  couldn't take  just  the kids  who are  right                                                               
below  the "proficient"  level and  get  them up  to that  level.                                                               
Statistically,  all of  the performing  groups would  have to  be                                                               
SENATOR ELTON inquired about possibly  assigning a score of minus                                                               
20 if someone drops out, thus penalizing the school.                                                                            
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON   clarified  that  efforts  have   been  to                                                               
establish  components   over  which   the  school   has  control.                                                               
Although some  might argue  that there  is control  over students                                                               
who may  drop out,  he wouldn't  want to  see school  staff being                                                               
penalized  for something  over which  they  didn't have  control,                                                               
such as violence in the home.                                                                                                   
3:15:50 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON  turned to page  14, why other  models fail,                                                               
and noted that  up to 20 years of experience  had been looked at.                                                               
Reasons  for  failure included:    the  program wasn't  based  on                                                               
growth,  so  a  school  with low-performing  students  was  at  a                                                               
disadvantage;  targets  were  unrealistic; there  were  conflicts                                                               
among  staff,  and some  had  to  lose  for  others to  win;  the                                                               
programs  excluded administrators;  there  wasn't reliability  in                                                               
"the  instrument";  compensation   wasn't  sufficient  to  change                                                               
behavior;  or  whoever was  sponsoring  the  program didn't  have                                                               
sufficient commitment.   Thus in  creating Alaska's  model, those                                                               
components were considered.                                                                                                     
He concluded by  saying a baseline will be  established from this                                                               
year's  results.   Costs  will  vary  every  year because  it  is                                                               
unknown  how many  schools will  meet the  target.   He surmised,                                                               
however, that  if more schools  meet the target  than anticipated                                                               
in the  fiscal note,  everyone will  be happy  to deal  with that                                                               
3:18:19 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON observed  that there'd be no fiscal  impact the first                                                               
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON  concurred,  pointing out  that  the  first                                                               
payout would be in June of 2007.                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON  noted it is  like putting  in place a  contract with                                                               
the teachers.  If the legislature  refused to fund the rewards in                                                               
the  "out" years,  it would  be  breaking faith  with the  people                                                               
who'd given  of themselves to  increase growth for  the students.                                                               
It requires  a good-faith  commitment.  He  asked how  long North                                                               
Carolina has been doing this.                                                                                                   
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON said since 1996, to his belief.                                                                            
CHAIR  DYSON  asked about  data  that  quantifies savings  there,                                                               
since  those  students  might  require  less  remedial  work  for                                                               
college or have a smaller impact on the social support system.                                                                  
COMMISSIONER SAMPSON answered that there  is some data from North                                                               
Carolina,  which  has seen  an  increase  in student  achievement                                                               
since  the program  began.   He didn't  have the  data with  him,                                                               
3:20:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WILKEN referred  to an  overview  given by  Commissioner                                                               
Sampson.   He remarked that  if everyone isn't confident  in what                                                               
happens, this  will fall  apart quickly and  require a  decade to                                                               
put back  together.  Noting that  he had to depart,  he said next                                                               
time he'd like to talk about  plans to "sell" the program and get                                                               
people to appreciate it.                                                                                                        
3:23:00 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  SAMPSON agreed  with the  concern about  the "small                                                               
target" and said he didn't want to miss this opportunity.                                                                       
CHAIR DYSON opened public testimony to two testifiers.                                                                          
MICHAEL  DICKENS, Ph.D.,  Superintendent,  Skagway City  Schools,                                                               
thanked Commissioner Sampson for  the innovative program.  Noting                                                               
problems over  the years with  teachers' salaries and  changes to                                                               
the retirement system, he complimented  Senators Wilken and Green                                                               
for trying  to meet those concerns.   He said the  bottom line is                                                               
that  teachers and  the  people in  the  building make  education                                                               
worthwhile   and  effective   for   students.     Talking   about                                                               
difficulties   when    recruiting   teachers    outside   Alaska,                                                               
Dr. Dickens  surmised  this incentive  program  would  help.   He                                                               
highlighted that  this program gets  all employees in  the school                                                               
going in  the same direction.   Expressing great support  for the                                                               
program, he  pointed out that  even in  high-performing districts                                                               
this  will require  motivation,  and it  won't penalize  teachers                                                               
whose students have traditionally performed well.                                                                               
3:29:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON  asked  whether   there  might  be  an  unintended                                                               
consequence of pressure on other  parts of the school that aren't                                                               
being tested, such as foreign languages.                                                                                        
3:30:39 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. DICKENS  replied that  he'd thought about  it.   He mentioned                                                               
positive outcomes in his school  district from a Foreign Language                                                               
Acquisition Program (FLAP)  grant.  He said he'd  been looking at                                                               
postdoctoral work  on brain research and  discovered many aspects                                                               
to engaging a  student in learning.  Important  types of learning                                                               
occur  when  students  are  exposed to  art,  music  and  foreign                                                               
language, or  when doing  scientific lab  work, for  instance; he                                                               
mentioned drama  and sports  activities as  well, and  looking at                                                               
what keeps  students in school  and motivated.  He  suggested the                                                               
real advantage  of this type  of program  is that it  expands who                                                               
3:33:55 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM  HARVEY,  Executive  Director, NEA-Alaska,  informed  members                                                               
that  he would  provide written  comments.   He pointed  out that                                                               
Commissioner  Sampson met  with  350 delegates  around the  state                                                               
this  past  weekend,  presenting   this  proposal  and  receiving                                                               
significant  feedback;   Mr.  Harvey  would  try   to  provide  a                                                               
compilation of  that feedback.   Commending  Commissioner Sampson                                                               
for his  research and for trying  to avoid the pitfalls  of plans                                                               
that  failed, Mr.  Harvey cautioned  that  booby traps  doubtless                                                               
remain,  including  hormonal  influences and  outside  influences                                                               
that change how a student performs on a test.                                                                                   
He agreed  with Senator Wilken  about hitting the target  and not                                                               
destroying  confidence.   North  Carolina's  system took  several                                                               
years  to develop,  and  the present  executive  director of  the                                                               
National Education  Association (NEA), John Wilson,  was director                                                               
of  the  North  Carolina  Association  of  Educators  when  then-                                                               
Governor Jim  Hunt started  the program;  for several  years, the                                                               
association and North Carolina state  government came together to                                                               
develop that plan.   The present federal  funding system requires                                                               
that the  state association participate  in developing  the plan,                                                               
Mr. Harvey said, an opportunity he'd welcome.                                                                                   
He  suggested  adequately  funding   the  base  services  of  the                                                               
educational   program.     He   highlighted   the  planning   and                                                               
implementing of innovative strategy,  saying it was achievable in                                                               
the  Chugiak  School District  because  of  its large  grant;  he                                                               
proposed looking  at that type  of program, using funds  from the                                                               
base   student  allocation,   to  improve   student  growth   and                                                               
CHAIR DYSON informed  Mr. Harvey that his  written comments would                                                               
be distributed after they were received.                                                                                        
3:38:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON remarked  that it  seems  there is  a belief  that                                                               
Alaska's schools aren't getting good  results because there is no                                                               
incentive program.  He said some  of the hardest working and most                                                               
underappreciated  people  in  Alaska  are those  working  in  the                                                               
3:40:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  requested that members relate  questions or concerns                                                               
to him  or Commissioner Sampson  as soon  as possible.   He noted                                                               
that many  members also sit  on the Senate Finance  Committee and                                                               
thus will see this legislation again.                                                                                           
SENATOR  ELTON  clarified  that   his  concern  is  about  others                                                               
affected by the  bill, including teachers and parents.   He asked                                                               
that those people,  who likely would be  more comfortable talking                                                               
about  the  concepts to  the  current  committee, be  given  that                                                               
CHAIR DYSON held SB 235 in committee.                                                                                           

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