Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/24/2003 01:30 PM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                                                                                                                              
          SB   2-PARENT LIABILITY FOR DAMAGE BY CHILD                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRED DYSON  called the Senate Health,  Education and Social                                                             
Services Standing  Committee meeting  to order  at 1:30  p.m. and                                                               
announced SB 2 to be  up for consideration. Present were Senators                                                               
Dyson, Guess, Davis and Wilken.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON,  sponsor, said he was  asked by at least  one school                                                               
district in the state to remove  the upper limit on the liability                                                               
of parents for malicious destruction  of school property by their                                                               
children. Presently, the limit is  $10,000 but, in several cases,                                                               
the cost of  damage has been higher than  that. Meanwhile, school                                                               
districts  are   already  stretched   to  meet   their  financial                                                               
obligations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CAROL  COMEAU,  Superintendent, Anchorage  School  District,                                                               
supported SB  2 and said  that the  penalties are very  minor for                                                               
the youth  that commit  these crimes. The  case about  the Dimond                                                               
High School  damage was  very high profile.  The court  awarded a                                                               
$158,000 judgment but it was reduced  to a total of $10,000 to be                                                               
split between  the two  juveniles. The bills  came in  at $70,000                                                               
and the district in the process  of trying to get a judgment from                                                               
the courts that is more in line with the actual costs.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The attitude  of the families  of youths  involved in two  out of                                                               
three cases is that they can't  know where their children are all                                                               
the time  and can't  be held  responsible for  what they  do. She                                                               
concluded:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     We  think  that's  the  wrong  message.  We  think  the                                                                    
     message is  damaging public facilities and  not holding                                                                    
     them accountable for the damage  takes money out of the                                                                    
     classroom and  takes money away from  the instructional                                                                    
     program and it sends the  wrong message to young people                                                                    
     that these are not acceptable acts.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LYDA GREEN arrived at 1:36 p.m.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAKE  METCALFE, Anchorage School  Board, supported SB  2. His                                                               
experience as  a prosecutor  leads him to  believe that  a higher                                                               
liability  limit could  have some  deterrent effects.  Last year,                                                               
about $300,000 worth of vandalism  was done. When that cost can't                                                               
be recovered,  the money  comes out  of the  district's operating                                                               
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked if the  minor's name is currently included in                                                               
the judgment.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. METCALFE replied that he  assumed that minors' names wouldn't                                                               
be used, but initials might be.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  DYSON  asked  him  if the  parents  could  get  bankruptcy                                                               
protection so that they would  not lose their homes, vehicles and                                                               
tools of their trade.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. METCALFE replied that he assumed so.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON  said he assumes the  judge would be willing  to work                                                               
out  some sort  of extended  payment  plan and  maybe the  school                                                               
district could live with that.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  METCALFE  responded that  he  thought  it  was the  type  of                                                               
situation where  they would work to  try and get as  much as they                                                               
could and settle it.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked  with the reference to  a homeowner's policy,                                                               
whether he was talking about the liability of the child.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. METCALFE replied  the parents [would be]  responsible for the                                                               
children.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  asked what  experience he had  with the  limits of                                                               
that kind of liability.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. METCALFE  replied not a  lot, adding that he  didn't practice                                                               
that kind of law.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN said  she thought it was limited  to children under                                                               
12 years of age.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GARY  WILKEN  said  he understood  the  purpose  of  the                                                               
legislation,  but he  was concerned  about collateral  damage and                                                               
gave the example of a middle  class family - husband and wife, 40                                                               
years  old, three  kids  - one  of them  goes  sideways and  does                                                               
something equal to the experience in Anchorage.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     We've got  to absolutely  knock some heads  and $10,000                                                                    
     isn't a head knocking  to me...but $100,000 or $150,000                                                                    
     that  puts in  jeopardy  their house,  their home,  the                                                                    
     other two  kids and the  family is trying to  get along                                                                    
     and that bothers me.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The  open-endedness  of the  legislation  concerned  him, but  he                                                               
thought they  might be able  to get  the same effect  without the                                                               
downside.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  DYSON  responded that  bankruptcy  laws  will protect  the                                                               
family from losing their home, the  tools of their business and a                                                               
vehicle.  He added,  "So  they're  not going  to  be  out in  the                                                               
street...."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS  said she didn't see any  reference to the                                                               
child in  the legislation and  whether the  child had any  or may                                                               
have  assets  in the  future.  She  asked  if that  omission  was                                                               
intentional.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON replied that he  didn't understand how minor children                                                               
could own  assets apart from  their parents. He  assumed whatever                                                               
the parents  could work out with  the child would be  up to them.                                                               
Under  the state  code, if  a parent  or a  legal guardian  of an                                                               
unemancipated minor under 18 has  that child run away and reports                                                               
him as a runaway, the parents are off the hook.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  asked if the child  could be named in  the future,                                                               
upon  adulthood.  She  didn't  think  that  would  be  cruel  and                                                               
unusual.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DEBBIE OSSIANDER,  President, Association  of Alaska  School                                                               
Boards (AASB),  said this  issue is  supported by  AASB's general                                                               
membership. Many  schools had experienced vandalism  in excess of                                                               
$10,000.   Mountain Village School,  for example, had a  fire set                                                               
to cover the theft of a  soda machine and the school burned down.                                                               
Costs resulting from actions like that are a serious concern.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARL  ROSE, Executive Director, Association  of Alaska School                                                               
Boards, supported SB  2. He explained that the  state has varying                                                               
levels of indemnification, but all  school districts are required                                                               
to have insurance. There are  issues of deductibles, however, and                                                               
the  Anchorage  [school district],  for  one,  has a  $1  million                                                               
deductible  insurance policy.  Almost anything  under that  comes                                                               
out of  their general  fund. In  1992-1996, rural  schools across                                                               
the  state claimed  $34 million  in  losses, including  a lot  of                                                               
vandalism. Any  large loss  has a large  impact on  the insurance                                                               
market.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON  said a question  came up about liability  for foster                                                               
parents and the law  is quite clear that as long  as the child is                                                               
a ward of the state, the parents incur no liability.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GUESS asked if the state would incur those expenses.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON answered yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GARY WILKEN  moved  to  pass SB  2  from committee  with                                                               
individual recommendations  and the  attached fiscal  note. There                                                               
were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                                       

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