Legislature(2021 - 2022)BARNES 124
03/01/2022 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION
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Audio | Topic |
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Start | |
HB322 | |
HB352 | |
Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ | HB 366 | TELECONFERENCED | |
+= | HB 322 | TELECONFERENCED | |
*+ | HB 352 | TELECONFERENCED | |
+ | TELECONFERENCED | ||
HB 352-CONSULT W/TRIBES TO RENAME GLENN HWY 1:32:35 PM CHAIR HOPKINS announced that the final order of business would be HB 352, "An Act requiring the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to establish a consultation process to rename the Glenn Highway." 1:33:16 PM REPRESENTATIVE ZACK FIELDS, Alaska State Legislature, as prime sponsor, introduced HB 352. He thanked the local historian, David Reamer, who brought the concept of HB 352 to his attention by informing him that the Glenn Highway had been named after Edwin Glenn, who had been convicted of a war crime. After researching the topic, he stated that he had come to the realization that renaming the road would be worth considering. He displayed slide 2 and referenced that Mr. Glenn was in the military and had explored Alaska in an expedition with Joseph Castner in the late 1890s. This exploration established the route of the present-day Glenn Highway. He noted that Joseph Castner was the actual person to establish the route, not Edwin Glenn. After this expedition, he noted that Mr. Glenn had been sent to the Philippines and participated in the Spanish-American War. In this role, Mr. Glenn was involved in torturing a local government official. For this Mr. Glenn was tried, convicted, and court martialed. He continued that in 1942 the Alaska Road Commission had renamed the Chickaloon Highway to the Glenn Highway. He noted that the Chickaloon Highway was named after a tribal community in the Matanuska Valley. He continued that he has conferred with local tribal governments concerning a more suitable name. He stated that the proposed legislation would set a path for tribal consultation to develop a new name. 1:37:49 PM REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY questioned whether Glennallen is also named after Edwin Glenn. REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS deferred the question to David Reamer. REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY noted the zero fiscal note and suggested there would be a fiscal note if the highway is renamed. He remarked that road signs and maps would need to be changed, and possibly the town name of Glennallen. He argued that to say the fiscal note is zero is misleading. REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS responded that HB 352 would not rename Glennallen; however, signs may need to be replaced. He stated that the proposed legislation would not address this point. REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY argued that if the proposed legislation changed the name of the road, the road signs would have to be changed. 1:39:22 PM CHAIR HOPKINS questioned whether the bill would change the signs. REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS deferred to the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT&PF) on the fiscal note. He stated that the bill would set up the process to rename the highway. 1:39:41 PM ANDY MILLS, Legislative Liaison, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, stated that the fiscal note represents the current language in HB 352. He stated that the fiscal note is this way because DOT&PF would be directed by the proposed legislation to establish a process for gathering input. In other words, this would be a consultation, and the fiscal note captures this. He added that DOT&PF gathers input all the time through different processes. He continued that the department often works in this capacity, and sometimes there are other efforts involved; however, in this case little administrative work is envisioned. In answering the question concerning signage, he estimated the signage along the highway, with other indirect costs, would be easily over $2 million. He allowed that this is just an evaluation in the central area, as there would also be the northern region to consider. He reiterated that the replacement of signs with a new name would be costly. He stated that there is not a comprehensive amount because the department would need specific language, and HB 352 only proposes a consultation. 1:41:34 PM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE stated that he has nothing against the idea because Mr. Glenn was a "bad guy," but he questioned renaming a highway without changing the signs. He referenced the large cost of this. 1:42:08 PM REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN expressed the opinion that the proposed legislation would lay out a consultation process, and renaming the highway is not an absolute foregone conclusion. She questioned whether the acceptance of a new name would need to come back to the legislature. She expressed the understanding that there is not a process in law for consultations concerning renaming public property. She questioned whether the fiscal note would be written after the authorization of the new name. MR. MILLS responded that if the highway were to be renamed, the legislature would have to produce a bill under Alaska Statute (AS) 35.40, just like any other renaming legislation. He pointed out the requirement that a road can only be named by law is in a different statute. He stated renaming the highway would have to come through a different piece of legislation in the context of AS 35.40. 1:44:22 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRONK suggested that the town of Glennallen was named after Edwin Glenn and Henry Allen. 1:44:41 PM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE expressed the opinion that the proposed legislation represents "cancel culture." He said, "This is canceling out somebody who, when he did waterboard, did not think that it was torture." He argued that waterboarding is accepted even today as a way of questioning. He expressed the understanding that Mr. Glenn's charges were minimal because the disciplinary actions only removed him from his command for one month with a fine of $50. He expressed the opinion that the proposed legislation would not be needed if renaming the highway is "done correctly," and he questioned why a bill to have a consultation is needed when there is already a process in place to change the names of roads, which could be done tomorrow, with a fiscal note. He continued that the proposed legislation would only "besmirch the name of a long-dead guy," and the highway could be renamed without creating a "big kerfuffle" about Mr. Glenn being a "bad guy" and without using cancel culture. 1:47:19 PM REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS expressed agreement for the dislike of cancel culture and offered that most people have "good and bad" within them. He stated that Mr. Glenn is admired for his expeditions; however, he did not personally cut the trail. He indicated that the intention of the bill is not to cancel Mr. Glenn; however, he argued that the few roads and major landmarks in Alaska should be named after the most deserving people. He continued that, if the committee, "in its wisdom," decides to rename the Glenn Highway to the Katie John Highway, with a $2 million fiscal note, then he would "love" to speak on the floor in support of this. He continued that the road used to be called the Chickaloon Highway, with at least three tribal communities living the longest in this corridor; therefore, the appropriate process would be speaking with these people and creating a consensus. 1:48:35 PM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE commented that renaming the highway could involve honoring the Native Alaskans without "putting all this stuff in there concerning cancel culture." He opined that no one really knows what Mr. Glenn did concerning torture, as "we were not there." REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS responded by expressing the importance of informing the committee about Mr. Glenn in the context of the proposed legislation. 1:49:44 PM CHAIR HOPKINS announced the committee would hear invited testimony. 1:50:21 PM The committee took an at-ease from 1:50 p.m. to 1:51 p.m. 1:51:19 PM JOSHUA ALBEZA BRANSTETTER, Alaskan Asian Pacific Islander Desi Americans (AKAPIDA), provided invited testimony on HB 352. Talking about the importance of names, he referred to his middle name, which is his mother's maiden name. He stated that the Filipino culture is matriarchal, carrying history in this way. He stated that Filipinos have been in Alaska for 100 years, and they currently number around 25,000. He stated that it is important for this community to not have a highway named after someone convicted of [war crimes against Filipinos] in a war where over 200,000 Filipinos died. He added that this history has been "cancelled" from school books. He concluded that the proposed legislation is not about dragging a dead man "through the mud"; instead, it is a way to celebrate community in Alaska. He concluded that a participation trophy should not be given to a man who contributed little to the history of Alaska. 1:54:41 PM JOEL ISAAK, representing self, shared that he works for the Department of Education and Early Development as the tribal liaison and is a member of Kenaitze Indian Tribe, but he is testifying on behalf of himself. He stated that for thousands of years Alaska Natives have named places after geographic features and events, which is different from the European tradition. He expressed the importance of representing people and not erasing them from a place. He stated that the consultation process outlined in the proposed legislation would provide the proper way of coming to a decision, as it would meld the two cultures. Regarding all of the highways that intersect between Fairbanks and Anchorage, he stated that these routes were determined by the Indigenous people traversing the landscape and mountain passes for thousands of years, and their knowledge was used to chart out the paths. He expressed support for the proposed legislation because the consultation would be a "good first step." He argued that the possible cost of the fiscal note, with the large number of signs, represents a worthwhile purpose. He reiterated that the way people are represented matters. He explained that because the highway's previous Indigenous name was supplanted by a non-Indigenous name, this would not be erasing anything, but simply bringing back what was before. 2:00:08 PM LISA WADE, Executive Director, Chickaloon Village Traditional Council, provided invited testimony on HB 352. She said that she is speaking on behalf of the Chickaloon Tribe, and, out of respect for the other Tribes, she is not speaking on their behalf. She expressed the opinion that the proposed legislation does not represent cancel culture, rather it represents an opportunity to show respect and reconciliation for the past harms committed against Native Alaskans during the time the highway had been created. She added that the bill also addresses the harms against the Filipino people. She stated that the Chickaloon Tribe suffered great losses during the time the road had been constructed, and disease and other negative health results continue to affect the Tribe today. She explained that history is not one dimensional; however, in this context it has been told from one dimension. She explained that because of the glamorization of people like Edwin Glenn, Indigenous people have become invisible. She added that Native Alaskans live with these impacts today, as Indigenous peoples from this area have thousands of ancient place names describing the area, but these names have been "washed away." She provided examples of Native place names in the area. She pointed out that for spiritual reasons these places were named after geographical features and uses, not after notable people; however, she added that in a respectful, collaborative government to government relationship, the Chickaloon Tribe would support names selected by other people. She explained that when people collaborate, outcomes are unifying. She stated that the Chickaloon Village Traditional Council is available for any questions. 2:04:15 PM DAVID REAMER, Historian, provided invited testimony on HB 352. He confirmed that the town of Glennallen is named after Edwin Glenn and Henry Allen. He stated that Mr. Glenn had overseen the expedition and delegated the work but had not made the trail. Referring to Mr. Glenn's journals, he indicated they show a man who was mostly concerned with local gossip. He indicated the journals are kept at the University of Alaska, Anchorage and can be found online. He remarked that Mr. Glenn's history record consists of his journals, the record of his court martial, and the highway named after him. He stated that the court records show Mr. Glenn admitted to committing torture, ordering torture, and overseeing torture. He stated that the torture referenced was called "the water cure," which is similar to current day waterboarding. He provided details of the torture process. 2:06:17 PM REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY called a point of order. 2:06:21 PM The committee took a brief at ease at 2:06 p.m. 2:06:44 PM CHAIR HOPKINS recommended that the account of the torture be less specific. 2:07:07 PM MR. REAMER summed up the torture as being extremely painful. He stated that the trial documents reveal Mr. Glenn held the belief this was not torture because the Filipino people were less than human. He explained the torture at this time had been illegal, and he quoted the historical law code. He described Mr. Glenn's actions which led to his court martial. He stated these accounts are supported by letters sent back to the states by soldiers who were disturbed by the actions, and records show that these actions became known to President Theodore Roosevelt, who ordered the prosecution. It was noted by other commanding officers that Mr. Glenn did not receive the punishment he deserved. In conclusion, he said that the Glenn Highway was not named by Alaskans but by the U.S. Secretary of the Interior, before Alaska became a state. He voiced the opinion that the name was more or less imposed on the state. 2:12:02 PM The committee took a brief at ease at 2:12 p.m. 2:12:08 PM CHAIR HOPKINS acknowledged that Mr. Reamer's testimony was interrupted because of technical difficulties. 2:12:36 PM REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY related an apology for "getting upset." He expressed the opinion that everyone understands about the torture. He continued that Edwin Glenn had named Lake Louise after his wife, so the lake would have to be renamed, too. He stated that he is not saying Mr. Glenn was a "good guy" and argued that the testimony was one- sided, as Mr. Glenn had continued to prosper in his career. 2:14:11 PM REPRESENTATIVE STUTES thanked the invited testifiers, as it was appropriate and informative testimony. 2:14:28 PM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE expressed agreement with the testifiers; however, renaming the highway should not be done by the process laid out in the proposed legislation. He said the legislation is "some sort of subterfuge to get a zero fiscal note." He recommended creating legislation which would rename the highway with a $2 million fiscal note, and "do it the way we have always done it." REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS responded by expressing the belief that there is a better name for the highway. He added that when introducing the legislation, he had not addressed how DOT&PF would treat the fiscal note. He said, "I assumed that signs cost money. To say there is subterfuge is completely inaccurate." He continued that if the highway is renamed by the department, the legislature would receive the request for the funds to be appropriated. He expressed the desire to consult with the people who have been in the area for thousands of years before a new name is assumed. He said, "This is why I wrote the bill up the way I did." 2:16:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN expressed the opinion that the state should undertake a renaming process which uses Indigenous place names. She recommended that the renaming process should not use the current power structure, but a consultation process. She stated that, as a lifelong Alaskan, she has never referred to the largest mountain in the Interior by the name of a U.S. President who never came to Alaska. She said, "It will always be Denali to me." She argued that the renaming process should involve the people who have been impacted by the land they have lived on. She continued that the bill would not be truncating a process but initiating an idea, which will take time and have a price tag. She suggested that individuals may pay to change the signs. She provided the example of Utqiagvik, and the argument that the name would not catch on, but it has. She said, "I applaud a people who ask to call what has always been for millennium something they referred to it, and with that I'm going to be a supporter of the bill." 2:18:40 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRONK referred to the conversation concerning "cancel culture" as negative. If the name is going to be changed, he suggested this be done in the positive light of the groups being represented. CHAIR HOPKINS expressed appreciation for the sentiment. 2:20:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND commented that she has learned from the discussion and welcomes the opportunity for more of this. Regarding the cost, she said she has voted on a number of bills renaming roads and bridges, and each one has been specific, with a specific price for signage. She referenced a recent piece of legislation which had allowed donations for the cost. She spoke about the time and effort to rename the street she lives on and related this to the difficulty in renaming a 190-mile highway. She stated that she supports the bill, as it is fair and inclusive. 2:22:39 PM REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS stated that the intention of the bill is to elevate and celebrate the inspiring Alaskans who live along the corridor. He argued that people should be aware of the reasons behind the consideration for renaming the highway, and the history needs to be laid out. He clarified that the process would not rename every road in the state, or require the consultation process, rather it would be to find a better name for this highway. He remarked that this process would allow for the inspiring stories from people who lived in this corridor to be discovered. He said, "I would like to do that." 2:23:18 PM CHAIR HOPKINS announced HB 352 was held over.