Legislature(1997 - 1998)
02/12/1998 08:02 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CSSB 214(STA) - PEACE OFFICERS/CONCEALED WEAPONS Number 0010 CHAIR JAMES announced the first order of business is CSSB 214(STA), "An Act relating to the possession of a concealed deadly weapon by peace officers and by chief administrative officers of municipal police departments; relating to the definition of police officer; and providing for an effective date," sponsored by Senator Mike Miller. Number 0018 PORTIA PARKER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Mike Miller, testified on behalf of Senator Miller. She said Senators Miller and Green introduced SB 214 to correct an amendment, which was proposed by the Alaska Peace Officers Association, and adopted into SB 141 last year. The impact of that amendment was not realized until after the bill had passed and was sent to the Governor. It was neither the intent of the Peace Officers Association, nor the intent of the sponsors that that would be the effect in regard to police officers, chiefs of police, and law enforcement officers. MS. PARKER stated SB 214 corrects the amendment which requires peace officers to carry concealed [weapons], both on and off duty, to be certified by the Alaska Police Standards Council. She indicated there are law enforcement officers that are on probation for their first year, are not yet certified, and do not fall under the exemption. Those officers would now have to obtain a concealed handgun permit before they could carry on or off the job. Number 0075 LEONARD ABEL, Ph.D., Program Administrator, Community Mental Health Service, Division of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities, Department of Health and Social Services, testified before the committee. He said he would like the committee to consider a possible amendment. MR. ABEL indicated he is a supporter of concealed carry and has a permit. He is also a mental health professional and the Community Mental Health Service's Program Administrator for the state. You cannot at the time of the application, or five years prior to that, have a mental illness as defined in AS 47.30.915. Mental illness means an organic mental or emotional impairment that has substantial adverse effect on an individual's ability to exercise conscientious control of the individual's actions or ability to perceive reality, or to reason, or to understand. A minor problem like nail biting is not going to constitute a mental illness under that definition. MR. ABEL pointed out the effect of SB 141, in the recent veto override, is to delete that language and adopt a federal standard that says that you cannot have a concealed carry permit if you have ever been committed. Most people that have a severe mental illness, that comes to the attention of the authorities, are not committed because our statutes allow you to voluntarily enter a hospital, or a treatment program and avoid the commitment process. Mr. Abel said he believes SB 141 created a situation where very ill individuals may apply for and receive a concealed carry permit. That concerns him. Number 0141 MR. ABEL said if you had an illness that was severe, you had to wait at least five years before you could apply. If you had an incurable mental illness like schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder [manic depressive], you are barred for life from getting that permit. Those illnesses that (indisc.) very unstable - very quickly if you go off medication. The total bar does not bother him. He noted that he did not believe it is necessarily a severe (indisc.) violation of rights. MR. ABEL said, "What the original language did was allow, one case so far, a very ill person to be denied a permit. When this individual notified a relative that he had applied, he said he believed he was being controlled by malevolent forces, he needed that gun to protect himself from these imagined evil forces. Consequently, his relative notified the Department of Public Safety and the permit was denied." Mr. Abel suggested SB 214 be amended to restore the original mental health language. Number 0182 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON asked if there is a record of patients having submitted themselves for treatment that Public Safety offices could avail themselves of. MR. ABEL replied no, confidentiality laws would not permit it, it would have to surface like the incident mentioned. A lot of cases would not come to the attention under normal circumstances. Number 0198 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY suggested this subject be addressed in a separate bill. He said, "I think we have an obligation, in light of the fact that we overrode a governor's veto on a bill to move this correction forward as expeditiously as possible. Amending it unnecessarily would definitely delay that process by a period of several weeks at a minimum...." CHAIR JAMES said she was the first person to put the concealed carry issue on the table. She said we have struggled with the issues of mental health and the fear of guns. The fear of someone, who is mentally disabled, having a concealed handgun is going to be a problem. According to federal law, that person could have a gun. Not allowing them to have a concealed handgun does not necessarily mean that they cannot have one. She noted she is familiar with the case Mr. Abel mentioned and said she would be happy to discuss his concern in a separate provision. Number 0251 JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety, testified before the committee to express the council's concern with SB 141 and the impact that it would have on domestic violence victims. The Governor's Domestic Violence Summit met in Alaska in December. National leaders from around the country attended to help access how Alaska is doing in terms of its statutory and practical responses to domestic violence. MS. ANDREEN said Alaska has gone a long way with the Domestic Violence Act of 1996 in establishing 85 percent of the national model code. The council is taking a serious look at the full gambit of crimes that impact domestic violence victims and recognizing them as such. A concern is SB 141 adopted language that references federal statutes in terms of defining what a domestic violence history and crime is. She said it seriously eliminates a number of domestic violence offenses that were acknowledged, recognized and prosecuted. All misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence now are not considered part of the criteria that must be looked at in the criminal history in terms of being eligible for a concealed handgun permit. A number of relationships that constitute domestic violence are no longer covered because they are not recognized by federal guidelines. This is non-spousal relationships, or relationships where there is not a common child and eliminates all dating domestic violence. MS. ANDREEN indicated it also eliminates Alaska's emergency and ex parte orders as being accepted for those that are eligible for a concealed handgun permit. She said we realize that emergency in particular ex parte orders are very important tools for victims seeking protection. A significant number of the protective orders issued are under the emergency and ex parte process. The council is also concerned about the exclusionary language which limits the prohibition of bringing concealed handguns into domestic violence shelters. Many people think "shelters" is the term for a domestic violence program. There are programs in Alaska that operate as a safe home program and do not provide the residential services and do not meet the definition of the shelter. Number 0306 DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Public Safety came before the committee. He stated he worked with the Alaska Peace Officers Association and the Alaska Association of Police Chiefs to address the "cop problem" in SB 141. Senate Bill 214, "cop fix- it," needs to be in effect before SB 141 or the problem of disarming 100 police officers will come about. He noted the language regarding domestic violence, the mentally ill, and indicted felons changed substantially. Mr. Smith said, "Although I'd like to see some other changes in this bill, I realize that by adding amendments and slowing it down, it might not do what it needs to do." The Alaska Peace Officers Association, and the Alaska Association of Chiefs of Police all agreed SB 214 fixes the problem. Number 0331 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated prior to passing the concealed weapon carry law back in 1994, it was not legal for peace officers to carry under many circumstances. There was never prosecution, it was always assumed that the law authorizing them to be peace officers, to carry a weapon, and to use legal force superseded the laws against carrying. He said, "What I'm referring to is when a police officer was out of their jurisdiction, or off duty in a place serving alcoholic beverages." That was not the legislative intent, when we passed the laws against carrying concealed weapons, to exempt police officers. MR. SMITH replied he is correct, you could carry in the course of your employment. However, some departments wanted officers to carry weapons at all times, should something occur. He said, "It was very hazy as to whether, for instance as an Anchorage police officer, I could go to Fairbanks, off duty, and carry my concealed weapon and still be legal. I don't know if there was ever any prosecutions on any of those. If I went to Fairbanks and, of course in a prisoner pickup, or some investigation, clearly I was in my line of duty so I don't think that was ever an issue." There are a number of officers, when they hire on, who do not become certified until they have had at least a year to 14 months to be certified. There are also a number of police officers in this state that are not required to be certified. SB 214 takes "certified" out. Number 0395 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN believes the bill was triggered by a number of police entities in the state, including the University of Alaska. He indicated they were not allowed to carry off the job because their interpretation of the law was that it was illegal. Number 0393 REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS made a motion to move CSSB 214(STA) from the committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSSB 214(STA) moved from the House State Affairs Standing Committee. CHAIR JAMES was interrupted by a person on teleconference who wanted to testify. Chair James stated that she was not notified SB 214 was being teleconferenced, but said she would accept testimony. Number 0405 DENNY WEATHERS testified from Cordova. First she stated she had no problems with SB 214. The January 14, letter to Senator Mike Miller from Mr. Smith indicated persons indicted for a felony will not be precluded from obtaining a permit. If a person had a felony, most type of felonies, you could not have a firearm. Number 0417 MS. PARKER replied part of that is accurate, you would have to have been convicted of a felony, not charged or indicted. If you are convicted of a felony, there is a prohibition on possession of firearms under federal law and under state law for ten years. MS. WEATHERS asked if that would apply to police officers as well. She question if "persons" means everyday citizens or peace officers. MS. PARKER replied everybody falls under that same rule in regard to conviction of a felony. Number 0430 MS. WEATHERS asked if persons indicted for a felony will not be precluded, were they precluded before. MS. PARKER responded she was not sure. Number 0436 MS. WEATHERS suggested the committee check into that and asked Ms. Parker to explain the wording, "Persons convicted of some misdemeanor, domestic violence crimes, will not be precluded from obtaining a permit." She questioned the meaning of the word "some". Number 0440 MS. PARKER said, "You mean it is applied equally to police officer and other individuals who are not peace officers." MS. WEATHERS indicated police officers that have had domestic violence claims can still work and carry a weapon, other citizens would be precluded. Subsistence hunters, that have to carry a firearm to get their food every day, are precluded from having a firearm. She asked again what "some" meant. "Persons convicted of 'some' misdemeanor domestic violence crimes will not be precluded." She said she would like to see it apply equally. Number 0449 MS. PARKER said it was her understanding that it was applied equally. She stated, "When they are talking about 'some' - a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence definition under federal law is different than under state law, and what was incorporated in SB 141 was the federal law definition. So it didn't include every situation and every misdemeanor crime that's covered under state law, so that's where the change was made." MS. WEATHERS indicated concealed firearms will not be prohibited from domestic violence shelters that are not state funded facilities. She asked if a sign could still be posted. Number 0468 MS. PARKER replied that is correct. This leaves it up to them on whether they want to prohibit firearms within their home or community center, their church, or whatever, rather than the state dictating to them that they must prohibit firearms. It is also up to them on whether they want to post and have no firearms. MS. WEATHERS said the only difference is a state facility would ban. MS. PARKER replied that is correct. MS. WEATHERS asked if a state facility could have a police officer with a firearm. She said it would be silly to make it a total ban. MS. PARKER pointed out there is an exemption that allows the administrator, of the facility, to give written approval if someone wishes to carry a handgun in the facility. Number 0487 MS. WEATHERS noted SB 141 had that exemption, but SB 214 does not. "Concealed firearms will not be prohibited in domestic violence shelters that are not state funded or in a facility of any domestic violence program." She indicated that was confusing and was satisfied with the old version. Number 0500 CHAIR JAMES suggested Ms. Weathers specifically contact Ms. Parker. MS. WEATHERS asked Chair James if police officers were required to get a permit to carry off the job. CHAIR JAMES replied they are required to get a permit at this time. MS. WEATHERS stressed she would like the bill to stay the way it was. CHAIR JAMES stated SB 141 is already law, everything that has been made into law will stay except the one provision where police officers were not included. Number 0528 ERIC WEATHERS testified via teleconference. He said peace officers should have to obtain a permit to carry concealed as everybody else does. Number 0533 CHARLES BRANCH testified via teleconference. He understands this corrects a glitch offered by the Alaska Peace Officers Association. CHAIR JAMES replied that is correct. MR. BRANCH indicated he would like to see it remain that peace officers are not to be above the law, and remain consistent with the general citizenry. Number 0550 CHAIR JAMES noted public testimony was completed and indicated CSSB 214(STA) moved from the State Affairs Standing Committee earlier in the meeting.
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