Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

04/17/2018 01:00 PM House RULES

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01:04:03 PM Start
01:04:40 PM SB4|| HB86|| HB373
01:21:13 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Moved HCS CSSSSB 4(RLS) Out of Committee
           SB 4-NON-CHEMICAL BARBERING; HAIR BRAIDING                                                                       
[Contains discussion of HB 86 and HB 373.]                                                                                      
1:04:40 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE  BILL NO. 4(FIN) am, "An Act                                                               
relating to the Board of  Barbers and Hairdressers; relating to a                                                               
limited license  to practice non-chemical barbering;  relating to                                                               
a license to  practice hair braiding; relating  to the Department                                                               
of  Environmental Conservation;  and providing  for an  effective                                                               
date."  [Before the committee was HCS CSSSSB 4(L&C).]                                                                           
1:04:52 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN   moved  to   adopt  the   proposed  House                                                               
committee  substitute (HCS)  for CSSSSB  4, Version  30-LS0078\T,                                                               
Radford,  4/14/18,  as the  working  document.   There  being  no                                                               
objection, Version T was before the committee.                                                                                  
1:05:32 PM                                                                                                                    
CERI  GODINEZ, Staff,  Representative Matt  Claman, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  explained the  changes  proposed  under Version  T.                                                               
She said Version T would  amend HCS CSSSSB 4(L&C), which requires                                                               
barbershop/hairdressing  establishment  owners  to  conspicuously                                                               
display  shop  licenses;  allows a  Department  of  Environmental                                                               
Conservation (DEC) standard  self-certification process regulated                                                               
by the  Board of  Barbers and  Hairdressers; creates  new license                                                               
types  for braiding  and  non-chemical  barbering; and  separates                                                               
tattooing  and  permanent  cosmetic coloring  into  two  separate                                                               
licensing, to include HB 86,  which repeals current statutes that                                                               
allow  the  Alaska  Commission   on  Postsecondary  Education  to                                                               
threaten nonrenewal of occupational  licenses for individuals who                                                               
default on their student loans.                                                                                                 
MS. GODINEZ  listed the following changes:   Section 1 of  HB 86,                                                               
now Section 32  of SB 4, would delete language  that is no longer                                                               
necessary after the repeals mentioned  in Section 2;  and Section                                                               
2  of  HB   86,  now  Section  34  of  SB   4,  would  repeal  AS                                                               
14.43.145(a)(4),  which gives  authority to  the commissioner  to                                                               
provide notice of default to  the licensing entity for nonrenewal                                                               
of a license.   She mentioned AS 14.43.148,  which indicates that                                                               
a licensing  entity may not  renew a  license if it  has received                                                               
notice from  the commission  that a licensee  has defaulted  on a                                                               
loan  issued  by  the  commission;  and  AS  21.27.390(d),  which                                                               
references temporary licenses.                                                                                                  
1:07:18 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT asked  what  the  repercussions are  for                                                               
removing the ability  of the administration or state  to "go back                                                               
against folks that have defaulted on their loans."                                                                              
MS.  GODINEZ answered  this authority  has not  been used  by the                                                               
commission since  2010, generally because the  commission has not                                                               
found it to  be an effective way of  collecting outstanding debt.                                                               
She explained,  "In the cases  where licenses have  been revoked,                                                               
those people have  mostly moved out of state and  set up practice                                                               
elsewhere, and  ... [the commission  has] found  wage garnishment                                                               
to  be  a much  more  effective  way for  collecting  outstanding                                                               
1:08:27 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  asked if  [Version T] would  remove the  power from                                                               
the  administration  to  collect  from  people  in  all  licensed                                                               
MS. GODINEZ answered that is her understanding.                                                                                 
1:09:07 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT  asked  for clarification  as  to  which                                                               
licenses are being addressed.                                                                                                   
1:09:25 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  recollected that HB 86  had passed through                                                               
the  House  last  year.     He  added,  "It's  only  occupational                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE   LEDOUX  asked,   "Are  there   any  other   non-                                                               
occupational licenses where they  grab the license for nonpayment                                                               
of a student loan?"                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN answered he was not aware of any.                                                                         
MS.  GODINEZ  noted  there  are other  states  that  will  revoke                                                               
driver's licenses  but offered her  understanding that  Alaska is                                                               
not one of them.                                                                                                                
1:10:08 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked,  "What is it ...  that's so special                                                               
about this  situation where  we would  need to  go and  take that                                                               
extra step?"                                                                                                                    
MS. GODINEZ  answered, "I think the  idea behind this bill  is to                                                               
make it so  that this situation doesn't occur,  because it's been                                                               
found to  be very punitive and  has made it, in  fact, harder for                                                               
the  commission   to  achieve  its  goal,   which  is  collecting                                                               
outstanding  debt."   In response  to a  follow-up question  from                                                               
Representative Eastman  and a comment  made by Chair  LeDoux, she                                                               
confirmed that the proposed legislation covers all [licenses].                                                                  
1:11:27 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTAIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 30-                                                                   
LS0078\T.1, Radford, 4/17/18, which read as follows:                                                                            
     Page 1, lines 2 - 3:                                                                                                       
          Delete "relating to a license to practice hair                                                                    
     Page 2, line 3:                                                                                                            
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 2, line 25:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 3, lines 7 - 8:                                                                                                       
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 3, line 16:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 4, line 1:                                                                                                            
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 4, line 5:                                                                                                            
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 4, line 16:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 5, line 28, through page 6, line 7:                                                                                   
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
     Page 7, lines 17 - 19:                                                                                                     
          Delete "The board shall authorize the issuance of                                                                 
      a license for the practice of hair braiding to each                                                                   
        applicant who has satisfied the requirements of                                                                     
     AS 08.13.080(g)."                                                                                                      
     Page 7, line 22:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 7, line 28:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 8, line 18:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 9, line 21:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 10, line 4:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 10, lines 11 - 14:                                                                                                    
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
     Page 10, line 18:                                                                                                          
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 11, line 21:                                                                                                          
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
     Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.                                                                             
     Page 11, line 25:                                                                                                          
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 12, line 3:                                                                                                           
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 13, line 13:                                                                                                          
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 13, line 17:                                                                                                          
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 13, lines 27 - 31:                                                                                                    
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
     Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.                                                                             
     Page 14, lines 29 - 30:                                                                                                    
          Delete "hair braiding,"                                                                                           
     Page 17, line 15:                                                                                                          
          Delete "Section 33"                                                                                                   
          Insert "Section 31"                                                                                                   
     Page 17, line 16:                                                                                                          
          Delete "sec. 35"                                                                                                      
     Insert "sec. 33"                                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVES STUTES and CLAMAN objected.                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN spoke  to Amendment  1.   He mentioned  a                                                               
handout   he  had   given  committee   members  regarding   [hair                                                               
braiding].  He said he spoke  with a number of organizations that                                                               
have encountered other states that  have "gone a little excessive                                                               
in  regulating  hair braiding,"  and  he  expressed concern  that                                                               
Alaska might  be tempted to  do the same.   He said he  knows any                                                               
occupation could be subject to  licensing, but he said he doesn't                                                               
think that  would help people  get jobs.   He said he  thinks the                                                               
occupation of hair braiding is not  the same as being a doctor or                                                               
emergency medical technician (EMT), and  he proposed there may be                                                               
people who "have  low income and little in the  way of marketable                                                               
skills" for whom hair braiding may  be a means for getting a job,                                                               
and he said he would not want to hinder that unnecessarily.                                                                     
1:13:06 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN, in  response  to Representative  Claman,                                                               
said the  handout he  provided states  it is  about hairdressing,                                                               
but it is really about hair braiding.                                                                                           
1:13:30 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD  offered   her  understanding  that  the                                                               
occupation  of hair  braiding used  to require  1,600-2,000 hours                                                               
[for licensing]  but is now  down to 35  hours, and she  said she                                                               
would  like  the  35-hour requirement  maintained,  because  that                                                               
gives hair  braiders credibility;  therefore, she said  she would                                                               
not support Amendment 1.                                                                                                        
1:14:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  PETER  MICCICHE,  Alaska  State  Legislature,  as  prime                                                               
sponsor of SB 4, spoke to the  proposed Amendment 1.  He said the                                                               
impression has been  made today that "we  are suddenly regulating                                                               
hair braiders," but  the requirement has been  reduced from 1,650                                                               
hours "down  to spending  a week in  a shop."   He said  he wants                                                               
people to be able to open a  shop of their own, employ 40 people,                                                               
and become  "remarkably successful"  in this  entrance-level job,                                                               
and  he emphasized  the importance  of learning  customer service                                                               
and  public  health  safety.    He stated  he  does  not  support                                                               
Amendment 1.   He said, "We have a long-standing  tradition to be                                                               
minimally qualified in this state,  and I think following someone                                                               
around a shop for a week is adequate balance."                                                                                  
1:15:23 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX asked  if that means someone does not  have to go to                                                               
school [to be a hair braider]; he/she can work as an apprentice.                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE answered that is correct.                                                                                      
1:15:41 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN opined  that the  sponsor is  accurate in                                                               
saying that  "we are moving in  the right direction with  ... the                                                               
bill,  in terms  of reducing  the hurdles  to get  this license";                                                               
however, Amendment 1 would take  this further by removing "the 30                                                               
hours and other  requirements, as well."  He relayed  that he had                                                               
hoped to  address this  issue in a  separate bill;  however, that                                                               
did not happen.                                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES  maintained her objection to  the motion to                                                               
adopt Amendment 1.                                                                                                              
1:16:22 PM                                                                                                                    
A  roll call  vote was  taken.   Representative Eastman  voted in                                                               
favor  of  the motion  to  adopt  Amendment 1.    Representatives                                                               
Reinbold,  Claman,  Stutes,  Kito,  Chenault,  and  LeDoux  voted                                                               
against it.  Therefore, Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 1-6.                                                                    
1:16:55 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  moved that the chair  rule Amendments 2-6,                                                               
[in  the committee  packet, but  not offered],  out of  order, as                                                               
they are a  subject of HB 373, which is  currently being heard by                                                               
the House Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs.                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.                                                                                                
1:17:23 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD asked  for clarification  as to  whether                                                               
the committee is allowed to  "bundle" the amendments or must rule                                                               
them out of order individually.                                                                                                 
1:17:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  replied that she  thinks [the  unoffered Amendments                                                               
2-6] relate  to the same bill  in the House Special  Committee on                                                               
Military  and  Veterans'  Affairs; therefore,  she  stated,  "I'm                                                               
going to rule that they are out of order."                                                                                      
1:17:51 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN asked,  "Is  there  something in  Uniform                                                               
Rules that  would prohibit  us from taking  up this  amendment at                                                               
this time, or  is that more a question of  ... tradition that you                                                               
personally follow?"                                                                                                             
1:18:02 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX answered, "It's the  custom and the tradition of the                                                               
1:18:24 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT expressed  curiosity as  to what  HB 373                                                               
addresses.    He  said  he  could understand  if  it  applies  to                                                               
"occupational licensing  and dealing  with military  spouses" but                                                               
questioned    whether   it    addresses   the    prohibition   of                                                               
municipalities  from  hiring  lobbyists, as  in  [the  unoffered]                                                               
Amendment 6.                                                                                                                    
1:19:05 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   CLAMAN  said   that  after   communicating  with                                                               
Legislative Legal  and Research  Services, he came  to understand                                                               
that all the  provisions in [Amendments 2-6]  are being addressed                                                               
under HB 373.                                                                                                                   
CHAIR LEDOUX asked Representative Eastman if he disagrees.                                                                      
1:19:18 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  answered no.   He said HB 373  also deals                                                               
with other things.   He said, "These are portions  of policy, and                                                               
I think they deserve to be treated on their own merits."                                                                        
1:19:32 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KITO  said he  believes that  "this rule  has been                                                               
overused  in this  legislature" and  he has  grave concerns.   He                                                               
stated   his  belief   that  in   committee,  members   have  the                                                               
opportunity  to offer  amendments, and  it is  irrelevant whether                                                               
that amendment is "a specific section  that might happen to be in                                                               
another  bill."    He  said  he  thinks  the  committee  has  the                                                               
responsibility  to hear  any amendment  that is  relevant to  the                                                               
bill before the committee.                                                                                                      
1:20:10 PM                                                                                                                    
A  roll call  vote was  taken.   Representatives Claman,  Stutes,                                                               
Chenault, and LeDoux  voted in favor of the motion  for the chair                                                               
to rule  Amendments 2-6 out  of order.   Representatives Eastman,                                                               
Reinbold, and  Kito voted against  it.  Therefore, the  ruling of                                                               
the chair was upheld by a vote of 4-3.                                                                                          
1:20:56 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN moved  to report HCS CSSSSB  4, Version 30-                                                               
LS0078\T,  Radford, 4/14/18,  out  of  committee with  individual                                                               
recommendations and  the accompanying fiscal notes.   There being                                                               
no objection,  HCS CSSSSB  4(RLS) was reported  out of  the House                                                               
Rules Standing Committee.                                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HCS CSSB 4 Version T.pdf HRLS 4/17/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 4
HCS CSSB 4 Explanation of Changes.pdf HRLS 4/17/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 4
HCS CSSB 4 Legal Memo.pdf HRLS 4/17/2018 1:00:00 PM
SB 4