Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/03/1996 04:11 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
 HJR 64 - EXTENSION OF KETCHIKAN PULP CO. CONTRACT                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the meeting would be teleconferenced           
 and the committee would take public testimony on Committee                    
 Substitute for HJR 64 which had been adopted by the committee the             
 previous evening.   He noted that public testimony would be limited           
 to three minutes.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 330                                                                    
                                                                               
 SANDRA MESKE, Vice President, Alaska Women in Timber, testified               
 from Ketchikan that she represents 300+ members in their grassroots           
 organization that supports communication, education and responsible           
 legislation concerning natural resources.  She said, "I'm here                
 today on behalf of those 300+ members saying we want, we desire and           
 we need a stable economical timber industry that Ketchikan Pulp               
 (KPC) can provide for many of our members.  Within the next five to           
 eight years, KPC is willing to invest $200 million to remain                  
 competitive in the world's pulp market.  Investments in                       
 environmental improvements are already underway, but to invest this           
 huge amount of money, a resolution such as HJR 64, must move boldly           
 forward to ensure that the mill is environmentally sound,                     
 economically competitive for the long term.  I am here to fully               
 support a 15-year extension.  This issue is not whether or not                
 Alaska can manage the vast forest lands that provide viable habitat           
 for wildlife, recreation and forest industry.  The experience over            
 the past four years clearly confirms Alaska can manage (indisc.).             
 Our streams are healthy, fishing is at its best and thousands of              
 people like you and I have been able to build productive lives                
 growing and producing useful products.  Without KPC's extension,              
 the facility will not be able to maintain a vigorous economically             
 viable forest industry in Southeast.  Representative Williams, we             
 are not only requesting an extension, but we need a large enough              
 timber supply that can meet the job level that the Tongass Timber             
 Reform Act (TTRA) has.  With the TTRA supply, we can renew the                
 Wrangell and Sitka mills and restore economically our jobs and our            
 well being.  I thank you for the opportunity to speak before the              
 House Resource Committee and once again confirm that Alaska Women             
 in Timber supports the extension for Ketchikan Pulp Company."                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS called on the next person in Ketchikan to                
 testify.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 484                                                                    
                                                                               
 DEBBIE GRAVEL testified from Ketchikan and stated, "A 15-year                 
 contract extension would be a short-term (indisc.) to KPC and a               
 long-term disaster for the Tongass National Forest.  KPC is once              
 again orchestrating a propaganda effort to generate fear and                  
 antagonism to maintain a federally subsidized competitive                     
 advantage.  A premise of the original 50-year contract was that the           
 resource was renewable and by the contract's end KPC would be                 
 harvesting second growth.  How I wish a 15-year extension of the              
 contract would (indisc.) second growth.  Areas that have already              
 lost wildlife habitat and biological diversity of old growth.  On             
 Monday, Troy Rheinhart stated in a public commentary on KRBG Radio            
 that KPC wants to be the leader of protecting the environment.                
 Last year alone, KPC paid $6 million in fines for violating clean             
 air and water standards.  Fifteen more years is a long-term                   
 contract and we will not only have little left to cut, but we will            
 have further impaired our air and water."                                     
                                                                               
 Number 564                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. GRAVEL continued, "I arrived in Ketchikan in 1976 and Ketchikan           
 was rallying to defend the pulp mill, as they threatened closure              
 due to their stated financial inability to fulfill the                        
 Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) regulation for secondary              
 treatment.  The threatened closure and perceived impact on                    
 Ketchikan's economy threatened residents then as is occurring                 
 today.  I would like to quote Malcom Doran (sp) who testified on              
 May 12, 1976, at the EPA hearing.  Quote `It's time Ketchikan                 
 united its positive thinking.  Put KPC in the proper perspective              
 and truly strive for economic freedom, self-respect and then once             
 again citizens can become the type of rugged, self-reliant                    
 individuals that over the years have become synonymous with the               
 term Alaska' end quote.  If KPC had sat idle rather than purchase             
 timber on an open market, perhaps some of the smaller timber firms            
 who have attempted to operate in Southeast Alaska would have been             
 able to compete with KPC for the necessary timber to step in and              
 boost the lagging economy.  This would also give existing local               
 mills a chance to expand operations and to compete in lumber,                 
 shingle and wood product markets up North and down South."                    
                                                                               
 Number 625                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. GRAVEL further stated, "If Ketchikan residents remain hostage             
 to KPC's campaign of economic dependence, we lose our chance to               
 have an independent and stable economy.  A report entitled,                   
 Economic Well-Being and Environmental Protection of the Pacific               
 Northwest, edited by T. M. Power, an economist with the University            
 of Montana, has documented remarkable growth in the economic vigor            
 in Idaho, Montana, Oregon and Washington in the last decade even as           
 natural resource industries - timber, fishing, mining and                     
 agriculture - have experienced decline and have eliminated tens of            
 thousands of jobs.  Instead of devastating the economy of the                 
 region, others have stepped forward.  High tech design and                    
 manufacturing industries, as well as diversification of the                   
 historical base as a secondary manufacturing has helped modernize             
 and diversify the economy as a region.  It is the conclusion of the           
 34 economists authoring this report that the two main factors to              
 this economic growth are the region's quality of life, water and              
 air quality and recreational opportunities, scenic beauty and the             
 fish and wildlife and the increasing mobility of people's business.           
 To quote the report, `A healthy environment is the major stimulus             
 for healthy economy.'  Thank you for this opportunity to comment."            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would now hear                   
 testimony from Sitka.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 707                                                                    
                                                                               
 DON MULLER testified via teleconference from Sitka that he has been           
 a businessman in Sitka for 20 years.  He said, "I am very much                
 opposed to the 15-year contract.  I want to make two points this              
 afternoon.  The first - a specific point in the bill - the third              
 Whereas, it says `pulp mills protects forest health by using that             
 significant portion of the Tongass National Forest that consists of           
 dead, dying and over-mature timber.'  That saddens me.  It reminds            
 me of the Viet Nam war when the military would go into a village              
 and say we've got to destroy you to save you.  It saddens me that             
 some legislators in Alaska are going after the Tongass in the same            
 way that we went after the Communists 30 years ago.  It seems like            
 we should have learned something by that.  The second thing I want            
 to talk about is one of the reasons that's generally given for this           
 extension is the necessity for Southeast economy and Ketchikan                
 economy and the examples often used is Sitka was devastated by the            
 mill closure here.  I want to read you some quotes from newspaper             
 articles over the past two years, putting the big lie on that to              
 rest.  These are mostly statements from the city, itself.  The                
 first one is starting eight months after the APC mill closed,                 
 housing in Sitka was still tight.  Quote, `Very little change in              
 the local real estate market since the Alaska Pulp Corporation mill           
 announced a year ago that it would close the Sitka mill.  Prices of           
 residential and commercial property are holding steady or climbing.           
 The number of houses for sale is still limited and those that do go           
 on the market are selling quickly.'  Unquote.  That's from a July             
 7 Sitka Sentinel article.  `One year after the mill closed, the               
 Sitka reserve fund was up.  The balance sheet for the general fund            
 as of September 30, 1994, reflects a reserve of $8.74 million, up             
 from $7.45 million a year ago.'  Unquote.  That's from a December             
 21 Sitka Sentinel article.  In December 1994, Sitka's electric and            
 water rates are among the lowest in the state.  Quote.  `A state              
 survey of 22 Alaskan cities shows Sitka has the lowest electrical             
 rates and one of the lowest water rates.'  Unquote.  That's from a            
 February 24, 1995, Sitka Sentinel article.  In a report from                  
 Moody's Investor Services prepared by the city of Sitka, dated                
 March 6, 1995, it was shown among other things that the average               
 sale price for a single family home continued to rise from 1990 as            
 single family housing starts for 1994 increased from approximately            
 25 in 1993 to approximately 40 in 1994 and that growth business               
 sales continued to increase for every year from 1989 to 1994.  This           
 was from the presentations of Moody's Investor Services dated March           
 6, 1995.  This report also indicated long-term growth in the health           
 care, tourism and education industry in Sitka.  I would like to say           
 again that I'm very much against this contract and the economy of             
 Sitka proves that we can do fine without pulp mills."                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there was anyone in Sitka wishing to            
 testify who was for the resolution.  Inasmuch as there was no one             
 to testify in support of the resolution, he called on William                 
 Miller to present his testimony.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 956                                                                    
                                                                               
 WILLIAM MILLER testified from Sitka in opposition to CS HJR 64.  He           
 stated, "I further believe that Southeast Alaska communities would            
 build (indisc.) economically if the KPC contracts were cancelled.             
 I make that claim on three reasons.  Number one, the small,                   
 locally-owned timber operations pay more for Tongass timber.  Look            
 at the difference between what Buhler pays and what KPC pays per              
 foot.  Today, the very presence of KPC is keeping timber prices               
 lower than it should be.  Number two, the 1993 Reeve Brothers                 
 lawsuit against KPC and APC never established the impact of the law           
 of the 103 local timber operators on local communities, and it                
 should have.  Locally-owned timber businesses mean that more                  
 profits stay locally.  In addition, more subcontract business is              
 done locally.  Number three, our Tongass, our trees, are like stock           
 on Wall Street.  As they grow in the forest, they yield up                    
 dividends.  Those dividends are in the form of subsistence,                   
 tourism, fish and wildlife habitat.  While the rest of the world              
 are liquidating their trees, ours are growing in value.  And                  
 because of it, our tourism is growing in value almost daily."                 
                                                                               
 Number 1036                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MILLER continued, "The heart of our forest has already been cut           
 out.  Two hundred year old second growth does not have the value of           
 old growth; we'll never it back.  So, let's not be in a rush to cut           
 what is left, especially under the conditions of a long-term                  
 contract.  We have a gold mine here - don't sell it until we really           
 need to eat.  Don't sell off our resources while our dividends are            
 growing in value for the future.  We should be seeking a wood                 
 product industry that will respect our lifestyle, based on local              
 ownership of small maximum value-added businesses."                           
                                                                               
 Number 1069                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MILLER further stated, "Furthermore, look at the language of              
 this bill.  Are our legislators made of logic or pom-pom                      
 cheerleaders for a KPC logging effort.  How many legislators know             
 what the Forest Service definition of productive or commercial                
 forest is?  How many legislators know that high volume old growth             
 forest is the name of the real productive or commercial forest in             
 Southeast Alaska and that the majority of what the Forest Service             
 calls productive forest is glorified shrubbery.  Do legislators               
 know that half of the real productive forest, the high volume old             
 growth forest, has already been cut?  Republican President Ike                
 Eisenhower, warned us not to plunder for our own ease and                     
 convenience the precious resources of tomorrow and do not risk the            
 loss of our children's political and spiritual heritage.  What                
 President Eisenhower was asking us to do is not easy, but then                
 choosing another road rather than the path of ease and convenience            
 rarely is easy.  It requires both effort and strength.  It                    
 (indisc.) sell off our resources for our own short-term comfort.              
 It is wiser to use them conservatively.   Begin doing so by urging            
 Congress and the Administration to cancel the KPC contract."                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated the committee would now hear testimony            
 from Thorne Bay.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1165                                                                   
                                                                               
 DESIREE JANZEN testified via teleconference from Thorne Bay on                
 behalf of H & L Salvage, Inc.  She said, "We are a small business             
 here in Southeast and I'm here in support of the extension of the             
 contract.  Our company buys red cedar logs from them and we depend            
 on this log source as part of our overall operation.  There is more           
 than one business in our community that also depends on KPC for               
 their logs.  If they were to shut down their operations here, it              
 could drive away small businesses like ours.  Without KPC in our              
 community, the residents will all suffer.  Again, I offer our                 
 support for the extended continuation of the contract for KPC.                
 Thank you for this opportunity to speak."                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1213                                                                   
                                                                               
 KELLY L. GERRITS testified from Thorne Bay she is not anybody                 
 important; just a wife, mother and KPC employee.  She said, "I'm              
 trying desperately to hold on to something I truly believe in.  I             
 wouldn't be a fifth generation logger if our timber wasn't a                  
 renewable resource.  I'm not going to give a lot of facts and                 
 figures; I'm just going to speak from the heart.  I support the 15-           
 year extension because I support my livelihood and my heritage.               
 This has been an honest profession; one that many of my generation            
 have supported themselves with and raised good American families.             
 In my lifetime, I have witnessed many positive improvements in the            
 timber industry.  No matter what one may think, we do need the                
 industry and I am only asking for KPC and others to be able to                
 continue so we can continue to be honest, hard working timber                 
 employees in a renewable resource.  Thank you."                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said the committee would next hear testimony             
 from Petersburg.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1271                                                                   
                                                                               
 BECKY KNIGHT testified from Petersburg that she is a 21-year                  
 resident of Petersburg, a former forester for the U.S. Forest                 
 Service, a wife and a mother of two young sons.  She said, "My                
 family makes their living entirely from commercial fishing; a                 
 substantial portion of which is harvested in Southeast Alaska.  I             
 believe I have a good working knowledge of the land management                
 decisions affecting the Tongass and my livelihood.  I am adamantly            
 opposed to any extension of KPC's 15-year long-term contract and I            
 am outraged that such a proposal could even be considered.  As you            
 know, KPC is a convicted felon for intentionally dumping toxic                
 sludge into Ketchikan's Ward Cove.  The EPA has listed KPC one of             
 the worst water polluters in the Pacific Northwest, yet KPC                   
 continues to operate despite the fact that it cannot meet safe air            
 and water quality standards.  In 1983, KPC was found guilty of                
 anti-trust violations, including price fixing, collusive bidding              
 and forcing independent timber operators out of business.  And                
 according to the Forest Service, cheated the American public out of           
 $60 million to $80 million."                                                  
                                                                               
 MS. KNIGHT continued, "I believe that we need to begin now to plan            
 for an orderly transition for KPC to convert to a high value-added,           
 sustainable industry and not grant these corporate bad boys a hand            
 out.  Speaking of sustainable, as a good friend of mine said to me            
 last night, `There will be no forest management if KPC is granted             
 an extension.'  This very fact is quite apparent in documents                 
 prepared for KPC contract offering.  For instance, I had the                  
 opportunity recently to review a draft Environment Impact Statement           
 (EIS) for local timber sales called the (indisc.) Cape Fanshaw                
 timber sale.  The (indisc.) area is important to local residents,             
 including fishermen, crabbers, shrimpers, seiners, trollers, long-            
 liners, as well as other charter boat operators in recreation.                
 Also, the timber volume intended to be logged from areas intended             
 to satisfy KPC's long-term contract.  KPC's unsustainable logging             
 practices have forced them to areas of the Tongass formerly off               
 limits to the company including the (indisc.) areas.  The Forest              
 Service was forced to ignore the needs of these other users of the            
 sale area and their relentless pursuit to satisfy the (indisc.)               
 appetite of an out-of-control pulp mill.  Although they could have            
 offered less volume and made everyone happy, they ignored all the             
 other users.  As I reviewed the EIS, I was struck by the numerous             
 references to federal and state laws and Forest Service agency                
 directions that would be violated, and the Forest Service mad-                
 scramble to satisfy KPC's contract.  For instance, and these things           
 are admitted in the draft EIS and are there for the reviewer to               
 find, the main log dump at (indisc.) is located directly adjacent             
 to an anadromous fish stream in direct violation of Alaska law of             
 transfer facility siting guidelines. guidelines.  Number 2, water             
 quality standards are expected to be exceeded in the (indisc.)                
 water shed and that's the main water shed in the (indisc.) area as            
 a result of proposed road construction and logging in the water               
 shed."                                                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS advised Ms. Knight of the time limit for                 
 testimony.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. KNIGHT continued, "They admit numerous violations of federal              
 and state law.  They arbitrarily expanded the sale area and sale              
 volume to satisfy KPC's contract commitments and we urge the state            
 and the federal government not to award these felons anymore                  
 volume.  Thank you."                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1474                                                                   
                                                                               
 JAY PRITCHETT testified from Petersburg that he is adamantly                  
 opposed to the extension of KPC's contract.  He said, "First of               
 all, the 50-year contracts were a mistake and I don't think we need           
 to modify those and amplify our mistakes of the past.  Second,                
 they've been extremely, as Becky pointed out, extremely reluctant             
 stewards of the environment which we all share here in Southeast              
 Alaska.  Third, we have a state and a federal government that is              
 trying to scale back and not pay subsidies and I don't see this as            
 anything but a subsidy for a huge corporation and as long as we're            
 on that, the fourth reason is that the company theoretically needs            
 more time to make more money to pay for health and environmental              
 standards issue put through earlier when the parent corporation had           
 made record profits that were virtually unheard of.  In fact,                 
 unheard of in the industry.  So, once again I'm adamantly opposed.            
 I see no reason in the world to extend the contract at this time.             
 Let's come back to earth and have everybody and all different types           
 of users compete on an even basis.  The Tongass isn't just timber             
 and it isn't just a pulp mill in Ketchikan."                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS thanked Mr. Pritchett for his testimony and              
 said the committee would next hear testimony from Coffman Cove.               
                                                                               
 Number 1568                                                                   
                                                                               
 PAT ROWLAND, President, Southeast Island School District School               
 Board (SISD), testified via teleconference from Coffman Cove in               
 support of CS HJR 64.  She said, "When I was elected to the board             
 in 1993, SISD had 17 schools in correspondence; this year we have             
 11 schools in correspondence.  Next year we will lose another                 
 school.  Our board has made difficult decisions due to the fact               
 that the formula for funding rural education in our state depends             
 on the number of school sites and the number of students.                     
 (Indisc.) all the revenue, the board's goal is to provide the best            
 possible education for all of our students.  The only glimmer of              
 hope we've had the past few years is timber receipts.  But now as             
 we receive (indisc.) to balance our district's budget, half full              
 school buildings due to relocation of logging operations have made            
 it possible to bring technology to our classrooms.  The amount we             
 receive from timber receipts depends on the amount of logging in              
 the national forest in our state.  Our board is comprised of five             
 elected members representing the various communities in our                   
 district.  (Indisc.) communities dependent on the use of our                  
 natural resources.  Our families earn their living by fishing,                
 logging, government, construction and tourism.  Our diverse group             
 has found common ground from their common goal as trustees of the             
 education of our children.  We respect each others as individuals             
 and have learned to value our diversity."                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1660                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ROWLAND continued, "In listening to the testimony yesterday, I            
 began to realize the evolution that has taken place in the last 21            
 years that I've lived in Southeast Alaska.  The changes have                  
 (indisc.) changed industry, communities, communications and                   
 schools.  In some cases the transition has been painful while in              
 others the (indisc.) has been denied.  The surviving timber                   
 industry has undergone a substantial transformation.  Much of the             
 testimony we have heard was about the past.  Logging camps have               
 evolved into second class cities, some first class cities have                
 revenue problems after closure of their main industry and others              
 are struggling not to follow.  Communications have gone from marine           
 radio to telephone and television program is available in almost              
 every location.  This teleconference is possible.  Southeast Island           
 School District schools have opened, educated children and                    
 (indisc.) as required from Forest Service directives.  I refer you            
 to the survey provided by South East Alaska Resource Center                   
 extension mentioned by John Antonen during his testimony yesterday.           
 I accompanied John and Sitka's School District Superintendent on              
 the trip to D.C. to deliver the survey to the Forest Service and              
 our congressional delegation.  Our request for accountability from            
 the Forest Service for the cost incurred from expenses that                   
 removing schools as required by contract and funding for further              
 educational opportunities for dislocated loggers fell on deaf ears.           
 I hope you will take into consideration the testimony of the mayors           
 of Southeast Alaska and all the others who testified for this                 
 resolution.  This resolution after all is part of a process to show           
 the federal government that backing of some of our state residents,           
 legislators and Governor for an important part of Southeast                   
 Alaska's economy."                                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked Ms. Rowland to wrap up her testimony.              
                                                                               
 MS. ROWLAND continued, "All the players have diversified and                  
 complied to all the directives, the staff have out-layed the time             
 and dollars, our school district included.  With the assurance of             
 the continuance (indisc.) and continue to provide quality education           
 to all of our students in rural areas, we will be able to provide             
 them a technological expertise to meet the ever changing demands in           
 this ever changing world.  The students believe our schools are               
 still necessary to seek future schooling or enter the work force in           
 their community.  They will not be faced with the problems facing             
 the workers of Wrangell and Sitka, re-training after a lifetime of            
 contributing to their jobs in their communities.  Our first goal of           
 implementing technology has just started.  Extension of KPC's long-           
 term contract will provide the needed security and the telephone              
 services serving our communities to expand and install all                    
 necessary improvements to take advantage of the information                   
 highway.  Our board's goal of implementing technology has just                
 started.  With the long-term contract, people can go to (indisc.)             
 for expanded telecommunications is only one example."                         
                                                                               
 Number 1828                                                                   
                                                                               
 DAN HAYES, JR., testified from Coffman Cove that he has worked for            
 KPC and indirectly worked for KPC for the last 20 years.  He said,            
 "I own property here on Prince of Wales Island and I am for this              
 extension - the 15-year extension.  There's lots of logs to be                
 logged yet and I live here and if KPC doesn't get that, there's               
 $200 million that they're putting in to the mill to clean the mill            
 up even further than what's already happened.  So yes, I am for the           
 15-year contract extension.  Thank you."                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1880                                                                   
                                                                               
 JEFF MEUCCI, Mayor, City of Petersburg, testified via                         
 teleconference from Craig that the City of Petersburg will be                 
 talking about a resolution supporting the contract extension for              
 KPC at the next council meeting, April 15.  He did not have an                
 inclination as to which way the resolution would go.  He said the             
 rest of his comments would be based on his personal opinion and not           
 a reflection of the city of Petersburg or the city council.  He               
 remarked, "As a commercial fisherman, I am not guaranteed a                   
 contract to harvest fish.  I think it's very important that we make           
 the industry as competitive as possible.  I think it's important              
 that the jobs generated by the timber industry are Alaska jobs and            
 not jobs that are sent out to the Lower 48.  I think it's important           
 that the jobs in Alaska be the most efficient use of the timber in            
 Alaska, making sure that the processing is done in Alaska, not in             
 the Lower 48 or Japan."                                                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would hear testimony             
 from Juneau.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2005                                                                   
                                                                               
 IRENE ALEXAKOS informed people listening by teleconference of a               
 display which listed KPC contributions to Southeast Alaska.  She              
 said, "In a nutshell it lists the payroll, direct jobs and taxes              
 they pay.  I've put before the committee here, another picture that           
 represents a side that many have glossed over - some of the many              
 laws that KPC has broken.  In most cases, they are violations that            
 have been knowing and repeated for years.  Yesterday, the Vice                
 Chair gave the impression that there need not be much concern for             
 KPC breaking laws in the future because if someone breaks the law,            
 they get caught and are taken to court.  Surely this is grossly               
 simplistic.  We all know that only a fraction of criminal and civil           
 violations are caught and somehow brought to justice."                        
                                                                               
 Number 2051                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ALEXAKOS continued, "One point in the resolution is that KPC              
 faces an uncertain future, not of its own making, as a result of              
 the continuing log shortage created by the failure of the Forest              
 Service.  This is a curious statement to me.  It is the timber                
 industry that cuts and has been cutting for decades in the Tongass.           
 Logically, there is less available.  Illinois was once forested,              
 too.  It must be recognized there are limits to everything.  It is            
 the Forest Service who has provided most of the timber base to KPC            
 at prices far below those offered competitors.  KPC has had the               
 benefit of a situation that no other mill in the U.S. has had.  Why           
 do they deserve this unique treatment?  Much of the emphasis,                 
 understandably, in this resolution is on jobs.  Certainly,                    
 employment is crucial to individuals, communities and a healthy               
 economy.  But to go as far as to say there would be cataclysmic               
 impact, as you say Mr. Chairman, is a gross exaggeration.  I think            
 it would be far more productive for politicians and individuals to            
 see that everyone is capable of finding employment and working in             
 other sectors.  Indeed, when legislators leave each May, you often            
 go to resume entirely different careers."                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2107                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ALEXAKOS further stated, "As a last point, I'd like to call               
 your attention to this report.  At the beginning of each session,             
 the Department of Environmental Conservation is required to submit            
 a report to the legislature summarizing several aspects of the Oil            
 & Hazardous Substance Release and Response Fund.  This report                 
 includes dollars spent by the department, the amount and source of            
 funding, monies recovered by personal services, contracts                     
 purchases, and summaries of response activities.  At the end of the           
 report is a list of sites in DEC's contaminated sites database and            
 the priority classification of each.  The primary tool used by ADEC           
 for prioritizing contaminating sites is the Alaska Hazard Ranking             
 Model.  This model provides an indication of the relative threat to           
 public health in the environmental by evaluating several exposure             
 pathways.  It's not an absolute measure, but it does provide a                
 general assessment of the threats a site may pose.  As such, DEC              
 places sites into high, medium and low priorities."                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS reminded Ms. Alexakos of the time limit for              
 testimony.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. ALEXAKOS commented, "Let me just say that of 2,761 sites in the           
 state, KPC was ranked number 2.  As of last week, DEC had 2,761 in            
 this database.  Sites with a score of greater than 40 are                     
 considered to be high priority.  KPC has a score of 337.  This is             
 the second highest score computed of over 2,000 contaminated sites            
 in the state.  This is now and this is today.  Before the                     
 legislature passes such a resolution, I believe this issue must not           
 only be addressed, it must be resolved."                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2213                                                                   
                                                                               
 KATHY COGHILL, Representative, Juneau Chapter, National Audabon               
 Society, presented their position on the proposal to extend                   
 Ketchikan Pulp Company's long-term contract for another 15 years.             
 She said, "Although we support the presence of a timber industry in           
 Southeast Alaska, we are opposed to this proposal for the following           
 reasons:  1)  We are no longer living under the same conditions               
 which led to signing the original contract in 1954.  Our economy              
 here is healthy now and growing as we head into the twenty-first              
 century; 2) extending the contract is not a good way to create or             
 preserve jobs.  If more jobs are desired, the emphasis should be on           
 creating a better environment for small timber contractors and                
 fostering value-added operations.  Extending special favors to KPC            
 will only hinder any positive movement in this direction; 3) the              
 Tongass National Forest will release its latest revision of the               
 Tongass Land Management Plan within the next month.  As a part of             
 this process, a panel of fishery experts were asked to evaluate the           
 impacts of the alternative plans on the health and productivity of            
 salmon.  Their consistent response was that roads are a serious               
 cause of damage to fish habitat and that as more miles of road are            
 constructed, the danger to fish increases.  We didn't know this 40            
 years ago; we do know it now.  How can we continue to operate as if           
 roads are inherently good and award KPC credits for creating them.            
 Over the last 40 years we have learned that logging roads are more            
 of a burden than an asset.  If anything, KPC should be paying a               
 penalty for building roads that damage fishermen's livelihoods and            
 cost the Forest Service millions of dollars to maintain; 4) the               
 timber industry is heavily subsidized in Southeast Alaska and the             
 federal government can no longer afford this expense, particularly            
 when you consider that we are paying three times for the subsidy.             
 First we pay with road credits, virtually giving away the trees in            
 exchange for new roads.  Then we pay in lost opportunity for                  
 tourism, fishing, subsistence and recreation.  And finally, we pay            
 for restoration when logging roads get old and begin to fail."                
                                                                               
 MS. COGHILL continued, "KPC has not been a good corporate neighbor.           
 In 1995, KPC plead guilty to 14 criminal violations for                       
 intentionally polluting the waters of Southeast.  In closing, I               
 want to re-emphasize that times have changed since 1954.  The                 
 sweetheart deal that KPC has been enjoying since then is no longer            
 appropriate.  KPC has repeatedly proven itself irresponsible,                 
 negligent and unworthy of special favors.  Extending the 50-year              
 timber contract is not in the best interest of Alaskans and in                
 fact, it would do them a great disservice.  Thank you."                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS remarked he would continue taking testimony              
 from Ketchikan at this time.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2343                                                                   
                                                                               
 TROY OLIVADOTI testified via teleconference that he is a resident             
 of Ketchikan and strongly supports the 15-year contract extension             
 for KPC.  He stated, "I have seen the devastation caused by the               
 collapse of the wood products industry in Oregon and no one should            
 wish to same thing to happen here in Southeast Alaska.  KPC needs             
 some security of a guaranteed fiber source so it can make major               
 investments into ECF (indisc.) with confidence.  I urge the state             
 to get behind the contract extension soon so KPC can move forward             
 and invest in the future.  Thank you very much."                              
                                                                               
 Number 2381                                                                   
                                                                               
 FRED ATHORP testified via teleconference in opposition to CS HJR
 64.  He said, "For four years, I've been hearing that Ketchikan               
 Pulp Company's timber resource is renewable on a 50-year renewable            
 basis.  My income comes from commercial fishing and the tourist               
 industry; both negatively impacted by the timber industry as run by           
 Louisiana Pacific who feels that a tree has no value unless it's              
 cut down and they have been a very poor corporate citizen, in my              
 opinion.  It is anticipated by the Forest Service that 90 percent             
 of the coho habitat will be destroyed by the timber industry by the           
 year 2000.  We are keeping going with our own resources -                     
 hatcheries.  Thank you very much."                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said the committee would hear testimony from             
 Sitka at this time.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 2435                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROBERT ELLIS testified from Sitka that he is adamantly against the            
 joint resolution asking for an extension of KPC's contract for many           
 reasons, but would touch on just a couple.  He said, "I would like            
 to say that I do agree with the sponsor statement - that portion of           
 it that says that we have a healthy environment in Southeast.  So             
 I question the science of the statement made in the third Whereas             
 in the resolution which states that `a significant portion of the             
 Tongass consists of a dead, dying and over-mature....                         
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-50, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 011                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. ELLIS continued... "many problems with the resolution, my major           
 one is that the long-term contracts, as we have seen them, have               
 made it impossible for the Forest Service to use good science in              
 managing the Tongass.  We have been told again and again by the               
 Forest Service that the contracts are forcing the Forest Service to           
 ignore good multiple use management.  And what this resolution is             
 doing is re-enforcing this poor management on the Forest Service.             
 I would like to comment that this year in Sitka, our herring                  
 fishery has been able to fish in Silver Bay in an area that has               
 been closed to them by the pollution from the pulp mill since the             
 pulp mill started.  This year the herring fishery is taking                   
 millions of dollars worth of fish from an area that the pulp mill             
 had precluded from their use.  I think this is just one more aspect           
 of how Sitka is escaping from the illness of being a pulp mill                
 town.  Again, I would like to say that I am against this                      
 resolution.  Thank you."                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 071                                                                    
                                                                               
 FLORIAN SEVER testified from Sitka in opposition to CS HJR 64.  He            
 said, "I'm just simply against any extension because just like                
 Alaska Pulp Corporation here in Sitka, KPC broke its union and now            
 there's an open shop there.  Both of these pulp mills have a                  
 history of holding not only their workers but their home                      
 communities as economic hostages.  KPC is a proven violator of just           
 about every law or regulation that ever applied to them.  They                
 pleaded guilty to criminal violations of the Clean Water Act and              
 then almost at the same time they fired and violated the                      
 constitutional rights of one of their own workers for cooperating             
 with the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. EPA investigations           
 of the same violations.  And as I said earlier, they broke their              
 union at the KPC mill many years ago and there's an open shop there           
 now and they have been holding their workers as economic hostages."           
                                                                               
 MR. SEVER continued, "KPC's request for a contract extension is               
 just a move to set up the federal government for a lawsuit similar            
 to the one APC has filed for $1 million.  That suit was filed                 
 because there was not enough timber available to support the APC              
 pulp mill and I think it's a proven fact that there is not enough             
 timber -- there's a big worry in the offices in the U.S. Forest               
 Service as to whether they'll be able to even fulfill the terms of            
 KPC's 50-year contract, so a 15-year extension would be just not              
 viable.  The Tongass can't sustain and support and subsidize this             
 mill in Ketchikan any longer.  Instead of an extension, it should             
 be shut down.  Thank you."                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there was anyone else in Craig                  
 wishing to testify on CS HJR 64.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 168                                                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL KEMPNICH testified via teleconference that he is an                   
 employee of the city of Craig.  He said, "Some of the comments I've           
 heard in the last few minutes, to me appear to be (indisc.).  I'm             
 not for or against KPC, but what I'm finding from watching this               
 from the outside, is that there's a lot of (indisc.) on both sides            
 and it isn't getting anybody anywhere.  I heard one comment that a            
 guy made a couple minutes ago that by the year 2000, 90 percent of            
 the coho habitat in Southeast would be wiped out.  That means that            
 over the last 40 years a good percentage of the coho habitat has              
 already been wiped out, but yet two years ago we had a record run.            
 I agree that there's some problems with KPC and the way they do               
 some things but to me to believe the comment about the cohos is               
 obviously not true.  And I have a hard time accepting the                     
 environmentalists' views when they state figures and facts like               
 that that are just obviously not true.  I would just wish that both           
 sides would work together and make their positions based on facts             
 and work together rather than throwing (indisc.) around.  I'm not             
 for or against it, I just hope that everybody can work together and           
 come up with the best solutions for the whole timber industry.                
 Thank you."                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced he would again take testimony from             
 Ketchikan.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 243                                                                    
                                                                               
 BARRY HOGARTY, Employee, Ketchikan Pulp Company, testified from               
 Ketchikan that she works in the environmental department.  She                
 said, "I've been regulator of the industry up until just recently             
 so I have kind of a unique perspective, I think, on some of the               
 things that have been said here today.  I really object when I hear           
 Ketchikan Pulp Company being referred to as convicted felons.                 
 (Indisc.) civil and criminal complaints, yes, but I know for a fact           
 that I'm not working with convicted felons.  Regarding the                    
 contaminated sites ranking - that was in part based on our own                
 forthrightness with residents in the area around the mill, placing            
 protection on their drinking water systems even though there had              
 been no demonstrated effect from any of the emissions from the mill           
 directly in the drinking water.  So we're going ahead and                     
 installing protections for people there based on perception and the           
 chance that there might be some contamination in their drinking               
 water.  It's not based on any actual science and there weren't many           
 numbers used in that ranking relative to that.  And I really object           
 to that.  That was just basically a DEC in-house ranking that                 
 really bears no weight when it comes to overall compliance."                  
                                                                               
 Number 321                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. HOGARTY continued, "The mill has made improvements over the               
 last 40 years that have made for cleaner air and cleaner water                
 around the mill.  I think the mill is a good neighbor.                        
 Improvements in logging practices in the Tongass National Forest              
 have been tremendous over the last 40 years and KPC is a major                
 player in the economy here in Ketchikan.  And I personally believe            
 that without KPC  -- an industry like KPC here in the economic                
 base, we're going to have a poorer environment in many ways because           
 there's not going to be the tax base to support what I believe is             
 really the problem here and with lack of proper sewage and lack of            
 proper drinking water, treatment and we also have solid waste                 
 problems.  Without the 15-year extension, I don't believe we can              
 amortize the environmental improvements that need to be made at the           
 mill.  Thank you."                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 369                                                                    
                                                                               
 MARGARET CLABBY testified via teleconference from Ketchikan that,             
 "Yesterday, when I listened to the committee, there seemed to be              
 some misunderstanding about the seriousness of the toxic and                  
 hazardous air and water discharges at KPC.  Someone said if there             
 were a problem wouldn't EPA or DEC be saying so.  They've said so             
 repeatedly; it's not just (indisc.).  Local people have started               
 going through the records of what's going on at KPC and it's daily            
 violations consistently throughout the year here, right up to                 
 current."  She read from the September 15, 1995, the United States            
 District Court, Department of Justice Attorney, "The United States            
 recognizes that KPC pulp mill operation has seriously degraded                
 water quality in the vicinity of Ward Cove and that KPC has a                 
 checkered compliance history.  Precisely for those reasons that               
 (indisc.) requires KPC to pay a civil penalty of $3.11 million to             
 settle claims regarding test violations."  She remarked, "This is             
 the largest civil penalty ever imposed on any of the operating                
 (indisc.).  KPC has consistently been one of the major violators              
 and one of the major polluters.  Part of it is not their fault in             
 that the kind of mill that they have is very problematic for both             
 air and water pollution.  Part of it is repeatedly (indisc.)                  
 knowing violation of federal water for (indisc.) seriously                    
 inefficient monitoring.  Serious violations of worker safety laws             
 again and again and again and this is documented things that we see           
 in the record.  (Indisc.) hemlock mill that's being cited for                 
 violations of air quality tests is a real problem."                           
                                                                               
 Number 454                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. CLABBY further stated, "One of my concerns is that if KPC wants           
 a contract extension that they could really request it and the                
 (indisc.) could clearly see what it is they're asking for it.  It's           
 really the terms that are important.  I'm not necessarily against             
 or for a contract extension for KPC.  If the terms were right, I              
 could easily be supporting it.  But I need to see what the terms              
 are.  Exclusive rights to harvest over three billion board feet of            
 timber (indisc.) the year 2005 (indisc.) is extremely valuable.               
 This is the same amount as APC harvested during their entire                  
 operation.  The terms are important because we want a mandate for             
 a certain number of jobs for the people in this community,                    
 compliance with the law, that sort of thing.  It's very, very                 
 important.  What's really going on is that KPC wants to change its            
 current contract and I talked to Troy Rheinhart and Ralph Lewis and           
 (indisc.) and that's the reality and that's what we should be                 
 talking about.  They want to get rid of the onerous termination               
 clause in this current contract.  Why do they want to get rid of              
 that?  Because it says that the Forest Service can terminate their            
 contract if operations would cause serious environmental damage.              
 They saw a real problem here and they want to get rid of that                 
 clause.  KPC wants many other contract changes.  They want to do              
 away with the comparability (indisc.).  All the things that give              
 the public security for some of the environmental things that do              
 make okay for KPC to be here."                                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS commented he would now hear testimony from               
 Juneau.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 553                                                                    
                                                                               
 DICK MYREN testified in opposition to CS HJR 64.  He said, "I am a            
 retired fisheries resource biologist.  I object to the third                  
 Whereas in the resolution regarding the old growth dying and over-            
 mature timber.  I have submitted a paper I wrote to Governor                  
 Knowles.  It's 17 pages long and his letter of response is on the             
 last page.  On page 3 or 4, there's a description of why old growth           
 dying and dead timber is valuable along streams because it protects           
 fish habitat.  Frank Murkowski recently stated -- gave a figure in            
 the paper that the amount of forest cut per year was .008; a very             
 tiny fraction.  Now that's the amount of timber of the forest cut             
 per year.  Well that .008 fraction may be small, but if you                   
 consider an astronaut for example, looking down on the earth from             
 afar and noting the thin (indisc.) of the atmosphere and humans and           
 the other life, and seeing that that is a tiny fraction of the                
 total mass of the earth, I suspect that tiny fraction would be even           
 smaller than .008 of the ratio of earth to the habitat.  The idea             
 that because we're only logging a small fraction of the forest                
 along the stream that we have no affects, is really wrong.  I'd               
 like you people to consider we do have a serious adverse logging              
 effect coming out of this because of our past logging activities              
 and they will increase intensively.  The documents I submitted to             
 you will show that, I believe.  Thank you very much."                         
                                                                               
 Number 659                                                                    
                                                                               
 KARLA HART, Vice President, Alaska Wilderness Recreation & Tourism            
 Association, testified this organization represents over 300                  
 members; the majority of which are small Alaska owned tourism                 
 businesses.  She said, "To give you an example, I just pulled from            
 my office brochures some of the many businesses which we represent.           
 These are businesses ranging from small bed and breakfasts all the            
 way through fairly large operations which employ upwards of 60 or             
 100 people.  So it's a wide range of businesses.  They operate                
 throughout Alaska; we have an extensive membership throughout                 
 Southeast Alaska.  The nature based recreation and tourism industry           
 in Southeast Alaska does not have any good economic figures on the            
 impact of our industry.  The industry is new, relatively speaking,            
 and very rapidly changing in dynamic.  It's one of the fastest                
 growing industries in Alaska now.  Decisions that are made with               
 respect to the timber industry have long-term consequences for the            
 growth of our industry.  Our industry consists of small businesses,           
 family owned businesses unlike a large organization such as                   
 Ketchikan Pulp Company.  You can go out and buy a charter boat and            
 get into the wilderness based tourism business whether it's a sport           
 fishing business or a small hunting business or a wildlife watching           
 business.  It offers people a lifestyle choice; it offers people an           
 easy entry into a business that gives them a high quality of life.            
 Maybe not measured only in dollars, but also in lifestyle; the way            
 that Alaskans like to live.  Work hard for part of the year and               
 then have time to go out and do your subsistence hunting and                  
 fishing, to recreate, to just enjoy chopping wood and living at               
 home in the winter.  It's a type of business that more and more               
 Alaskans are getting into from all different industries, changing             
 into tourism."                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. HART continued, "We strongly oppose the 15-year contract                  
 extension resolution because in 15 years it's inconceivable what              
 our industry might be like if we're given the opportunity to                  
 compete on a level playing field.  That contract would preclude               
 some of the growth of our industry.  Thank you."                              
                                                                               
 Number 764                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked Ms. Hart how much land they needed to              
 recreate on?  He commented there are 17 million acres of land in              
 Southeast Alaska and most of it is tied up now.  The amount of land           
 available for logging companies to log on is 1.7 million acres.               
                                                                               
 MS. HART responded, "I think it's obvious that you can only cut               
 trees on forested lands and as we all know the majority of the                
 Tongass lands are not forested.  So, the bays and coves that our              
 businesses depend on to provide the forest related activities are             
 really quite limited.  We have done a study of the tourism bays and           
 coastlines since most of our activity takes place along the coast,            
 and in Alaska, a recent study showed that on Prince of Wales Island           
 of 114 of 187 of the anchorages that (indisc.) could use have been            
 impaired."                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said we're talking about 15 million acres that           
 are open for recreation and tourism.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 823                                                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL SALLEE testified from Sitka that he is a deck hand on a               
 long line boat, (indisc.) commercially and operate a one-man                  
 sawmill.  He said, "I'm not adamantly for or against renewing the             
 long-term contract.  I do think such an action would require a                
 radical change in timber harvest practices.  Such a change is not             
 evident at all in HJR 64.  HJR 64 does not address the lack of                
 diversity within the Southeast Alaska timber industry.  The whole             
 industry is very rigid and based mainly upon large scale                      
 operations.  The U.S. Forest Service lays out sales requiring roads           
 to be built over miles of roads, loggers move in with chain saws              
 and steel power yarders, the timber is clearcut, hustled off to the           
 pulp mills, sawmills or round log export traders and is gone;                 
 quickly liquidated.  This is not industrial diversity.  (Indisc.)             
 diversity gets exported in round logs and cants for someone else to           
 process.  The problem is the scale of the operations, I think most            
 clearly pointed out by the mayor of Wrangell yesterday.  Wrangell             
 workers are proud of their production of 45,000 board feet per day.           
 The Ketchikan sawmill at Ward Cove (indisc.) 25,000 board feet per            
 ship; 25,000 board feet is 6 months or more of production for my              
 one-man operation.  From my perspective a mill that turns out                 
 25,000 board feet per day and employs 60 people is going through              
 their annual share in about a month.  You cannot keep adding to the           
 mechanization or the number of players without changing the whole             
 game.  (Note:  This portion of testimony is indiscernible).                   
                                                                               
 MR. SALLEE continued, "As for the abundance of deer and fish, the             
 deer are only abundant because so much land on Prince of Wales is             
 presently in a clearcut state and the recent winter snows have not            
 been deep.  The U.S. Forest Service environmental impact statements           
 all warn that subsistence hunting will be (indisc.).  HJR 64 does             
 not speed up (indisc.) or add any timber to the timber base or show           
 me any new innovative value-added techniques.  It just prolongs an            
 already egregious situation in which the status quo timber                    
 processing in the Tongass falls far behind timber extraction to the           
 detriment of other resources.  I'm also a part of the timber users            
 coalition in Ketchikan and that coalition wants to see the                    
 relatively untouched (indisc.) does not want to see it turned into            
 a (indisc.) tree plantation."                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 975                                                                    
                                                                               
 HELEN DRURY testified via teleconference from Sitka and wondered              
 how any legislator can face his/her constituents and support the              
 renewal of the Ketchikan Pulp Company contract.  She said, "For               
 years this company has been responsible for breaking laws through             
 their toxic water pollution, which has been extremely harmful for             
 (indisc.) number of citizens.  In addition, they were found guilty            
 of monopolistic practices such as price fixing, collusive bidding,            
 putting timber companies out of business.  The Forest Service has             
 found that anti-trust practices of KPC and the Alaska Pulp                    
 Corporation have cheated the government out of $60 to $80 million.            
 With these questionable logging practices, I once again ask, how              
 can the legislature even consider extending this contract.  The               
 enlightened thing to do is to replace KPC with those honest Alaskan           
 entrepreneurs and independent timber companies who will provide a             
 variety of value-added jobs which will support the idea of a                  
 sustainable future for our Tongass forest."                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted he would again take testimony from the             
 Ketchikan teleconference site.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1047                                                                   
                                                                               
 ELIZABETH WEST testified that she is a fairly new resident to                 
 Ketchikan.  She said, "I've spent most of my life in the Pacific              
 Northwest where in the last several years there has been a down               
 turn in the timber industry.  I fully support the extension for KPC           
 because I saw what happened in Hoquiam and Aberdeen, Washington               
 which used to be a mill town.  This community is on a beach, it's             
 in a highly recreated area, tourism did not replace those timber              
 dollars.  The community of Aberdeen is approximately the same size            
 as Ketchikan.  It has a few advantages in that they can drive to              
 Seattle, which is about an hour and 45 minute ride in order to get            
 to other work, unlike Ketchikan where residents here would have to            
 fly.  When the mill in Aberdeen closed down, the community died.              
 There is still a community there, but I heard a recent speech by              
 the high school class valedictorian and she said more than 75                 
 percent of her classmates are now on (indisc.) lunches; a                     
 government supported effort in order to make sure that students               
 have at least one meal a day.  And they often clear out the baskets           
 of crackers and bread in order to make sure they have a snack in              
 the afternoon.  That's very sad.  I don't want to see that happen             
 in Ketchikan.  I moved here; my family's moved here; we want our              
 lives to be here.  We would like to see KPC extended so that the              
 community is supported by the infrastructure that it brings and I             
 hope that this resolution is passed favorably and that Governor               
 Knowles will sign it.  Thank you."                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1139                                                                   
                                                                               
 JUDY BEAR testified via teleconference from Ketchikan and said,               
 "Louisiana Pacific is in Ketchikan to make money.  If the contract            
 had only been 20 years, Louisiana Pacific would have made millions            
 of dollars.  If the contract lasts 100 years, Louisiana Pacific               
 will make billions of dollars.  Louisiana Pacific is in Ketchikan             
 to make money.  If it didn't, it would leave.  The Tongass Forest             
 has been in Southeast for hundreds of thousands of years.  The                
 Tongass Forest has been in Southeast long before we were a nation.            
 The Tongass was healthy long before mankind showed up in Southeast.           
 Louisiana Pacific wants more of the Tongass National Forest.                  
 Louisiana Pacific wants more money.  People want to breathe clean             
 air; people want to drink clean water.  Time for a pop quiz.  Why             
 did the Exxon Valdez have a single hull and single screw?  It was             
 cheaper.  Why doesn't LPK comply with EPA standards?  It's cheaper            
 not to.  When will super tankers have twin hulls and twin screws?             
 When people demand it.  When will LPK clean up its act?  When                 
 people demand it.  Our legislators can act in the best interest of            
 both LPK and the people of Alaska.  Don't give a 15-year extension            
 until LPK makes good on all its past promises to give the people              
 what they have promised to their stockholders.  Clean air, clean              
 water and quality of life at a reasonable profit.  This would be a            
 win for both the investors and our Southeast community.  Thank                
 you."                                                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated the committee would next hear testimony           
 from Juneau.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1250                                                                   
                                                                               
 KAREN BRICKEN testified that she is opposed to the extension of the           
 contract.  She said, "I really don't understand why we're even                
 considering it.  I think that there have been so many violations              
 committed by this company.  I think that a company that is not                
 following their guidelines, that is not following environmental               
 policy should not even be considered for an extension of a                    
 contract.  They are damaging the water and air quality.  The                  
 Tongass National Forest does not exist for a pulp mill.  It is for            
 all creatures.  I don't feel that the forest is even ours to throw            
 away - to destroy.  And the impact of this company has been so                
 strong that it should, I really think that it should be shut down.            
 I think we've done enough damage that we need to stop now."                   
                                                                               
 Number 1330                                                                   
                                                                               
 MIKE BETHERS, Owner, Fishing Charter Business, in Juneau requested            
 that his testimony be read into the record as follows:  "Dear                 
 Legislator, I was very disheartened to hear that the Legislative              
 Majority supported extending the KPC contract.  This is one of the            
 two original contracts which did more damage to local public                  
 resources, public land and future use of the land for public use              
 than any other deal ever cut by Congress.  Furthermore, U.S.                  
 taxpayers would have to spend tens of millions annually to                    
 subsidize further destruction of our public lands in the Tongass.             
 Earlier logging done under contract has left many areas of southern           
 Southeast Alaska unsuitable for any other use.  Subsistence                   
 capability to the land is diminished as the U.S. Forest Service               
 reports that deer numbers are dropping due to logging impacts.                
 Also, it has been said by the U.S. Forest Service that Prince of              
 Wales Island will be closed to sport hunting about the year 2000              
 because of low deer numbers due to logging.  This is a direct loss            
 of public use of a public resource on public lands.  Many fish                
 streams in heavily logged areas no longer contain enough water in             
 mid-summer to provide access for spawning salmon or provide much              
 wet area for juvenile fish rearing.  As for tourism, you've                   
 obviously never tried to sell visitors a trip to an area that has             
 been logged.  The most common question asked by potential visitors            
 is:  Is the area natural or has it been logged?  Visitors don't               
 come to see Southeast Alaska to see logging.  They come to see wild           
 natural country.  The can see miles of logged off country in the              
 Lower 48.  That's why they like to come to Southeast because in               
 some areas it still has tall trees standing.  My employment depends           
 on wild natural landscapes and strong dependable fish runs.  I am             
 totally opposed to the extension of the KPC timber contract and               
 urge you to do the same.  It's time for the logging industry to               
 scale back to a fraction of historical levels.  That way a well               
 balanced multiple resource management approach to the public                  
 resources on the Tongass will provide for all user groups.  Once              
 again, I urge you to oppose the extension of any federal contract             
 on any public resources.  Thank you."                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted there were two additional people in                
 Thorne Bay wishing to testify.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1450                                                                   
                                                                               
 KATHY LIETZ testified from Thorne Bay and said, "I've been                    
 listening quite closely to all the testimony and I'd just like to             
 say for those who didn't hear yesterday that Black Bear Cedar                 
 employs approximately eight people.  Our annual payroll is about a            
 quarter of a million dollars, our annual impact to the local                  
 economy is a half million dollars per year.  That may seem                    
 insignificant to some of you in Sitka and Juneau where your                   
 economies are so much greater than ours, but on Prince of Wales               
 Island that is a tremendous impact.  If KPC leaves, we leave.  All            
 of our employees, their spouses, their children; our community will           
 not exist.  We support -- I heard the fishermen say that the                  
 logging has been detrimental to their fishing, yet they have record           
 salmon runs in glut.  The U.S.D.A. is currently buying up their               
 excess salmon.  If the government can subsidize the fishermen                 
 because they can't sell their fish, how about subsidizing the                 
 loggers for not cutting our trees.  Thanks."                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1559                                                                   
                                                                               
 SUSAN THOMPSON testified via teleconference from Thorne Bay that              
 she is a teacher in Thorne Bay and was representing herself and her           
 husband.  She said, "Both my job and my husband's job are impacted            
 by a stable timber supply and by a stable community and I see the             
 effects every day of uncertain employment on families through their           
 children's behavior, through the children's inability to focus on             
 their work.  And in my opinion, a stable income leads to family               
 stability and that can only benefit Thorne Bay and only benefit the           
 state in the long run.  In my opinion also, Louisiana Pacific has             
 been a good neighbor in Thorne Bay and I don't have any reason to             
 believe this won't continue.  They lend support to us in the form             
 of dollars and equipment and labor for community projects.  They              
 have spent millions of dollars to upgrade their environmental                 
 equipment to meet environmental standards.  I think that needs to             
 be recognized and encouraged through contract extension and by                
 community commitment to the timber industry.  And in my opinion,              
 Thorne Bay cannot survive without KPC except as the smallest                  
 entity.  We need to diversify the community and we are aware of               
 that.  But we also need a stable, major employer here when we're              
 learning how to do it.  And yes, I agree, LP is a profit making               
 company and I want to know when profit became a dirty word because            
 profit buys my groceries locally, profit has bought land for me in            
 Craig which is on Prince of Wales Island, it's bought a condo for             
 me in Ketchikan, it supports my family and a profit keeps my                  
 neighbors in business.  The timber industry dollars help support              
 Southeast.  Timber is a sustainable and renewable resource and it's           
 my hope that this contract will be extended.  Thank you."                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would hear testimony             
 from the Sitka teleconference site.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1662                                                                   
                                                                               
 CLARICE JOHNSON testified from Sitka that she is strongly opposed             
 to the resolution to extend the KPC contract.  She said, "Extending           
 a contract to a company with such a poor environmental record is              
 not in the best interest of most Alaskans.  It is time to quit                
 subsidizing an industry which has been detrimental to other uses of           
 the forest.  I have fished commercially for over 20 years and I               
 realize that my livelihood is dependent upon a healthy fish                   
 habitat.  Members of the legislature have supported slashing the              
 budget of the Habitat Division in Fish and Game.  It is time for              
 you to recognize the importance of the many industries, recreation            
 and subsistence users who depend upon the remaining old growth                
 stands.  The Forest Service is attempting to balance the needs of             
 these various groups in the Tongass Land Management Plan.  It seems           
 wiser to wait for the alternatives to be released before writing a            
 resolution which includes a recommendation for an artificially high           
 volume of timber."                                                            
                                                                               
 MS. JOHNSON continued, "And one more point.  The record salmon runs           
 are a result of favorable ocean conditions and record hatchery                
 production.  As the study by the Forest Service points out, when              
 the ocean conditions change, the health of the habitat become more            
 critical.  Thank you."                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1755                                                                   
                                                                               
 PAGE ELSE testified from Sitka and stated, "I think the legislature           
 has a responsibility to assess and protect the resources of this              
 state for the best economic future for everyone.  I think that this           
 resolution is sponsored out of sympathy for the timber industry               
 without an adequate understanding of the resources that are really            
 there.  We've heard this lock up of the total acreage of the                  
 Tongass  - the 15 million acres, but what we have to understand is            
 that the money is made off only the old growth, the high volume               
 stands.  There's very, very little of that left in the Tongass.               
 The historical harvest levels were well over the 35 million or                
 thousand board feet an acre figure (indisc.).  And so much of that            
 is gone today (indisc.) that supports the wildlife habitat and the            
 fisheries that our future economy depends upon.  You wouldn't give            
 a contract to a gold company to harvest 20 tons of gold if you knew           
 there were only 3 tons of gold in the ground and you needed it for            
 medical equipment.  And these are numbers that you can get from the           
 Forest Service.  Ask them how much of the total acreage of the                
 Tongass is rock and ice.  Ask them how much volume six and seven is           
 left and then you need to make a decision about the best use of               
 that remaining resource."                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. ELSE further stated, "What we need for KPC is not a contract              
 extension because that would build up false economic hope.  You'd             
 have people moving into Ketchikan thinking they'd have a long-term            
 future in the timber industry and then it would run out.  There               
 just isn't enough timber left that can economically be harvested.             
 So what we need is a transition plan to move to a smaller scale of            
 logging that's value added, that keeps the jobs and the profits in            
 Southeast Alaska.  Furthermore, I think the people that do that               
 industry should be citizens that don't pollute, that don't degrade            
 the environment.  KPC has a long history of environmental                     
 violations of putting out toxic compounds into the water that are             
 going to cut into the value of our fisheries and our tourism and as           
 citizens of Alaska, we're going to be paying for the cost of that             
 for a long time into the future.  Thank you."                                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said that because of the number of people                
 signed up to testify in Ketchikan, he would continue to take                  
 testimony from there.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1947                                                                   
                                                                               
 HEATHER MUENCH testified from Ketchikan stating, "I have lived in             
 Ketchikan for 17 years and my children are fed on timber dollars.             
 The strong, viable timber industry is very crucial to the Ketchikan           
 area.  Part of keeping the timber industry strong is having a pulp            
 mill here.  Over 2,900 direct and indirect jobs are created by the            
 timber industry in the Ketchikan area.  Without KPC's presence,               
 about one-third of all jobs in Ketchikan will disappear.  That's              
 teachers, doctors, grocery store clerks, everyone in town.                    
 Everyone in the community will suffer negatively from the pulp mill           
 closure and I strongly urge the extension of the pulp mill contract           
 for the benefit of Ketchikan's economy and so that my children can            
 continue to live here.  Thank you very much."                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2029                                                                   
                                                                               
 TOM FOUTS testified via teleconference from Ketchikan said his                
 testimony was in the form of a letter to Governor Knowles and                 
 President Clinton as follows:  "Dear President Clinton and Governor           
 Knowles.  Enclosed please find a copy of Alaska HJR 64 as presented           
 the Alaska Legislature on March 25 and a greatly expanded work                
 draft presented to me during yesterday's invitational Resource                
 Committee hearing.  It was impossible for anyone who had not seen             
 the revised work draft to comment on it intelligently and                     
 thoughtfully.  The amended resolution is extremely convoluted and             
 inflammatory like the 50-year agreement between LPK and the                   
 national Forest Service, it no longer provides peace and harmony.             
 This irresponsible revised HJR 64 exacerbates the polarization                
 clause of the 50-year contract to the point where its (indisc.) by            
 LPK supporters may become real.  We must make HJR 64 livable for              
 all U.S. citizens while bringing the LPK contract into the twenty-            
 first century.  We all know that KPU has a dismal environmental               
 record, not just in Ketchikan but worldwide.  The environmental               
 buck must stop here.  We're here to consider a 15-year extension to           
 KPC presumably as an incentive for them to clean up the mess                  
 they've been making for 40 years.  KPC hasn't complied for 40                 
 years.  What guarantee does another 15-year extension provide?                
 More procrastination?  More fines?  More whining?  Business as                
 usual?  I actually have no problem with a 15-year extension to                
 KPC's contract provided there are guarantees on both sides of the             
 contract.  KPC must ensure fair compensation for the loss to the              
 U.S.  KPC must stay current with the environmental law.  KPC must             
 provide at least the current number of jobs and a dignified pay               
 raise that will support family values.  KPC must be in harmony with           
 the community providing quality timber to the region so the local             
 lumber yards aren't supplying timber from Canada, Idaho, etc.  The            
 Forest Service must adhere to industry standards scaling methods              
 for both (indisc.) and pulp logs.  This would relieve most of the             
 tension regarding quotas.  KPC must help to diversify our economy             
 so that our wood (indisc.) are thrown into a panic when the mill              
 groans.  Most of all, a good contract must stimulate competition so           
 that Southeastern Alaskans have the tools necessary to remain                 
 competitive and financially solvent.  Governor Knowles, thank you             
 for reserving judgment on HJR 64.  Without modification it is truly           
 divisive and draconian.  President Clinton, I urge you to sustain             
 the forest to protect the Tongass and its citizens.  Deal with                
 Louisiana Pacific eye-to-eye.  Southeast Alaska's economic basis is           
 changing.  We have more people and less timber dependence.  As                
 every job (indisc.), our population has been increasing.  Property            
 values have increased dramatically.  I am concerned with personal             
 safety and welfare of those Alaskans who oppose free rein for                 
 Louisiana Pacific.  Do we have to have a federal marshall here to             
 ensure the laws are applied evenly?  It is ironic that I may be               
 forced to use my permanent fund provided by the legislature to                
 protect our country's resources from that legislature.  Thank you."           
                                                                               
 Number 2274                                                                   
                                                                               
 ERIC MUENCH testified from Ketchikan in support of CS HJR 64.  He             
 said, "We need that pulp mill here and I would like to emphasize              
 that the 40 years of logging we've had in Southeast has not hurt              
 the wildlife or the fish down here.  Prince of Wales Island, for              
 example, where some of the most intense logging has taken place in            
 the last 40 years and right now there's more population there and             
 more hunter access than there was 34 years ago when I came to                 
 Alaska and yet the bag limits on deer are the same as they were               
 then.  As far as fish is concerned in the last ten years, most of             
 those years have been record or near record catches of pink and               
 chum salmon.  Those are the fish that are both in contact with the            
 timber harvest because they more than any other fish occupy the               
 smaller streams found by the island system in Southeast.  And those           
 are also the fish that are not produced by the hatcheries.  As far            
 as the wages are concerned or as far as -- when it comes to                   
 pollution, I notice that salmon still swim to Ward Cove to get up             
 Ward Creek to spawn and I notice that lichens which are very                  
 pollution sensitive plants are still to be found in the trees right           
 across the highway from the pulp mill."                                       
                                                                               
 MR. MUENCH further stated, "When it comes to wages, we cannot                 
 sacrifice the wages of the logging industry which depends on a mere           
 10 percent of the Tongass National Forest to try to build up the              
 forest industry which already has over 90 percent of the Tongass              
 and over 92 percent of Southeast to recreate in.  The 8 to 12                 
 months a year of good wages provided by the logging operations and            
 the mills are such as to maintain families at a good living                   
 standard.  The tourism industry, for the most part, provides three            
 to four months per year, mostly at minimum wage jobs.  As far as              
 utilization goes, I work in timber management and when it comes to            
 the logging of domestic....                                                   
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-51, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MUENCH continued..."if we were forced to leave pulp logs in the           
 woods, they would be an additional barrier to deer to using the               
 clearcut and it is better to get full utilization while you're in             
 there."                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 053                                                                    
                                                                               
 DALE ROGERS testified via teleconference from Ketchikan.  He said,            
 "As a lifelong, born and raised in Ketchikan resident, I stand                
 opposed to the 15-year extension on logging in Southeastern Alaska            
 by Ketchikan Pulp Company.  KPC has been a poor corporate neighbor            
 with the amount of pollution they've been causing and now they've             
 been paying for it and have to clean up their act, so to speak.               
 KPC knew when they started they had only 50 years on the timber               
 contracts and should have been planning for the end.  Now they're             
 trying to get along and pay more into their system by cleaning up             
 their act.  A lot of these employees at KPC and the timber industry           
 in this area came from other areas like Washington, Oregon and                
 California when their timber cutting slowed down, knowing all along           
 that Southeast Alaska had a limited amount of time in timber left             
 in the Southeast Alaska and KPC contracts.  Those employees should            
 now start thinking about what they want to do or where they want to           
 go when and should the pulp mill close in 2004."                              
                                                                               
 MR. ROGERS further stated, "I worked in the tourism industry the              
 last year and people coming here as tourists were horrified by the            
 clearcutting and pollution that's been going on in Southeast                  
 Alaska.  They've been led to believe that our area is pristine and            
 natural because of what their so-called "view corridor" where the             
 ships travel through Southeastern Alaska.  But upon taking an                 
 airplane flight - flightseeing - they're aghast to see what has               
 really happened.  The sport fishing and tourism industries cannot             
 continue to grow if we cannot provide these people with the                   
 experience they have come here for.  Most areas in Southeastern               
 Alaska are now affected by the timber cutting and the coastlines of           
 most islands are within the view of clearcuts from the water.  It's           
 not a pretty sight and tourists then again are aghast and I am too.           
 Let's try to leave it with a little more pristine looks and nature.           
 I believe that the timber industry can continue in Southeastern but           
 on a smaller scale with value-added timber jobs (indisc.) in favor            
 of giving KPC 15 years more in contracts.  Thank you very much."              
                                                                               
 Number 243                                                                    
                                                                               
 CLIFF TARO, President, Southeast Stevedoring Corporation, testified           
 via teleconference from Ketchikan.  He stated, "Having lived in               
 Ketchikan for over 44 years, we know what Ketchikan was like before           
 Ketchikan Pulp Company was built and operating.  It was a small               
 fishing village with limited supplies, schools, transportation and            
 so forth.  The promise of the contract for a 50-year timber supply            
 has not been maintained due to litigation, politics and so forth.             
 Thus Ketchikan Pulp Company should receive an extension of their              
 contract to fulfill their anticipated volume not provided in their            
 50 years of operation.  Millions of dollars, above the $54 million            
 to build the mill, has been expended for environmental reasons                
 without any added benefits to the production of pulp or the income            
 to the stockholders with that amount expended.  An extension will             
 give them some compensation.  The Ketchikan community and area                
 needs the continuation of Ketchikan Pulp Company.  It is the                  
 backbone of Ketchikan's economic existence.  And from a business              
 standpoint, to invest the necessary dollars for such a short time,            
 the return does not make fiscal sense without a 15-year extension             
 of the contract.  Thank you."                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 350                                                                    
                                                                               
 ROYCE RANNIGER testified from Ketchikan that he has listened to the           
 testimony regarding the pollution from the pulp mill and said, "I             
 worked at the mill from 1959 to 1977 and saw an awful lot of                  
 changes (indisc.).  You don't operate a pulp mill without a certain           
 amount of pollution just due to the situation.  I'm in favor of the           
 extension from the standpoint that they're entering into a system             
 now of chlorine free operation and they're not even really positive           
 that it's going to work 100 percent, but they're putting up the               
 money.  And when you put up the money, you've got to go to your               
 banker and the bankers say, `Well, where are you going to get the             
 timber?'  You got to give them the timber so they can pay the bill            
 off.  And these people talk about the pollution and stuff - they              
 should have been around in `55 when the mill started.  Due to the             
 technology, it's changed and they changed with the laws and they              
 changed with the technology.  I saw millions of dollars invested in           
 that mill - I was involved in a lot of it.  I get awfully tired of            
 these `Johnny come lately' carpetbaggers telling us what in the               
 hell we're doing around here.  That mill is a good neighbor."                 
                                                                               
 MR. RANNIGER continued, "The last four years, I've been commercial            
 fishing.  I own a business here in Ketchikan that relies on                   
 tourism, that relies on the timber industry and it relies on                  
 commercial fishing because they all do business with me.  And this            
 community can live very well with every one of them.  You know,               
 with regards to the fishing, look at my nephew (indisc.) again this           
 year, they're getting less money than last year per pound because             
 there's so damn much fish and I don't understand their game.  If              
 people want to worry about the fishery, let's go out there and talk           
 to the trawlers out on the ocean that are causing some problems.              
 There's where a lot of your ecological problems come from."                   
                                                                               
 Number 519                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced that because some of the committee             
 members would have to leave, he would continue to take testimony              
 from Ketchikan until 6:00 p.m. and then from the remaining two                
 people wishing to testify in Juneau.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 536                                                                    
                                                                               
 PHIL MCELROY testified from Ketchikan that he has been an employee            
 of the Ketchikan Pulp Company since 1970 with the exception of a              
 couple years.  He said his grandparents came to Ketchikan in the              
 early `50s and his grandfather helped build the mill.  Since that             
 time, three of his uncles, his father and brother and several                 
 cousins worked for KPC.  His father retired from there and his                
 daughter worked at the mill as a summer hire student.  Ketchikan              
 Pulp Company is his life and has supported most of his family as              
 well as many of the hard working men and women of Ketchikan for               
 many years.  He said KPC needs the 15-year extension to the timber            
 contract in order to survive.  He thinks their legislators have               
 tried hard to get timber to the mill, but they need help.  He asked           
 committee members to support the 15-year contract extension.                  
                                                                               
 Number 677                                                                    
                                                                               
 KEITH STUMP, Attorney and Owner of a sailboat chartering business,            
 testified from Ketchikan that he is a 47-year resident of Alaska;             
 born and raised in Ketchikan.  He said, "I think the amount of                
 false and misleading statements by some of the opponents of HJR 64            
 is really unfortunate.  One particular example that galls me were             
 the false statements that lady claimed the fisheries have been                
 suffering by logging and road building.  (Indisc.) filed on his               
 reports concluding there had been an adverse impact on fisheries,             
 I would refer to his qualitative impact not the quantitative.                 
 Quantitative studies - studies that quantify any adverse impact of            
 logging on salmon production simply don't support a conclusion that           
 timber harvesting and road building has had any significant or                
 measurable impact on the natural fish production in Southeast                 
 Alaska.  If timber harvesting and road construction had an adverse            
 impact, you'd expect to see smaller fish returns in streams of                
 heavily logged areas.  This is simply not so.  You can see for                
 yourself if you go out and view these salmon returns in the Harris            
 River in the (indisc.) Valley on Prince of Wales Island, one of the           
 most heavily logged (indisc.) systems on that island and in all of            
 Southeast Alaska.  The fish returns there do not support a                    
 conclusion that there's an adverse impact.  You can learn more for            
 yourself if you go by and check out the fish return statistics                
 throughout the whole Southeast Alaska - there is not a significant            
 or measurable reduction in areas that have been harvested."                   
                                                                               
 MR. STUMP further stated, "Another fellow was saying that logging             
 dried up the stream.  This issue was studied extensively by multi-            
 agency, multi-disciplinary groups, including the fisheries industry           
 and environmental groups and after extensive study and debate, it             
 was conclusively determined that if there was any adverse                     
 qualitative impact - and I say qualitative impact - on stream                 
 temperature that it is so insignificant here in Southeast Alaska              
 that there's no measurable quantitative impact.  The biological               
 timber production capability in the Tongass National Forest is 1.2            
 billion board feet per year into perpetuity - forever - and that's            
 what could be done.  To ask for just one-third of that, I think is            
 not too much and I fully support HJR 64 in hopes that it can                  
 provide the ability for the pulp mill here to put in the additional           
 money for the environmental protection and to go (indisc.)."                  
                                                                               
 Number 843                                                                    
                                                                               
 MATT HEMMINGWAY testified from Ketchikan saying, "I don't have any            
 studies to cite or anything, I'm just an industrial painter on one            
 of the crews.  If you guys don't get this extension, then you're              
 going to put five more painters out of work.  All this thing about            
 tourism (indisc.), you may not have been here during the summer               
 when they all leave on the boat and we've got to wade through the             
 trash that they leave laying everywhere.  I hope you do extend it             
 and I do support it.  Thank you."                                             
                                                                               
 Number 898                                                                    
                                                                               
 BRUCE ROMINE, Pipefitter, testified from Ketchikan that he has                
 worked at the Ketchikan Pulp Company for nine and one-half years.             
 He said, "I'm an officer of Local 783, WPPW, the largest union at             
 KPC.  I was born and raised here in Ketchikan and I've lived here             
 most of my life.  I like living in this community and I'm raising             
 my family here.  I like the way the community has grown over the              
 years.  It's kind of developed into what it is today because there            
 were individuals in this state that had the foresight to bring                
 industry in that use our renewable resources of which we have an              
 abundance.  This town is built around the economy that the pulp               
 mill has brought to us folks and without it this town will change             
 just like many in Oregon, Washington and Montana - people without             
 work, families without the money to pay for homes and necessities.            
 I'm sick and tired of hearing and reading about how the                       
 environmentalists are going to take everything we want.  What do              
 they want?  They want Ketchikan Pulp Company out of here - that's             
 for sure.  The excuse they use is the pollution of water and air              
 and use of all of our natural resources.  Basically what they're              
 saying is that they don't believe that we, the working people at              
 the pulp mill, will police the mill and keep pollution at a                   
 minimum.  Remember this - we all live here too and I, for one,                
 don't want to live in a pollution dirty community."                           
                                                                               
 MR. ROMINE continued, "We have the union working with the pulp mill           
 management and governmental agencies to bring our pulp mill into              
 compliance with all the standards that have been set forth.  The              
 pulp mill is spending millions of dollars in construction on a new            
 chlorine free facility and intends to spend up to $200 million more           
 to make this pulp mill as pollution free as possible and Local 783            
 will be there to help make this a reality.  In order for a company            
 like KPC to make (indisc.) an expenditure like $200 million, they             
 need to know what they in the future are going to be able to recoup           
 that money and make some profits along with it.  If not, it would             
 be only prudent to the stockholders for them to close the plant               
 down.  The solution is simple - KPC is asking for a 15-year                   
 extension on the contract.  Personally, I don't think that that is            
 a long enough extension but that is what they've asked for so like            
 I say, give it to them and then see how KPC, under the direction of           
 the new CEO treats our environment and our community.  We will be             
 there to monitor whatever happens.  I say that it is time to fight            
 for your community, your homes and your jobs.  Sitka's pulp mill is           
 now history and if the environmentalists have their way here, our             
 timber industry will be history also.  I've watched many people               
 come to KPC for work - looking for a stable job."                             
                                                                               
 Number 1095                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROBERT BUCKNELL testified from Ketchikan that he was born in                  
 Ketchikan 38 years ago and has lived there his whole life.  He                
 stated, "I've been employed at the Ketchikan Pulp Company for the             
 last 19 years and that's afforded me the opportunity to live a very           
 nice lifestyle and to start raising a family here in Ketchikan and            
 buy a home.  I fully support this 15-year extension because I'd               
 like to continue to live here in Ketchikan and raise my family in             
 the manner that I was raised.  Everybody talks about tourism and it           
 being a viable alternative to the timber industry and I do not see            
 that as most tourism jobs are minimum wage or $6.00 an hour jobs              
 (indisc.) $20.00 an hour jobs that the timber industry supplies.              
 As far as the environment goes, Ketchikan Pulp Company has spent              
 hundreds of millions of dollars and is spending hundreds of                   
 millions of dollars to upgrade and comply with all environmental              
 laws.  I'd like to see the contract extended for 15 years so that             
 I can continue to live and work and raise my family in Ketchikan.             
 Thank you."                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1161                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS remarked that he was losing committee members,           
 but he would like to give the two remaining individuals in Juneau             
 an opportunity to testify.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1178                                                                   
                                                                               
 AMY SKILBRED urged committee members to vote against CS HJR 64.               
 She said, "The 50-year contract was signed in a different era.                
 Knowledge about effects on fish and wildlife were minimal.  Tourism           
 was not even a fledgling industry.  Times have changed and we now             
 know that logging activities are harmful for fish and wildlife and            
 tourism and subsistence.  We must change the way we conduct timber            
 harvesting to preserve the small portion of old growth forest that            
 are left in the Tongass National Forest.  Now is a transition                 
 opportunity.  Southeast Alaska has nine years to work on a smooth             
 transition from dependence on one multi-national corporation, which           
 receives a huge federal subsidy in order to operate, to a multi-              
 faceted economy built on fishing, tourism, hunting, subsistence               
 activities and small scale, independent logging operations.  The              
 legislature should not sign off on a resolution that will result in           
 long-term harm to one group of Alaskans for short-term benefit to             
 the pulp mill and a small group of Alaskans."                                 
                                                                               
 MS. SKILBRED further stated, "Much has been heard about the acres             
 in the Tongass National Forest.  Less than 700,000 acres of Tongass           
 National Forest are high volume old growth forest.  So the argument           
 here on forests is always over that limited 700,000 acres, not the            
 rock and ice which tourists don't often go to.  It's over the acres           
 that are necessary to deer, wildlife, fishing, tourism, subsistence           
 and they are the most valuable acres to the timber companies.  We             
 all recognize that and in the paper there's always this 17 million            
 acres, 15 million acres for tourism and a bitty 2 million acres               
 left for logging.  But we all have to recognize that we are talking           
 about the same areas that are important for fish, wildlife,                   
 tourism, subsistence and the timber companies.  It's time for KPC             
 to install the environmental protection equipment it needs to clean           
 up its act now and if it can't compete in the future, at the end of           
 the 50-year contract, KPC should work now on transition plans to              
 help all of Southeast Alaska.  Thank you very much."                          
                                                                               
 Number 1316                                                                   
                                                                               
 KURT BODENBENDER testified that, "I think my side of this has been            
 well stated and I'm not going to reiterate that.  Excuse me, but              
 government and committees are new to me and I'm just curious about            
 your whole process and if these are the other people in the                   
 committee, I'm curious about where they are and what their                    
 commitments are right now.  I'm also curious about - I know that              
 it's been a long couple of hours for you and you've listened to a             
 lot of different people, but I feel like some people haven't been             
 heard well enough.  So, I'm curious about answers to those                    
 questions and whether or not there are people here who should be              
 here and that's my main issue."                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1380                                                                   
                                                                               
 BILL THOMAS testified that he was born and raised in Alaska 49                
 years ago.  He'd been a commercial fisherman for 27 years and                 
 participated in the logging industry about the same amount of time            
 of which five or six years of that was actual logging.  He lost a             
 brother in the timber industry in 1972.  He stated,  "I'm on the              
 Haines Borough Assembly and the school board and that's what I'm              
 going to speak about in my concerns, even though they are not                 
 formal positions of the borough or the school board.  The concern             
 is that we are looking at declining revenues from the state as far            
 as revenue sharing and if you tie that in with the Tongass Forest             
 receipts losses, a poor year in the fishing industry as far as                
 prices, that will add to the cost of running our local governments.           
 We get about $400,000 a year from the Tongass; about $350,000 from            
 the raw fish tax.  Without those, we'll have to add additional mill           
 rates to the local people or a sales tax to make up the difference.           
 This is not a formal position of the Haines Borough, but mine alone           
 because I am concerned and I support the extension of the contract,           
 provided they have Alaska local contractors doing the work down               
 there.  Thank you."                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1463                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record the following individuals           
 from Ketchikan were in support of HJR 64 but were unable to testify           
 due to the committee running out of time:  Henry Metcalf; Marty               
 Gillet; David Martin; Henry Keene; Jerry Collins; Mike Speelman;              
 Steve Hemminger; Maxine Doyle; Katy French; Bill Elberson; and                
 Shawn Richardson.  Co-Chairman Williams thanked everyone for their            
 testimony and closed the meeting to public testimony.                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced he would like to move CS HJR 64 out            
 of committee if possible and inquired as to the wishes of the                 
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1494                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN made a motion to move CS HJR 64(RES) out            
 of committee with individual recommendations.  Representative                 
 Davies objected.                                                              
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked for a roll call vote.  Voting in favor             
 of the motion were Representatives Austerman, Kott, Long, Ogan,               
 Green and Williams.  Voting against the motion was Representative             
 Davies.  He announced that CS HJR 64(RES) was moved from the House            
 Resources Committee with individual recommendations.                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects