Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124

05/01/2017 03:15 PM LABOR & COMMERCE

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03:17:56 PM Start
03:18:45 PM HB230
04:05:53 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
          HB 230-TELECOMMUNICATIONS & INTERNET PRIVACY                                                                      
3:18:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KITO  announced that  the only order  of business  would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  230, "An Act  relating to the collection  of customer                                                               
information   by   telecommunications    and   Internet   service                                                               
providers; and  establishing an unfair  trade practice  under the                                                               
Alaska Unfair Trade Practices and Consumer Protection Act."                                                                     
3:19:37 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRIET DRUMMOND,  Alaska  State Legislature,  as                                                               
the prime sponsor introduced HB 230.  She spoke as follows:                                                                     
     House  Bill 230  is  legislation  aimed at  maintaining                                                                    
     Alaskans'  Internet   privacy.    House  Bill   230  is                                                                    
     designed  to  keep  any telecommunications  service  or                                                                    
     Internet  service  provider  from  collecting  personal                                                                    
     information of  a private customer without  the consent                                                                    
     of the  customer in  order to  protect the  privacy and                                                                    
     individual liberty of every Alaskan.   Alaska is one of                                                                    
     the  most independent  states in  the  union, which  is                                                                    
     reflected  by   the  citizens  who   live  here.     As                                                                    
     technology  continues  to  change rapidly,  HB  230  is                                                                    
     needed to protect our  constitutional right to privacy.                                                                    
     House Bill  230 will  protect the privacy  of Alaskans'                                                                    
     personal information  stored on a  cyber-based utility.                                                                    
     I  believe  this   bill  is  the  best   way  to  start                                                                    
     addressing Internet  privacy concerns.   My  office has                                                                    
     received  a  lot  of  calls  and  e-mails  from  people                                                                    
     concerned  with the  privacy rollbacks  enacted at  the                                                                    
     federal level  recently and  this is  an area  where we                                                                    
     cannot   afford  to   take  a   wait-and-see  approach.                                                                    
     Technology moves much faster  than legislation and so I                                                                    
     want to  thank you again  for taking this bill  up this                                                                    
     late in the session.                                                                                                       
3:21:16 PM                                                                                                                    
PATRICK  FITZGERALD,  Staff,   Representative  Harriet  Drummond,                                                               
Alaska State  Legislature, on behalf of  Representative Drummond,                                                               
prime  sponsor, provided  further  introduction of  HB  230.   He                                                               
noted  that  cell phones,  computers,  laptops,  and tablets  are                                                               
modern tools  used by  private citizens  to conduct  commerce and                                                               
trading.    Online  shopping  and bill  paying  are  popular  and                                                               
provide  easy  accessibility  to  businesses.   He  continued  as                                                               
     Many  of these  devices have  the capability  to retain                                                                    
     memory, on any account  number, Social Security number,                                                                    
     credit  card  information,   medical  information,  and                                                                    
     online purchases,  just to list  a few.  Passing  of HB
     230   would  put   into  law   that  telecommunications                                                                    
     companies and Internet service  providers must be given                                                                    
     consent by  the user  of the  service or  device before                                                                    
     collecting,  selling, trading,  or gifting  information                                                                    
     entered by  a private  citizen.  [House  Bill} prevents                                                                    
     discrimination of  any user who  declines to  allow the                                                                    
     sharing    of     personal    information     by    the                                                                    
     telecommunications   companies  and   Internet  service                                                                    
     providers.    House  Bill 230  simply  restricts  large                                                                    
     companies from selling  information of private citizens                                                                    
     to the highest bidder without  the consent of the user.                                                                    
     Passing  HB 230  will assure  users of  cyber-connected                                                                    
     devices that  no information  is collected  without the                                                                    
     express written  consent of the  user.  House  Bill 230                                                                    
     keeps  Alaskan  information   private,  preserving  the                                                                    
     privacy and independence of every Alaskan.                                                                                 
3:22:42 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES asked  whether telecommunications companies                                                               
in  other states  are collecting,  selling, or  distributing this                                                               
MR. FITZGERALD  replied that he participated  in a teleconference                                                               
with states that are also  pushing this legislation through their                                                               
state legislatures and was told  that 12 other states had similar                                                               
legislation.    States on  the  call  included Maryland,  Hawaii,                                                               
Montana,  Washington, Connecticut,  Pennsylvania, and  Alaska, he                                                               
related.   There  is fear  of  large companies  like Comcast  and                                                               
CenturyLink.   He  said  he has  talked  to representatives  from                                                               
local  telecommunications and  Internet service  providers (ISPs)                                                               
in  Alaska  who said  they  do  not  sell or  distribute  private                                                               
information.   This  bill,  he stressed,  is not  in  any way  an                                                               
accusation that  they do that  or might do  that.  The  bill just                                                               
puts in  protection that  people will  be aware  of opting  in or                                                               
opting out of the distribution of their information.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES  offered her  understanding that HB  230 is                                                               
an action as opposed to a reaction.                                                                                             
MR. FITZGERALD responded, "Yes."                                                                                                
3:24:15 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH stated he is  encouraged to learn that it is                                                               
not a response  to a problem.   He said he has a  fact sheet that                                                               
says it is already illegal to  sell or share consumer personal or                                                               
sensitive  information.   He  therefore asked  what  the bill  is                                                               
trying to  accomplish if it is  not responding to a  situation of                                                               
information being compromised.                                                                                                  
MR. FITZGERALD answered  that all the legality  concepts or terms                                                               
are on  the federal  level; Alaska has  no statutes  that protect                                                               
Alaskans  from any  sort of  information  collecting or  sharing.                                                               
The sponsor, he  explained, is putting in the bill  [to create] a                                                               
state  mandate so  anything  that happens  on  the federal  level                                                               
doesn't result in Alaska having to  react to something.  It would                                                               
be a state level of protection.                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH offered his  understanding that if something                                                               
were illegal  at the federal  level it  would also be  illegal at                                                               
the state level.                                                                                                                
MR. FITZGERALD replied  that many of the  states participating in                                                               
the teleconference  made it clear  that with the rollback  of the                                                               
previous  presidential  administration's  Federal  Communications                                                               
Commission (FCC)  regulation, they were concerned  about more FCC                                                               
regulations  changing.   The  common thread  in  these bills,  he                                                               
said,  is a  prevention  of  anything that  would  change on  the                                                               
federal level to protect the citizens of the states.                                                                            
3:26:22 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP  noted that  for every  computer application                                                               
or program  there are  terms of  use that  require [the  user to]                                                               
check a box in agreement, which  has been done since invention of                                                               
the  Internet, so  it  is widely  done.   He  further noted  that                                                               
global   positioning  systems   (GPS)   on   cell  phones   track                                                               
everything.   He said he is  therefore trying to figure  out whom                                                               
this is going to apply to and what  they are going to have to do.                                                               
He requested  further details on  the bill  and asked who  is not                                                               
notifying customers about data collection.                                                                                      
MR. FITZGERALD responded that essentially  HB 230 would create an                                                               
opt-in/opt-out  concept for  the data  sharing.   Essentially the                                                               
practice of it  would be another box that someone  would check to                                                               
say that  the company does  not have  permission to share  any of                                                               
the user's personal information.                                                                                                
3:28:27 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE SULLIVAN-LEONARD,  regarding what is  prompting HB
230,  inquired   whether  something   has  happened   within  the                                                               
telecommunications world  where information has  been sold.   She                                                               
related that  according to all  the information she  has received                                                               
thus far, FCC and Federal  Trade Commission (FTC) regulations are                                                               
being followed.                                                                                                                 
MR.  FITZGERALD answered  that  it  is just  a  state barrier  if                                                               
anything were  to change  on the federal  level that  would allow                                                               
companies to  sell or share  information of  private individuals.                                                               
The  bill would  already protect  all Alaskans  from having  that                                                               
happen to them.                                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE SULLIVAN-LEONARD  asked whether  at this  point in                                                               
time the sponsor has a record  of anything being sold through the                                                               
telecommunications systems.                                                                                                     
MR. FITZGERALD replied  no and clarified that this is  not at all                                                               
an "us  versus the telecommunications  companies deal."   He said                                                               
it is just trying to protect  the private citizens of Alaska from                                                               
having their information shared.                                                                                                
3:29:47 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  inquired  about  what  information  is                                                               
being referred to.  For example,  he said, he ordered the size 44                                                               
long sports  coat that he is  wearing, and it was  delivered down                                                               
the hall  to suite 102.   He inquired whether  it is a  matter of                                                               
not wanting other companies to know  he wears a 44-long coat or a                                                               
matter of not wanting others to know he is in suite 102.                                                                        
MR.  FITZGERALD  responded  that   personal  information  is  not                                                               
defined in  the bill currently;  it is just  personal information                                                               
in  general.    According  to   Legislative  Legal  and  Research                                                               
Services, he related,  if there is no specific  definition in the                                                               
bill  then the  definition in  the  dictionary is  what would  be                                                               
referred  to.   He  said  the  sponsor  is  open to  receiving  a                                                               
friendly  committee  substitute  (CS) that  uses  the  definition                                                               
found in AS 40.25.350, which states:                                                                                            
     "personal information" means  information that could be                                                                    
     used to identify a person  and from which judgments can                                                                    
     be   made   about   a   person's   character,   habits,                                                                    
     avocations,  finances, occupation,  general reputation,                                                                    
     credit, health, or  other personal characteristics, but                                                                    
     does  not   include  a   person's  name,   address,  or                                                                    
     telephone  number,  if the  number  is  published in  a                                                                    
     current    telephone    dictionary,   or    information                                                                    
     describing a public job held by a person;                                                                                  
MR. FITZGERALD noted that by  that definition, what is not wanted                                                               
to happen, for  example, is if someone should  start having heart                                                               
issues and  by virtue of  logging into sites with  their computer                                                               
their  information  is  distributed  and sold,  and  their  inbox                                                               
becomes  the  target  of  thousands  of  entities  selling  heart                                                               
3:32:10 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  inquired whether this horse  hasn't already                                                               
left the  barn and asked  what change  HB 230 would  bring about.                                                               
For example, he said, Google  has a half-trillion-dollar business                                                               
where  "googling" sports  coats results  in numerous  sports coat                                                               
providers that magically zero in and  show up.  It seems like the                                                               
disclosure part is  pretty well protected at a  federal level, he                                                               
posited.  As  for the commercial aspects,  including the tracking                                                               
of people,  he said he is  convinced they know a  lot about every                                                               
person.    He opined  that  HB  230  is  not necessary  and  that                                                               
commercial enterprises  are successful  because they know  what a                                                               
person buys.                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND  answered that  shopping on  the Internet                                                               
forces  users to  reveal a  lot of  personal information,  credit                                                               
cards  being an  example.   She said  it is  not because  of what                                                               
happened to  her and  her family that  she introduced  this bill,                                                               
but over a year ago charges showed  up on her debit card bill for                                                               
four  nights in  a Jakarta  hotel.   Thankfully her  credit union                                                               
alerted  her to  the charges,  which  occurred while  she was  in                                                               
Juneau for a special session.   Personal information is regularly                                                               
being  transmitted  across  the inter-webs,  she  continued,  and                                                               
somehow that  personal information  is becoming public  and being                                                               
used by people  who do not have other people's  best interests in                                                               
mind.  This is only part of  what she is seeking to protect here,                                                               
she added.  Because Alaska  has such specific issues mentioned in                                                               
the  constitution,  it  is incredibly  important  that  Alaskans'                                                               
privacy be first and foremost.                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH  maintained  that  Alaskans  are  currently                                                               
being protected  to the best extent  possible.  He said  he isn't                                                               
sure the bill is  going to amp it up other  than to maybe confuse                                                               
the public into thinking that  there is some protection out there                                                               
other than what is already afforded.                                                                                            
MR. FITZGERALD stated  the sponsor believes that HB  230 does the                                                               
opposite  of confusing  the public;  it  clarifies what  Internet                                                               
service  providers  and   telecommunications  companies  protect.                                                               
With the  definition of personal  information, he  continued, the                                                               
bill is  specifically saying that the  person's Internet provider                                                               
is  protecting their  information.   Responding to  the statement                                                               
about the many markets that benefit  from being able to find that                                                               
information, he said  he doesn't know what is  or isn't protected                                                               
by his  Internet provider and  so, if anything, HB  230 clarifies                                                               
3:36:49 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   STUTES   inquired   whether  anyone   from   the                                                               
telecommunications industry  would be testifying.   She noted the                                                               
committee   packet  includes   letters  from   the  industry   in                                                               
opposition to  the bill because it  would make their job  so much                                                               
more difficult.   Given the statement  that it would be  a matter                                                               
of checking  a box to  not give  out a person's  information, she                                                               
said she is perplexed about why  it would make the companies' job                                                               
so much more difficult as alluded in their letters.                                                                             
MR. FITZGERALD replied that the  Department of Law has provided a                                                               
zero fiscal note for the bill.   The intent of the bill is to not                                                               
make their  job that much harder,  he said, but to  solidify that                                                               
customers are being  protected.  From what the  sponsor has heard                                                               
from  ISPs and  telecommunications  companies,  they are  already                                                               
doing this.   So, he continued, it shouldn't add  any more burden                                                               
to them  if they are  protecting the  customers the way  they say                                                               
they are.  But, he stressed,  he isn't accusing them of not doing                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES  offered her understanding that  the intent                                                               
with HB 230 is that there  will be a question somewhere along the                                                               
line  [asking   the  company]   not  to   give  out   a  person's                                                               
MR. FITZGERALD  responded that the  sponsor would leave it  up to                                                               
the department  to figure  out the  exact language  of that.   He                                                               
explained it would be something along  the line of, "No, I do not                                                               
give permission for my information to be shared."                                                                               
3:38:48 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP posed a scenario  where he is on a company's                                                               
website looking  for a piece  of equipment,  and then he  goes to                                                               
Facebook and  now ads  are popping  up from  equipment companies.                                                               
That is  data collection,  he said,  as it is  known what  he was                                                               
looking at and now the companies  are marketing to him.  He asked                                                               
whether  that information  is coming  from  the Internet  service                                                               
providers or from  the websites that he browsed, and  his data is                                                               
then sold to Facebook.                                                                                                          
MR.  FITZGERALD answered  that according  to  the information  he                                                               
received from the teleconference, across  the U.S. it is versions                                                               
of both.   Many people have a consensus that  Facebook is a major                                                               
purchaser of information,  he said, and whether it  is being sold                                                               
by an ISP or by an  individual website varies throughout the U.S.                                                               
The Alaska  ISPs and telecommunications  companies he  has talked                                                               
to do not  practice in that sale, he related,  but the only thing                                                               
keeping them from practicing that sale  is their good graces.  If                                                               
HB  230  became  law,  he  said, there  would  be  state  statute                                                               
preventing them from doing that without the person's knowledge.                                                                 
3:40:53 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL, regarding  data sharing,  posed a  scenario                                                               
where  he  goes to  a  website  looking  for something  and  then                                                               
afterwards everywhere  else he goes  has an  ad for the  thing he                                                               
was  looking for.   It  is  very sophisticated  movement of  data                                                               
between  all kinds  of entities,  he  said, and  he doesn't  know                                                               
whether  there  is a  way  to  protect  that shopping  data  from                                                               
visiting  various  store websites.    He  asked whether  shopping                                                               
data,  such as  shopping for  clothing,  would be  blocked so  he                                                               
wouldn't get clothing ads.                                                                                                      
MR. FITZGERALD  replied that  the sponsor  would rather  have the                                                               
department  make the  interpretation  of what  would be  personal                                                               
information based on  the definition that was  previously read to                                                               
the  committee,  especially   regarding  clothes  versus  medical                                                               
3:42:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  KITO  commented  that  it appears  data  is  collected  by                                                               
Facebook as  people are  browsing around  Facebook, by  Google as                                                               
people are browsing the Internet,  and by Amazon as people search                                                               
for items.   None of  those three companies are  Internet service                                                               
providers or telecommunications providers,  but they might be the                                                               
ones  responsible for  collecting  and distributing  any sort  of                                                               
aggregate data  on purchasing history,  he posited.   He inquired                                                               
how restricting  the ability of a  telecommunications provider or                                                               
an Internet  service provider would  protect his data  from being                                                               
sold by Amazon, Google, or Facebook.                                                                                            
MR. FITZGERALD  replied that  it would put  a restriction  on the                                                               
Internet service providers  and telecommunications companies that                                                               
operate in  Alaska.  Since  the aforementioned companies  are all                                                               
headquartered outside  of Alaska, it  is hard for [the  state] to                                                               
be  able to  put  together  regulations against  them.   But,  he                                                               
continued, those restrictions  should be made on  a federal level                                                               
and [the bill] is doing what  can be done to protect the personal                                                               
information with what local control is had.                                                                                     
CHAIR  KITO asked  how something  like  this would  work with  an                                                               
Internet  service provider  or a  telecommunications provider  as                                                               
his understanding is  that they don't originate  or terminate any                                                               
of  the   data  transactions;  they   are  only   the  throughput                                                               
component.   He  noted that  there was  a question  earlier about                                                               
there  being   federal  restrictions  on  what   those  kinds  of                                                               
providers  can do.   He  asked  whether they  are collecting  the                                                               
information  that is  going through  their networks  or are  just                                                               
passing that information through.                                                                                               
MR.  FITZGERALD  responded  that the  telecommunications  company                                                               
representatives he  has talked  to say they  are not  doing that.                                                               
However, he  continued, if federal law  were to allow them  to do                                                               
that, then that  opens it up to the companies  to purchase, sell,                                                               
or trade any  information of any private citizen in  Alaska as of                                                               
right now.   Rather  than HB  230 being  a reaction  to something                                                               
that Alaskans  are vulnerable to,  the bill would  implement this                                                               
now,  so Alaskans  are  protected regardless  of  changes on  the                                                               
federal level.                                                                                                                  
CHAIR  KITO posited  that if  an Internet  service provider  or a                                                               
telecommunications  provider  manages  the highway,  network,  or                                                               
series of tubes  of information that go back and  forth, then the                                                               
packets  of  data  are  like vehicles  with  all  the  personally                                                               
identifiable  information inside  the  vehicles.   The  tollbooth                                                               
operators are not  looking inside the cars to see  what is inside                                                               
the cars  but are just collecting  the money as it  goes through.                                                               
He  said  he is  therefore  trying  to  understand what  kind  of                                                               
personally identifiable information  an ISP or telecommunications                                                               
provider  might  have  that  would   be  of  concern  for  public                                                               
MR. FITZGERALD replied  that most of the information  is found in                                                               
the definition   credit history,  credit card numbers, debit card                                                               
numbers,  Social  Security  numbers,  driver's  license  numbers.                                                               
During the teleconference he attended there  was a lot of talk on                                                               
personal  information of  that sort,  he related.   Other  states                                                               
have  varying   degrees  of  what   is  classified   as  personal                                                               
information  and what's  not.   He  explained that  HB 230  would                                                               
prevent the tollbooth  of the inner web  from searching vehicles.                                                               
If federal regulation  allowed them to search  the vehicles, this                                                               
bill would prevent them from doing that.                                                                                        
3:47:38 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH stated he has  been banking online for about                                                               
10  years with  a banking  company  that bought  out a  long-time                                                               
Alaska bank a number  of years ago.  He asserted  that no ISP has                                                               
accessed any of that information because  it is encrypted.  It is                                                               
more than  just a  vehicle on  a highway, he  continued, it  is a                                                               
package  of information  that basically  goes from  his phone  or                                                               
computer to his  bank and he thinks that is  the same with Amazon                                                               
and anybody else.   They can identify which website  a person was                                                               
in,  but  the  ISP  doesn't   have  access  with  the  encryption                                                               
technology.  Fear  is always a great motivator, he  added, and he                                                               
thinks it needs  to be well grounded, well  founded, and factual.                                                               
He said he  is trying to figure  out how the ISP  is that conduit                                                               
that  could   tap  into  and  access   that  information  because                                                               
otherwise the banking industry would collapse.                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND  responded  that  the  Internet  service                                                               
provider that carried  her credit card information  to that hotel                                                               
in Jakarta needs to acknowledge  that that information is passing                                                               
through its hands,  its wires, its fiber, its  satellite, and how                                                               
her credit card  information got to that hotel in  Jakarta if she                                                               
was physically  not there  and never had  any contact  with those                                                               
people.   Part of  the problem,  she stated,  is that  people are                                                               
putting a lot  of faith and trust in  Internet service providers.                                                               
She said she personally pays them  a ton of money to access these                                                               
services  and her  expectation  is that  they  will preserve  her                                                               
personal information in exchange for that trust.                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH said he is  not convinced that the sponsor's                                                               
ISP  was  the  culprit  in  the  aforementioned  situation.    He                                                               
suggested that  a person could  leave behind a bank  statement or                                                               
there  could be  some  other  way.   Most  credit card  companies                                                               
insure their customers for that sort of problem, he noted.                                                                      
MR. FITZGERALD added  that HB 230 would ensure  that the Internet                                                               
service provider  is not the  culprit because of  the protections                                                               
that it has on personal information.                                                                                            
3:51:15 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP  said  he  does understand  that  ISPs  and                                                               
telecommunications   companies  could   collect  data   and  that                                                               
collecting  and selling  data is  a very  profitable market.   He                                                               
therefore doesn't  discount the bill,  he continued, but  is just                                                               
trying to  understand it.  He  inquired whether there is  any way                                                               
of tracking  where a breach  of information occurred, such  as in                                                               
the case of  the sponsor's credit card.  He  further inquired how                                                               
it  would  be known  if  it  were  an ISP  or  telecommunications                                                               
provider  that  leaked  that information  either  erroneously  or                                                               
MR.  FITZGERALD  answered that  HB  230  basically outlines  what                                                               
personal   information   the   Internet   service   provider   is                                                               
protecting.   So, if said  information is let go,  then hopefully                                                               
the ISP  would be able  to at least  track and notify  the person                                                               
that  that  information  was  leaked somehow.    The  bill  isn't                                                               
necessarily an  antivirus bill  or things  like that,  he stated,                                                               
but   it  does   prevent   the  Internet   service  provider   or                                                               
telecommunications   company  from   selling,  distributing,   or                                                               
trading a person's information.                                                                                                 
3:53:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KITO opened invited testimony.                                                                                            
3:53:16 PM                                                                                                                    
CHRISTINE   O'CONNOR,   Executive  Director,   Alaska   Telephone                                                               
Association, testified  in opposition  to HB 230.   She  said the                                                               
Alaska   Telephone   Association  represents   telecommunications                                                               
companies  and Internet  servers  statewide.   Alaska's  Internet                                                               
service  providers  are  not  selling  private  information,  she                                                               
stated.   They are  vigilant to  protect customer  information as                                                               
well as each of the privacy  policies in place, which is provided                                                               
to  customers when  they  sign  up and  posted  on websites  that                                                               
define how  information is collected  and accessed.   She related                                                               
that customers are  often frustrated at the  additional layers of                                                               
protection  already  required when  they  need  to interact  with                                                               
association   members   about    their   accounts   and   private                                                               
MS.  O'CONNOR   stated  that  both  the   Federal  Communications                                                               
Commission (FCC) and the Federal  Trade Commission (FTC) strictly                                                               
regulate  Internet service  providers in  Alaska, and  that these                                                               
protections are  unchanged by last month's  congressional action.                                                               
She related  that Section 222  of the [Telecommunications  Act of                                                               
1996]  defines  how   customer  proprietary  network  information                                                               
(CPNI) must be  handled.  She explained that CPNI  is how the FCC                                                               
has  defined the  different elements  of private  information and                                                               
that  CPNI  may  be  summarized   generally  as  only  permitting                                                               
disclosure of information  as required by law,  with a customer's                                                               
approval, or in  providing the service requested.   So, there are                                                               
already  opt-in/opt-out provisions  in  place for  CPNI that  all                                                               
association members follow.   Customers receive annual disclosure                                                               
notices from  their providers, she  continued, that  explain what                                                               
these rights  are and that ask  customers if they want  to opt in                                                               
or opt out of the various kinds of information.                                                                                 
MS. O'CONNOR  pointed out  that in 2015  the FCC  issued guidance                                                               
specifically  directing  providers  to   apply  the  Section  222                                                               
regulations to  Internet service  and these protections  have not                                                               
changed.   In addition  to the  FCC, she said,  the FTC  has long                                                               
established privacy  regulations and is vigilant  to identify and                                                               
prosecute companies attempting to violate privacy protection.                                                                   
MS.  O'CONNOR stated  that the  Alaska  Telephone Association  is                                                               
concerned  that HB  230 proposes  to add  a duplicative  layer of                                                               
regulation  and it  could easily  obstruct broadband  service for                                                               
consumers and  substantially increase  provider cost.   She urged                                                               
that at this point HB 230 not be advanced.                                                                                      
3:56:21 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  requested Ms. O'Connor to  explain what                                                               
Congress passed last month.                                                                                                     
MS. O'CONNOR  replied that Congress  essentially undid  the whole                                                               
big net  neutrality, or the  open Internet proceeding,  where the                                                               
FCC  under  Chairman  Wheeler  had  designated  the  Internet  as                                                               
regulated  like  an  old-fashioned  telephone  company  would  be                                                               
regulated.  Up until that  point, she explained, the Internet was                                                               
under  what  was  called light-touch  regulation  as  opposed  to                                                               
traditional  telecom that  has many,  many  layers of  regulation                                                               
that  stipulate exactly  how  things  will be  done  -  a lot  of                                                               
reporting,  a  lot of  expensive  regulation.   Chairman  Wheeler                                                               
changed that  into traditional telecom  regulation, of  which the                                                               
framework  goes back  to [1934],  she  said.   Congress set  that                                                               
aside  and  put  it  back  to  the  status  quo  before  Chairman                                                               
Wheeler's order.   She  pointed out  that it  did not  change the                                                               
privacy  regulations that  [the  Internet  and telecom  industry]                                                               
have been operating under all along.                                                                                            
3:57:58 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   BIRCH  referred   to  the   sponsor's  testimony                                                               
regarding  loss of  credit card  information potentially  through                                                               
the  fault of  an Internet  service provider.   He  requested Ms.                                                               
O'Connor to describe how that  credit card information could show                                                               
up  in  Jakarta  or  elsewhere  and  have  the  Internet  service                                                               
provider at fault.                                                                                                              
MS.  O'CONNOR   responded  that  the  earlier   discussion  about                                                               
encryption  is  accurate.    She  qualified that  she  is  not  a                                                               
technical person,  but she  has seen  recent statistics  that say                                                               
50-70  percent  of all  Internet  traffic  is encrypted  and  all                                                               
banking and all  credit card numbers.  The  vehicles traveling on                                                               
the Internet  highway are actually  armored cars and  ISPs cannot                                                               
see in  them, she said,  and she doesn't know  a way that  an ISP                                                               
could have been  at fault for that.  She  has read trade articles                                                               
about black market/bad actors thieving  from other retail outlets                                                               
and getting  thousands and thousands  of credit card  numbers and                                                               
then stealing them.  About a  year and a half ago, she continued,                                                               
there was  a widely publicized  hack of Target where  the company                                                               
lost hundreds  of thousands of credit  card numbers.  So  that is                                                               
one potential  avenue, she added,  but that is  just speculation.                                                               
She advised that  an ISP cannot see a credit  card number and she                                                               
cannot  conceive  of a  banking  or  other  website that  is  not                                                               
3:59:55 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  said he is not  necessarily a supporter                                                               
or rejecter  of HB 230.   He  asked whether his  understanding is                                                               
correct that ISPs  have at the request of  the federal government                                                               
turned  over data  responsive to  concerns  about terrorism  even                                                               
though there was no law requiring  it.  So, he surmised, at least                                                               
in that context ISPs can disclose private information.                                                                          
MS. O'CONNOR answered  that she is not familiar  with the details                                                               
of   that,  but   she  does   know  that   through  a   subpoena,                                                               
[information]  can  be  requested.   However,  she  noted,  where                                                               
traffic is encrypted an ISP cannot see what is there.                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  qualified he is  not a scholar  of this                                                               
but is confident  that there are ISPs which take  the approach of                                                               
utter vigilance  and protection  of privacy  and there  are other                                                               
companies  that would  disclose whatever  the federal  government                                                               
asks them  to.  There is  this variation that the  media reports,                                                               
he said, and  they've reported it enough that  he doesn't believe                                                               
it is fake news.                                                                                                                
MS. O'CONNOR replied  that her own experience  from having worked                                                               
for several telecom providers is  that they are very conscious of                                                               
following guidelines  that there must  be a subpoena, it  must be                                                               
appropriate, before any data is  released.  Beyond that she would                                                               
have to defer to a more technical expert.                                                                                       
4:02:19 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  offered his  understanding that  credit card                                                               
information is not  something an ISP has access to,  but he asked                                                               
whether an ISP  has access to what websites  people are shopping.                                                               
He further asked  whether that data that can  be easily obtained,                                                               
sold, transferred, or otherwise used for profit or gain.                                                                        
MS.  O'CONNOR responded  that she  believes  if [information]  is                                                               
encrypted, it  is not easily  accessed, but qualified she  is not                                                               
an information  technology (IT) expert  and is willing  to follow                                                               
up and provide that information.                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL  stated he  is  sure  Google has  access  to                                                               
someone's browsing  history.   He further  surmised that  ISPs or                                                               
telecom  companies can  have good  access  to someone's  shopping                                                               
data or  visits to a nefarious  website.  He presumed  this would                                                               
be  something that  a person  with technical  knowledge would  be                                                               
able to answer.                                                                                                                 
MS. O'CONNOR  agreed that  a more  technical examination  of this                                                               
would  be helpful.   However,  she continued,  the aforementioned                                                               
question raises  a good point  about confusion that  could result                                                               
with the language of  HB 230.  To date, it  is known that Google,                                                               
Facebook, and  Amazon are all  tracking shopping  information and                                                               
at what  someone is looking  at.   Consumers do not  know exactly                                                               
how this  is happening and one  of her big concerns  is that with                                                               
HB  230 [ISPs  and  telecommunications companies]  would have  to                                                               
prove over  and over that they  are not selling that  ad tracking                                                               
data;  it is  coming from  the  websites that  the consumers  are                                                               
4:04:59 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KITO  opened public testimony  on HB  230.  He  left public                                                               
testimony open after  ascertaining that no one  wished to testify                                                               
at this time.                                                                                                                   
[CHAIR KITO held over HB 230.]                                                                                                  

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB230 Sponsor Statement 4.26.17.pdf HL&C 5/1/2017 3:15:00 PM
HB 230
HB230 Sectional Analysis 4.26.17.pdf HL&C 5/1/2017 3:15:00 PM
HB 230
HB230 version A.PDF HL&C 5/1/2017 3:15:00 PM
HB 230
HB230 Fiscal Note LAW-CIV 4.28.17.pdf HL&C 5/1/2017 3:15:00 PM
HB 230
HB230 Supporting Documents-Letters of Opposition 5.1.17.pdf HL&C 5/1/2017 3:15:00 PM
HB 230
HB230 Opposing Documents-one-pager ATT Privacy 5.1.17.pdf HL&C 5/1/2017 3:15:00 PM
HB 230
HB230 Opposing Documents-one-pager ATT Internet Privacy 5.1.17.pdf HL&C 5/1/2017 3:15:00 PM
HB 230