Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/05/2001 03:20 PM L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB  74-EXTENDING THE BD OF BARBERS/HAIRDRESSERS                                                                               
Number 2145                                                                                                                     
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the  committee would take up HOUSE                                                               
BILL NO. 74, "An Act extending  the termination date of the Board                                                               
of Barbers and Hairdressers."                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD, sponsor  of  HB 74,  said  the bill  is                                                               
designed to extend the sunset  for the licensing Board of Barbers                                                               
and Hairdressers until 2005.  He  said there is broad support for                                                               
the  measure, among  all parties  affected;  it is  a simple  and                                                               
necessary bill and there are no known objections.                                                                               
Number 2188                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  Representative Halcro  if he  had                                                               
spoken  to anyone  on the  board  about things  happening in  the                                                               
industry, either before or after the bill was introduced.                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  said he  spoke to Sheryl  Sutton, Chair,                                                               
Board  of Barbers  and Hairdressers.   He  said "they"  seemed to                                                               
think that  this was a  needed board  and service, and  should be                                                               
continued.  He  said he wasn't made aware of  any problems within                                                               
the industry.                                                                                                                   
Number 2219                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said  it reminded him of a  case that was                                                               
brought  to  him  by  a  hairdresser/shop  owner,  which  may  be                                                               
germane.   He  said the  [former] Department  of Labor  (DOL) was                                                               
investigating a  shop owner to  [determine] whether or not  he or                                                               
she  met  the  requirements  of an  independent  shop  versus  an                                                               
employee  shop.    He  explained  that  this  meant  whether  the                                                               
operators in  the shop were operating  as independent contractors                                                               
under  Internal   Revenue  Service   (IRS)  (indisc.),   or  were                                                               
employees of the shop.                                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the  [former] DOL "comes out looking                                                               
really bad  because they are  like harassing  this small-business                                                               
person."  He  wondered if this was an ongoing  problem and if the                                                               
legislature could  have helped by defining  standards of practice                                                               
of a shop and so forth.  He  said the board might want to address                                                               
this issue.                                                                                                                     
Number 2279                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said it  would  probably  help to  have                                                               
legislation,  but he  wasn't sure  if HB  74 was  the appropriate                                                               
bill.  He said the committee  should be aware of the controversy,                                                               
and the board might be able to  set a method in regulation so the                                                               
shop  owners  could  declare  or   register  with  the  board  to                                                               
distinguish between an independent and a mixed shop.                                                                            
Number 2346                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  said he  agreed that  there should  be a                                                               
differentiation between the two.                                                                                                
Number 2365                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE   KOTT   asked   for  clarification   [about   the                                                               
difference] between  a barber and  a hairdresser, and  asked what                                                               
the  qualifications are  for both.   He  said the  committee last                                                               
year passed legislation  that put the board  over regulating body                                                               
piercing  and  tattooing.   He  asked  about  the status  of  the                                                               
legislation   and  whether   the  regulations   were  ready   for                                                               
CATHERINE REARDON, Director,  Division of Occupational Licensing,                                                               
Department   of  Community   and  Economic   Development  (DCED),                                                               
indicated  a yes  answer  [by nodding]  and  also indicated  that                                                               
there are no vacancies on the board.                                                                                            
Number 2439                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  said he thought  the difference  between a                                                               
barber and  a hairdresser was that  a barber is just  licensed to                                                               
cut hair and  a hairdresser can do everything  from permanents to                                                               
coloring and highlighting.                                                                                                      
Number 2452                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said her division  staffs this board and the division                                                               
and  department  support  continuing  the Board  of  Barbers  and                                                               
TAPE 01-13, SIDE B                                                                                                              
MS. REARDON said barbers can  shave, and hairdressers can't.  She                                                               
said the  definition of barbering includes:  coloring, bleaching,                                                               
chemically straightening  hair, doing  permanents, and  so forth.                                                               
She said  in order to  get a  license to practice  barbering, one                                                               
has to complete all of the  chemical training, not just learn how                                                               
to do the simple cuts.                                                                                                          
MS. REARDON  said this  topic had  come up in  the course  of her                                                               
work.   A person  wanted to  do traditional  barbering activities                                                               
and  had a  license in  another  state.   He had  worked under  a                                                               
federal exemption on a military base  for years, and wanted to go                                                               
into  private practice.   She  said  he had  to go  back and  get                                                               
training  in doing  permanents, colorings,  and so  forth because                                                               
although  he didn't  want  to do  those  activities, his  license                                                               
would  permit him  to, and  the regulations  require training  in                                                               
those areas.                                                                                                                    
MS. REARDON said  shaving is one difference  [between barbers and                                                               
hairdressers].  The other difference  is that hairdressers can do                                                               
manicures  under  the power  of  their  hairdresser license,  and                                                               
barbers  can't; a  barber's license  doesn't require  training in                                                               
manicuring.  She said "esthetics"  means facials and skin care in                                                               
this  particular context  [of  the legislation].    She said  the                                                               
division   also   licenses   manicurists,  body   piercers,   and                                                               
MS.  REARDON said  she went  to the  board meeting  in Anchorage,                                                               
during  the first  week  of  January, and  "we"  wrote the  first                                                               
regulations for body piercing and  tattooing.  She said the board                                                               
took  the task  very seriously,  and she  was impressed  with how                                                               
they proceeded since  it is a topic  that is new to a  lot of the                                                               
members.  She said there is  a designated seat for a tattooist or                                                               
body  piercer on  the  board,  which was  filled  by Larry  Allen                                                               
Ungerecht,  owner of  a large  and long-standing  tattoo shop  in                                                               
Number 2384                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said  a body piercer attended [the  meeting] and gave                                                               
a  lot  of  expert  advice.    The  Department  of  Environmental                                                               
Conservation (DEC) was  also represented.  She said  the board is                                                               
prepared  to  publicly notice  its  regulations  but is  waiting,                                                               
because "we" want to send them out  in the same packet as the DEC                                                               
regulations;  the  law  requires  DEC to  establish  the  minimum                                                               
requirements for  the equipment  and sanitation of  the facility.                                                               
The board  is responsible for  licensing requirements;  they want                                                               
to send both things  out to the public at once  so the public can                                                               
see  DEC's and  the  division's requirements  together, and  know                                                               
what will be required.                                                                                                          
MS. REARDON  said they would  be ready in  about a month  and the                                                               
division  would  send  them  out.   She  said  public  notice  of                                                               
regulations for transitional or  grandfather licenses was already                                                               
done, because those people need to  apply by June 30th to qualify                                                               
for the grandfather licenses.   She said the requirement that one                                                               
has a license in order to  engage in these practices doesn't kick                                                               
in for another  year.  She said  the time has not  come yet where                                                               
people have to have the license.                                                                                                
Number 2322                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said it has been  predicted that about 25 people will                                                               
get  licensed,  which is  reflected  in  the  fiscal note.    She                                                               
further told  the committee that  if they have  constituents that                                                               
they would like  to have on the Interested  Parties Public Notice                                                               
List,  they  could  forward  them   to  her  office.    She  said                                                               
otherwise, their  only [other] source  is the Yellow Pages.   She                                                               
said  when there  is a  new occupation,  there is  always concern                                                               
that people might be missed -  people who need to know that there                                                               
is a deadline to submit applications for grandfathering.                                                                        
Number 2297                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  referred to the  fiscal note and  asked Ms.                                                               
Reardon if it was safe to  say that there is one person dedicated                                                               
to the board.                                                                                                                   
MS. REARDON said,  "Yes, there is; there  are approximately 3,300                                                               
license  holders  and one  range-12  person  who handles  all  of                                                               
Number 2277                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG   asked  for  clarification   about  the                                                               
discrepancy on the amount from the  last board.  "There is like a                                                               
$20,000 [dollar increase from last year]," he noted.                                                                            
Number 2254                                                                                                                     
CATHERINE REARDON  said the  jump [in the  budget report]  was in                                                               
contractual and direct personnel services.   She said much of the                                                               
increase in 2000 versus 1999  was in investigative activity.  She                                                               
said  for  many years  "we"  did  almost  no enforcement  in  the                                                               
program.   She  said unlicensed  activity is  the primary  issue;                                                               
"we"  don't get  a lot  of consumer  complaints.   She said  it's                                                               
mostly   people  without   the   proper  license,   which  is   a                                                               
misdemeanor.     They  didn't  feel  that   investigations  would                                                               
necessarily result  in actual enforcement  action.  She  said, as                                                               
the  amount   of  investigative   staff  grew,  "we"   did  start                                                               
proactively  going and  doing inspections  and identifying  those                                                               
who  didn't have  licenses, trying  that method  of telling  them                                                               
that they have to get one.                                                                                                      
MS. REARDON  said there  was a  fair amount of  that done  in the                                                               
[year] 2000.   She  said "we swung"  through Fairbanks  and other                                                               
communities, looking for licenses; she  thought this is where one                                                               
would see most of the personnel  services increased.  She said it                                                               
was worthwhile  and the  message is  out on  the street  that one                                                               
needs to have a license.                                                                                                        
MS.  REARDON said  "we" also  started negotiating  Memorandums Of                                                               
Agreement   (MOAs),  fining   people   who  employed   unlicensed                                                               
individuals.  One aspect of the  manicuring law is that the board                                                               
now has  the power  to fine  unlicensed people.   She said  it is                                                               
another tool to persuade people to  enter into an agreement.  The                                                               
delayed effective date took place  at the beginning of the fiscal                                                               
year  and was  a  legal  improvement that  gave  "us"  a tool  to                                                               
encourage people to come into compliance with the law.                                                                          
MS. REARDON  said the difference  in personnel  services [between                                                               
1999 and  2000] is  because some investigator  time is  now being                                                               
dedicated to this profession.                                                                                                   
Number 2160                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON mentioned  workers' compensation and said  that it is                                                               
pretty common, in  this industry, to have a  system called "chair                                                               
rental"  where "you'll  see something  that looks  like just  one                                                               
shop  to the  customer coming  in, but  individuals are  actually                                                               
renting chairs."   She said questions have come up  as to whether                                                               
a person is considered an employee  or not.  She said she doesn't                                                               
think the Board of Barbers  and Hairdressers could do anything to                                                               
resolve  that   because,  at  least   with  regard   to  workers'                                                               
compensation, the criteria for what  made a person an employee or                                                               
not was set in both [former]  DOL and federal law, so telling the                                                               
board that this  person wasn't one's employee  wouldn't make them                                                               
"not your  employee."  She said,  "What would make them  not your                                                               
employee  is if  you  weren't setting  their  hours, you  weren't                                                               
overseeing  how they  deliver services,  some  other things  that                                                               
were in the labor law."                                                                                                         
MS. REARDON  said she  didn't think there  was anything  that the                                                               
Board of Barbers and Hairdressers  would do that could change the                                                               
reality  of  whether  one  is   considered  a  true,  independent                                                               
contractor,  or  an  employee,  calling  himself  or  herself  an                                                               
independent contractor.  She said she  believed it had to do with                                                               
hour  setting, work  quality,  and condition  issues.   When  one                                                               
starts  controlling those  things,  the person  is considered  an                                                               
employer.  She said this is her memory of the topic.                                                                            
Number 2082                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said it  is an ongoing problem throughout                                                               
the  industry, and  chairs  are  rented in  some  instances.   He                                                               
     If the board were to  meet and draft regulations ... if                                                                    
     there  was a  question,  they could  even register  the                                                                    
     contracts of  individuals with the  board, ...  so they                                                                    
     would have  to meet the  criteria of federal  and state                                                                    
     law, there's no question about that.                                                                                       
     They couldn't change those laws,  but ... at least "we"                                                                    
     could   be   a   repository,    ...   to   refute   the                                                                    
     investigation,  one way  or the  other,  ... [for  the]                                                                    
     Department of  Labor, and also  help the  Department of                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  referred to  a situation brought  to his                                                               
office.  He said it  entailed 20 hours of administrative hearings                                                               
and the costs  were horrendous.  He said a  licensee wouldn't put                                                               
up  with it,  but the  [former] DOL  is out  there, "wasting  all                                                               
kinds of state money on it, in my opinion."                                                                                     
Number 2021                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said she thought "we"  could serve as a place to file                                                               
it with some sort  of system, but said it might  be a better idea                                                               
if  the  Department of  Labor  and  Workforce Development  (DLWD)                                                               
serves that  function.  She  said she  would be a  little worried                                                               
that  people might  think that  by filing  it with  her, and  her                                                               
putting  it into  the file  folder,  that somehow  the state  was                                                               
saying that it  was all right "that you don't  consider them your                                                               
employee."   She  said she  wouldn't  want people  to think  that                                                               
filing it with  her would make them "safe."   She said they could                                                               
carry out this function if people think it's a good idea.                                                                       
Number 1984                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  asked who is  liable when a shop  owner is                                                               
renting a chair to someone who may not have a current license.                                                                  
Number 1964                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said  when the person is an employee,  the shop owner                                                               
is  liable; she  was not  sure whether  the shop  owner would  be                                                               
liable if the person was an independent contractor.                                                                             
Number 1948                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  asked if it  was safe  to assume that  if a                                                               
person is doing  body piercing and tattooing, he or  she has some                                                               
sort of license.                                                                                                                
MS. REARDON  answered by saying  "not today."   She said  the law                                                               
that passed  last year  had a delayed  [effective] date  by which                                                               
one had to have a license.  She  said she thought a person had to                                                               
have a license by June 30, 2002,  over one year from now, to have                                                               
time to  phase in [the requirement].   She said some  things took                                                               
effect immediately, such as prohibiting  the tattooing of minors;                                                               
a person  has to have  parental consent  to body pierce  a minor.                                                               
She said she would check.                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  verified with Ms. Reardon  that people over                                                               
the  age of  18 don't  need to  have parental  consent [for  body                                                               
MS. REARDON said she thought that  was correct:  it referred to a                                                               
minor.   She said a  minor could go  in and  get his or  her ears                                                               
pierced from someone  without a license, since  the definition of                                                               
body  piercing  specifically  exempted  ear piercing.    The  law                                                               
required DEC to establish sanitary  regulations for ear piercing.                                                               
She said  the DEC  regulations haven't  been publicly  noticed or                                                               
adopted yet, to  establish rules for ear piercing.   She said she                                                               
didn't believe that there were  minimum guidelines for sanitation                                                               
as it relates to ear piercing, at this time.                                                                                    
Number 1873                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON  said she doesn't know  a lot about the  topic but in                                                               
listening  to the  DEC staff  person  talk to  the body  piercing                                                               
person  at  the  board  meeting,   it  sounded  like  there  were                                                               
variations in sanitary conditions.                                                                                              
MS.  REARDON  corrected  a  previous   statement  she  had  made,                                                               
referring  to the  statute  on tattooing  and  body piercing:  "A                                                               
person  may not  practice tattooing  - we  call it  tattooing ...                                                               
permanent cosmetic  coloring; that  is the official  term -  on a                                                               
minor.   And  that  appears  to have  taken  effect September  1,                                                               
MS. REARDON said body piercing  requires prior written permission                                                               
from the minor's  parent or legal guardian, and  the presence [of                                                               
the parent  or guardian]  during the  procedure.   She reiterated                                                               
that ear piercing is exempted from this law.                                                                                    
Number 1781                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked if someone  who is licensed to do body                                                               
piercing would also  have adequate insurance, and  what would the                                                               
ramifications be  if this person  used an unclean needle  and the                                                               
client worst  case [scenario],  got Human  Immunodeficiency Virus                                                               
Number 1753                                                                                                                     
MS.  REARDON  said  there  isn't   a  requirement  for  liability                                                               
insurance; most  of "our" professions don't  have any requirement                                                               
for  liability insurance,  as  a  general rule.    She said  even                                                               
health  care professions  assume that  there are  no requirements                                                               
for malpractice or liability insurance.                                                                                         
MS. REARDON said  she thought the remedy would  be sought through                                                               
the courts  and/or filing a  complaint with  the board to  try to                                                               
get  the  person's  license  revoked,  and to  try  to  prompt  a                                                               
misdemeanor  prosecution if  the person  was not  licensed.   She                                                               
said the  tattooing statute, regarding  a minor, goes on  to say,                                                               
"A person  who with criminal negligence  violates the prohibition                                                               
against tattooing minors is guilty of a class B misdemeanor."                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked  what the requirements would  be if he                                                               
wanted to get a license and do body piercing.                                                                                   
Number 1705                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said  there are some requirements for  people who are                                                               
eligible for  grandfather licenses, and other  [requirements] for                                                               
new applicants.   She said  an examination is required  for both.                                                               
She  said the  board  is in  the  process of  trying  to find  an                                                               
examination.   This  is the  last thing  to be  completed in  the                                                               
proposed regulations, and "we" have  been looking hard around the                                                               
country to try to buy an examination.                                                                                           
MS. REARDON  said new entrants  into the profession  are required                                                               
to  do an  apprenticeship.   The regulations  will describe  what                                                               
subjects  have  to be  covered  in  the apprenticeship,  and  the                                                               
number  of hours  in each  subject.   She said  there aren't  any                                                               
schools  for this  in Alaska,  and the  bill doesn't  provide for                                                               
school education.   The  profession is generally  passed on  as a                                                               
formal  or  informal apprenticeship.    The  people that  already                                                               
practice  [the profession]  don't need  to do  the apprenticeship                                                               
but need  to prove that they  were practicing for 12  of the last                                                               
24 months prior to application, and then pass the exam.                                                                         
Number 1630                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  said he  thought it was  odd that  a person                                                               
could open a tattooing or body  piercing shop in one of the rooms                                                               
of his or her house and there  is not a consequence if the person                                                               
doesn't use a sanitary needle.                                                                                                  
Number 1609                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said  a good thing about the statute  is that it does                                                               
require a person  to have a shop license; the  location has to be                                                               
approved,  as  well   as  the  practitioner.     She  said  DEC's                                                               
regulations  are going  to establish  oversight,  to ensure  that                                                               
people have sinks,  things for cleaning equipment,  and so forth.                                                               
She said  some people will  ignore the  law and still  have their                                                               
"back room things"  going on, without licenses, and  then it will                                                               
be up  to misdemeanor prosecution to  try and take care  of that.                                                               
She said on the positive [side],  prior to passing this law there                                                               
were no requirements  at all and "you" weren't  breaking the law.                                                               
At least  now, if someone feels  that it should be  regulated, it                                                               
is a  step towards that.   For many  members in the  industry, it                                                               
will be a shock to go to that degree of change.                                                                                 
Number 1560                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  Ms. Reardon  when the  manicurist                                                               
[law] took effect.                                                                                                              
MS.   REARDON  said   the  manicurist   [law]  that   required  a                                                               
practitioner to have  a license, took effect  either September 1,                                                               
2001, or  September 30 [2001].   She said the law  doesn't have a                                                               
grandfather  provision;  everyone   who  does  manicures,  except                                                               
hairdressers who are already covered  by their licenses, needs to                                                               
have a 12-hour  course that covers health and  safety topics, for                                                               
the manicurist  and for  the patron.   She  said the  board wrote                                                               
[out] what should be covered in the  12 hours.  There is no state                                                               
exam required, but the 12-hour course needs to be completed.                                                                    
MS. REARDON said "we" need to get some people offering the 12-                                                                  
hour course for  the system to work.  The  private sector doesn't                                                               
appear to  be offering the  12-hour course.   She said  a mailing                                                               
was  sent  inviting  the  private sector  to  offer  the  12-hour                                                               
course;  if  that doesn't  happen,  then  the committee  will  be                                                               
hearing  from  her  next  year, since  people  won't  have  their                                                               
licenses and would  be out of compliance with the  law.  She said                                                               
the manicurist statute  gives people the option of  taking a 250-                                                               
hour course, to call themselves an advanced manicurist.                                                                         
MS. REARDON said she is  concerned about the approaching date for                                                               
licensure deadline.  She said  she would think that someone would                                                               
want to  travel around the  state and  offer the course,  but she                                                               
hasn't found that person yet.                                                                                                   
Number 1452                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to the  fiscal note for the year                                                               
2000 and asked when the one for 2001 would be drafted.                                                                          
MS. REARDON  said the last  two complete fiscal years  were done.                                                               
She said  2001 was not included  [in the bill packet]  because it                                                               
is  the middle  of  2001,  but said  she  could  easily tell  the                                                               
committee what has been spent to date.                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked why 2001  is not reflected  in the                                                               
fiscal note and whether the 2002 budgets have been submitted.                                                                   
MS.  REARDON said  fiscal notes  generally show  new costs.   She                                                               
said she doesn't  need any new expenditure  authority to continue                                                               
the board.   She  said some  people feel  fiscal notes  should be                                                               
"positive fiscal notes"  because if the bill didn't  pass and the                                                               
board and  licensing were eliminated,  there would be  a [budget]                                                               
reduction.  In  order to make people with  that philosophy happy,                                                               
"we" like  to acknowledge that  there is a  cost and that  if the                                                               
activity was stopped, "this" is the amount that would go away.                                                                  
Number 1282                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG commented  on the  2001 fiscal  year and                                                               
the manicuring board.                                                                                                           
Number 1276                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said  she believed a positive fiscal note  was put in                                                               
for  tattooing  and  body  piercing,  and  manicuring  licensing,                                                               
because  there  was an  increase  in  expenditure authority  when                                                               
those passed.   Referring to  the attachment to the  fiscal note,                                                               
she said  it shows that  "we" didn't actually spend  the increase                                                               
in expenditure authority that "we" got in the fiscal notes.                                                                     
MS.  REARDON said  one shouldn't  necessarily  conclude that  the                                                               
difference  between  the two  years  [1999  and 2000]  refers  to                                                               
programs being added, because in  terms of investigator activity,                                                               
there  wasn't more  investigator  [time] for  either  of the  two                                                               
programs.  She said  she would have to check to see  if she got a                                                               
one-fourth-time investigator  for manicurists.   She  said "this"                                                               
[referring to  the sheet attached  to the fiscal note]  is actual                                                               
time spent, whereas a fiscal note is a prediction.                                                                              
MS. REARDON explained that indirect  costs are distinguished from                                                               
direct costs  [referring to the  attachment to the  fiscal note].                                                               
She  said all  of the  indirect costs  are in  a pot  and divided                                                               
equally  among  licensees  in  the professions.    She  said  the                                                               
indirect costs  are [roughly]  $95 for a  two-year license.   She                                                               
said  because of  the financial  self-sufficiency mandate,  where                                                               
each profession is charged its  own regulatory cost, "we" have to                                                               
parcel out all costs in the  division.  She said costs are broken                                                               
into three levels:   costs that are reasonably  attributable to a                                                               
profession;  costs that  pertain  to the  board;  and costs  that                                                               
aren't  efficiently tracked  at the  other two  levels, which  go                                                               
into  the indirect  pool  and  are spread  per  capita among  the                                                               
38,000 licensees.                                                                                                               
MS.   REARDON   said   those  [costs]   are   anything   from   a                                                               
receptionist's salary to  the copy machine.  She  said copies are                                                               
billed  out, but  the purchase  and  repair of  the machine  [are                                                               
billed] to the indirect pool and spread per capita.                                                                             
MS. REARDON  said an indirect  cost is not  necessarily overhead.                                                               
It could  be a very  tangible thing, such  as the cost  of having                                                               
the  phone system.   She  said although  long-distance calls  are                                                               
billed to  each profession, the  cost of  having a phone  on each                                                               
desk  is  an indirect  cost.    She  said  "we" go  through  that                                                               
assessment for each cost.                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked how  much of the  $95 is  going to                                                               
the commissioner's office.                                                                                                      
MS.   REARDON   said   she    would   distinguish   between   the                                                               
commissioner's   office  and   the  Division   of  Administrative                                                               
Services,   which  is   the   administrative   support  for   the                                                               
department.   She said  "we" probably pay  other agencies  of the                                                               
department $500,000 per year, with the changes.                                                                                 
Number 1070                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  said one of the  responsibilities of the                                                               
committee has  always been "to  ensure that the  commissioner and                                                               
the bureaucracy  wasn't stealing  from the  licensees."   He said                                                               
the committee  has done  a pretty  good job  and there  have been                                                               
several audits, which is the reason he brought it up.                                                                           
Number 1044                                                                                                                     
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  said it seems like  the makeup of the  board has                                                               
grown and expanded  into areas that weren't  anticipated, such as                                                               
the barbers and  hairdressers being lumped in with  those that do                                                               
body tattoos.   She asked  if it is an  all right melding  of the                                                               
occupations, and if the board is going to work out.                                                                             
Number 1013                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON  said she believes  it will work  out.  She  said she                                                               
went to  the board  meeting where  they were  going to  deal with                                                               
tattooing and  body piercing  because she  wanted to  see whether                                                               
the board  was going to  be able to  work together with  this new                                                               
profession.   She  said  there was  some  ambivalence among  some                                                               
board  members and  some members  of the  industry about  whether                                                               
they wanted  to move into  the body piercing and  tattooing area,                                                               
but now that  the board has it, they are  taking it seriously and                                                               
trying to do a good job.                                                                                                        
MS. REARDON said  there was also some ambivalence on  the part of                                                               
the  body  piercers  and  tatooists.   She  said  there  was  the                                                               
financial  reality that  the profession  needed to  be a  part of                                                               
some board.  Even  with 25 - and one day  possibly 50 licensees -                                                               
the  financial self-sufficiency  mandate  was going  to make  the                                                               
licenses  extremely expensive.   She  said joining  a board  with                                                               
3,000 licensees to spread costs  among lowered [the cost] down to                                                               
an acceptable level.                                                                                                            
Number 0927                                                                                                                     
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  asked  if the  barbers  and  hairdressers  were                                                               
concerned  about going  into  an area  that  is potentially  more                                                               
MS.  REARDON said  she didn't  think  the cost  concern has  been                                                               
articulated  much,  but  she  has  heard  concern  over  lack  of                                                               
knowledge about a profession that  they are regulating.  She said                                                               
she thought they  compensated by trying to have  a [body piercing                                                               
and tattooing  designated seat] board  member and  by encouraging                                                               
other people with experience to come  and talk to the board.  She                                                               
said  the board  was very  open about  having people  who weren't                                                               
even on the board sitting at  the table and "putting in their two                                                               
cents."   She said she hadn't  heard concern about the  cost, but                                                               
if it ends up being expensive, then "we'll" hear about it.                                                                      
MS. REARDON said  it overlaps with concerns brought  to the board                                                               
about permanent  cosmetics.  She  said some  beauty practitioners                                                               
do  lip  liner, eyeliner,  or  permanent  cosmetics -  which  are                                                               
tattoos.   She  said  the  board had  been  concerned about  this                                                               
activity but  wasn't able to  regulate it because it  didn't fall                                                               
under  the   definitions  of  the  professions   that  the  board                                                               
Number 0768                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  made  a  motion  to  move  HB  74  from                                                               
committee with  individual recommendations and the  attached zero                                                               
fiscal note.  There being no  objection, HB 74 was moved from the                                                               
House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                    

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