Legislature(2021 - 2022)GRUENBERG 120

05/24/2021 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY

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01:01:19 PM Start
01:02:09 PM HJR7
04:24:56 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
               HJR 7-CONST. AM: PERM FUND & PFDS                                                                            
[Contains discussion of SJR 6.]                                                                                                 
1:02:09 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  JOINT  RESOLUTION  NO.  7,  Proposing  amendments  to  the                                                               
Constitution  of  the State  of  Alaska  relating to  the  Alaska                                                               
permanent fund,  appropriations from the permanent  fund, and the                                                               
permanent  fund  dividend.    [Before  the  committee  was  CSHJR
1:03:37 PM                                                                                                                    
LUCINDA  MAHONEY,  Commissioner,  Department  of  Revenue,  ,  on                                                               
behalf of the House Rules  Standing Committee, sponsor by request                                                               
of  the  governor,  introduced  CSHJR  7(STA)  via  a  PowerPoint                                                               
presentation,  titled   "HJR  7  Permanent   Fund  Constitutional                                                               
Amendment: First Step to a  Comprehensive Fiscal Plan for Alaska"                                                               
[hardcopy  included in  the committee  packet].   She noted  that                                                               
some  slides  would  refer  also  to SJR  6,  a  companion  joint                                                               
resolution  in  the  Senate.    She named  the  goals  of  [CSHJR
7(STA)], as  listed on slide  2, which read as  follows [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
        1. Protect the Permanent Fund and Permanent Fund                                                                        
     Dividend (PFD)                                                                                                             
     2. Determine Consistent PFD for Alaskans                                                                                   
     3. Establish Strong Reserves                                                                                               
     4. Achieve a Sustainable Balanced Budget                                                                                   
COMMISSIONER MAHONEY  discussed the  next steps  to be  taken, as                                                               
shown on  slide 3,  which read  as follows  [original punctuation                                                               
     Step One - First Special Session                                                                                           
     ? Permanent Fund Structural Fix  Permanent Fund & ERA                                                                      
     ? Establish Strong Reserves w/Bridge Appropriation                                                                         
     ?    Consensus    on    Deficit   Size         Required                                                                    
     Spending/Revenue Targets                                                                                                   
     Step Two - Second Special Session                                                                                          
     ?  Revenue/Reduction  Initiatives to  Achieve  Balanced                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MAHONEY said in addition  to structurally fixing the                                                               
permanent fund,  the goal of  the first special session  would be                                                               
to  collapse   the  earnings  reserve  account   (ERA)  into  the                                                               
permanent fund.   She added  that the bridge  appropriation would                                                               
be  $3   billion,  noting  that  further   explanation  would  be                                                               
forthcoming.  She said these  two special sessions are viewed "as                                                               
working  together  to  establish  a  structured  and  disciplined                                                               
fiscal plan."                                                                                                                   
1:07:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE  BARNHILL,  Deputy   Commissioner,  Department  of  Revenue,                                                               
reviewed  slides  4  and  5,  titled  "Permanent  Fund  Endowment                                                               
Structure,"   which  read   as   follows  [original   punctuation                                                               
     [slide 4]                                                                                                                  
     ? It's time for a true Permanent Fund endowment.                                                                           
     ?  Endowment approach  is  an internationally  accepted                                                                    
     best practice.                                                                                                             
     ?  Limits annual  government draw  to fixed  Percent of                                                                    
     Market Value (POMV).                                                                                                       
     ?  Stabilizes   revenues  with  a   smoothed  five-year                                                                    
     [slide 5]                                                                                                                  
     ? POMV  set at  5% of the  lagging 5-Yr  average market                                                                    
     ? Current statutory POMV is also 5%                                                                                        
     ? Limits  spending while allowing  the fund to  grow to                                                                    
     keep up with inflation                                                                                                     
     ? Spend only the real return over time.                                                                                    
     ? Example:                                                                                                                 
     ? Average Return since Inception: 7%                                                                                       
     ? Inflation: 2%                                                                                                            
     ? Real return: 5%                                                                                                          
         ? Limiting spending to 5% inflation-proofs the                                                                         
     Permanent Fund                                                                                                             
MR.   BARNHILL  related   that  most   institutional  funds   are                                                               
structured  as an  endowment, which  is  a one-account  structure                                                               
from which a  fixed percentage is taken annually.   He noted that                                                               
the  fixed  percentage  is designed  to  automatically  inflation                                                               
proof  the endowment.    He expounded  that  under the  permanent                                                               
fund's  current  structure,   inflation  proofing  the  principal                                                               
requires making  an appropriation back to  the principal account,                                                               
whereas  an endowment  would  leave  money in  so  that the  fund                                                               
automatically inflation proofs over time.   Regarding slide 5, he                                                               
added that  the benefit of  a lagged percentage is  the certainty                                                               
that the formula will produce at the start of the budget cycle.                                                                 
1:13:13 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BARNHILL  discussed the mechanics  of CSHJR 7(STA),  shown on                                                               
slide 6, which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                 
    ?    Permanent     Fund    transitions     into    one,                                                                     
     constitutionally protected account (FY24)                                                                                  
      ? Percent of Market Value (POMV) distribution method                                                                      
     put into the constitution                                                                                                  
       ? Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD) established in the                                                                       
     ? POMV set at 5%                                                                                                           
      Governor   is    proposing   an   equitable   50/50                                                                       
     ? 50% Dividends                                                                                                            
     ? 50% Government Services                                                                                                  
     ? Any change to PFD must be approved by a vote of the                                                                      
MR.  BARNHILL explained  that under  CSHJR 7(STA),  the permanent                                                               
fund  would  transition  from  a   two-account  structure  -  the                                                               
principal  and   ERA  -  to  one   endowment  account  structure.                                                               
Additionally,  this proposal  would  establish  into statute  the                                                               
percentage of  allocation between  the dividend [50  percent] and                                                               
government  expenses [50  percent].   He noted  that under  CSSJR
6(JUD), the 50/50 allocation is  constitutionalized, which is one                                                               
of the differing factors from CSHJR 7(STA).                                                                                     
MR.  BARNHILL   directed  attention  slide  7,   "Permanent  Fund                                                               
Dividend:   Consistency,"  which   read   as  follows   [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
     Current Challenge:                                                                                                         
     ? Public Mistrust: Too much Government spending                                                                            
     ?  Political  Impasse:  Results   in  a  PFD  Based  on                                                                    
     Politics  Not Laws                                                                                                         
     ? Restore  Public Trust:  Consistent PFDs  and Spending                                                                    
     ? Establish a Fair Resolution: 50/50 Split                                                                                 
       Constitutionalize PFD                                                                                                    
MR.  BARNHILL explained  that the  graph on  slide 7  provides an                                                               
historic view of dividend payments  from 1982 to 2016, which were                                                               
calculated and paid  per the statutory formula.   From 2016-2021,                                                               
the graph  shows the statutory  dividend [green line]  versus the                                                               
amount that  was actually  paid [orange line].   The  dotted gray                                                               
line  indicates  what   would  have  been  paid   under  a  50/50                                                               
allocation.  He related that  the statutory formula is 50 percent                                                               
of  a five-year  average  of statutory  net  income, whereas  the                                                               
governor  is proposing  50 percent  of a  five-year average  of 5                                                               
percent  of market  value (POMV).   He  opined that  the proposal                                                               
offers rule-based  consistency and would solve  issues related to                                                               
public mistrust and legislative impasse.                                                                                        
1:17:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BARNHILL continued  on the topic of  consistency by reviewing                                                               
slide 8, which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                 
        Alaskans  deserve  certainty concerning  annual  PFD                                                                    
     ?  State   needs  PFD  consistency  to   attain  budget                                                                    
     stability and sustainability.                                                                                              
     ?  Absent  certainty,   determining  future  achievable                                                                    
     revenues/reductions  is  difficult  and may  result  in                                                                    
     over/under collecting/taxing.                                                                                              
     ?  50% POMV  dividend is  an equitable  distribution of                                                                    
     Alaska's wealth between its citizens and government.                                                                       
     ?  Resolving the  PFD allows  a discussion  of required                                                                    
     revenues/reductions to  close the remaining  budget gap                                                                    
     (August Special Session)                                                                                                   
        Redirects the  legislative  conversation to  growing                                                                    
     Alaska vs. debating PFD.                                                                                                   
1:20:16 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  MAHONEY  discussed  50/50 and  bridge  funding,  as                                                               
shown on  slide 9,  which read  as follows  [original punctuation                                                               
     ?  One-time use  of our  strong financial  asset    the                                                                    
     Permanent Fund - positions Alaska  for long term fiscal                                                                    
     ? With $3.0  billion in bridge funding from  the ERA, a                                                                    
     forecasted  FY25 fiscal  gap of  ~$300M can  be managed                                                                    
     with  a combination  of revenue  measures and  spending                                                                    
     ? Other  endowments are considering  one-time increases                                                                    
     in   draws   to   capitalize  on   exceptional   market                                                                    
     ?  Harvard's $42  Bill endowment  increased from  5% to                                                                    
     7.5% on one-time basis                                                                                                     
     ?     https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/5/3/draw-                                                                    
     ?   https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/arts/endowments-                                                                    
     ? This plan avoids the need for a new broad-based tax.                                                                     
     ? Constitutionalizing  a 5% POMV prevents  overdraws in                                                                    
     the future                                                                                                                 
COMMISSIONER  MAHONEY  explained  that  the  governor's  proposal                                                               
would establish the  aforementioned 50/50 proposal, as  well as a                                                               
one-time  draw  from  the  [ERA]  of $3  billion  to  enable  the                                                               
transition  to  a  sustainable  budget.   She  noted  that  under                                                               
current projections,  the $3 billion  draw, which is  referred to                                                               
as  "bridge  funding,"  and would  provide  sustainability  until                                                               
2024/2025  without additional  revenues or  reductions.   At that                                                               
time,  she   said,  $300  million   in  additional   revenues  or                                                               
reductions would prevent the necessity of a broad-based tax.                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MAHONEY  detailed a  comprehensive fiscal  plan from                                                               
2021 through  2030 on slide  10, which read as  follows [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
        $3.0  billion in  bridge  funding  provides time  to                                                                    
     establish achievable revenues/reductions.                                                                                  
     ? Beginning  in FY24, $150  million to $300  million in                                                                    
     revenues/reductions balances  the budget and  begins to                                                                    
     grow reserves.                                                                                                             
1:25:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MAHONEY wrapped up the  presentation with a summary, outlined                                                               
on  slide  11,  which  read   as  follows  [original  punctuation                                                               
      ? Protects Alaska's primary source of state general                                                                       
     fund revenue                                                                                                               
      ? Preserves long-term value of the fund by limiting                                                                       
     annual draw                                                                                                                
      ? Reestablishes the critical link between the people                                                                      
       and their government by providing every Alaskan a                                                                        
     share of the state's natural resource wealth                                                                               
         ? Ensures that Alaskans have a voice in future                                                                         
     decisions regarding the permanent fund                                                                                     
1:27:41 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   EASTMAN  shared   his  understanding   that  the                                                               
legislature may take  action, which would then trigger  a vote by                                                               
the people.   He asked Mr. Barnhill how this  process is going to                                                               
1:28:44 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BARNHILL responded that the  language detailing the mechanics                                                               
of the vote is on page  2, Section 2, Subsection (d), lines 9-19,                                                               
of HJR 7,  and explained that it provides that  any change to the                                                               
percentage  allocation to  the PFD  approved  by the  legislature                                                               
would then be scheduled to be taken  up by the voters at the next                                                               
statewide election  held more  than 120  days after  enactment of                                                               
the law.                                                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN   shared  his  understand  that   if  the                                                               
legislature  approves this  change in  year one  for that  year's                                                               
dividend, then the  people wouldn't have the  opportunity to vote                                                               
that year,  but would have  to wait  to vote the  following year,                                                               
and the law  would not go into effect until  the year after that.                                                               
He asked  Mr. Barnhill  if this is  not the  legislature deciding                                                               
what  the  dividend  will  be  and  the  people  not  getting  an                                                               
opportunity to vote on it for two years.                                                                                        
MR. BARNHILL responded that the  percentage change would not take                                                               
effect until it is approved by  the people.  He explained that in                                                               
the scenario that Representative Eastman  outlined, if there is a                                                               
two-year delay,  then the change  to the dividend would  not take                                                               
effect  until the  people  have  approved it.    Once the  people                                                               
approve it, the change would not  take effect until 90 days after                                                               
the certification of the election returns.                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN asked  Mr. Barnhill,  if the  legislature                                                               
chooses to  do something other  than the current formula  that is                                                               
being  enshrined,   what  the  consequences   would  be   if  the                                                               
legislature  doesn't  adhere  to  the current  and  not  approved                                                               
MR.  BARNHILL  responded  that this  measure  requires  that  the                                                               
percentage of  the PFD  be in  statute.   This is  different from                                                               
what has been done in the state  for the last few years, he said,                                                               
and although the law has been  followed, it has not been put into                                                               
statute.  He  explained that under this  paradigm, the percentage                                                               
is set by statute and the  contemplation at play is that it moves                                                               
automatically per that statute.                                                                                                 
1:31:55 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  KURKA shared  his understanding  that there  is a                                                               
potential  three-year  delay  from  when  the  legislature  would                                                               
choose to  change the PFD formula  to when it would  take effect.                                                               
He asked Mr. Barnhill what  would stop the state from "continuing                                                               
doing what we are doing now and ignoring the law."                                                                              
MR. BARNHILL responded that that's  how it would work under CSHJR
7(STA).    Under  the  companion measure  in  the  Senate,  CSSJR
6(JUD), the  governor is  proposing a fix  to that  allocation in                                                               
the constitution via a 50/50 split.   He said that there is not a                                                               
role for the  legislature to change that by statute  and there is                                                               
not a  role for the  people to vote on  anything.  He  said that,                                                               
essentially,  it "cuts  to the  chase" and  would follow  a 50/50                                                               
split until the people amend the constitution again.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE KURKA stated that he  is confused because it seems                                                               
to him that  there are two different proposals  from the governor                                                               
[HJR 7 and SJR 6] that do different things.                                                                                     
MR.  BARNHILL responded  that he  understands the  confusion, but                                                               
that it is  a product of Alaska's bicameral  legislature and that                                                               
these two measures may "catch up to each other" at some point.                                                                  
1:34:38 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   SNYDER   directed   attention   to   slide   10,                                                               
"Comprehensive  Fiscal   Plan:  Details,"  and  asked   for  more                                                               
information  regarding the  assumptions that  went into  creating                                                               
the table  included on the  slide.  She asked  specifically about                                                               
growth of the  fund and about anything else that  resulted in the                                                               
numbers seen in the table.                                                                                                      
1:35:13 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER   MAHONEY   responded   that  in   regard   to   the                                                               
unrestricted general fund  (UGF) revenues seen in  the first line                                                               
of  the table,  the spring  forecast  was utilized  and the  only                                                               
number  that  was  adjusted  was the  POMV,  which  was  adjusted                                                               
assuming  a 6.25  percent annual  return to  the permanent  fund.                                                               
She explained  that that increase  alone in  the POMV due  to the                                                               
significantly higher  starting part for  the fund is  what drives                                                               
the revenues  up significantly.   In regard  to the  general fund                                                               
appropriation budget,  she explained  that these are  the 10-year                                                               
numbers that  are published by OMB.   The year 2022  was adjusted                                                               
to reflect supplementals, she said.                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER  recalled  the example  that  Commissioner                                                               
Mahoney provided earlier  in her presentation of  a Harvard study                                                               
where researchers  conducted a  one-time draw  from 5  percent to                                                               
around 7.5 percent, which she said  is what she understands to be                                                               
a   justification  for   the  bridge   draw.     She  asked   for                                                               
clarification on whether the way  the resolution as written would                                                               
disallow anything like this to occur in the future.                                                                             
MR. BARNHILL responded  that that is correct, it  would be capped                                                               
at 5 percent until the constitution is changed.                                                                                 
1:37:17 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND directed  attention  to  slide 3,  "Next                                                               
Steps," and asked Mr. Barnhill  what is preventing the state from                                                               
collapsing the  ERA into  the permanent fund  now, as  opposed to                                                               
what the [resolution] proposes.                                                                                                 
MR.  BARNHILL   responded  that  the  current   language  in  the                                                               
constitution  was  promulgated  in   1976  and  uses  the  terms,                                                               
"principal  and income,"  which  he  said is  a  standard way  of                                                               
setting up a trust account that  goes back hundreds of years.  He                                                               
explained that this  is where the state's  two account structures                                                               
come  from.   He shared  that there  have been  discussions about                                                               
enacting this  through statute, but that  the difficulty involved                                                               
with  that  method would  be  in  determining the  boundaries  of                                                               
legislative appropriation.   He explained that it is  the view of                                                               
the Department of Law  (DOL) that if the state is  going to do an                                                               
endowment, then it  needs to be done through  the constitution to                                                               
ensure that the PFD is protected  "forever" and that there are no                                                               
questions  on  where  the boundaries  are  regarding  legislative                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND  asked  whether   there  would  be  some                                                               
revenue lost  in the proposed  bridge appropriation in  moving $3                                                               
billion out of the PFD and into the reserve accounts.                                                                           
1:39:01 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MAHONEY  responded that there would  be a short-term                                                               
revenue loss  as a  result of  moving the  bridge money  into the                                                               
constitutional  budget reserve  (CBR).   She  explained that  the                                                               
plan would  be to  manage the  transfers in  a manner  that would                                                               
allow the  funds to  stay in  the permanent fund  for as  long as                                                               
possible, and  the funds would  be transferred only as  needed so                                                               
that the maximum returns on investment could be generated.                                                                      
1:39:31 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN shared his understanding  that the $3 billion bridge                                                               
withdraw would  be an overdraw under  the current law.   He asked                                                               
what the justification is for "breaking  the law in order to make                                                               
the law."                                                                                                                       
COMMISSIONER MAHONEY responded that  the proposal to transfer the                                                               
$3 billion  is to recognize that  in order to position  the state                                                               
in  a way  that is  fiscally sustainable,  there needs  to be  an                                                               
unusual  action taken  in terms  of an  overdraw.   She explained                                                               
that it would  be a one-time occurrence and  would be sustainable                                                               
into the future.                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  shared his understanding that  Commissioner Mahoney                                                               
can justify breaking the law because  the theory is that it would                                                               
make it possible to not have to break the law in the future.                                                                    
1:40:45 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BARNHILL replied  that there  has been  a lot  of discussion                                                               
over  the   years  regarding  which  laws   are  constitutionally                                                               
enforceable and which ones are not.                                                                                             
CHAIR  CLAMAN  interjected  that  this  is  a  law  specifies  "5                                                               
percent," and this  proposal would break the law.   He asked what                                                               
the policy reason is to break the law.                                                                                          
MR. BARNHILL  responded, "Given the  funding deficits,  to comply                                                               
with all of  the statutes that are  on the books."   He said that                                                               
the state  is in  a difficult  situation because  there is  a PFD                                                               
statute that says, "pay this  amount," but the state doesn't have                                                               
enough money to pay a statutory dividend.                                                                                       
CHAIR CLAMAN,  regarding the dividend  amount, said the  court is                                                               
very clear that "we don't have to."                                                                                             
MR. BARNHILL responded  that he thinks that the  court would also                                                               
say  that because  the legislature's  power  of appropriation  is                                                               
plenary,  it is  constitutional.   He said  that it  is the  same                                                               
policy issue with  respect to Senate Bill 26 [signed  into law on                                                               
6/27/18, during the Thirtieth Alaska  State Legislature] as it is                                                               
to AS 43.23.                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CLAMAN,  with  reference  to  the  aforementioned  Harvard                                                               
study,  asked how  much  of Harvard's  total  annual spending  is                                                               
being paid  by the  endowment.  He  shared that  Alaska's current                                                               
endowment to support state government is 70 percent.                                                                            
MR. BARNHILL replied  that he does not know, but  he can get that                                                               
information  to  the committee.    He  commented that  there  are                                                               
hundreds  of  university endowments;  some  account  for a  small                                                               
percentage  of  the  budget,  while  some  account  for  a  large                                                               
percentage of the budget.                                                                                                       
1:42:26 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MAHONEY shared  that she was advised that  it was 70                                                               
percent but  could provide that  specific data to  the committee.                                                               
She noted that she was surprised by that number.                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN,  with regard  to Representative  Drummond's earlier                                                               
question  about  how  the  CBR, the  earnings  reserve,  and  the                                                               
permanent fund corpus  are invested, asked if  those three aren't                                                               
invested  differently  due to  issues  of  liquidity.   He  asked                                                               
Commissioner Mahoney if she could detail those differences.                                                                     
COMMISSIONER MAHONEY responded that  the earnings reserve and the                                                               
corpus  are  invested  the  same but  are  simply  accounted  for                                                               
differently.  She  explained that the two accounts  have the same                                                               
asset  allocation,   which  is  a  high-risk   allocation.    She                                                               
explained  that  the  CBR  is  a  working  capital  fund  and  is                                                               
currently invested  in cash  equivalents, which  is significantly                                                               
lower.   She said that this  is why these draws  would be managed                                                               
based on need.                                                                                                                  
1:43:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN opened public testimony on CSHJR 7(STA).                                                                           
1:44:53 PM                                                                                                                    
YOLANDA  CLARY  testified  in   support  of  Governor  Dunleavy's                                                               
proposal to  protect the PFD.   She  explained that she  wants to                                                               
protect the  PFD, wants it  preserved and reestablished,  and she                                                               
wants  a  voice  for  the  people  who are  not  a  part  of  the                                                               
legislature.   She  proposed that  [the legislature]  follows the                                                               
Governor's formula and proposals to protect the PFD.                                                                            
1:46:01 PM                                                                                                                    
DAVID HURN expressed  that he is sick of  the legislature robbing                                                               
[Alaska  residents] of  what is  rightfully [theirs].   Mr.  Hurn                                                               
stated  that he  wants  the legislature  to  follow the  original                                                               
formula  set up  behind the  dividend and  its distribution.   He                                                               
expressed that he  felt the legislature was  not representing the                                                               
will of the  people, and reiterated that he felt  it was thievery                                                               
not to distribute the full statutory PFD.                                                                                       
1:47:37 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE COONS spoke in support of SJR  6 over HJR 7.  He accused the                                                               
legislature of  being more concerned with  government growth than                                                               
with the health of the economy.   He argued that Alaskans getting                                                               
a  full  PFD would  circulate  more  money  in the  economy  than                                                               
[government  contracts to]  special interest  groups.   He stated                                                               
that he does not support the  percent of market value (POMV) cap,                                                               
and that he  believes it is being abused.   Mr. Coons argued that                                                               
past  legislatures stayed  within  the budget,  but recently  the                                                               
legislature has  spent down  the CBR  and now  is going  to spend                                                               
down the  ERA.   He proposed a  4 percent POMV  cap with  a 50/50                                                               
split instead of a 5 percent POMV cap.                                                                                          
1:49:46 PM                                                                                                                    
DANA  YORK compared  the governor's  proposal to  "the bridge  to                                                               
nowhere," explaining that it doesn't  make any sense.  She opined                                                               
that the legislature  is robbing the people.   She expressed that                                                               
she wants  the legislature  to use the  original formula  for the                                                               
PFD, and she agreed with the  previous testifier, Mr. Coons.  Ms.                                                               
York explained  that she  voted for the  governor because  he was                                                               
going to  pay out full PFDs,  but this hasn't happened  yet.  She                                                               
suggested that the  legislature has been using  funds they should                                                               
not use and has been misspending.                                                                                               
1:52:04 PM                                                                                                                    
JENNIFER GRAHAM testified in support  of the governor's proposal.                                                               
She expressed  that she found the  legislature's overspending the                                                               
last six  years to be  shameful, and she advised  the legislature                                                               
needs to  take a hard  look and  cut budgets, just  like Alaskans                                                               
are  expected  to do  at  home.    She  said she  thinks  elected                                                               
officials  should want  the public  to vote  to constitutionalize                                                               
any  changes,  because elected  officials  can  be voted  out  of                                                               
office if they do not listen to their constituents.                                                                             
1:53:38 PM                                                                                                                    
BARBARA TYNDALL  testified in  support of  HJR 7  and SJR  6, the                                                               
latter of which  she thought might contain better  language.  She                                                               
said that she believes the [PFD]  belongs to the people and needs                                                               
to be  protected for future  Alaskans, and she wants  everyone to                                                               
stop fighting over it.                                                                                                          
1:54:23 PM                                                                                                                    
ED COLEY  testified that  he is strongly  in favor  of protecting                                                               
the  PFD.   He pointed  out that  he doesn't  spend more  than he                                                               
makes.   He urged  for the  PFD to be  protected under  the state                                                               
constitution for future generations.                                                                                            
1:55:51 PM                                                                                                                    
MARIANNE MERRILL testified that the  legislators who first set up                                                               
the  PFD predicted  the greed  of future  legislators would  make                                                               
them want  to take the  money, and so  they tried to  protect the                                                               
fund.   She pointed out that  a household can't spend  more money                                                               
than it  has and then asked  why the state thought  it could. She                                                               
questioned whether  the 50/50  provision of HJR  7 would  hold up                                                               
twenty years  down the line  because "pretty soon we're  going to                                                               
want another  50/50."   She encouraged  the legislature  to spend                                                               
1:58:04 PM                                                                                                                    
DANIEL  KRUEGER testified  that  [the PFD  formula]  needs to  be                                                               
enshrined  in the  Alaska Constitution,  calling it  "a political                                                               
football" that has  been passed around for the  last half decade.                                                               
He further  argued that the  continued debate [about the  PFD and                                                               
overspending] prevents lawmakers from  addressing the real issues                                                               
facing the  state.  He  noted that  Alaska has spent  through its                                                               
savings, and this  could "right that ship." He  continued that he                                                               
finds the  current 80/20 split  to be unacceptable, and  that the                                                               
proposal legislation has serious merit.                                                                                         
2:00:06 PM                                                                                                                    
BILLY  LIVENGOOD   acknowledged  Mr.  Coons  and   Ms.  Merrill's                                                               
testimony.   He suggested that the  PFD is "headed down  the same                                                               
path as ... government social  security."  He expressed that this                                                               
money is  not for state revenue;  it is for state  residents.  He                                                               
noted that he spoke with other  legislators and saw merit in [SJR
6].   He urged the  legislature to  reduce its dependency  on the                                                               
PFD and suggested  review from an independent company  to be sure                                                               
[the PFD] wasn't being abused.                                                                                                  
2:01:42 PM                                                                                                                    
RHONDA ATKINS testified in support  of keeping the permanent fund                                                               
at 50/50.   She stated  that the  legislature thinks the  fund is                                                               
its own money,  and that some legislators think  they are smarter                                                               
than  their constituents.   She  hopes that  the legislature  can                                                               
come to a  nice equal deal, even  though it is a  bitter pill for                                                               
some, because "we're all tired of it."                                                                                          
2:02:48 PM                                                                                                                    
TERI STICKLER testified that she  agreed with the majority of the                                                               
previous  testimony  from  constituents.    The  [statutory  PFD]                                                               
language  was originally  a fifty/fifty  split,  she stated,  and                                                               
government has far exceeded the  budgetary amount for that split.                                                               
She commented  that if HJR 7  and SJR 6 are  enabling factors [in                                                               
reversing that],  then "we need  to effectuate those as  they are                                                               
written."  She said that she  felt it apparent that [Alaska] does                                                               
not need as  many state positions and state offices  as there are                                                               
currently,  citing the  amount  of people  who  worked from  home                                                               
during the pandemic.  She then insinuated that many  of the state                                                               
employees  who worked  remotely  were not  actually working,  and                                                               
this has cost the state.                                                                                                        
2:04:13 PM                                                                                                                    
KELLY  GRIFFIN testified  that the  permanent fund  is a  massive                                                               
gift to  the state.   She  said the  legislature wastes  funds by                                                               
arguing instead of  passing a budget and suggested  that PFDs are                                                               
being used to pay for special  sessions.  She testified that this                                                               
legislation needs  to be constitutionalized to  protect the fund,                                                               
and  that the  original statutory  formula should  be used.   She                                                               
explained  that she  is very  suspicious of  the POMV,  asking if                                                               
market  value  was  a  hard  number.    She  said  she  does  not                                                               
understand how  market value works,  and she would prefer  to use                                                               
earnings  in the  formula, since  she found  it to  be an  easier                                                               
2:05:59 PM                                                                                                                    
RODNEY KAY  testified in  support of  HJR 7  and opined  that the                                                               
50/50 split would be fair and equitable.                                                                                        
2:06:22 PM                                                                                                                    
BERT HOUGHTALING testified  in opposition to HJR  7 and expressed                                                               
his opinion that HJR 7 would  take away the mineral rights of the                                                               
people of Alaska, which would  negate the purpose of the original                                                               
creation of  the PFD.   He  shared his  understanding that  HJR 7                                                               
would not protect  the 50/50 split under the  Constitution of the                                                               
State of Alaska.                                                                                                                
2:08:09 PM                                                                                                                    
GAIL LIMBAUGH-MOORE testified  in opposition to HJR  7 and shared                                                               
that she  supports the original 50/50  split.  She said  that the                                                               
50/50 split has worked for many  years.  She expressed that Donna                                                               
Arduin was "one  of the best budget directors the  state has ever                                                               
seen."  She  shared her understanding that there  are billions of                                                               
dollars  sitting in  accounts while  legislators are  saying that                                                               
the state doesn't have any money.                                                                                               
2:09:47 PM                                                                                                                    
ANGIE SULZER testified in opposition  to HJR 7 and companion bill                                                               
SJR 6.   She opined that  the formula that is  already in statute                                                               
should  be  constitutionalized,  and  that doing  so  would  help                                                               
increase public trust.   She stated that she does  not agree with                                                               
the governor's  method because she does  not think it is  fair or                                                               
equitable.  She  said she thinks that the PFD  should function in                                                               
the way  it was originally  intended.  She suggested,  other ways                                                               
to  address the  state's fiscal  situation such  as investing  in                                                               
industries   and   cutting  oil   credits.      She  shared   her                                                               
understanding  that a  lot  of  people think  that  the state  is                                                               
overspending, but she said it is  not; the budget has been cut by                                                               
25 percent  since former  State of  Alaska Governor  Sean Parnell                                                               
was in office.                                                                                                                  
2:12:20 PM                                                                                                                    
ALMA  CABALLERO  testified  that   the  language  [regarding  the                                                               
permanent fund]  needs to be put  in the constitution.   She said                                                               
what is happening is "not right" and  "we need to show it when we                                                               
2:13:12 PM                                                                                                                    
BETH FREAD  stated that her main  concern is that there  are many                                                               
laws  written  into   statute  that  are  not   followed  by  the                                                               
legislature.  She said that  she is supportive of the traditional                                                               
PFD format.   She expressed  that legislators are not  giving the                                                               
people an appropriate portion of the money.                                                                                     
2:14:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MARIE  ENGLISH testified  in  support  of HJR  7  and shared  her                                                               
opinion  that  the  Dunleavy  Administration  has  presented  the                                                               
information is  an understandable  way.   She suggested  that the                                                               
legislators  emulate Governor  Dunleavy  because she  understands                                                               
that he is  working for the people.   She said that HJR  7 is not                                                               
perfect,  but   it  is  an   improvement.    She   expressed  her                                                               
frustration  that this  issue has  been time  consuming and  that                                                               
there  are  other  priorities  in  the  state  that  need  to  be                                                               
addressed, such as education and the road system.                                                                               
2:16:52 PM                                                                                                                    
TIMOTHY INGRAHAM testified  in opposition to HJR  7 and expressed                                                               
that Alaska  has "a lot  of issues"  such as the  legislators not                                                               
listening to  the will of the  people.  He said  that he supports                                                               
the 50/50  split, and  it is  the legislators'  responsibility to                                                               
ensure  that  the  split  is  maintained.   He  spoke  about  his                                                               
perception  of ineffective  spending in  the state,  such as  not                                                               
opening schools [during  the COVID-19 pandemic] due to  fear of a                                                               
"fake  virus."   He  expressed  the PFD  should  go  back to  its                                                               
original formula  and that the  government should not  "rob Peter                                                               
to pay Paul."                                                                                                                   
2:18:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SHIRLEY MARTIN  testified in  opposition to HJR  7 and  said that                                                               
although she supports Governor Dunleavy,  she thinks that the PFD                                                               
should go back  to its original formula and should  be put in the                                                               
constitution.   She  said that  she agrees  with Mr.  Ingraham in                                                               
that legislators  have been  "taking our money  away from  us for                                                               
the last six  years."  She expressed that this  money needs to be                                                               
paid back and  that legislators had no right to  take that money.                                                               
She shared her understanding that 75  to 80 percent of the people                                                               
of Alaska  need that  money.  She  demanded that  the legislators                                                               
solve the PFD issue immediately and end the special session.                                                                    
2:20:10 PM                                                                                                                    
FRANCES REESE shared  that she was living in Alaska  when the PFD                                                               
was  originally set  up.   She expressed  her understanding  that                                                               
there was a  man in the legislature that took  money from the PFD                                                               
to support his own interests  and that that process has continued                                                               
since then.   She stated  that she is in  favor of going  back to                                                               
the original  formula for  the PFD.   She  shared that  the money                                                               
from  the  PFD  would  allow   people  to  participate  in  their                                                               
community as well as give to the "poor and needy."                                                                              
2:22:00 PM                                                                                                                    
STEVEN  OUDEAN  offered  a  prayer,  during  which  he  expressed                                                               
support for the way the PFD was set up originally.                                                                              
2:23:36 PM                                                                                                                    
ADAM HYKES opined that HJR 7  is not fair and equitable, and that                                                               
the government  has "gobbled up"  50 percent of the  dividend for                                                               
the past  three years.   He  said that  the PFD  is treated  as a                                                               
budgetary item  that the legislature  may or may  not appropriate                                                               
according  to  the  "boom  and  bust" of  economic  cycles.    He                                                               
expressed that  the PFD is not  revenue and that calling  HJR 7 a                                                               
protection of the  PFD is a "slap  in the face."   He opined that                                                               
the original  statute should be  enshrined into  the constitution                                                               
and that  the government should  be hands  off and should  not be                                                               
entrusted to be responsible [for the permanent fund].                                                                           
2:25:38 PM                                                                                                                    
GARY PARSONS  expressed that the PFD  belongs to the people.   He                                                               
said  that the  PFD  helps  the economy,  the  children, and  the                                                               
elderly, particularly in villages.   He said that he supports the                                                               
governor, but he also supports the people.                                                                                      
2:27:45 PM                                                                                                                    
The committee took an at-ease from 2:27 p.m. to 2:28 p.m.                                                                       
2:28:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SHARLI  ARNTZEN  stated  that   she  supports  returning  to  the                                                               
original PFD  formula and  asked the  legislature to  respect the                                                               
original intent of the fund.   She advised playing the "long game                                                               
as well as the  short game."  She also said  that the state needs                                                               
to do better when budgeting.                                                                                                    
2:30:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MARK SQUIRE testified that he has  lived in Alaska since 1970 and                                                               
that  he  respectfully requests  a  return  to the  original  PFD                                                               
formula because "the problem's already fixed."                                                                                  
2:31:04 PM                                                                                                                    
DANIEL HARRINGTON said that he has  been in Alaska since 1997 and                                                               
believes that the government has  become increasingly corrupt and                                                               
that  current officeholders  are  distrustful; he  opined that  a                                                               
financial  audit  with  "some  criminality  attached  to  it"  is                                                               
needed.   He said that  he has done the  math and that  a billion                                                               
dollars a year  is missing, the PFD has been  robbed, and that he                                                               
has heard  talk of tarring and  feathering people in Juneau.   He                                                               
stated that he  is not making a threat but  that legislators "are                                                               
like  the  bully on  the  playground  and pretty  soon,  someday,                                                               
you're  going to  get popped  in the  snout," not  by him  but by                                                               
2:33:20 PM                                                                                                                    
MICHELLE WILLIAMS testified that she  has lived in Soldotna since                                                               
1997.  She  stated her belief that many people  move to Alaska to                                                               
get the  PFD; therefore,  she recommended a  tier system  for the                                                               
distribution of  the PFD according to  how long one has  lived in                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
2:35:46 PM                                                                                                                    
GREG COLLINS  stated his support  for SJR  6 but related  that he                                                               
has  not yet  read CSHJR  7(STA).   He  said that  he would  like                                                               
Alaska residents to get "the full PFD."                                                                                         
2:36:35 PM                                                                                                                    
JAN DELAND  opined that  the state  spent "so  much when  we were                                                               
awash  with oil  money" and  that continued  overspending is  the                                                               
problem.  She said she  supports "keeping the current statute the                                                               
way it is" and expressed  anger for "when [Governor] Walker first                                                               
stole half of the  PFD."  She highlighted her use  of the PFD for                                                               
her  children's   education  and   talked  about   the  "bloated"                                                               
education system.                                                                                                               
2:38:57 PM                                                                                                                    
SUE CHRISTIANSEN  testified that she opposes  Governor Dunleavy's                                                               
proposal  and  that  she  hopes  that  the  state  starts  taxing                                                               
corporations at a higher rate.                                                                                                  
2:39:44 PM                                                                                                                    
MITCHELL JACOBUS opined  that there are many angry  people in the                                                               
state and  characterized the legislature  as stealing money.   He                                                               
suggested  that the  state "go  back  to the  way it  was set  up                                                               
originally" and follow the law.                                                                                                 
2:41:33 PM                                                                                                                    
BRAULION MONTELONGO testified  that he moved to  Alaska last year                                                               
and  that  he  supports  Governor   Dunleavy's  plan  because  he                                                               
believes that politicians  need to stop diverting  funds from the                                                               
PFD.  He opined that Alaskans  can spend the dividend better than                                                               
the legislature can.                                                                                                            
2:42:47 PM                                                                                                                    
LAURA BONNER  stated her opposition to  HJR 7 and SJR  6 because,                                                               
she  opined, they  divert the  appropriation  authority from  the                                                               
legislature,  preventing   public  services  and   programs  from                                                               
getting  needed attention.   She  expressed her  belief that  the                                                               
state  government  needs  to  have  the  flexibility  to  address                                                               
unknown challenges.                                                                                                             
2:44:32 PM                                                                                                                    
MELODONNA CODY  testified strongly  in support of  the governor's                                                               
proposal and  stated that she would  like to see the  50/50 split                                                               
constitutionalized.   She  stated she  wanted the  legislators to                                                               
end their  expensive bickering and  wasteful spending.   She also                                                               
said that  education in Alaska  has declined, and the  more money                                                               
the legislature spends on [education] the worse it gets.                                                                        
2:46:25 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  DIANA CHADWELL  testified that  she and  her family  rely on                                                               
their PFDs.  She wants the  legislature to listen to the governor                                                               
and  enact his  PFD protection  proposals.   Dr. Chadwell  stated                                                               
that  she  wants  enforced restitution  of  previously  garnished                                                               
2:48:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CAROL  DREESZEN testified  in favor  of the  governor's proposal,                                                               
but  said she  would prefer  a  full PFD.   She  stated that  the                                                               
legislature has been incompetent and has misused the fund.                                                                      
2:50:07 PM                                                                                                                    
ED  MARSHALL testified  that he  was extremely  unhappy with  the                                                               
legislature for  not working with  Governor Dunleavy.   He argued                                                               
that taking  the permanent fund is  stealing from the poor.   Mr.                                                               
Marshall stated that the legislature  has made no budget cuts and                                                               
has  done  nothing to  fulfill  its  budgetary obligations.    He                                                               
stated that he wants budget requirements constitutionalized.                                                                    
2:52:27 PM                                                                                                                    
DONALD BELL testified  that the legislature had  to stop stealing                                                               
from people  and hiding  money.   He spoke  about the  efforts of                                                               
Governor  Dunleavy  and  opined  that  Alaska  doesn't  need  big                                                               
government.   He chastised the  legislature for  not distributing                                                               
full PFDs.                                                                                                                      
2:54:32 PM                                                                                                                    
KIMBERLY  HOELSCHER  declared, "Whose  dividend  is  this?   It's                                                               
mine."    She  emphatically  stated  that the  PFD  was  not  the                                                               
legislature's to spend.                                                                                                         
2:56:26 PM                                                                                                                    
NICK MAZZOLINI  testified that he supports  SJR 6.  He  said in a                                                               
perfect  world he  would like  to follow  the original  statutory                                                               
formula,  but he  supports the  governor's plan  to enshrine  the                                                               
50/50 draw into  the constitution.  He stated that  he hopes this                                                               
will "take  the easy money off  the table" and act  as a spending                                                               
cap.     Mr.  Mazzolini  said   that  the   legislature  couldn't                                                               
responsibly manage its portion of  the earnings and should not be                                                               
allowed to spend the people's portion.                                                                                          
2:58:03 PM                                                                                                                    
CONNI CAREY testified that she  has watched Governor Dunleavy try                                                               
to reinstate the permanent fund, and she supports his decision.                                                                 
2:58:41 PM                                                                                                                    
ALEX  MCDONALD testified  that the  legislature needs  to respect                                                               
existing statutes.   He noted that the 90-day  session statute is                                                               
not being followed.  He opined  that the legislature has not been                                                               
able  to effectively  manage its  portion of  the permanent  fund                                                               
earnings; therefore, he questioned  why the legislature should be                                                               
allowed to  mismanage [Alaska citizens']  portion.   Mr. McDonald                                                               
clarified that  [the dividend payout]  is not a  government piggy                                                               
bank.  He said [the PFD] needs to be protected.                                                                                 
3:00:34 PM                                                                                                                    
The committee took an at-ease from 3:00 p.m. to 3:12 p.m.                                                                       
3:11:57 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLIAM  JOHNSON testified  that oil  was found  in 1968  and oil                                                               
companies  built the  road to  Prudhoe Bay  and the  Trans Alaska                                                               
Pipeline in  two and a  half years.  He  said, "I opposed  any of                                                               
this  stuff, and  I  think  we should  have  a  referendum or  an                                                               
initiative to let the Permanent  Fund Corporation develop the oil                                                               
3:13:59 PM                                                                                                                    
STEVEN  CANTOR characterized  the legislature  as stealing  money                                                               
from  his children  and  opined that  the PFD  was  put into  the                                                               
constitution  "to keep  future generations  of legislatures  from                                                               
stealing  that money  to shore  up a  state government  they were                                                               
elected to run."                                                                                                                
3:15:06 PM                                                                                                                    
EMILY PETTITT stated  her belief that the state  should adhere to                                                               
the  original language  of the  PFD and  stay within  the budget.                                                               
She opined that those who leave  Alaska for long periods of time,                                                               
or are on  military assignment, are not living as  Alaskans.  She                                                               
requested an end to the debates.                                                                                                
3:16:43 PM                                                                                                                    
MICHELLE MULLINS  said that  she wants to  know what  happened to                                                               
the  PFD   since  the   first  $1,000   payment  in   1982,  then                                                               
characterized  more recent  circumstances  as "rape."   She  then                                                               
stated her belief  that legislators are well-paid,  and said that                                                               
in her  capacity as a State  of Alaska employee she  noticed that                                                               
budgets  vary   between  departments.     She  opined   that  the                                                               
legislators are mismanaging the state.                                                                                          
3:19:21 PM                                                                                                                    
CRIS  EICHENLAUB stated  his  belief that  due  to problems  with                                                               
trust and  integrity, the PDF needs  to be enshrined.   He opined                                                               
that  "there is  no  reason why  we can't  have  that money"  and                                                               
characterized integrity as being "like  virginity - once you lose                                                               
it, it's gone forever."                                                                                                         
3:21:19 PM                                                                                                                    
JORDAN  STEVENSON stated  her support  for Governor  Dunleavy and                                                               
opined that  the original PFD  formula worked for many  years and                                                               
should work  now.  She  said that  government was not  created to                                                               
tax workers and create programs,  and she requested that the full                                                               
statutory PFD be enshrined in the state constitution.                                                                           
3:22:13 PM                                                                                                                    
NATHAN  RANK  expressed  his   support  for  Governor  Dunleavy's                                                               
efforts to protect the PFD and  opined that the PFD was "designed                                                               
to  be distributed  to  the people,  for the  people,  not to  be                                                               
stolen from  us without having any  kind of vote by  the people."                                                               
He recommended the PFD be reinstated to the 50/50 formula.                                                                      
3:23:28 PM                                                                                                                    
SHIRLEY  EMERY stated  that she  agrees  with almost  all of  the                                                               
testimony heard,  and said that  the PFD  "should go back  to the                                                               
original  way that  they  started out  to be."    She stated  her                                                               
belief  that once  funds  are  removed, "it  never  stops."   She                                                               
opined that a  state budget is like balancing  her own checkbook,                                                               
and she stated  that "we'll continue to have  this" until certain                                                               
legislators are  voted out.  She  stated that she depends  on the                                                               
PFD every year in order to keep her house.                                                                                      
3:26:28 PM                                                                                                                    
TONYA  KITKA  stated her  support  for  enshrining the  statutory                                                               
formula  for the  PFD  in the  state  constitution and  expressed                                                               
confusion  regarding the  information available,  giving a  quick                                                               
synopsis  of the  PFD.   She stated  that the  calculations don't                                                               
change,  so there  is  no reason  why the  PFD  couldn't be  paid                                                               
according to the original calculations.                                                                                         
3:28:58 PM                                                                                                                    
JERRY  FOGG stated  his  support for  moving  the legislators  to                                                               
Anchorage or  "the valley" and  characterized the  legislators as                                                               
having   parties   in   Juneau    with   no   responsibility   or                                                               
accountability.    He said  that  legislators  are "stealing  our                                                               
3:29:50 PM                                                                                                                    
TABITHA  NARDINI spoke  about  Alaska's  subsurface rights  being                                                               
sold and opined  that "our water, our gas,  our coal, everything,                                                               
our gravel,  has to be  taxed."  She  stated her belief  that the                                                               
reason  for  the PFD  is  to  "make Alaska  sustainable"  because                                                               
farmers buy feed, heating oil,  winter clothes, and provide tires                                                               
and cars.   She opined that  90 percent of Alaskans  need the PFD                                                               
and that it needs to be distributed in October instead of July.                                                                 
3:32:24 PM                                                                                                                    
THERESA  OBERMEYER  expressed opposition  to  constitutionalizing                                                               
the PFD.   She advised creative thinking and  highlighted the $79                                                               
billion in the  Alaska Permanent Fund.  Additionally,  she drew a                                                               
comparison between  the Alaska Permanent Fund  Corporation (APFC)                                                               
Board of  Trustees and Norway's $1.3  trillion Government Pension                                                               
Fund, which was started in 1990.                                                                                                
3:35:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAD  CREEGER testified  in  opposition to  HJR 7.    He said  he                                                               
supports  enshrining  the  original   statutory  formula  in  the                                                               
constitution to  "stop the  theft."  He  offered his  belief that                                                               
there   is  a   problem  with   government  spending   and  urged                                                               
legislators to cut the budget.                                                                                                  
3:36:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SUSAN HONAN expressed support for  preserving the PFD's statutory                                                               
formula.  Additionally,  she suggested that the  state repay "the                                                               
amount that was  taken from the people by Governor  Walker."  She                                                               
offered her  belief that the  legislature should not  have access                                                               
to  50 percent  [of  the  statutory net  income]  because it  was                                                               
intended for the people.                                                                                                        
3:38:23 PM                                                                                                                    
COLLETTE BURKE stated her support  for returning to the statutory                                                               
formula  to   calculate  the   dividend.     She  said   the  PFD                                                               
incentivized employees and brought talented people to Alaska.                                                                   
3:38:59 PM                                                                                                                    
EDNA  JOHANSON offered  her belief  that while  operating out  of                                                               
Juneau, legislators  are distanced from the  "every day Alaskan."                                                               
Furthermore,   she   maintained   that   when   the   legislature                                                               
overspends, it  is taking  from its fellow  Alaskans.   She urged                                                               
the legislature  to do  what's best for  both present  and future                                                               
3:40:22 PM                                                                                                                    
TERESA  SMITH  expressed  support for  preserving  the  statutory                                                               
formula and  for Governor Dunleavy's  efforts to instate  the PFD                                                               
as a constitutional amendment.   She highlighted the high cost of                                                               
living in  Alaska and discussed the  impacts of a reduced  PFD on                                                               
the poor and fixed-income individuals.                                                                                          
3:42:02 PM                                                                                                                    
RICHARD EVERETT said the PFD  should return to its original form.                                                               
He equated paying for government  services with the dividend to a                                                               
disproportionate tax on Alaskans.                                                                                               
3:43:11 PM}                                                                                                                   
SHARLYN  COLE testified  that  she  supports Governor  Dunleavy's                                                               
plan to  protect the PFD within  the constitution.  She  said she                                                               
would like  to stick with  statutory formula, but  indicated that                                                               
because there  are lawmakers  that break  the law,  many Alaskans                                                               
are "forced to accept something"  they should not have to accept.                                                               
She expressed  outrage over a  legislature that feels it  has the                                                               
right to break the law without consequence.                                                                                     
3:45:00 PM                                                                                                                    
TARA SPRAGUE said she wants the  state laws regarding the PFD "to                                                               
go back to  original 1964 context, that the  Alaska people should                                                               
make the decision of  the PFD."  She said she is  a single mom on                                                               
social security and disability, who  is struggling because of the                                                               
decisions that have  been made regarding the  PFD, especially the                                                               
decision by Governor  Walker.  She opined that the  money he took                                                               
away should be paid back to  the people of Alaska.  She concurred                                                               
with Governor Dunleavy's decisions regarding the PFD.                                                                           
3:46:42 PM                                                                                                                    
KRISTIN  CASH testified  in  support  of a  full  dividend.   She                                                               
talked  about  justification  not   making  something  right,  in                                                               
relation to  the decision by  Governor Walker to take  money from                                                               
the PFD.   She encouraged the legislature to learn  how to keep a                                                               
healthy budget and  spend within its means.  She  said her family                                                               
is in  Alaska to stay,  and the PFD helps  with the high  cost of                                                               
living in the state.                                                                                                            
3:49:03 PM                                                                                                                    
LARRY WEBB talked  about the history of PFD starting  as a tiered                                                               
system and  being changed  to a  formula to  return a  portion of                                                               
taxes on oil to  the people of the state.   He opined that Alaska                                                               
should go  back to original  formula, because  legislators cannot                                                               
be trusted not to spend the entire permanent fund.                                                                              
3:51:24 PM                                                                                                                    
ELLA COTTER  expressed her support  of Governor Dunleavy  and her                                                               
love  of Alaska.   She  acknowledged that  legislators are  doing                                                               
their best and  asked them to consider that the  PFD helps people                                                               
live in the  state.  She shared some of  the essentials purchased                                                               
with her PFDs over the years  and how the PFD helps Alaskans live                                                               
in  the state.   She  stated  her support  of "a  full PFD,  with                                                               
3:52:26 PM                                                                                                                    
PAGE HALL talked about the PFD  belonging to the people of Alaska                                                               
and  linked   taking  away   PFD  monies   from  the   people  to                                                               
homelessness and other social issues.                                                                                           
3:55:03 PM                                                                                                                    
JESSICA COX compared using the  PFD to address budget concerns as                                                               
"taking  the low-hanging  fruit."   She stated  her support  of a                                                               
full  statutory  PFD,  and  she  expressed  support  of  Governor                                                               
Dunleavy's  proposal to  enshrine  the PFD  in the  constitution.                                                               
She asked legislators to consider how the PFD affects families.                                                                 
3:56:55 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAD DYER  testified in  support of  a full  PFD.   He encouraged                                                               
actions be  taken to prevent  the legislature from  continuing to                                                               
"taking" from [Alaskans].                                                                                                       
3:58:02 PM                                                                                                                    
JESSI WALTON testified  in support of HJR 7.   She explained that                                                               
she  would actually  prefer "the  original  50 percent  statutory                                                               
PFD"  but offered  her understanding  that  "we have  a bunch  of                                                               
legislators that  don't know how to  keep their hands out  of the                                                               
coat pocket."   She said  she would rather  see [the PFD]  in the                                                               
3:58:42 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLY KEPPEL  testified in support of  a full PFD and  payback of                                                               
that portion which was taken from  Alaskans.  He talked about the                                                               
college fund  his daughter has that  should have more in  it than                                                               
it does.   He  expressed support  for the  companion bill  in the                                                               
Senate, SJR 6, as  well as SJR 1, but said  he is uncertain about                                                               
the wording  in [CSHJR 7(STA)].   He emphasized that  any mention                                                               
of "may  pay the PFD" should  be changed to "shall  pay the PFD."                                                               
He indicated the money is there.                                                                                                
4:01:11 PM                                                                                                                    
KENNEDY SERR  testified that the  people of Alaska  should decide                                                               
and the annual debate  about the PFD should be put  to rest.  She                                                               
stated support  of HJR 7  and SJR  6 and encouraged  a bipartisan                                                               
4:02:24 PM                                                                                                                    
SAM  ALBANESE   testified  in  support  of   Governor  Dunleavy's                                                               
proposal to amend  the constitution in order to  protect the PFD.                                                               
He opined, "We  don't have a revenue problem; we  have a spending                                                               
4:02:53 PM                                                                                                                    
RENEE  WELLINGTON testified  in support  of paying  the full  PFD                                                               
this year and putting the  original permanent fund formula in the                                                               
constitution.   She  talked about  the money  that trickles  back                                                               
into the  economy from the  PFD, and she  said each time  the PFD                                                               
has been  decreased, it has  not been  done legally.   She opined                                                               
that  the  testimony on  this  topic  has illustrated  that  [the                                                               
legislature] has "poked the bear and you're getting bit."                                                                       
4:04:44 PM                                                                                                                    
VERN NUSUNGINYA  testified in support of  the governor's proposal                                                               
on the PFD.   He emphasized that the PFD  is "the people's money"                                                               
and is good for the state's economy.                                                                                            
4:05:45 PM                                                                                                                    
JEAN HOLT  testified in opposition  to HJR 7 as  legislation that                                                               
"would steal our  PFD forever."  She said she  supports SJR 1 and                                                               
SJR 6.                                                                                                                          
4:06:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CLAYTON TROTTER offered  his understanding of the  history of the                                                               
dividend, including that private  properties were taken and given                                                               
to the  state and federal government,  and the idea was  to share                                                               
the monies  made with  the people  via a dividend.   He  said his                                                               
move to Alaska  for a job included bargaining related  to his pay                                                               
and there  being a dividend,  but when  he got here  the dividend                                                               
was  cut in  half.   He said  that is  fraud.   He stated,  "Quit                                                               
defrauding the people, please."                                                                                                 
4:09:19 PM                                                                                                                    
CINDY HUDGINS  testified in support  of the original  PFD formula                                                               
and reimbursement  of that  which was taken  from Alaskans.   She                                                               
questioned  why  this  is  a   continuing  issue,  and  expressed                                                               
appreciation for  Governor Dunleavy's fighting for  the people of                                                               
Alaska  despite "running  into brick  walls."   She said  crooked                                                               
politicians forget they work for  the people; and Governor Walker                                                               
found a  loophole regarding  the PFD.   She urged  protecting the                                                               
PFD under the constitution so that this is never again an issue.                                                                
4:10:53 PM                                                                                                                    
BEAU  CORK testified  in  support of  HJR  7 and  SJR  6, and  in                                                               
support  of Governor  Dunleavy.   He  acknowledged  the work  the                                                               
legislature does on the budget.   He mentioned the poor in Alaska                                                               
and the  effects of the  pandemic on people.   He said  he thinks                                                               
increasing the PFD  would result in money poured  right back into                                                               
the economy.                                                                                                                    
4:12:34 PM                                                                                                                    
NANCY CARTER, JR opined that  what Governor Walker did was wrong,                                                               
and the  money should be given  back to the people.   She praised                                                               
Governor  Hammond for  his  role [in  establishing  the PFD]  and                                                               
supported a  return to the original  formula.  She added  that if                                                               
Governor Dunleavy  "can do what  he can do"  it would be  "a good                                                               
thing."   She said  she agreed  with the  prior testimony  of Ms.                                                               
4:14:58 PM                                                                                                                    
DEBBIE CUSTIS said  she lives in Texas, not Alaska,  but lived in                                                               
Oregon, where  she said the  people used  to have "a  kicker" but                                                               
the legislature  stole it from  them.  She expressed  respect for                                                               
Governor  Dunleavy,  accused  legislators of  stealing  from  the                                                               
people, opined that  what Governor Walker did was  not right, and                                                               
urged the return of the money to the people of Alaska.                                                                          
4:17:24 PM                                                                                                                    
ROBERT "ROB" GEESEN testified that he  is a senior living on $866                                                               
a month.   He expressed his  hope that the PFD  will be enshrined                                                               
in  the constitution,  preferably in  the original  formula.   He                                                               
suggested that if the legislature does  not want to do this, then                                                               
perhaps it  is time  to put  the issue before  the people  on the                                                               
2022 ballot.   He further  suggested addressing a  budget deficit                                                               
by suggesting  equal cuts  to all  departments and  leaving those                                                               
agencies to figure out where to trim "the pork."                                                                                
4:19:27 PM                                                                                                                    
JAMES  GREENE,   JR  suggested  a  10-year   waiting  period  for                                                               
immigrants to Alaska to get a  PFD so that the dividend will last                                                               
4:20:40 PM                                                                                                                    
LINDA  LANCE  supported  putting  the PFD  back  into  the  state                                                               
constitution  "as  it  originally  was."   She  said  seniors  on                                                               
limited income use  PFD money to secure their futures.   She said                                                               
the money the  legislature wants to use is  not the legislature's                                                               
money to  use.  She  said she  agrees that if  legislation cannot                                                               
provide for a  full PFD, then the  issue should be put  to a vote                                                               
in an election.                                                                                                                 
4:22:39 PM                                                                                                                    
ADEZE WOKO expressed support for the governor's proposal                                                                        
regarding the PFD.  She remarked on the helpfulness to her                                                                      
family in receiving the PFD.                                                                                                    
4:23:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN closed public testimony on HJR 7.                                                                                  
4:23:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN announced that HJR 7 was held over.                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HJR 7 v. B 5.10.2021.PDF HJUD 5/24/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 6/2/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJR 7 Transmittal Letter 1.19.2021.pdf HJUD 5/24/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 6/2/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJR 7 Sectional Analysis v. B 5.24.2021.pdf HJUD 5/24/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 6/2/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJR 7 Testimony Received by 5.24.2021.pdf HJUD 5/24/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJR 7 Fiscal Note OOG-DOE 1.8.2021.pdf HJUD 5/24/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 6/2/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJR 7 PowerPoint Presentation 5.24.2021.pdf HJUD 5/24/2021 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 6/2/2021 1:00:00 PM