Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 120

03/02/2005 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 155 USE CRIMINAL FINES FOR YOUTH COURTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 155(JUD) Out of Committee
+= HB 132 CRIMES AGAINST ELDERLY TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 132(JUD) Out of Committee
+= HB 107 ATTY FEES: HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 131 ACCESS DEVICE & I.D. DOCUMENT CRIMES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
HB 131 - ACCESS DEVICE & I.D. DOCUMENT CRIMES                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:05:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  announced that the  final order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL   NO.  131,  "An  Act   increasing  the  criminal                                                               
classification of theft  of an access device and  of obtaining an                                                               
access device  or identification  documents by  fraudulent means;                                                               
increasing  the  criminal  classification for  certain  cases  of                                                               
fraudulent  use  of  an  access  device;  and  providing  for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:06:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BEN MULLIGAN, Staff to Representative  Bill Stoltze, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature,  sponsor,   relayed  on  behalf   of  Representative                                                               
Stoltze  that "access  [identification (ID)]  theft is  a growing                                                               
problem in  Alaska" and  nationwide; between  2002 and  2004, the                                                               
number  of complaints  regarding access  ID theft  rose over  152                                                               
percent.   Alaska currently ranks  second [in the nation]  in the                                                               
number of complaints  issued per 100,000 people.   House Bill 131                                                               
proposes to increase  the penalty, from a class  A misdemeanor to                                                               
a class  C felony,  for the  theft of an  access device,  for the                                                               
fraudulent  use  of  an  access   devise,  and  for  fraudulently                                                               
obtaining  an  access device  or  identification  document.   The                                                               
proposed changes  are meant to provide  deterrence and punishment                                                               
for such crimes.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:08:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SAM  TRIVETTE,  AARP;  President,  Retired  Public  Employees  of                                                               
Alaska   (RPEA),  Alaska   Public  Employees   Association/Alaska                                                               
Federation of  Teachers (APEA/AFT), after mentioning  that he has                                                               
been  involved in  the corrections  industry for  over 32  years,                                                               
said  his experience  has shown  him that  it is  clear that  law                                                               
enforcement  resources are  stretched  to the  "nth degree,"  and                                                               
that when such is  the case, if a crime is felony,  it will get a                                                               
lot much more  attention than a misdemeanor.  He  relayed that at                                                               
a recent  seminar regarding identity  theft, there  was testimony                                                               
by police officers acknowledging  "how complicated this situation                                                               
is  and how  much the  impact  is upon  seniors, especially,  who                                                               
sometimes just don't  understand the systems as  they change over                                                               
the years."  He relayed that  the AARP supports HB 131 because it                                                               
thinks  that by  increasing  the penalty  for  "this crime,"  the                                                               
chances are  much more likely  that police will get  involved and                                                               
prosecute the crime.   He noted that police have  also relayed to                                                               
him that  since many ID theft  crimes are committed by  people in                                                               
other  states, if  the crime  is  not a  felony, law  enforcement                                                               
agencies in those  other states will essentially  "blow you off."                                                               
Offering a personal example wherein  his parents had items stolen                                                               
by  caretakers, he  opined that  there is  a need  for sending  a                                                               
strong  message  that  law  enforcement will  use  its  best  and                                                               
strongest efforts to prosecute such crimes as felonies.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:11:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHELLE  LOGAN, Detective,  Anchorage  Police Department  (APD),                                                               
Municipality  of  Anchorage  (MOA),  after noting  that  she  has                                                               
worked  in  the  APD's  fraud  unit for  the  past  three  years,                                                               
testified in  support of  HB 131.   She  relayed that  during the                                                               
past year and  a half, she has seen a  noticeable increase in the                                                               
number of  identity theft reports.   Some of the  reports involve                                                               
crimes that  are committed by  perpetrators in Alaska,  but often                                                               
ID theft originates in other  states.  She mentioned that victims                                                               
of ID  theft have  to spend  a lot of  time getting  their credit                                                               
reports "back  on track."   Most ID  theft the APD  sees involves                                                               
credit card fraud,  she remarked, adding that although  HB 131 is                                                               
not  specifically an  ID theft  bill, if  it is  passed, it  will                                                               
greatly  enhance the  efforts  of law  enforcement  to combat  ID                                                               
theft and will give the APD  the tools with which to put together                                                               
more meaningful cases for prosecution purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. LOGAN, with regard to comments  by Mr. Trivette, said that it                                                               
is not  that law enforcement  will "blow off"  misdemeanor cases;                                                               
rather, there  are just  limited resources  with which  to pursue                                                               
misdemeanor  cases.   In fact,  unless a  crime is  a felony,  it                                                               
doesn't  even get  referred  to the  "detective  division."   She                                                               
indicated that  she has experienced  frustration when  charging a                                                               
person with fraudulent use of an  access device when the crime is                                                               
currently only  a misdemeanor.   She provided  examples regarding                                                               
credit  card  theft  wherein  multiple   charges  were  made  but                                                               
individually  the   amounts  being   charged  only   warranted  a                                                               
misdemeanor.  In  conclusion, she opined that adoption  of HB 131                                                               
will send a  message that Alaska is serious  about protecting its                                                               
citizens against ID theft and  is serious about prosecuting those                                                               
that perpetrate crimes of ID theft.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:16:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAY FOLEY, Co-Executive Director,  Identity Theft Resource Center                                                               
(ITRC), relayed  that the ITRC works  one on one with  victims of                                                               
identity theft  in assisting them  in clearing their  names, from                                                               
the  simple cases  of credit  card "skimming"  and fraud,  to the                                                               
most  complicated criminal  identity theft  cases.   Any and  all                                                               
enhancement  of penalties  dealing with  the subject  of identity                                                               
theft will be a welcome  relief, he remarked; all too frequently,                                                               
law enforcement  agencies are taxed  too greatly to  pursue these                                                               
cases, and when  they are fortunate enough to pursue  them, it is                                                               
almost a  mockery to  the victim  to have  the court  system rule                                                               
that the crime is a minor misdemeanor.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOLEY said  that in the instances when a  perpetrator does go                                                               
to court, he/she should face  tougher penalties, which should act                                                               
as a deterrent to future identity  thieves.  Referring to a study                                                               
the ITRC  released in  2003 regarding  the aftermath  of identity                                                               
theft, he said it indicates that  on average, a victim will spend                                                               
about 600  hours cleaning  up the  mess left  by the  thief, will                                                               
incur  up to  $1,400 in  expenses not  including legal  fees, and                                                               
will suffer from a wide range  of emotional issues because of the                                                               
betrayal and  a lack  of support.   He  said that  identity theft                                                               
victims in  Alaska are imploring the  legislature's consideration                                                               
of HB 131.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:19:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA asked  whether there  are laws  that prevent                                                               
the cardholder  of a  stolen credit card  from being  held liable                                                               
for the charges incurred by the thief.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOLEY  said yes.   Under  the Fair  Credit Reporting  Act and                                                               
other  federal laws,  a cardholder  is only  responsible for  the                                                               
first $50  of loss.  A  caveat, however, is that  this limitation                                                               
only applies if the cardholder  reports the theft promptly, so if                                                               
the cardholder doesn't  notice the theft within  a certain number                                                               
of  days or  fails to  report it  within that  time period,  then                                                               
he/she will become responsible for all charges.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA asked  whether federal  law preempts  states                                                               
from  regulating "that  area," from  saying that  cardholders are                                                               
not responsible for credit card debt incurred without consent.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOLEY, although  offering his  belief that  states would  be                                                               
preempted from such, recommended  that the legislature speak with                                                               
counsel of  the Federal  Trade Commission  (FTC) further  on that                                                               
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
STEVE   CLEARY,  Executive   Director,  Alaska   Public  Interest                                                               
Research Group (AkPIRG),  opined that others have  summed up "the                                                               
great merits"  of HB 131,  and relayed  that the AkPIRG  has been                                                               
trying to get  more identity theft protections  instituted in the                                                               
wake  of the  [recent]  ChoicePoint Inc.  security breach,  which                                                               
resulted  in  nearly  150,000  consumers  having  their  personal                                                               
information  stolen.    He mentioned  that  ChoicePoint  had  its                                                               
security breached several  years ago as well,  but never notified                                                               
those who  became victims of  identity theft  because of it.   He                                                               
raised the issue of possible  amendments, for either this bill or                                                               
another, that would require  mandatory notification when security                                                               
breaches  occur  and  that  would  allow  consumers  to  place  a                                                               
security freeze on their account  information.  He mentioned that                                                               
the AkPIRG  is hopeful that such  changes to current law  will be                                                               
made,  and  opined that  HB  131  is a  good  first  step in  the                                                               
direction [of consumer protection].                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:23:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LINDA WILSON,  Deputy Director,  Central Office,  Public Defender                                                               
Agency  (PDA),  Department  of  Administration  (DOA),  said  she                                                               
agrees with some  of the prior comments  regarding the importance                                                               
of and  concerns over  identity theft.   She  said that  when she                                                               
considers  identity theft,  she is  thinking of  what she  called                                                               
"true identity and  credit card theft," wherein  a stranger comes                                                               
along and takes  on another's identity.  She  mentioned a concern                                                               
regarding familial  situations wherein  a family member  is using                                                               
or taking  another family member's  credit card or  check, noting                                                               
that even if  such were not used, just the  taking of either item                                                               
could result in a felony charge.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILSON  then raised the issue  of fake IDs.   She referred to                                                               
Section   4,  which   makes  obtaining   an   access  devise   or                                                               
identification  document by  fraudulent means  a class  C felony,                                                               
and  noted that  AS  11.81.900(b)(30)  defines an  identification                                                               
document as:                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     "identification  document" means  a paper,  instrument,                                                                    
     or other  article used to  establish the identity  of a                                                                    
     person;  "identification  document" includes  a  social                                                                    
     security    card,   driver's    license,   non-driver's                                                                    
     identification,  birth certificate,  passport, employee                                                                    
     identification, or hunting or fishing license                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WILSON noted  that under  the aforementioned  definition and                                                               
Section  4 of  the  bill, minors  who acquire  fake  IDs will  be                                                               
exposed to  felony prosecution because they  have used fraudulent                                                               
means to obtain an ID.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:26:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL remarked  that Ms.  Wilson raised  a good                                                               
point.    He mentioned  that  sometimes  in domestic  situations,                                                               
people  might  be  fighting  over  a  checkbook,  and  questioned                                                               
whether a check would be considered an identification document.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILSON offered  her belief that a check  is an identification                                                               
document.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   COGHILL  posited,   then,  that   an  unintended                                                               
consequence  in domestic  dispute situations  involving arguments                                                               
over a  checkbook could be that  one of the parties  gets charged                                                               
with a  felony.  He  suggested that  the committee might  want to                                                               
eliminate that potential.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RANDY   RUARO,   Assistant   Attorney  General,   Legislation   &                                                               
Regulations Section,  Office of the Attorney  General, Department                                                               
of  Law (DOL),  pointed out,  however, that  in domestic  dispute                                                               
situations  involving joint  bank accounts,  both parties  have a                                                               
right to  have the checks.   Additionally, if a  domestic dispute                                                               
didn't involve  a joint bank  account, before one of  the parties                                                               
can be  charged with identification theft,  local law enforcement                                                               
would have  to agree to investigate  and to make the  arrest.  At                                                               
that point,  the prosecutor could exercise  his/her discretion to                                                               
charge  the  person  at  the  felony level  or  at  some  "lesser                                                               
included"  level.   He acknowledged  that Representative  Coghill                                                               
has  a   valid  concern,  but  surmised   that  the  prosecutor's                                                               
discretion would  provide a filter  before a party in  a domestic                                                               
dispute situation  actually gets charged  with a felony;  also, a                                                               
jury would  have to convict  at the  felony level, and  the judge                                                               
would  still  retain the  discretion  to  fashion an  appropriate                                                               
sentence.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:29:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA said  he didn't  think that  the legislature                                                               
should  pass  laws and  at  the  same  time  be hoping  that  the                                                               
prosecution won't  enforce those laws.   He  also said he  is not                                                               
sure that if the law  specifies that certain behavior constitutes                                                               
a  felony, that  prosecutors have  the discretion  to charge  the                                                               
person with a misdemeanor.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO offered his understanding  that other statutes could be                                                               
used when  the prosecutor doesn't  want to charge someone  with a                                                               
felony; for  example, a  person could be  charged with  "a simple                                                               
theft" or with some other  type of lesser offense.  Acknowledging                                                               
Representative Gara's  concern, he suggested that  John Skidmore,                                                               
Department of Law (DOL), could better address this issue.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  offered his understanding that  when "a plea                                                               
deal" is proposed  to the judge, he/she has  to determine whether                                                               
the deal makes sense  in light of the known facts,  and so if the                                                               
law specifies  that a situation  involving a check,  for example,                                                               
constitutes a  felony, then  it would  be hard  for the  judge to                                                               
ignore the fact that the situation  did involve a check and allow                                                               
a person to be charged differently.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:32:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANNE  CARPENETI,  Assistant   Attorney  General,  Legal  Services                                                               
Section-Juneau,  Criminal  Division,  Department  of  Law  (DOL),                                                               
mentioned that  when she  was a  prosecutor, there  were domestic                                                               
dispute cases wherein people wanted  "the prosecution to deal, in                                                               
a  criminal  manner,  with  issues   that  were  really  domestic                                                               
issues,"  and   prosecutors  did   have  the  authority   not  to                                                               
prosecute,  and so  did exercise  that authority  in such  cases.                                                               
She also offered her belief that  a check would not be considered                                                               
an identification  document under the  aforementioned definition;                                                               
although a check has commercial value,  it is not a document that                                                               
one can use to establish identification.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  noted that Section  3 refers to an  access device,                                                               
which is defined in AS 11.81.900(b)(1) as:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     "access  device"  means  a card,  credit  card,  plate,                                                                    
     code,  account  number,  algorithm,  or  identification                                                                    
     number, including a  social security number, electronic                                                                    
     serial number,  or password, that  is capable  of being                                                                    
     used,  alone  or  in conjunction  with  another  access                                                                    
     device or  identification document, to  obtain property                                                                    
     or  services,  or  that  can  be  used  to  initiate  a                                                                    
     transfer of property                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE noted that Section  4 refers to both access devices                                                               
and identification  documents, and read from  AS 11.81.900(B)(30)                                                               
[text  provided  previously]   which  defines  an  identification                                                               
document.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:34:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  said  he  still  has  a  concern  that  the                                                               
prosecution won't  be able to  charge situations  involving fraud                                                               
by credit card,  for example, differently than  is being proposed                                                               
in the bill.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI  pointed out, however,  that "most of  these" cases                                                               
are "plead out,"  and that the DOL has not,  to date, experienced                                                               
any  problems  negotiating pleas  on  property  crimes of  "this"                                                               
nature.   She said that because  there are so many  creative ways                                                               
for the judge  and prosecutor to reach a just  result, she is not                                                               
worried about  problems arising.   She,  too, suggested  that Mr.                                                               
Skidmore could better address this issue.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  asked how would one  go about determining                                                               
whether someone has obtained an  access device; he indicated that                                                               
he wants to know how "obtaining" becomes a felony.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI  offered a personal  example wherein her  purse was                                                               
stolen, calling  such [trespassory] taking, and  also referred to                                                               
an  example  wherein  the  perpetrator  gets  someone's  personal                                                               
information by going through his/her garbage.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL said  that although  he understands  [how                                                               
the law  would apply in  cases involving] "regular  thievery," he                                                               
is  not  sure  he  understands  [how  it  would  apply  in  cases                                                               
involving]  what he  called "high-tech  thievery,"  such as  when                                                               
people are talked into  willingly providing personal information.                                                               
Could  there be  some argument  that such  information, if  given                                                               
willingly, wasn't obtained through deception?                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI  said it  would depend on  what the  people seeking                                                               
the   information  told   the  person   they  were   getting  the                                                               
information  from, and  again suggested  that Mr.  Skidmore could                                                               
better address this issue.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:39:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE, using  hypothetical  examples, recapped  members'                                                               
concerns for Mr. Skidmore.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:40:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  B. SKIDMORE,  Assistant District  Attorney, Third  Judicial                                                               
District (Anchorage),  Department of Law (DOL),  after mentioning                                                               
that  his  duties include  supervising  the  "property unit"  and                                                               
relaying that  his past experience  includes prosecuting  for the                                                               
DOL in other areas of the state,  he said that the easiest way to                                                               
resolve  a case  at a  lower  level -  to  reduce a  felony to  a                                                               
misdemeanor -  is to charge  someone for an attempted  crime; for                                                               
purposes  of HB  131, doing  so  would allow  the prosecution  to                                                               
reduce  the charge  to a  class A  misdemeanor.   There are  also                                                               
varying levels  of theft,  he noted,  and so it  would be  easy -                                                               
even  in cases  involving amounts  over $500  - to  simply charge                                                               
someone  with theft  in the  third degree  or with  theft in  the                                                               
fourth  degree, instead  of with  theft in  the second  degree as                                                               
proposed in the  bill; he noted that every day  he resolves cases                                                               
involving theft  of amounts over  $500 as misdemeanors.   Such is                                                               
the real world discretion that prosecutors have.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. SKIDMORE  noted, with  regard to the  issue of  prosecuting a                                                               
family member  for taking a check,  that a check is  not included                                                               
in the  statutory definition of  an identification  document, and                                                               
said that he cannot imagine a  situation in which one would use a                                                               
check  as  a  form  of  identification.    Instead,  a  check  is                                                               
statutorily  defined  as  an   access  device;  additionally,  if                                                               
someone improperly  uses a  check, the  bill won't  apply because                                                               
such situations are  already addressed by the  laws pertaining to                                                               
forgery.   He  pointed  out that  children  steal their  parents'                                                               
checks all the time, and  the prosecution has the discretion, and                                                               
often  uses  it,  to  determine  whether  it  is  appropriate  to                                                               
prosecute someone in  such cases under the  existing [forgery and                                                               
theft] statutes.  He offered  his understanding that in order for                                                               
proposed  AS  11.46.290(b) to  apply,  the  person obtaining  the                                                               
access  device or  identification document  must do  so with  the                                                               
intent to  defraud, and so  elements other than merely  taking an                                                               
access  device  or identification  document  must  be taken  into                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SKIDMORE said  he  would  echo prior  testimony  by the  DOL                                                               
representative regarding  discretion, which  he opined,  is built                                                               
into the criminal justice system  in multiple layers.  There must                                                               
first be enough  evidence for the police to want  to move forward                                                               
with  a  case  and  refer  it to  the  prosecutor's  office;  the                                                               
prosecutor  then uses  discretion  in determining  whether it  is                                                               
appropriate to  charge a  particular case and  thus use  up state                                                               
resources  in seeking  a criminal  sanction against  someone; and                                                               
the checks  and balances on  the police and prosecutor  come from                                                               
juries and  judges.  In  the occasional instances  where familial                                                               
context  cases are  prosecuted, it  is because  they are  just as                                                               
serious as  all other theft  cases or because the  parents really                                                               
think there is a need for  a child to be prosecuted; for example,                                                               
if the  child has a drug  addiction and can't be  caught with the                                                               
drugs but  can be charged  with another felony offense,  then the                                                               
child could be  sentenced to probation only,  with mandatory drug                                                               
treatment as a condition of probation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:46:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL indicated  that  Mr. Skidmore's  comments                                                               
alleviate his  concerns, and  said he agrees  with the  intent of                                                               
bill.  However, the bill proposes to  make it a class C felony if                                                               
the value  obtained from the use  of the access device  is $50 or                                                               
more.   This  would seem  to make  it easier  to become  a felon,                                                               
which has many  repercussions.  He asked whether  using an access                                                               
device for several  purchases under $50 would  result in separate                                                               
criminal charges  or whether the purchases  combined would result                                                               
in a single criminal charge.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SKIDMORE  noted  that existing  AS  11.46.980(c)  says,  "In                                                               
determining the  degree or classification  of a crime  under this                                                               
chapter, amounts  involved in criminal  acts committed  under one                                                               
course  of  conduct, whether  from  the  same person  or  several                                                               
persons, shall  be aggregated."   He opined that this  means that                                                               
it would have to be shown that  the multiple acts were all in one                                                               
course of conduct  as opposed to several courses of  conduct.  He                                                               
characterized  this as  a fact-driven  question,  adding, "We  do                                                               
often aggregate  those types of cases,  but you have to  have the                                                               
appropriate  facts  that [show]  it  was  all  in one  course  of                                                               
conduct."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL opined  that $50 seems too  low, and asked                                                               
why they  should lower the  threshold for this  particular felony                                                               
crime to that amount.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SKIDMORE  opined that identity  theft is much  more insidious                                                               
than  "a straight"  theft.    For example,  with  a theft  occurs                                                               
wherein  a person  steals  an item  or items  from  a store,  the                                                               
offense ends when  the perpetrator is caught - there  are no more                                                               
repercussions to the  victim from that theft.   In contrast, when                                                               
an identity  theft occurs,  the consequences  for the  victim are                                                               
ongoing.   He  relayed that  he'd recently  heard someone  on the                                                               
radio  say that  if one  becomes  the victim  of identity  theft,                                                               
he/she can be  told:  "Congratulations, you've just  gotten a new                                                               
part time job;  you will now spend countless hours  trying to fix                                                               
your  credit history  and  protect yourself,"    For some  folks,                                                               
dealing with creditors  and other people results  in a tremendous                                                               
amount of  trauma.  He  relayed an  example from three  years ago                                                               
wherein a  woman living in Los  Vegas had her identity  stolen by                                                               
people who  came to Alaska  and started buying things;  the woman                                                               
lost promotion  opportunities and ultimately her  job because she                                                               
missed days  at work trying to  deal with her creditors,  and had                                                               
to  undergo   psychological  counseling.     And   although  such                                                               
repercussions may  not occur  when someone  is only  defrauded of                                                               
$50-$75,  the   insidious  nature  of  identity   theft  warrants                                                               
lowering the threshold to $50, he opined.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said that a  $50 threshold for a felony is                                                               
"pretty low for me."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE, after  ascertaining that  no one  else wished  to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on HB 131.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:52:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM moved to report  HB 131 out of committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  fiscal                                                               
notes.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA objected  for the purpose of  discussion.  He                                                               
said that he  too is struggling with the  proposed $50 threshold,                                                               
and noted  that although the  hope is that the  increased penalty                                                               
will  act as  a deterrent,  those that  commit crimes  don't read                                                               
statutes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE asked  whether  he had  a  different threshold  in                                                               
mind.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA indicated that he did not, at this time.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  mentioned  that  the bill  has  a  House  Finance                                                               
Committee referral.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  asked whether  there are any  other felonies                                                               
with a $50 threshold.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  said she  did  not  think  that there  were,  and                                                               
surmised  that Mr.  Skidmore's testimony  indicated  that one  is                                                               
being proposed  in the  bill because of  the insidious  nature of                                                               
identity theft.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  mentioned that  he is  working on  a bill                                                               
that will be addressing all felonies.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:55:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT said  he shares  some of  the same  concerns                                                               
that Representatives Gara and Coghill  have expressed.  Referring                                                               
to the argument  that the crime the bill  addresses is insidious,                                                               
he  noted that  the  same  argument could  be  made  even if  the                                                               
threshold were being lowered to  $10, but people would still face                                                               
the same  consequences associated  with a felony  that has  a $50                                                               
threshold.    He  indicated  that  he  would  go  along  with  an                                                               
amendment to raise the proposed threshold above $50.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  noted that the  current threshold for  [the felony                                                               
level crime of fraudulent use of access device] is $500.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL said  that  the  "aggregated amount"  was                                                               
what he was looking for.   He offered his understanding that most                                                               
fraudulent uses  of access devices probably  involve amounts much                                                               
more significant than $50.  He  mentioned that he himself has had                                                               
to deal with  this issue and, thus, he is  sympathetic.  However,                                                               
he relayed, he  is also very cautious about  creating a situation                                                               
whereby somebody  becomes a felon  over a $75 charge,  since that                                                               
will result in repercussions for  that person.  He mentioned that                                                               
he  is getting  some comfort  from the  fact that  fraudulent use                                                               
must be proven before a person  can be convicted of a felony, but                                                               
that's the only comfort he is getting.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE relayed  to Mr. Mulligan that members  appear to be                                                               
struggling with the proposed threshold amount.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN  noted that even  though a person stealing  a credit                                                               
card  might only  charge $50  worth of  merchandise or  services,                                                               
there is the potential for that  person to charge the maximum the                                                               
credit card  will allow.   With regard  to the issue  of altering                                                               
the proposed threshold,  he surmised that the  sponsor would like                                                               
some  time to  research  the issue  to  determine an  appropriate                                                               
amount.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM withdrew her motion to move bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:01:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM said  she  shares  the concerns  raised                                                               
regarding  the  proposed threshold.    She  noted, however,  that                                                               
there  are  consequences  to  having  one's  access  devices  and                                                               
identity documents stolen, some of  which could include not being                                                               
able to close  on a house or  to lose a job.   She mentioned that                                                               
she  has had  someone else's  credit information  show up  on her                                                               
credit report,  and that it  took her two  years to clear  up the                                                               
situation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   McGUIRE  relayed   her   personal  experience   regarding                                                               
someone's fraudulent use  of her debit card.   She indicated that                                                               
although there is a policy call  to make on this issue, there are                                                               
concerns with  the bill  that still  need to  be addressed.   She                                                               
suggested  that perhaps  the sponsor  could  research what  other                                                               
states do,  and perhaps consider proposing  a different threshold                                                               
amount.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  surmised that the insidiousness  of stealing                                                               
someone's access  device stems from  the potential to  keep using                                                               
it,  so perhaps  members'  concerns regarding  the $50  threshold                                                               
could be addressed via aggregating the amounts of repeat usage.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG  relayed   his  personal   experiences                                                               
regarding the  fraudulent use  of his credit  card by  an unknown                                                               
person and  the attempted misuse of  his credit card by  a family                                                               
member.   He  said he  is wondering  what else  is being  done to                                                               
protect the consumer and address  identity theft more thoroughly.                                                               
He asked where the crime is  committed if a citizen of Alaska has                                                               
his/her  credit   card  used   fraudulently  in   California;  he                                                               
indicated  his  assumption that  such  a  crime would  have  been                                                               
considered as having been committed in California.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
[Following was a brief discussion about which other bills,                                                                      
currently and in the past, have pertained to credit card                                                                        
companies and to fraud.]                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[HB 131 was held over.]                                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects