Legislature(1997 - 1998)

03/19/1998 03:05 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
SSHB 366 - NO CINA BASED SOLELY ON POVERTY                                     
                                                                               
Number 2003                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE announed the next item on the agenda was SSHB 366,              
"An Act relating to child-in-need-of-aid proceedings," sponsored by            
Representative Dyson.                                                          
                                                                               
Number 2020                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he believes the legislature will pass                
legislation which will equip the various agencies of the state to              
take protective custody of children when necessary.  He indicated              
they will slightly alter their emphasis and make the protection of             
children the highest priority.  Representative Dyson said he does              
not believe there are any present examples of a need for the bill              
he has brought before the committee.  It makes it very clear that              
the status of not having a home or being the level of income that              
the government would call below the poverty level, or having an                
unusual lifestyle is not negligence and does not give the state a              
basis on which to assume custody.  Representative Dyson reiterated             
he does not know of cases where that has been abused, but there may            
be some.  He said he has been working with the Administration on               
this legislation and he believes they do not have a problem with               
what they have written.                                                        
                                                                               
Number 2144                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to line 6 of the bill stating he has a                 
concern with the wording "generally accepted lifestyles standard."             
He stated the wording has too broad of a loophole, for example, if             
someone wants to live in the back of their car.                                
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON responded that living in the back of a car                
(indisc.).  It does not mean a child is being abused or neglected              
necessarily.                                                                   
                                                                               
Number 2211                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER shared the same concern about the wording on             
line 6, "lives a lifestyle that is different from the generally                
accepted lifestyle."  He commented he thought living in the back of            
a car is covered by "lacks adequate housing" on line 5 of the bill.            
He stated he doesn't know what a generally accepted lifestyle is,              
but if you can live any lifestyle other than what is accepted, that            
may be precisely what it is that they should be taken away from                
their parents for.  Representative Porter asked for an example of              
why we should have that language.                                              
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he knows of a case where a parent was                
turned in by her sister for child abuse because she was a                      
vegetarian which triggered a DFYS investigation which terrified a              
young mother and husband.  He said the parents had a meeting with              
DFYS and the investigators of the division thought the children                
were healthy and doing very well.  "And just because they ...                  
                                                                               
TAPE 98-27, SIDE A                                                             
Number 0001                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON continued "...child in need of aid if in fact             
they are not getting the food, shelter, protection and the freedom             
from physical, sexual, and mental injury.  There is nothing in the             
bill that negates those things."                                               
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated if DFYS investigated a complaint                  
solely on the basis of the person being a vegetarian, then that                
needs to be fixed.  He assumes there were probably other                       
allegations which caused DFYS to investigate which this legislation            
would not change.                                                              
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE remarked the committee would have a legal opinion               
shortly.                                                                       
                                                                               
Number 0091                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he hopes the person that made the                    
complaint would have some charges brought against them.  He then               
gave an example of an Alaskan lifestyle and asked what if a family             
who lives in an urban area runs out of food and decides to rough it            
out in the woods and not seek assistance in a nearby community,                
putting their child in jeopardy of malnutrition.  Would this                   
legislation cover those type of scenarios?                                     
                                                                               
Number 0173                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON responded that if the child is being                      
malnourished or does not have adequate shelter, the state has the              
right to intervene.  This legislation, in no way, does that.  But,             
indeed, the family living on the Yukon River may not meet the                  
federal poverty standards.                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE remarked he wants it to be very clear on the              
record regarding that.                                                         
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE called on Susan Wibker to testify.                              
                                                                               
Number 0244                                                                    
                                                                               
SUSAN WIBKER, Assistant Attorney General, Civil Division,                      
Department of Law, came before the committee to testify.  She                  
advised the committee she was also testifying on behalf of the                 
Department of Health and Social Services.  She said both                       
departments support Representative Dyson's amendment.  She stated              
as she read the bill, she thought of all the families on the Homer             
Spit in the summer with healthy, well cared for, happy, loved                  
children in tents.  And there is absolutely no reason for the state            
to interfere unless there is a reason to be concerned about the                
health and safety of the children.  She pointed out that the                   
department does receive telephone calls regarding situations                   
Representative Dyson described, which are well-intentioned calls,              
and investigators find there is no reason to get involved other                
than somebody does not agree with somebody else's lifestyle.  Ms.              
Wibker stated this legislation makes it very clear to the worker               
and the courts that it has to be the health and safety of the child            
that is at risk, or the state shouldn't be involved.  She said if              
there is better language for tightening up whatever we're going to             
call community norm, fine, but it is a good thing to have.                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE called on the next witness to testify via                       
teleconference.                                                                
                                                                               
Number 0339                                                                    
                                                                               
DIANA BUFFINGTON, Chairman, Alaska Task Force on Family Law Reform;            
and President and State Coordinator for the Children's Right                   
Council of Alaska, testified in support of HB 366 via                          
teleconference from Kodiak.  She stated, "I support this bill                  
simply because we should not face the poverty level, or lacks                  
adequate housing, or lives a different lifestyle that is not                   
acceptable to other people."  She then referred to a report by the             
U.S. National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect stating child                  
advocates insist there are 2.7 million youngsters a year that are              
suffering grievance abuse, but statistics reflect total reports of             
suspected mistreatment, not substantiated individual cases.  Ms.               
Buffington stated she feels this bill, added to the statutes, would            
give DFYS some guidelines on what constitutes a child in need.  She            
suggested investigating what a loving and nurturing environment is             
and said DFYS needs to look at the environment, not just the                   
housing facilities and the availability of money.                              
                                                                               
Number 0574                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE informed the committee if HB 366 was being referred             
to the Judiciary Committee where the committee would be able to                
review it again, they would be able to discuss lifestyle at that               
meeting and move the bill today.  However, since there are                     
questions to be answered, he suggested holding the bill for further            
consideration.                                                                 
                                                                               
Number 0597                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if there's a loophole that the defense             
attorney could find to mess up the bill.  He pointed out that the              
sponsor substitute states a child in need cannot be based solely on            
a person's lifestyle.  He referred to lines 6-7 of the sponsor                 
substitute and said he would be more comfortable with the wording              
"lives an otherwise harmless lifestyle that is different from the              
generally accepted lifestyle standard of the community" or                     
something like that.                                                           
                                                                               
Number 0645                                                                    
                                                                               
MS. WIBKER referred the committee to lines 7-9 of SSHB 366 and                 
stated she feels the last sentence was designed to address that                
issue which reads, "However this subsection may not be construed to            
prevent a court from finding that a child is in need of aid if the             
child has been subjected to conduct or conditions described in (a)             
of this section."  She said subsection (a) lists all the grounds               
for jurisdiction.  Therefore, if a child comes within the                      
jurisdiction of the court under some other ground, they are still              
a child in need of aid.                                                        
                                                                               
Number 0704                                                                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated he has concerns with the wording "alternate              
lifestyle."  He noted in other parts of the legislature,                       
legislation is working its way through which would prevent a                   
homosexual marriage which connotates adopting or caring for                    
children.  He asked if this legislation would be an affirmative                
offense that would allow a homosexual couple to adopt because you              
cannot say that a child is in need of aid because they are choosing            
an alternative lifestyle.                                                      
                                                                               
MS. WIBKER said she didn't think this legislation would have                   
anything to do with whether a homosexual couple could adopt; it is             
strictly jurisdiction to be found a child in need of aid.                      
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if a single parent was openly homosexual, and             
if this bill passed, someone could not file a complaint with DFYS              
saying this is a child in need of aid because the parent is very               
overt in their homosexual behavior.                                            
                                                                               
MS. WIBKER stated the way the law is written, unless that child                
falls under the jurisdiction for abuse or neglect, the state cannot            
do anything.                                                                   
                                                                               
Number 0800                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said part of what he is doing here is                     
defensive, in a sense.  He feels this legislation is a small step              
to say no.  He said there is a very narrow area that they want the             
state to take jurisdiction.  He pointed out that the department has            
struggled to find, train, and keep good folks.  Once in a while if             
they get someone who doesn't have good judgment or is new to the               
state and not familiar with urban Alaskan lifestyle, this bill adds            
some protection to draconian actions by new and inexperienced                  
staff.                                                                         
                                                                               
Number 0877                                                                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move SSHB 366 out of                     
committee.  There being no objection, SSHB 366 was moved out of the            
House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee.                
                                                                               

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