Legislature(1997 - 1998)

03/25/1997 03:13 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
 HB 170 - PHYS/MENTALLY CHALLENGED/ SERVICE ANIMALS                          
                                                                               
 Number 0100                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 170,              
 "An Act relating to interference with the rights of physically and            
 mentally challenged persons; and relating to service animals during           
 their training period."                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0153                                                                   
                                                                               
 TRACY ASHE, Legislative Intern to Representative Brice, said HB 170           
 is an act relating to interference of the rights of physically and            
 mentally challenged persons in regards to training service animals.           
 Although the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) allows service             
 animals into public establishments, too often young service animals           
 are turned away from these establishments due to the arbitrary                
 nature of the existing law.  The bill extends this law to include             
 young animals in training.  Service animals perform functions and             
 tasks that people with a disability cannot perform for themselves.            
 These young animals need the same exposure as trained service                 
 animals if they are expected to perform these tasks.                          
                                                                               
 Number 0242                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER clarified that these dogs in training             
 would be with trainers in these public places.                                
                                                                               
 Number 0260                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE said normally the dogs are accompanied by 4-H children,              
 kids or adults.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0269                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to a committee substitute.                            
                                                                               
 Number 0277                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to adopt the committee                    
 substitute.  Hearing no objections CSHB 170(HES) was before the               
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0310                                                                   
                                                                               
 RAE A. BAGGEN testified next via teleconference from Sitka.  She              
 expressed concerns as she was not an agency person, but an                    
 individual training her own service dog and making sure her dog               
 would be certified.  Some of her questions were answered by Patti             
 Baumgartner this afternoon.  She wanted to make sure the committee            
 knew that sometimes people with disabilities train their own                  
 service animals.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0365                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE presented a scenario where someone went into a                 
 restaurant with a pit bull and said the dog was a service animal in           
 training.  He asked if there were any side-boards on this bill.               
                                                                               
 Number 0387                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE explained that normally the dogs used are labrador, golden           
 retrievers and German shepards.  Normally these animals will have             
 a halter on them with a sweater-type garment, identifying them as             
 a service animal in training.  She was not familiar with people who           
 were training their own dog or what breed of dog they had.                    
                                                                               
 Number 0445                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were any parameters.  He asked if               
 someone could say that they were training a service animal and fall           
 under the provisions of this bill or would they have to contact               
 someone first.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 0468                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE agreed to check on this.  She referred to the bill,                  
 "`authorized' means employed by, or serving as a volunteer with, a            
 school, agency, or other facility that trains service animals;"               
 She thought that perhaps a person training their own service animal           
 would fall under other facility.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0497                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said Ms. Baggen brought up an interesting question.            
 Number 0514                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY had difficulty with the concept of giving             
 service dogs in training the same status as trained dogs.  He                 
 especially questioned this fact when you are talking about a common           
 carrier.  If an animal is trained, they have gone past a certain              
 standard, but if they're in training then they haven't reached that           
 standard.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE answered that the committee substitute work draft                    
 authorized the pre-training or training period for the puppies.               
 This allows them to be out in the public in order to be trained to            
 be a certified trained animal for a blind, deaf, hard of hearing or           
 a mentally challenged person.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0578                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that, in order to achieve the status as              
 trained, the dogs need some exposure to similar situations.                   
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE said this is the most valuable part of the training                  
 because this will either make or break the puppy.  If the puppy               
 goes through this part of the training with flying colors or there            
 are fixable problems, the puppy will go to a school for the blind             
 or a deaf school in order to be certified with the person that has            
 the disability.  The person and the puppy graduate from this school           
 after learning the commands and the training.  If the puppy fails,            
 the animal is given back or absorbed into a family as a pet.                  
                                                                               
 Number 0651                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY clarified that this bill says we have a dog in           
 training and we are expecting the public to provide the training              
 facility.  We're expecting the commercial interests involved; the             
 stores, the common carriers, to provide free access to this animal.           
 The bill does say that the owner is responsible for any damage that           
 the dog does, but that only lasts until their insurance runs out              
 and then those costs go to the proprietor.  He has always                     
 understood that these animals were trained to a very high degree of           
 competence before they were exposed to public areas.  He said he              
 shouldn't say public because the dogs couldn't tell the difference            
 between training and the real world.  He found it disconcerting               
 that we're turning the public places into training grounds for                
 dogs.  Having spent a lot of years training dogs, a lot of things             
 go wrong during training.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0745                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE said the program that Alaska uses, the 4-H program, has              
 their own insurance.  The insurance is taken out when these dogs go           
 home with families, who will provide additional training.  She did            
 not know the rates, but the program buys liability insurance to               
 cover them if anything should happen.  A lot of these puppies have            
 muzzles on them.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0777                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER did not think this bill would apply to owners           
 training their own dogs.  He felt the only people who could bring             
 service animals in training to public places would be people                  
 authorized in the bill.  Authorized means employed by, serving as             
 a volunteer with a school, agency or other facility that trains               
 service animals.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0812                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if "mentally challenged" was defined               
 somewhere in statute.  He said "disabled persons" was used before.            
                                                                               
 Number 832                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE explained that not all disabilities are visible.  There              
 are dogs that are working with people in wheelchairs.  These people           
 are then able to live on their own or with a roommate.                        
                                                                               
 Number 850                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he was reasonably sure that there was a             
 definition of "disabled" in statute.  He asked if there a                     
 definition for "physically or mentally challenged" in statute.                
                                                                               
 Number 0864                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ASHE answered that she would find out.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0875                                                                   
                                                                               
 VELMA PAZAR was next to testify via teleconference from Sitka.  She           
 declined to testify at this time.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 0887                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROGER HANSEN testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He            
 said he has been training dogs for the last 28 years and hasn't had           
 any problems, except in accessing some of the state buildings.                
 Most places in Fairbanks seem to be receptive to the training as              
 opposed to many of the problems he encountered down in southcentral           
 Alaska, particularly on the Kenai Peninsula.  They worked with the            
 Fairbanks courthouse in order for them to be let into the building.           
 He has trained about 25 to 30 of these dogs for the blind as well             
 as other service animals.                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. HANSEN explained that he only had two problems in public which            
 were slightly embarrassing, but there was no damage done.  These              
 animals can't be trained to work in public unless they are in                 
 public.  You can't expect the dogs to be brought into the state               
 fair, unless they have done something similar to it.  He said the             
 Palmer state fair and the ferry are the two worst places with which           
 he has dealt.  The ferry threatened to remove them at the next port           
 if they spent a little bit of extra of time feeding and caring for            
 the animals.  These animals cost about $50,000 apiece, which is               
 the value of the animal as an untrained puppy.  There is another              
 $15,000 to $20,000 put into them in training after they leave the             
 breeder.  These are valuable animals and to be left downstairs in             
 the car deck is a questionable practice.                                      
                                                                               
 MR. HANSEN said they continue to have problems training in the                
 state buildings, particularly in Anchorage and a few times in                 
 Juneau.  He and his wife have been denied lodging when they have              
 been training the dogs.  He has had the biggest problems with                 
 lodging when he has been in Alaska.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1058                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to comments about problems in southcentral            
 Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1070                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HANSEN discussed shopping trips with the dogs.  He clarified              
 that the dogs wear the harness and sweater and are not taken out in           
 public until they are ready to go, which is anywhere from about               
 four to six months.  The dogs are capable of doing just about                 
 anything out in public by that age.                                           
                                                                               
 MR. HANSEN said he has had a lot of problems with restaurants.  He            
 has found some that would allow them in and he has continued to go            
 to them.  Most major stores do not have a problem with allowing               
 these service dogs in training as it is written into their                    
 corporate policy.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1132                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if they were rejected because they had            
 an abundance of animals or if the animals were being trained one at           
 a time.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1147                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that there is a definition in CSHB
 170(HES) for certified service animal.  He referred to Section 2,             
 and said those animals are not considered certified service                   
 animals, but animals in training.  He appreciated the problems and            
 stated that he had been a professional dog trainer.  He felt an               
 onerous burden was being put on the operators of facilities.  There           
 haven't been any assurances given to the degree of training this              
 animal has and he was not quite sure that the entire public domain            
 should be opened up to dog training.  He asked if we were talking             
 about making people let these dogs go in the passenger compartments           
 of airplanes.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1209                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HANSEN answered that he has been on airplanes with these dogs             
 many times, particularly Alaska Airlines.  The only stipulation, a            
 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulation, is that they have           
 to sit in a bulkhead seat.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1229                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commended him on the working relationship he             
 has developed with Alaska Airlines.  He was not sure that CSHB
 170(HES) could replace good working relationships with statute.               
                                                                               
 Number 1245                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. HANSEN said it takes a little bit of time, but they can usually           
 explain to a couple of supervisors and then they allow the dogs on            
 flights.  Alaska Airlines has been exceptional, they send eight               
 dogs back and forth, from Alaska to the contiguous United States              
 without a charge.  These dogs have accompanied him in small float             
 planes all the way to 747s and he has never had a problem.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1275                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE verified that an untrained puppy, bred from the                
 service dog field, is worth $50,000.                                          
                                                                               
 MR. HANSEN said, in the 1940s, a high quality dog was about the               
 price of a Cadillac and it is still just about that today.  There             
 are no finer dogs than these.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1301                                                                   
                                                                               
 SUZANNE PRICE testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks.               
 Accompanying her was Tacona, a service animal in training.  Tacona            
 is one-year-old and has traveled to Los Angeles and Palm Springs.             
 There really isn't any way to train a dog in the real world without           
 being in the real world with them.  A dog in a kennel will not                
 learn how to deal with a bus station, how to get on a bus crowded             
 with people.  You can't train a dog how to go to the fair or the              
 circus without taking him there.  Some barriers have been overcome            
 in Alaska.  Normally there aren't any problems in the Lower 48.               
                                                                               
 MS. PRICE said the biggest problems have been with state types of             
 facilities; the ferries, the Palmer state fair.  The guide dogs for           
 the blind that they raise are trained, one at a time.  Five dogs              
 that were being brought up on the ferry were for three other puppy            
 raisers and two adult dogs accompanied them.  They don't take the             
 dogs out in public until they have their basic discipline and                 
 obedience.  The animals are not taken into public places until they           
 are trained to                                                                
 behave themselves.  The training portion of public places has to do           
 with what the dog needs which is the sights, the sounds, the                  
 smells.  If you wait until a dog is fully mature to do that, the              
 dog will never be accustomed to those things.  You need to do those           
 things when the dogs are young.                                               
                                                                               
 MS. PRICE stated that customers have never complained and most                
 private industries don't have as much of a problem as the state               
 facilities do.  Customers are always very glad to see the dogs.               
 There are probably ten or twelve dogs being raised for guide dogs             
 in the state.  Dogs learn valuable things.  In the malls children             
 will come up to the dogs and stomp on them, kick them.  This                  
 happens quite frequently.  The dogs have no reaction to this, they            
 are trained and bred to be docile and yet energetic.  Insurance is            
 carried through the 4-H office.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1497                                                                   
                                                                               
 LINDA ATHONS, Coordinator, Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program,                   
 testified next via teleconference from Kenai.  Her program is                 
 administered by Alaska Cooperative Extension.  She commented that             
 like not everyone can be a foster parent, not everyone can be a               
 guide dog raiser.  They carefully screen applicants.  Puppies are             
 placed in homes where people are caring, responsible and committed            
 to the success of the puppy.  There are ten to twelve puppies in              
 the state being trained at one time; usually in Fairbanks,                    
 Anchorage, Mat-Su area, the Kenai Peninsula and Juneau.  The                  
 procedure used to obtain access to an establishment is to telephone           
 ahead, explain the guide dog puppy program and get permission to              
 enter the business.  This basic component of training is essential            
 to the puppies because of the things Ms. Price mentioned.  When the           
 puppies are out in public, they wear a jacket which identifies them           
 as a dog in training.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1578                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ATHONS is a guide dog trainer and mentioned that Dixie was with           
 her and will be returning to the school in a few weeks.  She                  
 thanked the local businesses in the Kenai and said that with their            
 help she would be returning a well mannered and competent dog.                
 Dixie is ready for her specialized training.  She addressed                   
 problems with traveling throughout the state.  She has been denied            
 lodging in Anchorage, dining in Fairbanks and entry into the state            
 fair at Palmer.  She was granted lodging in Fairbanks but was asked           
 to pay a $70 pet cleanup fee, which was not considered a deposit in           
 order to stay there.  Other problems have occurred when a change in           
 business occurs.  The new employee does not know about the rapport            
 that has been built.                                                          
 Number 1651                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE commented that a majority of times the trainer is              
 able to take a service animal in training to public places and                
 asked if we were looking at exception to this in CSHB 170(HES).               
                                                                               
 Number 1659                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ATHONS said it is those times when it is not convenient to call           
 ahead, such as times when you're traveling or the management of the           
 business has changed.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1681                                                                   
                                                                               
 RUBY SCHMIDTBAUER, Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program, testified next            
 via teleconference from Kenai.  She was accompanied by Yukon who              
 has traveled with her to Bethel and down in the Lower 48.  These              
 dogs are very well behaved, they need to be in the public.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1745                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated that this is the first time CSHB 170(HES) has           
 been heard and no action would be taken on it today.  The bill                
 would be heard next Tuesday.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1753                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked if this bill had any enemies.                      
                                                                               
 Number 1774                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER mentioned that in his role of training police           
 dogs he never had any problems going into public places, probably             
 because as officers they were in uniform and carrying guns.                   

Document Name Date/Time Subjects