Legislature(1997 - 1998)

03/20/1997 03:45 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
 HB 146 - PUPIL COMPETENCY TESTING                                             
                                                                               
 Number 0034                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the first item on the agenda as HB 146,              
 "An Act relating to competency testing requirements for secondary             
 students; and providing for an effective date."  He referred to a             
 proposed committee substitute reflecting testimony given last week            
 by Dr. Nancy Buell.  The committee substitute changes some                    
 effective date standards.  The competency test would first be given           
 in the ninth grade and until the student passed the test, it would            
 be given in the tenth, eleventh and twelfth grades.  This would               
 allow time for remediation and a different exposure to the                    
 material.  These changes were suggested by the Department of                  
 Education (DOE) because of possible legal challenges to the                   
 legislation.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0093                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE made a motion to adopt CSHB 146(HES),                
 version O-LSO515\E.  There being no objections, CSHB 146(HES) was             
 before the committee.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0160                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE J. ALLEN KEMPLEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 1            
 to HB 146(HES).                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0165                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected to the motion for purposes of discussion.             
                                                                               
 Number 0170                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said Amendment 1 would begin competency                
 testing at an earlier time in the educational process.  Competency            
 testing would apply to secondary students as well as elementary               
 students.  Children would be tested in the fourth, eighth and                 
 eleventh grades.  The examination used for the eleventh grade could           
 be considered the final competency exam.  The DOE would determine             
 the form and content of the examinations and scores.  A pupil who             
 fails to pass one of these examinations would receive remedial                
 instruction in the areas tested.  This amendment would give                   
 additional opportunity for the educational system to identify                 
 weaknesses in the students at an earlier age and to address those             
 weaknesses with remedial education to affect a positive change.               
                                                                               
 Number 0330                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that there had been discussions on this              
 idea and there was currently nothing preventing the school district           
 from doing this testing.  He referred to the California Achievement           
 Test (CAT) as an example where students are being measured at an              
 early age.  He expressed concern about the size of the fiscal note            
 if we included this language in the bill.  He stated that we would            
 basically pay schools twice to do what they should be doing now.              
 He continued his opposition to Amendment 1.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 0357                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN agreed with the chair, even though there were            
 discussions that the younger students are tested the better.                  
                                                                               
 Number 0386                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE referred to testimony presented by                       
 administrators, teachers, school board associations on this                   
 subject.  He thought Amendment 1 went a long way in addressing the            
 questions raised about the finality of a single exam.  The                    
 amendment recognized the need for remediation in the statute and              
 tracking students throughout the system, to avoid having them                 
 slipping through the system.  He felt the argument that districts             
 could already do this went against the concept of the legislation.            
 If districts could test, then why did the state have to mandate an            
 exit exam.  He concluded that when it comes down to the last                  
 semester of high school, the student should not be put into a                 
 situation of having to pass a single test in order to receive a               
 diploma.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0520                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE clarified that the DOE's concept of this exam would            
 begin testing in the ninth grade.  Students would be tested in the            
 ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth grades.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0540                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if the chair would accept Amendment 1 as           
 a friendly amendment if language was added specifying ninth, tenth            
 and twelfth grades.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0563                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said the elementary school component would have to             
 be deleted from Amendment 1.  It was his intention to allow the DOE           
 to develop the test which would be taken, the first time, in the              
 ninth grade.  Students who tested out in one of the areas wouldn't            
 take another test, those that didn't test out would then receive              
 some remediation and take the exam again in the tenth, the eleventh           
 and twelfth grades.  The students have four attempts to pass the              
 test, it is not a one time only test.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0603                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that unfortunately, the way the bill is             
 written, it is a one time only exam.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0616                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE disagreed because the competency exam, as he viewed            
 it, was this series of four tests.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0630                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE felt this should be clarified within HB
 146(HES).  He suggested that Amendment 1 might not be the answer,             
 but that the intent should be clarified that it is a series of                
 tests given over the high school academic career of the student.              
 The legislature can have a certain level of expectation for the DOE           
 that they will introduce some type of program, but there is nothing           
 that says they need to do so in HB 146(HES).  He felt that if the             
 bill was supposed to address the ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth           
 grades, then it should have specific language.                                
                                                                               
 Number 0694                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern that if the legislature put            
 all of those things into the bill, were they over doctoring                   
 something that legislators don't have expertise in doing.  This               
 legislation establishes that there will be a competency exam given,           
 the school district will determine how to administer the exam and             
 there is this added suggestion that the exam would be administered            
 starting in the ninth grade.  He felt that it was incumbent upon              
 the legislature to see that the DOE would perform these tasks.  If            
 they don't, then you could legislate these specific functions.                
 This was better than to insist that the legislature put their own             
 recommendations in statute form.  He felt the statutes were out of            
 the legislature's area of expertise.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0770                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE agreed that he wanted to leave as much flexibility             
 for the DOE as possible.  He questioned if HB 146(HES) should                 
 include intent language which spoke of a series of tests beginning            
 in the ninth grade.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0781                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE suggested that the reasons why a lot of state            
 departments go off "willy nilly" on certain issues such as resource           
 issues, is that the legislature is not very clear.  He was not sure           
 that he would want to leave a large degree of leverage for the DOE            
 to go off and start the process all over again.  He felt the DOE              
 had good intentions, but he has seen too many times after the                 
 legislators are gone where the DOE will go back, regardless of                
 legislative intent, and implement some other type of program.                 
                                                                               
 Number 0855                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said that testing might have to change                         
 significantly.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 0870                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE explained that the content of the test is not            
 at issue.  A much broader question is the application of the                  
 process by which the test is required.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0890                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to line 6 and suggested, "unless the pupil            
 passes a series of competency examinations."                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE agreed to that language.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0918                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON agreed with Representative Green that the           
 committee began with good intentions, but is starting to micro-               
 manage this bill.  He understood the original goal was to have a              
 way of asserting that Alaska high school graduates meet some                  
 standard of excellence and provide, within the legislation, that              
 some flexibility for students from different social, economic, and            
 language barriers be allowed.  He would not want the legislature to           
 dictate how each school and school district would do it.  He had              
 great confidence in the education profession and it is inevitable,            
 if this legislation passes, that the schools are going to start               
 moving to structure and produce students who can pass the test.               
 The schools will figure out how to do it and figure out that the              
 school and district are going to be rated on the percentage of                
 students who pass.  This rating will be looked at when it comes to            
 budgets.  So schools will begin coaching their students and giving            
 them trial tests in third grade, ninth or eleventh grade.  He did             
 not feel that we had to worry about getting students to pass the              
 test.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1012                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to line 7 and suggested, "plural                      
 examinations" and asked if this would indicate where the                      
 legislature was going.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1027                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY agreed with Representatives Green and                 
 Dyson.  The legislature is setting up a measurement, doing more               
 micro-managing than he would like, but he thought it had been                 
 proven that the legislature needs to do some.  The legislature is             
 giving the school districts flexibility as to how they get there,             
 there are no restrictions on them and he did not think there should           
 be any more than was absolutely necessary.  He felt the legislative           
 mandate should be minimal.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1040                                                                   
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1. Representatives Kemplen            
 and Brice voted yea.  Representatives Green, Vezey, Dyson and Bunde           
 voted nay.  Representative Porter was absent for the vote.                    
 Amendment 1 failed to be adopted.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1083                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to page 1, line 8, and made a suggestion              
 for a conceptual amendment, "examination the Department shall                 
 determine the form, contents of the examination and the grade                 
 levels to be tested".                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1119                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON felt HB 146(HES) was wonderful and he                    
 disagreed with the conceptual amendment.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1135                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 2 to HB
 146(HES).                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1140                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected to the motion for purposes of discussion.             
                                                                               
 Number 1145                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said, during the testimony on this proposed            
 legislation, the issue of standards were repeatedly brought up.  It           
 would be difficult to legally support the competency exam unless              
 there was some sort of standardized measures of performance                   
 statewide.  Otherwise someone moving from one school district to              
 another school district in the state would be at a disadvantage.              
 Amendment 2 seeks to address this concern.  The matrix, presented             
 by DOE and titled, "Possible Implementation Table for Exit                    
 Examination", contains a mandate to disseminate performance                   
 standards in reading, writing and mathematics related to the exit             
 test in 1997 and 1998.  Amendment 2 would put this language into              
 the HB 146(HES).                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1245                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if this language was needed in addition to               
 page 2, beginning at line 4, "the Department of Education shall               
 report to the legislature containing the standards used to prepare            
 the competency examination".                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN answered that, the way Section 2 is written,           
 it only calls for the production of a report.  The proposed                   
 amendment moves beyond the report to the actual implementation of             
 standards by the DOE.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1284                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the language in Section 2 and                
 questioned how the amendment would improve the language, unless               
 Representative Kemplen felt that DOE would give a report, but not             
 actually do it.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1313                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said the wording in Section 2, basically,              
 says that the DOE shall provide a report.  It doesn't say that the            
 standards are uniform, it doesn't say that the standards apply                
 statewide, there is ambiguity as it is currently phrased in Section           
 2.  The proposed amendment would clarify and outline what is to be            
 accomplished in a more specific fashion.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1361                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood the wish to put it in more solid                    
 language, but he felt that the standards developed for this                   
 statewide test would not also be implemented statewide.                       
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 2.  Representatives Kemplen           
 and Brice voted yea.  Representatives Vezey, Dyson, Green and Bunde           
 voted nay.  Representative Porter was absent for the vote.                    
 Amendment 2 failed to be adopted.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1401                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN made a motion to move Amendment 3 to HB
 146(HES).                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1408                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected to the motion for the purposes of                     
 discussion.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1410                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said Amendment 3 seeks to address a concern            
 about remediation.  If an individual fails the examination they               
 would be given an opportunity and assistance to learn in the areas            
 they are deficient in.  This amendment directs the institution,               
 providing the competency exam, to provide a method of remediation             
 in case of failure.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1464                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE felt the districts would work fervently for                    
 remediation.  As HB 146(HES) allows students to take the test up to           
 three years after high school, he felt the proposed amendment would           
 add significantly to the fiscal note.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1486                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said Representative Kemplen was correct, but             
 agreed with the chair.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1518                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that he felt the reason behind HB
 146(HES) was to provide consistent measures to ensure that students           
 are learning what they are supposed to.  He felt Amendment 3                  
 allowed for consistent application.  Those students who fail once             
 will get assistance to address their deficiencies.  He said we                
 can't predict what all districts will do.  He felt Amendment 3 was            
 a logical extension of the bill.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1568                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to students with test taking anxiety            
 and said if those students fail this test they might be thrown into           
 a remediation class when it is clear that they know the material.             
                                                                               
 Number 1620                                                                   
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 3.  Representatives Kemplen           
 and Brice voted yea.  Representatives Green, Vezey and Bunde voted            
 nay.  Representatives Porter and Dyson were absent for the vote.              
 Amendment 3 failed to be adopted.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1651                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 4.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected for purposes of discussion.  He                 
 stated that social science, in his mind, included civics and asked            
 if civics would be included under this title.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that, in discussions with DOE, this                  
 language addition would be challenging.  He believed U.S. history             
 and Alaska history would connotate the civics component.  Students            
 would certainly have to understand our democratic process if they             
 were to understand U.S. history.  He said the DOE had a hard time             
 finding tests which would accomplish what the legislature wanted to           
 accomplish, this is the reason for excluding social science.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1694                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY expressed concern about the need to know                 
 Alaska history.  He cited the difficulties in students who move               
 from out of state to Alaska.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1714                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated that it is important for students to              
 know about civics.  He asked if it would be cumbersome to leave               
 social sciences in the bill with the additional requirement of U.S.           
 history and Alaska history.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1731                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE thought civics was covered in history classes.                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN felt it was a separate subject.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said civics is a study of governmental                   
 processes.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1748                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained that when he took civics, they had             
 things that were not taught in U.S. or world history.  It was                 
 vocational, not historical.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1781                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated that he had a different view.                           
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 4.  Representatives Dyson,            
 Kemplen, Brice, Green and Bunde voted yea.  Representatives Vezey             
 voted nay.  Representative Porter was absent for the vote.                    
 Amendment 4 was adopted.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1834                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 146(HES) with                   
 individual recommendations.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1840                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected in order to make an expectation that            
 the sponsor would look into the civics question at the next                   
 committee of referral.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1849                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE felt this was a reasonable expectation.                        
                                                                               
 Number 1852                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated that the DOE did not feel there                 
 should be a statewide test on science and social science due to the           
 lack of consensus on standards.  He asked if it was the intent of             
 the drafters to address this concern of the DOE.                              
                                                                               
 Number 1880                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said it is the intent of the bill sponsor to leave             
 science in there with the expectation that the DOE would find a               
 basic science test with which they will feel comfortable.  He added           
 that the DOE would rather get involved in a lab situation which he            
 didn't feel was possible.  There should be some basic science                 
 information and knowledge in this competency exam.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1890                                                                   
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken on HB 146(HES).  Representatives Green,            
 Vezey, Dyson and Bunde voted yea.  Representatives Kemplen and                
 Brice voted nay.  Representative Porter was absent for the vote.              
 The committee moved HB 146(HES) from the House Health, Education              
 and Social Services Standing Committee with attached fiscal notes             
 and individual recommendations.                                               
                                                                               

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