Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/21/2000 02:00 PM FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
SENATE BILL NO. 7                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
An Act relating to the University of Alaska and                                                                                 
university land, and authorizing the University of                                                                              
Alaska to select additional state land.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to ADOPT Amendment #1, 1-                                                                             
LS0072\W.1, Luckhaupt, 3/21/00.  [Copy on File].                                                                                
Representative J. Davies OBJECTED for the purpose of                                                                            
discussion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TIBBLES, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT,                                                                            
distributed language that would help clarify the amendment.                                                                     
[Copy on File].  He noted that there had been a question                                                                        
regarding when the land could be selected and explained it                                                                      
could be chosen if it was not being used.  The additional                                                                       
language speaks to the role of the municipality.  Co-Chair                                                                      
Therriault clarified that the University and the                                                                                
municipality would be on the same "footing".                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies questioned the clause in the                                                                           
addendum that "the University may not select the land".                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WENDY REDMAN, VICE PRESIDENT, STATEWIDE PROGRAMS, UNIVERSITY                                                                    
OF ALASKA, FAIRBANKS, recommended that a comma replace the                                                                      
semicolon.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies WITHDREW his OBJECTION to the                                                                          
amendment.  There being NO further OBJECTION, Amendment #1                                                                      
was adopted.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault WITHDREW Amendment #2, 1-LS0072\W.2,                                                                        
Luckhaupt, 3/21/00.  [Copy on File].                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to adopt Amendment #3, 1-                                                                             
LS0072\W.3, Luckhaupt, 3/21/00.  [Copy on File].  There                                                                         
being NO OBJECTION, Amendment #3 was adopted.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies stated that Amendment #2 would                                                                         
"fix" the logic of Subsection M.  He suggested that the                                                                         
language in that section does not make sense without the                                                                        
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault requested Ms. Redman to explain that                                                                        
language.  Ms. Redman replied that the language that exists                                                                     
in the draft bill W.2, all conveyances of land come to the                                                                      
University with the existing easement rights-of-way. Ms.                                                                        
Redman noted that the University is interested in receiving                                                                     
reasonable protection.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Bunde speculated that if the amendment were                                                                          
offered, it would put pressure on the Commissioner of the                                                                       
Department of Natural Resources to speed up easements on the                                                                    
right-of-ways.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies requested to modify Amendment #2 by                                                                    
placing it in the positive.  On Line 3, delete "may not                                                                         
conveying" and insert "when conveying"; Line 4, delete                                                                          
"reserves" and insert "shall reserve".                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND, STAFF, SENATOR ROBIN TAYLOR, noted that language                                                                     
would work well.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt the amended                                                                             
Amendment #2.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies MOVED to adopt an amendment on Page                                                                    
12, Line 19, deleting "may" and inserting "shall".  Co-Chair                                                                    
Therriault OBJECTED.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies explained that the change would                                                                        
illustrate the concept of the University "demonstration                                                                         
forest".  He thought that using "may" would leave a                                                                             
possibility that nothing would happen.  If "shall" is used,                                                                     
it is guaranteed that there will be action.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder asked if Representative J. Davies believed                                                                      
that the demonstration forest would make money for the                                                                          
University.  Representative J. Davies stated it would.  Ms.                                                                     
Redman argued that she did not know. She believed that the                                                                      
primary purpose of a demonstration forest would not be to                                                                       
maximize income but to act as laboratory for forestry                                                                           
practices.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder understood that the purpose of the bill was                                                                     
to attempt to make the University "whole" from possible                                                                         
income generated.  He voiced concern that it could become a                                                                     
"money looser" rather than a "money maker".  Representative                                                                     
J. Davies argued that there has been resistance to                                                                              
developing the forestlands.  He commented that Alaska has                                                                       
not moved into the modern age of how to manage forests.  He                                                                     
stressed the language change would allow more economic                                                                          
development.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Bunde complained that "shall" would make for                                                                         
micro-management.  Co-Chair Therriault agreed.  Inclusion of                                                                    
"shall" indicates that the Legislature would like to see                                                                        
something happen on the land but are not mandating it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative G. Davis pointed out that there are many                                                                         
"shalls" included in the same section of the bill.  He asked                                                                    
if there would be an opportunity for grants if the                                                                              
University had established the demonstration project.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR:  Grussendorf, Moses, Phillips, J. Davies                                                                              
OPPOSED: Austerman, Bunde, G. Davis, Foster, Mulder,                                                                            
Therriault                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Moses was not present for the vote.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION FAILED (4-6).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Redman noted that the University's fiscal note should be                                                                    
in sink with Department of Natural Resources.  The                                                                              
University would be spending all non-general funds.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CAROL CARROLL, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE                                                                             
SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES, interjected that                                                                     
the Department of Natural Resources will provide a revised                                                                      
fiscal note indicating interagency receipts.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies asked the assumption in making the                                                                     
additional increment of $600 thousand dollars.  Ms. Carroll                                                                     
replied that on bigger sections of land, the cost is less to                                                                    
survey. She emphasized that the Department will only be paid                                                                    
for the work that they do.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies inquired if the legislation was                                                                        
approved, could an RPL be developed if there was a need.                                                                        
Co-Chair Therriault agreed, noting that it is important that                                                                    
the Legislature take a "guess" as to what it is going to be.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault asked if the legislation were to come                                                                       
into law, how quickly would the University be incurring some                                                                    
of these costs.  Ms. Redman responded that the University                                                                       
would be able to be back the first year with some small                                                                         
sections of lands.  There has been discussion with some                                                                         
municipalities of undertaking some shared development.  She                                                                     
anticipated needing the full ten years for the amount of                                                                        
land.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault recommended that the amount should be                                                                       
estimated.  He questioned if there needed to be a change to                                                                     
the note.  Ms. Redman did not anticipate that, however asked                                                                    
to check with the University's financial division.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault questioned why the dollar amount did not                                                                    
match with the Department.  Ms. Carroll noted that the note                                                                     
from the Department should reflect the "House Resources                                                                         
Committee" version of the bill.  Ms. Redman added that the                                                                      
corrected fiscal notes would be available tomorrow.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Redman commented that there was nothing in the bill that                                                                    
would require them to give money to the Department of Fish                                                                      
and Game.  Ms. Redman stated that the Commissioner of                                                                           
Department of Natural Resources in collaboration with the                                                                       
Commissioner of Department of Fish and Game would make that                                                                     
determination.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Carroll asked for clarification whether it was                                                                              
anticipated that Department of Natural Resources would be                                                                       
collecting for the Department of Fish and Game.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DICK MYLIUS, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), RESOURCE                                                                           
ASSESSEMENT DEVELOPMENT SECTION of LAND, MINE AND WATER,                                                                        
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOUCRS, stated that the Department's                                                                    
fiscal note did not include Department of Fish and Game                                                                         
costs.   That Department would be reviewing selections from                                                                     
a wildlife point of view, which was not factored into the                                                                       
costs for the Department of Natural Resources.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault noted that the fiscal notes would be                                                                        
adjusted so that the dollar amount was in sink.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman asked to change the Department of                                                                      
Fish and Game fiscal note to reflect interagency receipt                                                                        
money coming from the University.  Ms. Redman stated that                                                                       
the University would not be purchasing services from                                                                            
Department of Fish and Game.  Representative Austerman asked                                                                    
if the Department of Fish and Game fiscal note was                                                                              
erroneous.  Co-Chair Therriault stated that the Department                                                                      
of Fish and Game would be offering an opinion with                                                                              
dispositions of State lands.  Ms. Carroll believed that                                                                         
Department of Fish and Game's note was written in reference                                                                     
to Page 6, Lines 22-25.  She believed that it would create a                                                                    
lot of work.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Phillips suggested that the fiscal note be                                                                       
changed to interagency receipts to Department of Natural                                                                        
Resources rather than to the University.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman stated that he did not want to see                                                                     
more work for the Department without funding.  Somewhere                                                                        
along the way, the Department will need to be paid.  Ms.                                                                        
Redman supported the idea presented by Representative                                                                           
Phillips.  She noted that she did not anticipate the                                                                            
Department of Fish and Game being impacted, however, the                                                                        
University would compensate that Department for the seal of                                                                     
approval on the lands.  She recommended that be incorporated                                                                    
through interagency receipts. Ms. Redman noted that the                                                                         
Department of Natural Resources fiscal note would be handled                                                                    
separately.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies MOVED to report HCS CS SB 7 (FIN)                                                                      
out of Committee with individual recommendations and with                                                                       
the attached fiscal notes.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                    
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HCS CS SB 7 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do                                                                      
pass" recommendation and with new fiscal notes by the                                                                           
Department of Fish and Game, the University of Alaska and                                                                       
Department of Natural Resources.                                                                                                

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