Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124

01/25/2024 10:15 AM House ENERGY

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Audio Topic
10:15:28 AM Start
10:17:17 AM HB227
11:07:54 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 227 ELECTRIC UTILITY LIABILITY TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 227 Out of Committee
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
               HB 227-ELECTRIC UTILITY LIABILITY                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:17:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  announced that the  only order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE BILL  NO.  227, "An  Act relating  to  liability of  an                                                               
electric  utility   for  contact   between  vegetation   and  the                                                               
utility's facilities."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:18:05 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER opened public testimony on HB 227.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:18:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JASON CUSTER, Vice President,  Regulatory and Government Affairs,                                                               
testified in  support of HB  227.  He said  that HB 227  helps to                                                               
ensure that  electric utilities  are not  held liable  for damage                                                               
caused by  vegetation located outside the  legal right-of-way and                                                               
therefore  outside a  utility company's  legal  control.   Alaska                                                               
Power  and Telephone  dutifully  maintains  its right-of-way  and                                                               
keeps it free  of vegetation.  He stated that  it is unreasonable                                                               
to  expect utility  companies to  be  responsible for  vegetation                                                               
outside the right-of-way because  it could significantly increase                                                               
the cost to rate payers.   He mentioned that the Tongass National                                                               
Forest has specific  rules regarding tree cutting.   He said that                                                               
Native  corporations  and  Tribal entities  have  concerns  about                                                               
having trees  cut down.   The public  would likely object  to the                                                               
appearance  of extended  clearcuts.   Burying  power  lines is  a                                                               
possibility; however,  it is expensive and  would increase rates.                                                               
In the  event of a fire,  the Alaska Power and  Telephone Company                                                               
would face challenges  with disaster recovery, and  if there were                                                               
also liability  charges on  top of  restoring power,  the company                                                               
would  likely go  bankrupt,  there would  be  delays to  disaster                                                               
recovery, and rates would further increase.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:21:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTIAN  RATAJ,   Senior  Regional  Vice   President,  National                                                               
Association   of  Mutual   Insurance   Companies,  testified   in                                                               
opposition  to  HB  227.     He  referred  to  written  testimony                                                               
[included  in  the  committee  packet]   and  offered  to  answer                                                               
questions  posed during  the previous  bill hearing.   He  stated                                                               
that  HB 227  does  not have  provisions  about risk  mitigation,                                                               
prevention,  or vegetation  reduction  and management  standards.                                                               
Most state legislatures are focusing  on wildfire prevention.  He                                                               
said that  HB 227 would  grant broad unqualified  legal liability                                                               
immunity for electric utilities  in certain situations.  Absolute                                                               
civil  liability immunity  grants a  free  pass.   He noted  that                                                               
businesses and  individuals are more  responsible when  they have                                                               
exposure.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:26:24 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE  asked  why  vegetation  outside  of  the                                                               
right-of-way would be a problem.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:27:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. RATAJ  responded that  generally if a  utility does  not have                                                               
control over  a hazard,  then it would  not be  held responsible.                                                               
If the  utility was aware  of a  hazard outside of  the easement,                                                               
for  example a  tree  that  is precariously  leaning  prior to  a                                                               
storm, and  if the homeowner  is not  notified, under HB  227 the                                                               
utility would not be liable.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:29:24 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   PRAX  asked   about   liability  insurance   for                                                               
homeowners.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER asked if Representative  Prax sought to expand the                                                               
right-of-way.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX noted  that as  a property  owner it  is his                                                               
responsibility  to  know  the  risks of  trees  on  his  property                                                               
regarding their proximity to powerlines.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:31:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KERIANN   BAKER,   Chief   Strategy   Officer,   Homer   Electric                                                               
Association, an  electric utility  that maintains 1,500  miles of                                                               
above-ground  lines, discussed  the robust  vegetation management                                                               
plan  which involves  touching every  portion of  the line  every                                                               
seven years.   The right-of-way  includes 10 feet on  either side                                                               
of the  lines, and  she expressed her  concern that  trees beyond                                                               
the right-of-way are growing much  higher and could blow into the                                                               
line.   She  maintained  that  HB 227  does  not provide  blanket                                                               
immunity to utilities.  She  described the hazard tree mitigation                                                               
program, wherein a property owner  can call the utility and grant                                                               
permission  for the  utility to  remove  a hazardous  tree.   She                                                               
stated that it is the  responsibility of the private landowner to                                                               
maintain  problematic  vegetation.   She  further  expressed  her                                                               
support for HB 227.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:35:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked if utilities  could put a notice in the                                                               
billing statement that  explains if tall trees  grow just outside                                                               
of the  right-of-way, the  landowner is  liable should  they fall                                                               
within the right-of-way and cause damage or fire.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:36:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. BAKER responded  about annual notices and  offered to provide                                                               
the committee  with a copy.   She referred to the  Homer Electric                                                               
Association's   webpage   about   hazard   trees   and   clearing                                                               
information.   Homer Electric Association also  advertises on the                                                               
radio encouraging  property owners  to call  if they  have hazard                                                               
trees.  She stated that the  utilities are under no obligation to                                                               
police private property.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:37:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX   asked  whether  customers   complain  when                                                               
branches are removed that are hanging into the right-of-way.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BAKER responded  that tree cutting is unpopular  and that the                                                               
utility  works   with  vendors  for  vegetation   management  and                                                               
encourages vendors  to buck firewood and  clean up the site  in a                                                               
timely manner.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:38:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER,  after ascertaining  that no  one else  wished to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on HB 227.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:38:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE asked  whether  someone from  Legislative                                                               
Legal   Services  was   available   to   provide  clarity   about                                                               
conflicting statements between testifiers.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:40:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX  moved  to  adopt Amendment  1  to  HB  227,                                                               
labeled  33-LS0969\B.1,  A.  Radford,   1/24/24,  which  read  as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 2 - 3:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
          "(c)  This section does not preclude civil                                                                            
     liability  for  property  damage,  death,  or  personal                                                                  
     injury  resulting from  contact between  vegetation and                                                                    
     the utility's facilities if                                                                                                
               (1)  the vegetation was located entirely                                                                         
     within the  boundaries of the utility's  real property,                                                                    
     lease,  permit,  easement,   or  right-of-way  and  the                                                                    
     utility  did not  have,  or failed  to  comply with,  a                                                                    
     vegetation management plan; or                                                                                             
               (2)  the vegetation was located outside the                                                                      
     boundaries  of  the  utility's  real  property,  lease,                                                                    
     permit,  easement,  or  right-of-way  and  the  utility                                                                    
     caused the vegetation to                                                                                                   
               (A)  enter the boundaries of the utility's                                                                       
     real  property, lease,  permit, easement,  or right-of-                                                                    
     way; and                                                                                                                   
               (B)  contact the utility's facilities."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 4, following "section,":                                                                                      
          Insert "(1)"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 6, following "utility":                                                                                       
          Insert ";                                                                                                             
               (2)  "vegetation management plan" means a                                                                        
     document  that  establishes  a  procedure  by  which  a                                                                    
     utility   will  manage   vegetation   to  protect   the                                                                    
     reliability  and  safety   of  the  utility's  electric                                                                    
     facilities"                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:40:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:40:21 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX said  that HB 227 as it  is currently drafted                                                               
grants liability  protection for utilities without  defining what                                                               
is  negligible.   He  opined  that  utilities are  not  negligent                                                               
because the rights-of-way  are too narrow.  He sought  to fix the                                                               
underlying  problem  and  suggested   that  the  House  Judiciary                                                               
Standing Committee take a closer look at the bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:41:18 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  noted   that  larger  rights-of-way  on                                                               
smaller  lots  could  potentially  be  problematic  for  property                                                               
owners.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:42:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE asked for a description of Amendment 1.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:42:34 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 10:42 a.m. to 10:44 a.m.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:44:22 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  stated he  has concerns about  the impact                                                               
of  HB 227  and while  he  understands that  the House  Judiciary                                                               
Standing Committee  may be better  suited to interpret  the bill,                                                               
he  hesitates regarding  moving HB  227 out  of committee  due to                                                               
unanswered legal questions about liability.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER sought the expertise of Andy Leman.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:45:55 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ANDY  LEMAN,  Counsel,  Alaska Power  Association,  commented  on                                                               
Amendment  1  and  said  he had  concerns  with  adding  language                                                               
regarding  a  vegetation management  plan.    He claimed  he  was                                                               
unaware of  fires in Alaska that  were caused in recent  years by                                                               
vegetation beside  a right-of-way.  Utilities  are already keenly                                                               
aware of the need to manage vegetation in the right-of-way.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:47:57 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  offered Mr. Leman  the opportunity to  comment on                                                               
liability.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEMAN  said that HB 227  would provide a clear  rule that the                                                               
utility is protected in the event  of a fire caused by vegetation                                                               
outside  of   the  right-of-way.    There   is  still  negligence                                                               
liability for utilities if the  vegetation management plan is not                                                               
upheld, or if  poles and other equipment are  neglected and cause                                                               
a fire  or other damage.   Utilities have lots of  incentives and                                                               
potential legal  liability to encourage the  maintenance of their                                                               
system and continued right-of-way management.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MCKAY  offered   his   thoughts  regarding   the                                                               
significant  number   of  miles  of  rights-of-way   adjacent  to                                                               
government  land.    He  noted  the  challenges  of  the  utility                                                               
companies  to  force  governments to  maintain  their  vegetation                                                               
adjacent  to  rights-of-way.   He  offered  his support  for  the                                                               
legislation moving to the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:51:57 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE pointed out  that major fires cause losses                                                               
for  everyone.   He suggested  that a  prudent, low-cost  measure                                                               
could be to notify homeowners  of maintenance recommendations for                                                               
vegetation adjacent to rights-of-way.   He expressed his concerns                                                               
with utility negligence.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:53:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENATIVE  BAKER disagreed  with  Representative Schrage  and                                                               
noted that property  owners may opt not to cut  down their trees.                                                               
He stated his support for HB 227 as it is currently written.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  agreed that the  choice to remove  a tree                                                               
is the responsibility  and legal liability of the  homeowner.  He                                                               
clarified  that   if  utilities  are  not   liable  per  statute,                                                               
utilities may choose not to  send out notifications to homeowners                                                               
that  would  have  prevented  potential  damage  from  vegetation                                                               
outside the  rights-of-way.  He noted  the cost to the  state and                                                               
addressed solutions  to prevent  wildfires.  He  reemphasized his                                                               
concerns with HB 227.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  defended HB 227  and emphasized the  thousands of                                                               
miles of lines that would need  to be monitored by utilities.  He                                                               
noted that utility companies work  hard to monitor and inform the                                                               
public about potential hazards around powerlines.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SCHRAGE    sought   additional    clarity   from                                                               
Legislative Legal  Services.  He agreed  about the impracticality                                                               
and expense  of maintaining  so many  miles of  power lines.   He                                                               
speculated that there  may be legal precedent for  a framework of                                                               
what is  reasonable for  the size  and maintenance  of rights-of-                                                               
way.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:00:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ARMSTRONG said  that Representative  Prax' points                                                               
bring up  the opportunity  for a  more robust  conversation about                                                               
changing weather  patterns including extreme weather  events like                                                               
wildfires, heavy snow,  and droughts.  As  weather events change,                                                               
she  suggested   collaboration  among  stakeholders   to  prevent                                                               
problems like wildfires.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:01:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX   stated  that  there  is   likely  a  legal                                                               
foundation  that  could  be  used   to  determine  parameters  of                                                               
negligence  through   collaboration  with   utilities,  insurance                                                               
companies, and legislators.  He  gave a hypothetical mathematical                                                               
option for improving the size of rights-of-way.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER asked  whether  the issues  could  be worked  out                                                               
before  moving   the  bill  to   the  House   Judiciary  Standing                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX  said because  of time constraints,  the bill                                                               
should be moved out of committee with or without Amendment 1.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:05:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 11:05 a.m. to 11:06 a.m.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:06:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER  asked  if  the  objection  to  Amendment  1  was                                                               
maintained.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE removed his objection to Amendment 1.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX [moved  to]  withdraw Amendment  1.   [There                                                               
being no objection, Amendment 1 was withdrawn.]                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCKAY moved  to report  HB 227  out of  committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  fiscal                                                               
notes.  There being no objection,  HB 227 was reported out of the                                                               
House Special Committee on Energy.                                                                                              

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Statement of Zero Fiscal Impact.pdf HENE 1/25/2024 10:15:00 AM
HB 227
AK HB 227 utilities immunity - NAMIC's written testimony 1.25.24 final.pdf HENE 1/25/2024 10:15:00 AM
HB 227