Legislature(2003 - 2004)
03/09/2004 11:01 AM House EDU
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 405-SCHOOL PERFORMANCE DESIGNATION/REPORT Number 1453 CHAIR GATTO announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 405, "An Act relating to reports on school and school district performance; and relating to accountability of public schools and school districts; and providing for an effective date." REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved to adopt CSHB 405, 23-LS1533\H, Mischel, 3/8/04, as the working document. There being no objection, Version H was before the House Special Committee on Education. Number 1337 LES MORSE, Director, Assessment and Accountability, Department of Education and Early Development, testified in support of HB 405 and answered questions from the members. He told the members that this legislation is designed to bring the performance designations in-line with the No Child Left Behind Act. Under the current law the designations are: distinguished, successful, deficient, and in crisis. With this legislation those designators would be removed and would be replaced with language that directs the department, working with the state board of education, to implement regulations to put in place a designation system that is consistent with the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) [on page 3, lines 12 through 31 and page 4, lines 1 through 16]. The designations that would be used are those that are required by adequately yearly progress, he added. MR. MORSE noted that the NCLB requires a single accountability system within each state, and the department believes having a single system with the same designations would not only be coherent, but would make communication with the schools and the public much easier. He told the members that the law also requires that there be other information added in terms of the designation system which would be based on school performance, such as student performance on assessments. Mr. Morse explained that this would be addressed in state regulations. Number 1196 MR. MORSE pointed to page 3, line 25, where there is language which adds district improvement plans. Previous to this legislation there were school improvement plans, but not district improvement plans, he said. Mr. Morse told the members that this change is also required by the NCLB Act. MR. MORSE told members that on page 4, line 4, there is a technical correction. The words "as amended" were added because the NCLB Act is actually an amendment to the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965. MR. MORSE explained that on page 4, lines 15 and 16, the following subsection was added: (3) "statewide student assessment" means the assessment system established under (c) of this section. MR. MORSE told the members that the reason for this addition is due to the necessity to define and clarify what assessments in state regulations will be used for making the designations. BARBARA THOMPSON, Director, Teaching and Learning Support, Department of Education and Early Development, testified in support of HB 405 and answered questions from the members. She pointed to page 4, line 17, which is commonly called the "thick report." Ms. Thompson explained that this is a report that contains nine different components of information that is due to the legislature on February 15th of each year. The department's reason for supporting the repeal of this section is that much of the data in this report is already found on line, is accessible to anyone, and is often updated before the February 15th deadline. There are other parts of the report that contain self-reported data, as well as, data that is verified by a third party. An example of [third party verified] data might be student assessment data that gets scored, verified, and returned to the state. Ms. Thompson told the members that she believes the most important data that comes from this report is the school report cards and district report cards. That data is getting more detailed. Any data that is in the thick report, will be available upon request and will be posted on line, she concluded. Number 0996 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON referred to page 4, line 20 and 21, where it says: TRANSITION REGULATIONS. The Board of Education and Early Development may proceed to adopt regulations to implement the changes made by this Act. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked why the word "may" is used instead of the word "shall". MR. MORSE responded that the regulations are already in place to implement the system, so the terminology is not significant. Number 0936 REPRESENTATIVE GARA commented that currently there are some grades that must be tested statewide. He noted that the NCLB Act requires that testing be done on other grades. Representative Gara asked if the state is doing testing in grades other than those required under NCLB Act. MR. MORSE replied that at this point the state is testing only those years required by NCLB and those required by state statute related to the high school qualifying exam. He added that there is also a form of an assessment in state statute called the "Kindergarten Profile" that is required, however, it is not required by NCLB. REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked what grades are required to be tested under NCLB. MR. MORSE clarified his previous statement by saying that under NCLB the state is required to test grades three through eight, and one grade level between ten and twelve. In order to have a consistent and coherent system, the department has developed an accountability plan, which was approved by the state Department of Education and Early Development. The decision was made to assess all students in grades three through ten, he said. Mr. Morse explained that while it is not required to test grade nine, it was decided to do that to have a consistent system all the way through the tenth grade. Number 0790 CHAIR GATTO commented that in Matanuska-Susitna Borough School District the benchmark exams are grades three, six, and eight; the Terra Nova exams which are grades four, five, and seven; but not grade nine. Then in tenth grade the exist exam is administered. He asked if this is just the policy of the Matanuska-Susitna Borough School District or is that a statewide policy. MR. MORSE responded that the testing policy is statewide. There will be some adjustments starting in the spring of 2005; however, testing will still be grades three through ten. He commented that the tests will be different. CHAIR GATTO asked how parents could compare how his/her child and school is doing relative to the rest of the students and schools in the state. MR. MORSE replied that there is a state report card on line in which each school is listed. CHAIR GATTO asked how many thick reports are produced. MS. THOMPSON responded that there are about ten copies made each year. CHAIR GATTO told Ms. Thompson that he was approached by several people who asked that Section 4 of the bill be deleted from HB 405 because the thick report is valuable to them. He explained the he is planning on proposing an amendment later to delete that portion of the bill. Chair Gatto asked Ms. Thompson how many man-hours are required to produce the ten copies that are required. MS. THOMPSON responded that it takes about ten staff members two weeks of time. In some cases, the thick report refers to the web site where the data is most accurate, she added. CHAIR GATTO commented that is ten staff, at 40 hours per week for two weeks, that's 80 hours [per staff member]. MS. THOMPSON clarified that it would not necessarily be full time work, since staff may be working on other things at the same time. Number 0540 CHAIR GATTO surmised that it takes about 400 man-hours. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked if gathering the information for the report impacts the school districts. MS. THOMPSON responded that it does not impact the districts. The districts are asked to provide some information which is self-reported data and what is asked for is not burdensome. REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked why not get rid of the thick report if all the data is accessible elsewhere. MS. THOMPSON clarified that much of the data is available on line. Not every single one of the nine elements is on line, but it could be put on line. She added that some of the data is self-reported and needs to be taken with a "grain of salt." CHAIR GATTO commented that there is real value in a book. He stated that he wants to accommodate those who want the thick report, and asked how many people request it. MS. THOMPSON replied that two people ask for it, Senators Bunde and Wilken. CHAIR GATTO commented that he wants it too. He suggested that it would not be possible for an individual to collect all that data without spending a great deal of time. Chair Gatto said he believes it is better to keep the thick report. He asked if it would save time to produce the thick report on a CD. MS. THOMPSON responded that producing the report on CD would not require more time. It can be produced in any format, she added. Number 0142 REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if the school districts use the report or are the two copies mentioned the only ones that are distributed. MS. THOMPSON replied that this report does not get sent out to school districts. A lot of the data in the report comes from school districts, for instance, the report card data and other personnel self-reporting data. She said that she believes the districts are not even aware of this report. The districts have their own data and if a school or district wanted to compare data with other districts or schools that information is on line. Ms. Thompson told the members that this report is delivered to the legislature, two of which are specific requests. REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked what years the state tested students under state law before NCLB Act was passed. TAPE 04-15, SIDE A Number 0041 MR. MORSE responded that state standardized tests were administered in grades three, six, and eight, and the high school qualifying exam [in tenth grade]. There were also assessment tests given in two grade levels, but now these assessments are given in four grade levels. Mr. Morse told the members that the state board of education, through state regulation, determined the grades the assessment tests are to be given. REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked for clarification that prior to NCLB the state did not test every year starting in grade three. Even though NCLB did not require annual testing and the state did not require annual testing, the state's policy now requires testing every year between grades three through ten for consistency purposes. He asked Mr. Morse why it is required every year. MR. MORSE replied that previous to NCLB the state assessed one grade level at the high school outside of the high school graduate qualifying exam. It was a norm reference test and the number of years was designated by the state board of education, he said. He added that at one point that assessment was done at the eleventh grade and was later moved to the ninth grade as a part of creating the system of NCLB. Ninth grade is one year that the state is not required to test, but it was decided to do it to provide some coherence between the eighth grade and when the students have to take the high school qualifying exam. REPRESENTATIVE GARA commented that testing costs money and takes teachers and students time. He said he would like to know that there is a reason to test in ninth grade other than the fact that it has been done in every other year. Representative Gara commented that it is a policy call; however, he believes if NCLB does not require testing in ninth grade, then it should not be done. Number 0298 MR. MORSE pointed out that one thing to consider is the importance of assessing how students are doing prior to taking the high school qualifying exam. He explained that the state is doing some redesign to those assessments which have been norm reference test years in the past. The [new] assessment is being done based on the state standards which is what the high school qualifying exam assesses. The ninth grade assessment, which takes parts of three days of school time, gives the school an understanding of how the students are performing against the state standards and hopefully gives them good information to help them prepare students for the high school qualifying exam. Mr. Morse said he believes those are important reasons for testing at the ninth grade. CHAIR GATTO commented it is quality control issue. It is a real value which encourages additional preparation and is revealing to the individual. REPRESENTATIVE GARA told the members that there are studies from other states that say as much as seven percent of the school budgets are being absorbed by testing requirements. When schools are finding it difficult to fund teachers, then it is a good question to ask if districts can afford the cost of testing. Representative Gara asked if the high school qualifying exam starts in tenth grade. MR. MORSE responded that is correct. Students take the exam in the spring of the sophomore year, he said. REPRESENTATIVE GARA commented that he would be interested in hearing what the National Education Association (NEA) and school boards positions are on ninth grade testing. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER, NEA, said it does not have a position on ninth grade testing. CHAIR GATTO commented that the committee will not get an official statement from the NEA on that question. Number 0574 REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to page 4, line 7, which says: (A) multiple measures of student performance; REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked for clarification of that subsection. MR. MORSE explained that the intent behind that language is to ensure that there is not just a multiple choice test, but that the test would have a way to demonstrate in an open-ended way the students' knowledge. The tests are constructed in such a way that there is a mix of multiple choice questions and then a constructed response, so when testing writing the student must write a paragraph or essay, depending on the grade level. Number 0690 CHAIR GATTO moved to adopt Amendment 1, as follows: Page 4, Line 17 Delete "AS 14.03.078" Number 0710 REPRESENTATIVE SEATON objected for purposes of discussion. He commented that if this report costs 400 man-hours at $25 per hour, the cost is about $10,000 to provide this report. Representative Seaton pointed out that legislators could make a data request from the department and get the specific data that is desired. He pointed out that the legislature is looking for ways to economize, make data more useful, and generally not degrade the legislature's ability to get information from the departments. Number 0808 REPRESENTATIVE GARA commented that Ms. Thompson said that the thick report is only requested by two people. He asked if she meant only two people request the thick report statewide. Number 0829 MS. THOMPSON replied that there are only two people that she is aware of that specifically request the report. Those two people are both in the legislature. REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked if anyone outside of the legislature either asks for or receives the thick report. MS. THOMPSON said no. REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked if the data that is compiled for the thick report is gathered for other purposes or is it specifically compiled for the report. MS. THOMPSON replied that there are a few items that are compiled specifically for the thick report; however, most are on-going reports that are on line. REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked if he understands correctly that if the thick report requirement were deleted, the department would continue to gather the data for other purposes, but not data that is only required for the thick report. MS. THOMPSON replied that is correct. If the department received a request for the data [specifically used in the thick report] it would be put together, she said. REPRESENTATIVE GARA commented, "get rid of it." CHAIR GATTO told the members that he did not expect that it would require 400 man-hours to produce the report. MS. THOMPSON stated that the 400 man-hours is an off-the-cuff estimate. Number 0968 REPRESENTATIVE SEATON withdrew his objection to Amendment 1. Number 0976 CHAIR GATTO withdrew his motion to adopt Amendment 1. Number 1016 REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to report CSHB 405, Version H, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 405(EDU) was report out of the House Special Committee on Education. The committee took an at-ease from 12:53 p.m. to 12:56 p.m.
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