Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/19/1993 01:30 PM CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
              HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS                             
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 19, 1993                                        
                            1:30 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman                                       
  Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman                                  
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative Cynthia Toohey                                                
  Representative Ed Willis                                                     
  Representative Bill Williams                                                 
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                  
                                                                               
  Representative Pat Carney                                                    
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  *HB 18:   "An Act relating to police protection service                      
            areas in municipalities."                                          
                                                                               
            PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH NO RECOMMENDATIONS                      
                                                                               
  *HB 32:   "An Act relating to reimbursement of school                        
            construction debt; and providing for an effective                  
            date."                                                             
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE                                        
                                                                               
  *HB 20:   "An Act relating to the electrical service                         
            extension fund."                                                   
                                                                               
            NOT HEARD                                                          
                                                                               
  Bills previously heard:                                                      
                                                                               
  HB 1:     "An Act establishing a motor vehicle recycling                     
            grant fund and a motor vehicle recycling                           
            registration fee; and providing for an effective                   
            date."                                                             
                                                                               
            PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS                               
            RECOMMENDATION                                                     
                                                                               
  HB 180:   "An Act relating to the residential housing                        
            inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing                      
            Finance Corporation."                                              
                                                                               
            PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH NO RECOMMENDATIONS                      
                                                                               
  (* first public hearing)                                                     
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  Jon M. Peterson, Legislative Aide                                            
    to Representative Gail Phillips                                            
  State Capitol, Room 216                                                      
  Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                       
  Phone: 465-2689                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Gave an overview of SSHB 1                               
                                                                               
  David Harding, Legislative Aide                                              
    to Representative Eileen Maclean                                           
  State Capitol, Room 507                                                      
  Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                       
  Phone: 465-4833                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Gave an overview of HB 180                               
                                                                               
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 112                                                      
  Juneau, AK  9801-1182                                                        
  Phone:  465-4843                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 18                                   
                                                                               
  Maribeth Brown, Chair                                                        
  Southeast Anchorage Police Protection Task Force                             
  14960 Sierra Way                                                             
  Anchorage, AK  99516                                                         
  Phone: 345-1468                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 18                                          
                                                                               
  Richard Weinig, Attorney                                                     
  800 E. Dimond Suite 3-620                                                    
  Anchorage, AK  99515                                                         
  Phone: 349-1900                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 18                                          
                                                                               
  Pat Abney, Member                                                            
  Southeast Anchorage Police Protection Task Force                             
  5800 E. 142nd Avenue                                                         
  Anchorage, AK  99516                                                         
  Phone: 345-1335                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 18                                          
                                                                               
  Dianne Holmes                                                                
  15140 Mesa                                                                   
  Anchorage, AK  99516                                                         
  Phone: 345-1514                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 18                                          
                                                                               
  Jerry McCutchin                                                              
  121 W. 11th                                                                  
  Anchorage, AK  99501                                                         
  Phone: 277-3076                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested amendments to HB 18                            
                                                                               
  Hugh Doogan                                                                  
  359 Slater Street                                                            
  Fairbanks, AK  99701                                                         
  Phone: 456-1869                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 18                                            
                                                                               
  Kent Swisher, Executive Director                                             
  Alaska Municipal League                                                      
  217 Second Street, Suite 200                                                 
  Juneau, AK  99801                                                            
  Phone: 586-1325                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Voiced concerns about HB 18                              
                                                                               
  Representative Pat Carney                                                    
  State Capitol                                                                
  Court Building, Room 607                                                     
  Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                       
  Phone: 465-2186                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 32                                   
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 18                                                                 
  SHORT TITLE:  FEES FOR POLICE PROTECTION BY STATE                            
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE                                        
  TITLE: "An Act relating to police protection service areas                   
  in municipalities."                                                          
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/04/93        29    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/11/93        29    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        29    (H)   CRA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  03/18/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/19/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 32                                                                 
  SHORT TITLE:  SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION DEBT REIMBURSEMENT                         
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) CARNEY                                       
  TITLE: "An Act relating to reimbursement of school                           
  construction debt; and providing for an effective date."                     
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/04/93        32    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/11/93        32    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        32    (H)   CRA, HES, FINANCE                                
  03/11/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/18/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/19/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 20                                                                 
  SHORT TITLE:  ELECTRICAL SERVICE EXTENSION FUND GRANTS                       
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) MENARD,Carney                                
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the electrical service extension                  
  fund."                                                                       
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/04/93        29    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/11/93        29    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        29    (H)   CRA, LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                   
  01/20/93       117    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): CARNEY                             
  03/18/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/19/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 1                                                                  
  SHORT TITLE:  MOTOR VEHICLE RECYCLING GRANT FUND & FEE                       
  BILL VERSION: SSHB 1                                                         
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) PHILLIPS,Finkelstein,                        
  Nordlund                                                                     
  TITLE: "An Act establishing a motor vehicle recycling grant                  
  fund and a motor vehicle recycling registration fee; and                     
  providing for an effective date."                                            
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/04/93        25    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/11/93        25    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        25    (H)   CRA, RESOURCES, FINANCE                          
  01/13/93        52    (H)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-                   
                              REFERRALS                                        
  01/13/93        52    (H)   CRA, RESOURCES, FINANCE                          
  01/20/93       116    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): FINKELSTEIN                        
  01/27/93       167    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): NORDLUND                           
  02/11/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  02/23/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  02/23/93              (H)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  03/17/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/17/93       691    (H)   RES REFERRAL WAIVED                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 180                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  AHFC HOUSING INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS                           
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN                                      
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the residential housing                           
  inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing Finance                        
  Corporation."                                                                
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/25/93       455    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/25/93       455    (H)   CRA, LABOR & COMMERCE                            
  03/11/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/11/93              (H)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  03/17/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-16, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:35                   
  p.m.  He noted for the record Representatives Bunde, Toohey,                 
  Williams, Sanders, and Willis were present.                                  
                                                                               
  SSHB 1:  MOTOR VEHICLE RECYCLING GRANT FUND AND FEE                          
                                                                               
  Number 040                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN JERRY SANDERS, CHAIR OF THE SSHB 1                             
  SUBCOMMITTEE, testified, "My staff and I have worked with                    
  the sponsor and  departments and found that there's an                       
  ongoing federal program for picking up abandoned autos at                    
  this time, which is administered by the Department of                        
  Transportation and Public Facilities.  In that light, we                     
  have brought to you this document (CSSSHB 1 (CRA)) dated                     
  March 16, 1993.  ...and I want to MOVE for ADOPTION of this                  
  document..."                                                                 
                                                                               
  Without objections CSSSHB 1 (CRA) was ADOPTED.                               
                                                                               
  Number 078                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked for an explanation of CSSSHB 1                    
  (CRA).                                                                       
                                                                               
  JON A. PETERSON, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE GAIL                     
  PHILLIPS, PRIME SPONSOR OF SSHB 1, testified, "...Because of                 
  the nature of this ongoing federal program, that was                         
  administered by the Department of Transportation, it made                    
  sense to transfer the administration of the program from the                 
  department that was in the original bill to the Department                   
  of Transportation."                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 113                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY asked if the same fiscal note                  
  pertained to CSSSHB 1 (CRA).                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON indicated there was now a new fiscal note                       
  "because of a different operating agency."                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked if this program could be characterized                 
  as "fairly revenue neutral."                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON said, "The version of the bill before you                       
  (CSSSHB 1 (CRA)) calls for an additional $2 a year fee for                   
  registration to come into the general fund to be                             
  reappropriated back out to a fund that's also created in the                 
  bill to be used for grant purposes to go to municipalities                   
  to assist them in picking up and recycle cars."                              
                                                                               
  Number 148                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE MOVED that CSSSHB 1 (CRA) be moved                  
  out of committee with individual recommendations.  Without                   
  objections, the MOTION CARRIED.                                              
                                                                               
  HB 180:  AHFC HOUSING INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS                                
                                                                               
  Number 164                                                                   
                                                                               
  DAVID HARDING, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE EILEEN                     
  MACLEAN, PRIME SPONSOR of HB 180, began by saying, "Some                     
  problems occurred as a result of the merging of the Rural                    
  Housing Loan programs that were in DCRA (Department of                       
  Community and Regional Affairs) into AHFC (Alaska Housing                    
  Finance Corporation) last year (1992).  The existing rural                   
  loan program was specifically exempted from the inspection                   
  requirements in the statute under consideration.  So when                    
  this other rural loan program came over to AHFC it seems as                  
  though there would be an argument for a similar exemption.                   
  That is not what Representative MacLean is proposing here.                   
  She recognizes the value of a housing inspection program to                  
  insure good construction standards.  What we've asked to do                  
  is broaden the pool of people eligible to make these                         
  inspections in rural areas..."                                               
                                                                               
  MR. HARDING then addressed the concerns raised when HB 180                   
  was last heard in the committee, "...Architects and                          
  engineers, whether or not they should be added specifically                  
  as a group of eligible inspectors or whether they ought to                   
  be approved on a case by case basis.  The availability of                    
  architects and engineers would make a very small, very                       
  important difference.  The likelihood is that when an                        
  architect, for example, was in a rural community inspecting                  
  some public works project...they might be asked by the                       
  community or someone in the community to do one of these                     
  inspections as long as they're there.  It would be done as a                 
  professional courtesy, this is not going to be a cash cow                    
  for architects and I really believe it will be more of a                     
  headache for them than anything else.  If they have to go to                 
  AHFC and get specific authorization, they just won't do                      
  it...  Representative MacLean asks that you leave architects                 
  and engineers in there..."                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 198                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HARDING continued, "A couple of people asked last week                   
  that in any case inspectors be approved on a case-by-case                    
  basis.  That is largely what this bill (HB 180) allows AHFC                  
  to do.  They can approve someone to be an inspector for part                 
  of one inspection or an entire single inspection or they can                 
  just identify someone in the community that they feel is                     
  good enough to do any part of this inspection.  There's a                    
  lot of flexibility there for them to provide a case-by-case                  
  review as they see fit...  There has been an informal                        
  inspection process out there in the rural areas already.                     
  The banks who are loaning the money out there have had to in                 
  whatever ways available to them, provide some kind of                        
  inspection process so they can have some assurance that                      
  they're putting their money behind a good project.  They've                  
  identified people in the communities over the years that                     
  they can trust..."                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 230                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HARDING then said, "There was a suggestion to allow a                    
  grace period of maybe a year or three years to allow time                    
  for people in remote areas to become ICBO certified...  Our                  
  feeling is that really would not work because there's just                   
  not the volume of housing construction out there to make it                  
  work...  There was the question on the definition of                         
  rural...  The law already exempts from these inspection                      
  requirements, any municipality that has its own code and its                 
  own inspection program.  In Southeast Alaska that includes                   
  Juneau, Ketchikan, Sitka, Petersburg and Skagway..."                         
                                                                               
  MR. HARDING concluded, "On the matter of substandard                         
  housing, there was the concern that this might open the door                 
  to bad housing being built in rural Alaska.  ...Again, I                     
  think the bankers who make the loans would tell you the                      
  quality of housing in rural Alaska, even without an                          
  inspection program has been steadily improving over the                      
  years...because of the cost of energy and the awareness of                   
  energy efficiency..."                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 283                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked, "You said there was still                  
  the ability of AHFC to approve people, but as I read the                     
  bill (HB 180), a person by virtue of being an architect or                   
  engineer would automatically be approved."                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HARDING said, "That's right."                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I would still raise that as an                  
  area of some concern to me.  I don't know if it's fatal...                   
  It doesn't take much of a refresher course to understand                     
  certain basic principles that are important...  I'm not so                   
  sure it would be an unreasonable requirement to ask AHFC to                  
  have a small checklist or one day refresher course..."                       
                                                                               
  MR. HARDING replied, "I would think AHFC certainly could                     
  make available the kind of checklist you're talking                          
  about..."                                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES pointed out that often banks are                       
  involved only in the construction phase because mortgages                    
  are sold.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 344                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said, "This says an architect and an                   
  engineer are eligible.  It doesn't say they're automatically                 
  going to be hired by anybody.  I'd be surprised if Alaska                    
  Housing didn't have a fairly stringent in-house training                     
  program or qualification scenario."                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE MOVED that HB 180 be passed out of                      
  committee with individual recommendations.  Without                          
  objections, IT SO MOVED.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 379                                                                   
                                                                               
  HB 18:  FEES FOR POLICE PROTECTION BY STATE                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 18, testified                      
  saying, "This is a statewide police protection enhancement                   
  bill and a revenue generating bill."  He then read his                       
  sponsor statement aloud.  (A copy of this sponsor statement                  
  may be found in the House Community and Regional Affairs                     
  Committee Room, Capitol 110, and after the adjournment of                    
  the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in                  
  the Legislative Reference Library.)                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE referred to the Department of Public                    
  Safety's fiscal note as "fiction" and said, "If you will                     
  note in the fiscal note, it appears to me the Department of                  
  Public Safety has attempted to increase their Anchorage                      
  compliment by 29 staff members.  They're making up all the                   
  positions that were reduced because of budgetary restraints                  
  and this is another back door run, I think, at building                      
  additional bureaucracy."                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 472                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARIBETH BROWN, CHAIRPERSON, SOUTHEAST ANCHORAGE POLICE                      
  PROTECTION TASK FORCE, testified via teleconference in favor                 
  of HB 18 saying, "At a time when revenues are declining and                  
  forcing the reduction of some of our basic services, such as                 
  public safety...this bill could help, I believe.  HB 18                      
  would allow communities that wanted increased police                         
  services to petition for those services, indicating the                      
  level of service they desired.  ...This would give quite a                   
  measure of self-determination for different communities, and                 
  I think it's a step in the right direction."                                 
                                                                               
  Number 512                                                                   
                                                                               
  RICHARD WEINIG, ATTORNEY, ANCHORAGE, testified via                           
  teleconference in support of HB 18.  He said, "It's a                        
  statewide bill, not just an Anchorage, Hillside bill...                      
  It's a revenue generating bill...for every area in the state                 
  that wants additional police service and is willing to pay                   
  for it and doesn't have to go through appropriations from                    
  the legislature.  People who want the services pay for the                   
  services.  ...It's a win-win situation."                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked Mr. Weinig a question regarding                  
  the fiscal note.                                                             
                                                                               
  MR. WEINIG said he hadn't seen the fiscal note.                              
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE again referred to the fiscal note as                    
  "fiction" and said, "they're talking about building a new                    
  dynasty."                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 584                                                                   
                                                                               
  PAT ABNEY, MEMBER, SOUTHEAST ANCHORAGE POLICE PROTECTION                     
  TASK FORCE, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, in                  
  support of HB 18.                                                            
                                                                               
  DIANE HOLMES, ANCHORAGE, testified via teleconference in                     
  support of HB 18.  She said, "I think this type of bill is                   
  really the forerunner of how our communities are going to be                 
  governed in the near future."                                                
                                                                               
  Number 640                                                                   
                                                                               
  JERRY MCCUTCHIN, ANCHORAGE, testifying via teleconference,                   
  suggested a detailed amendment in order to hire recently                     
  retired police within the communities.                                       
                                                                               
  HUGH DOOGAN, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference against                 
  HB 18 saying, "I think the Department of Public Safety is                    
  overtaxed right now...in reference to Hillside's problem                     
  down there...they can set up their own city...under the                      
  regulations of Community and Regional Affairs."                              
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-16, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 022                                                                   
                                                                               
  KENT SWISHER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA MUNICIPAL LEAGUE,                   
  testified expressing concerns about HB 18.  He said, "In                     
  most situations, law enforcement is a local government                       
  responsibility...  We would be concerned with how we direct                  
  a response to a call, if there is both a local police                        
  department and a state trooper unit.  ...We wonder how this                  
  all integrates in any circumstance and whether it, in fact,                  
  has the effect of undermining the structure of local                         
  government and local law enforcement.  We are also concerned                 
  about the cost of administration by the local government.                    
  We are in effect, going to be in a situation of dealing with                 
  a separate amount of money as a new tax item to spread among                 
  the number of taxpayers just as if we were dealing with a                    
  basic beginning tax assessment and all the things that go                    
  with that, including the folks who are unable or unwilling                   
  to pay that assessment, and against whom collection action                   
  must be taken..."                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 098                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out that the Task Force on                      
  Governmental Roles encouraged introduction of legislation of                 
  this type as documented in the members packets. (A copy of                   
  everything in the member packets may be found in the House                   
  Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol 110,                  
  and after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th                  
  Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference                       
  Library.)  He added, "In my way of thinking, the assessment                  
  expense will be minimal...the relationship between troopers                  
  and police isn't as complex as it might seem to some..."                     
                                                                               
  Number 160                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE then MOVED to ADOPT an AMENDMENT he had                 
  distributed to the committee in order to avoid "a bunch of                   
  amateur police forces or private police forces".  (A copy of                 
  the amendment may be found in the House Community and                        
  Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol 110, and after the                  
  adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State                   
  Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.)                          
                                                                               
  There were no objections to the motion and the AMENDMENT was                 
  ADOPTED.                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I think it's generally bad                      
  public policy for the state to impose duties on the                          
  municipality or for the federal government to impose duties                  
  on the state, when those duties are not reimbursed.  So I                    
  have a problem with that aspect of this."  He then MOVED                     
  that the word "not" BE REMOVED from "The municipality may                    
  not deduct money collected from assessments for                              
  administrative or other costs incurred by the municipality,"                 
  (line 16 -17, page 2).                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 228                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I would entertain this as a                      
  FRIENDLY AMENDMENT if after we strike the word 'not', and                    
  now we have 'may', we would add the additional verbiage 'a                   
  reasonable fee'."                                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said fine and reiterated the changes.                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said there were no objections to the motion                  
  and that these changes, as a second amendment, be                            
  incorporated.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 266                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'm a little concerned by                       
  having the statewide Department of Public Safety providing                   
  levels of service to small service areas throughout the                      
  state.  I think we ought to give the municipalities the                      
  option, if we're going to do this, to form service areas,                    
  give them the option to, at the same time get that service                   
  from an adjacent municipality...if it exists... What we're                   
  doing here moves us away from local government...rather than                 
  to try to consolidate these services within local                            
  government."  He also pointed out that "Title 29 prohibits                   
  formation of a new service area, if you can provide that                     
  service by annexation to an existing one."                                   
                                                                               
  Number 308                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE talked about the police situation in                    
  his district.  He added, "I understand Representative                        
  Davies' concerns.  Again, the best government is the closest                 
  to the people and if the people in a particular service area                 
  want to have that kind of service they ought to have those                   
  decisions available to them.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 320                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS gave an example of police                           
  protection in Eagle River.  He continued, "The home rule                     
  charter does provide and does allow for service area.  Why                   
  can't your area form that service area and do what we did."                  
                                                                               
  Number 345                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied, "I'm pleased that Eagle River                  
  is having their needs met.  Obviously, the Hillside people                   
  are not having their needs met.  At another time we can talk                 
  about political intrigues that go on behind the scenes.                      
  ...We have local service areas, Eagle River chose to do one                  
  thing.  Hillside, perhaps Talkeetna, Nikiski, whoever                        
  chooses to do another, they should have that option."                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS said, "That's what I'm wondering, I                    
  thought you did have that option.  Why can't you form the                    
  police service area under the charter and get the level of                   
  service you want?"                                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied, "The troopers will not                         
  cooperate and they must be brought to this by statute."                      
                                                                               
  Number 360                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS said, "It gets back to the question of                 
  who's going to provide the service then.  We, in Eagle                       
  River, get a municipality police force.  It's all part of it                 
  and it seems to be working real well."                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "It didn't work for us."                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY gave an example of what she thought HB
  18 would accomplish.                                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE MOVED that HB 18, as amended, be moved                  
  out of committee with individual recommendations.                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and added, "Does the sponsor                  
  object to providing the option within this attaching to the                  
  local municipality."                                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "Yes."                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "That's the reason for my                        
  objection.  I think that this (HB 18), as it's drafted now,                  
  is in conflict with Title 29."                                               
                                                                               
  Number 400                                                                   
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Davies and                      
  Willis voted AGAINST movement of HB 18.  Representatives                     
  Sanders, Williams, Bunde, Toohey, Olberg voted TO MOVE the                   
  bill out of committee with individual recommendations.                       
                                                                               
  HB 32:  SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION DEBT REIMBURSEMENT                               
                                                                               
  Number 417                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 32, read his                  
  sponsor statement for the record.  (A copy of the sponsor                    
  statement may be found in the House Community and Regional                   
  Affairs Committee Room, Capitol 110, and after the                           
  adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State                   
  Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.)  He                      
  added, "I have a little trouble understanding why there's a                  
  big fiscal note because they're already reimbursing                          
  municipalities for school construction for past bonded                       
  indebtedness that was covered by state law."                                 
                                                                               
  Number 460                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY continued, "This legislation (HB 32)                   
  is strictly a judgement call, I think, on the part of the                    
  committee.  The only decision we have to make, I think, is                   
  whether or not organized municipalities that pay taxes                       
  should have an opportunity to get state reimbursement for                    
  school construction.  Everyone knows that the current system                 
  isn't working.  I think if we make a decision to spend some                  
  BP money or some other money for school construction                         
  statewide, even then we aren't assured that our urban areas                  
  will be adequately taken care of.  ...The decision will have                 
  to be made at a later date in finance, about what we                         
  ultimately do about this problem."                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said he strongly supported HB 32 and                   
  added, "Under the present system, even if the governor's                     
  proposal to spend $150 million a year in additional money                    
  were to go into effect under the current system of                           
  priorities, we don't believe that schools will be                            
  constructed (fast enough) to meet the need in Fairbanks."                    
                                                                               
  Number 499                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG requested clarification of the school                        
  appropriation process and asked, "Aren't we already doing                    
  this?"                                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said, "The current funding has to do                   
  with commitments made in the past...this legislation (HB 32)                 
  will not affect this year's budget at all.  It won't affect                  
  the budget until two years after the bonds are sold by the                   
  municipalities.  ...Then the municipalities gets                             
  reimbursement from the state for 70 percent.  Even at the                    
  best, it would be three to four years before we see any cost                 
  to the state in the way of bonded indebtedness                               
  reimbursement."                                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Does this fall in the category of                    
  binding a future legislature?"                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY replied, "We can always under-fund,                    
  Mr. Chairman, we're doing that right now."                                   
                                                                               
  Number 515                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES commented, "The state has been paying                  
  off its indebtedness at a fairly rapid rate.  The usual rule                 
  of thumb is...to have that down less than five percent of                    
  your rolling GF (general fund) dollars.  This wouldn't have                  
  any effect on our annual budgets until a couple of years                     
  from now.  At that time we will have paid down our bonded                    
  indebtedness...below that magic five percent number."                        
                                                                               
  Number 530                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIR JERRY SANDERS said, "I think the situation                        
  they're describing would explain the fiscal note.  I think,                  
  by the time we'd be paying this two or three years from now,                 
  the state intended to be out of this business and not have                   
  anybody paying that and they'd have to reinstitute it."                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked about the list distributed to                    
  the committee members.  (A copy of the list may be found in                  
  the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room,                     
  Capitol 110, and after the adjournment of the second session                 
  of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative                     
  Reference Library.)                                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said, "This is a list of the proposed                  
  schools to be funded under the Governor's proposal for                       
  priority one schools and if you'll notice, it puts almost no                 
  money into the areas where the heaviest population is."                      
                                                                               
  Number 565                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Does the present reimbursement                       
  system exist in statute, the debt reimbursement that's being                 
  done now, or is that an annual capital appropriation that is                 
  subject to legislative whim?"                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said, "It is covered in the statute                    
  but it is legislative whim, the amount to be funded in                       
  relationship to the total amount we're committed to."                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES pointed out, "Last year (1992) the                     
  total amount that we funded for statewide school                             
  construction was only about 27 million dollars.  We                          
  anticipate in the Fairbanks area we will need to construct                   
  in this next decade 100 million dollars worth of schools."                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I need to do a little bit of homework                 
  on this (HB 32)."  Then offered to bring up HB 32 again                      
  Tuesday, March 23, 1993.                                                     
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 3:54 p.m.                           

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