Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/11/1993 01:00 PM House CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
  HB 166:  ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS                                                
  Number 050                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES addressed the second committee                    
  substitute (CS) to HB 166 produced in subcommittee.  He                      
  testified, in part, "What I want to try to do is solve some                  
  minor problems that I have... and I'm offering these in the                  
  spirit of trying to make some minor improvements that I                      
  think will help the bill along.  ...One is just a minor one:                 
  There was some language in there that said the                               
  municipalities could accomplish this in instituting this                     
  enhanced 911 system by resolution or by ordinance.  ...It                    
  was my feeling it would be better to do this by ordinance...                 
  The committee substitute really gets rid of the word                         
  'resolution' in there and also changes the construct of the                  
  sentence so that the three things a municipality is being                    
  authorized to do here, it's clear that each one of those                     
  three things is done by ordinance.                                           
  Number 142                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES continued, "The second one...is a                      
  question of what is the area of service...  My concern that                  
  I raised at the last committee meeting is we might get into                  
  a situation where we had multiple jurisdictions involved...                  
  If we went back to the original bill (HB 166), before the                    
  committee substitute, there was language in there that                       
  talked about how to handle (this), so basically all I've                     
  done is taken that language from the original bill and put                   
  it back in here...  It says that the bottom line power to                    
  set the charges rests with the individual communities.  My                   
  basic concern here is that we don't get into a situation of                  
  sort of taxation without representation...  However under                    
  Title 29, municipalities may join together to exercise                       
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "The last one is simply this                    
  question of upper limit of what can be charged.  I asked a                   
  number of people why we were making a distinction between                    
  Anchorage, effectively, and the rest of the state...nobody                   
  gave me an answer that suggested there was any particular                    
  reason to do that.  So I simply suggested in this committee                  
  substitute that we should get rid of all that language that                  
  talks about 100,000 people and simply set the maximum at 75                  
  cents.  Recognizing that...every community, every                            
  municipality sets its own upper limit."                                      
  Number 201                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 166, reminded                  
  the committee that HB 166 was introduced concurrently in the                 
  Senate and said, "If we change it substantially then we've                   
  got a problem:  Conference Committee."                                       
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked where the Senate version was                           
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE did not know.  He added, "I have no                     
  problem with the idea of an ordinance rather than a                          
  resolution... Regarding, the 75 cents charge, I think                        
  reality says that when we say, 'no more than 75 cents,' the                  
  charge will be 75 cents.  The 50 cents limit was supported                   
  by the Anchorage municipality.  There is some indication                     
  that Anchorage may not want to support a greater charge than                 
  that...  I'm not sure that the change to 75 cents total                      
  something that will be supportable..."                                       
  Number 267                                                                   
  testified via teleconference from Soldotna.  He said, "We                    
  don't have any problem with changing things from resolution                  
  or ordinance to ordinance.  However, the changes that are                    
  proposed for the next section would apparently cause us to                   
  have to totally restructure 911 as we operate it at this                     
  time.  What we do is, about 6 or 8 years ago each of the                     
  cities relinquished their 911 authority to the borough so                    
  that the Kenai Borough provides 911 on an area-wide                          
  basis...the cities themselves do not have direct input on                    
  the operation and do not have the financial involvement in                   
  the operation."                                                              
  MR. REEVES continued, "...We've reached an agreement like a                  
  contract, but our agreement is that the borough will do it                   
  itself, so we're not a separate legal entity.  And we're                     
  certainly concerned that each of the municipalities retains                  
  the power to set and amend the surcharge when the                            
  municipalities aren't involved in the operation... So I                      
  guess what we'd suggest...first of all instead of saying 'a                  
  separate legal entity', you say 'a unified or cooperative                    
  enhanced 911 system'..."  He then gave a detailed                            
  explanation of the changes he'd like to see made to CSHB
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "My concern is that the way this                 
  bill (HB 166) was originally written it seemed that it was                   
  possible for one municipality without the consent of another                 
  to set this rate..."                                                         
  MR. REEVES said, "I haven't read this bill (HB 166) to see                   
  whether or not this alters those facts, but under Title 29,                  
  I think the authority of a municipality is limited to its                    
  jurisdiction unless it meets the specific extraterritorial                   
  Number 416                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "That was specifically my                        
  concern, that this bill (HB 166) would give the                              
  municipalities that legal authority to extend their power                    
  outside their boundaries for this purpose."                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "Would it address your concerns                  
  if this (line 29 of the first CSHB 166) were to read 'the                    
  municipalities are jointly to set and amend the 911                          
  MR. REEVES said, "I just got this this morning and didn't                    
  really have a chance to think about both sides...  I think                   
  at this point I still have a concern unless it clearly                       
  somehow states that where some municipalities have given up                  
  their authority and transferred the authority to another                     
  municipality, that the municipality that now has the                         
  authority is the sole interest involved in setting those                     
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to construct an amendment to                   
  address Mr. Reeves concerns.                                                 
  Number 461                                                                   
  DEPARTMENT, testified via teleconference from Glennallen.                    
  He said, "You have my support on this bill (CSHB 166).  I do                 
  have one question though, I see most of the language                         
  referring to municipalities and I wonder if there's going to                 
  be any mechanism for the unorganized areas...to take a part                  
  in this enhanced 911 project."                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "At the present time, the very lack of                 
  organization is, in fact, the answer to the question.  There                 
  is no legal entity to channel the funds back through from                    
  the utility, as I understand it."                                            
  Number 477                                                                   
  MR. ANSELL described his situation, "Currently, the Copper                   
  Valley telephone cooperative in the area of the Copper River                 
  Basin provides 911 service, and to me it looks like it                       
  should be fairly simple to develop a mechanism for that                      
  utility to make direct payment...for that surcharge if                       
  they're allowed to collect these monies from their                           
  individual customers."                                                       
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked if Copper Valley extended into Valdez.                 
  MR. ANSELL replied, "Yes."                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Valdez could be the municipality                      
  serving the entire Copper River Valley telephone geographic                  
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "Under Title 29, a municipality                 
  may exercise powers extraterritorially."                                     
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY added, "At their request."                     
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "Absolutely."                                    
  Number 511                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OFFERED an AMENDMENT to Mr. Reeves.                    
  MR. REEVES tentatively concurred.                                            
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to "get together and work out                  
  some language that would be mutually acceptable".                            
  ALASKA STATE FIRE CHIEFS ASSOCIATION, testified, "We support                 
  the concept of enhanced 911.  We believe it's important that                 
  we have a funding mechanism and this bill (HB 166) does                      
  it..."  He suggested that "and other essential communication                 
  equipment required by the system" be added throughout the                    
  versions of CSHB 166.                                                        
  Number 569                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I think it's redundant... That                  
  extension that you have in there is effectively incorporated                 
  MR. GEORGE said, "If that's clear... if that's legislative                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES reiterated the definition sought by                    
  Mr. George was already incorporated in CSHB 166.                             
  Number 583                                                                   
  testified briefly in favor of CSHB 166.                                      
  BOB EVANS, LOBBYIST, MUNICIPALITY OF ANCHORAGE, testified in                 
  favor of CSHB 166, saying, "Mayor Fink has indicated support                 
  for the 50 cent surcharge."                                                  
  Number 600                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked why Mayor Fink did not support                   
  the 75 cents surcharge.                                                      
  MR. EVANS did not know.                                                      
  Number 609                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE talked about limiting the surcharge.                    
  He asked Mr. Evans if he thought Anchorage would charge less                 
  than the surcharge limit or if whatever the limit was set at                 
  would "become the rate" charged.                                             
  MR. EVANS said, "From the mayor's perspective, I think that                  
  he believes the pressure will go to whatever the limit is."                  
  Number 625                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG called an at ease at 1:47 p.m.                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG reconvened the meeting at 1:52.  He pointed                  
  out the committee had two different committee substitutes to                 
  HB 166 before them.                                                          
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I've just received information                   
  that the City of Fairbanks is this evening going to pass a                   
  resolution favoring my original committee substitute plus                    
  the concerns expressed by Anchorage and Kenai, I would MOVE                  
  my original committee substitute, I think that would                         
  accomplish what I want to accomplish more quickly."                          
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG acknowledged the MOTION to ADOPT                             
  Representative Bunde's CSHB 166.                                             
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "If I understand                    
  correctly, the concern is simply the question of the 75                      
  cents.  If that's the only concern, the simplest way would                   
  be to adopt the version that I suggested and then amend that                 
  back to put the 50 cent language back in there.                              
  Number 640                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE retorted, "As I had indicated, there is                 
  a large portion of the second committee substitute that                      
  addresses some specific Fairbanks concerns and now that I                    
  hear that they're going to endorse my original version, I                    
  suggest we just go ahead with that, rather than complicate                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Possibly it boils down to a pride of                  
  authorship question."                                                        
  Number 663                                                                   
  A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Davies and                      
  Willis voted AGAINST the adoption of Representative Bunde's                  
  committee substitute.  Representatives Bunde, Sanders,                       
  Toohey, Williams and Olberg voted FOR the adoption of                        
  Representative Bunde's committee substitute.                                 
  Number 667                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE denied that a "pride of authorship"                     
  existed.  "I feel that this is going to more cleanly address                 
  the problem of enhanced 911," he said.  Representative Bunde                 
  then MOVED that CSHB 166 be moved out of committee with                      
  individual recommendations.                                                  
  Number 684                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "It's always the                    
  case, however, in this stage of the legislation, amendments                  
  are made.  If they weren't, there would be no point in us                    
  hearing these things...  With respect to resolutions that                    
  are made:  People pass those resolutions at the municipal                    
  level knowing that things are going to get changed                           
  TAPE 93-12, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES PROPOSED an AMENDMENT saying, "I would                 
  like to SUBSTITUTE the language that's in my version, the                    
  second version of the committee substitute.  That would be                   
  the language on page three of that draft that comes from                     
  line 14 down through line 22 and would REPLACE the language                  
  that's in the one that's before us right now on page three,                  
  line 14 through 20."                                                         
  Number 025                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he had no objection to the                         
  The AMENDMENT PASSED.                                                        
  Number 047                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'd like to MOVE the second                     
  item which is on that same page three on the second                          
  committee substitute, line 23, on page four, line seven and                  
  SUBSTITUTE in the one that's before us from line 21 through                  
  line five on page four...  All I want to do is to substitute                 
  the language that's here (to) make it more clear...what is                   
  meant by the area and to address the concern that we don't                   
  want to establish a principle in law here that says one                      
  municipality may effectively establish a tax or surcharge on                 
  Number 074                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED saying, "In this case, as I                    
  said, being Fairbanks took a look at this and didn't have a                  
  major objection...  I suggest we go ahead with my original                   
  version (of the CS)."                                                        
  Number 092                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Are there portions of that                     
  amendment that you are willing to keep in?"                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "No."                                             
  The roll was called on AMENDMENT NUMBER TWO to the first                     
  version (Representative Bunde's version) of CSHB 166.                        
  Representatives Davies and Willis voted FOR the amendment.                   
  Representatives Sanders, Williams, Toohey, Bunde and Olberg                  
  voted AGAINST the amendment.  The MOTION FAILED.                             
  Number 119                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED that "we strike the language                     
  that restricts the upper limit to 50 cents and use the                       
  language that makes it consistent 75 cents statewide..."                     
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED.                                               
  A roll call vote was taken on the THIRD AMENDMENT proposed                   
  to the first version of CSHB 166.  Representatives Davies                    
  and Willis voted FOR the amendment.  Representatives                         
  Sanders, Williams, Bunde, Toohey and Olberg voted AGAINST                    
  the amendment.  The MOTION FAILED.                                           
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE reminded the committee he had a MOTION                  
  on the floor to pass CSHB 166 out of committee with                          
  individual recommendations.                                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES REMOVED his previous OBJECTION.                        
  The MOTION PASSED to move CSHB 166, as amended, out of                       
  committee with individual recommendations.                                   
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG thanked Representative Davies for his                        
  efforts on CSHB 166 (CRA).                                                   
  Number 170                                                                   

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