Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/26/1997 03:40 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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SJR 24 TONGASS LAND MANAGEMENT PLAN
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:40 p.m. and announced SJR 24 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR JERRY MACKIE, sponsor, said it encourages the U.S. Forest
Service to bring the Tongass Land Use Management Plan (TLUMP) to a
conclusion and supports a level of timber harvest from the Tongass
National Forest sufficient to sustain a forest product industry and
prevent further job loss and economic disruption in Southeast
Alaska. It also endorses continued oversight by Congress and the
Alaska Congressional delegation.
SENATOR MACKIE said a number of companies had been adversely
affected by a reduced harvest. The Southeast Regional Timber Task
Force passed a resolution urging the Federal government to finalize
a plan for timber harvest in the Tongass and determined a minimum
annual harvest level of 300 million board feet (MMBF) was necessary
to reestablish a viable integrated timber industry.
Number 79
SENATOR TAYLOR said he had an amendment prepared in conjunction
with the Alaska Forest Association that deletes "a harvest level of
300 MMBF be maintained, because any decision to further reduce" and
insert, "the United States Forest Service make available an annual
amount of at least 300 MMBF of timber that is economical to harvest
from the Tongass National Forest with offerings uniformly released
throughout each fiscal year, because any record of decision that
further reduces".
SENATOR MACKIE responded that he didn't pull 300 MMBF out of the
sky; it is a number that came from the Governor's Timber Task Force
which had representatives from municipalities, industry, and
environmental groups - a consensus group.
SENATOR TAYLOR explained that the Forest Service cannot control the
specific harvest levels. That will depend upon contracts and
market conditions and other things. They can control a consistent
level of offerings of timber volumes. He said there haven't been
consistent offerings.
SENATOR MACKIE said he didn't see why the amendment wouldn't work
since it further refines the language.
SENATOR LINCOLN commented the way she read the amendment is that
the annual offering has to be at least 300 MMBF and she understood
that out of the 11 communities participating in the Southeast
Regional Timber Task Force, eight voted against the resolution
supporting the 300 MMBF because they felt it was too high.
SENATOR MACKIE said that was news to him and his understanding was
that 300 MMBF was a recommendation from the Task Force.
Number 172
MR. WALT SHERIDAN, Walt Sheridan and Associates, supported SJR 24.
He supported previous testimony and added that it also puts the
Alaska State Legislature on record as supporting an annual timber
harvest from the Tongass of at least 300 MMBF. He said the Forest
Service has been working on the plan for over a decade - a decade
during which they have seen the loss of over half of the direct
timber jobs in Southeast Alaska. He said this level of harvest was
from a vote of 11 - 4 on the Governor's Timber Task Force. It was
endorsed by the Ketchikan Gateway Borough, the City of Ketchikan,
Wrangell, Metlakatla, and Thorne Bay, as well as the industry
representatives. Opposition was from the environmental group
represented on the Task Force by the Cities of Petersburg and Sitka
and a member purporting to represent Tenakee, Elfin Cove, Pelican,
Gustavus, Point Baker, and Point Alexander.
MR. SHERIDAN said they were asked by environmentalists if they
could restructure a timber industry based on value-added processing
and produce the same or more jobs on a much smaller timber base.
The answer is they should restructure timber industry around value-
added processing, but it will be possible only if they can find a
way to deal with low quality pulp logs which account for as much as
50% of timber stands on the Tongass. They can't simply log around
them taking only the best. To do that would leave a legacy of low
grade timber for their children. At the 300 MMBF harvest level
there would be sufficient volume to justify the establishment of a
minimum facility to process the low grade logs and residual chips.
MR. SHERIDAN thought that 300 MMBF could be cut and still preserve
the environment and so did the Forest Service according to their
draft plan of April 5, 1996 which called for a harvest of 297 MMBF.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked him to respond to the Forest Service's
concern that they need time to craft a plan that reflects the
changes and will be defensible from a legal challenge. MR.
SHERIDAN said the draft plan that came out in April was the product
of eight or nine years of work and had more scientific review than
he had seen any plan the Forest Service had done in the nation. He
said they certainly want a plan that is legally defensible, but he
has heard of no new science that has become available since April
5 last year when they issued the draft.
MR. BERNE MILLER, Executive Director, Southeast Conference, said
their mission is to help build strong economies, healthy
communities, and a quality environment and he supported SJR 24. In
the interests of sustaining a strong regional economy the
Conference has repeatedly urged the regional forester to select a
TLUMP alternative that does not economically or socially harm
Southeast Alaska's people and communities. Last August they
advocated that the Forest Service delay completion until defects in
their analysis had been corrected. That was before Ketchikan Pulp
announced their mill would be closed and there will be social and
economic hardship. Until the Forest Service establishes a
predictable harvest level through TLUMP it will be impossible to
project what kind of timber industry might exist in the region in
the future, let alone lay out a business plan for the extensive
restructuring obviously needed. For that reason they have changed
their position and urge the regional forester to come to a decision
based on what his forest supervisors have already placed before
him.
Number 307
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what his response was to the Task Force vote.
MR. MILLER said that you could count the votes or count the
communities that were represented which some people have done to
suggest that the result was different. SENATOR LINCOLN asked if
the 11 - 8 community vote was correct. MR. MILLER said that was
correct, but only three of the eight communities were represented.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked how the other communities got to vote. MR.
MILLER replied that they were supposedly represented. SENATOR
LINCOLN asked what size of community he meant when referring to a
"small community." MR. MILLER replied Gustavus, Pelican, and
communities on that order. He thought around 100 - 200 population.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD inserted that they were Gustavus, Pelican, Elfin
Cove, Tenakee Springs, Port Alexander, and Kupreanof.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the Southeast Conference ever entered into
a contract with the McDowell Group or got any feel for what the
economic impact might be. MR. MILLER replied that they never did.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if there was any socio-impact information
within the TLUMP. MR. MILLER answered not beyond what there was
before.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if he was involved in the conference when
everyone was voting. MR. MILLER said he wasn't present; that the
Southeast Conference was not named to that task force.
SENATOR MACKIE said there are many differing opinions and views by
location and by occupation in Southeast and it is hard to find a
balance.
MR. BUCK LINDEKUGEL, Conservation Director, Southeast Alaska
Conservation Council, said for the TLUMP to provide the stability
and assurance that everyone hopes for, it must insure that logging
occurs only at sustainable levels, that are consistent with
maintaining current and future demand for fish, wildlife, and the
other renewable forest resources that people depend on here in
Southeast. The minimum 300 MMBF logging level called for by this
resolution is unsustainable and an environmentally destructive
cutting level. SEACC opposes SJR 24. They believe the legislature
needs to support communities' efforts in making the transition to
a new high value added timber industry that produces the most jobs
for board foot cut.
The 300 MMBF is the preferred alternative identified in the latest
draft of the TLUMP and it places important areas to Southeast
Alaska communities, including Cleveland Peninsula, Poison Cove,
Upper Tenakee Inlet, Port Hooter, Honker Divide, at serious risk.
It also fails to provide for the short and long term protection
recommended by the agency's own scientific experts to provide for
fish habitat and for healthy and huntable wildlife populations. Of
the nearly 5,000 comments received on the draft plan this summer
from Alaskans, 57% concluded that the preferred alternative was too
biased towards logging and called for additional fish and wildlife
resource protection.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked for his qualifications. MR. LINDEKUGEL
replied that he is an attorney and is a member of the bar in
Alaska. He came to Alaska first as a commercial fisherman.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked him what qualifications he has to say what a
sustainable volume of harvest is. MR. LINDEKUGEL said the whole
theme behind the public planning process for forest plans and
specific timber sales is for the public to be informed by the
Forest Service when they prepare an EIS from a particular proposal.
He knows how to read and talk to the people who are the experts
providing the basis for his conclusions. He said the overwhelming
number of experts have suggested that the Forest Service's proposal
from this summer's draft was insufficient to provide for long term
protection of fish and wildlife on the Tongass. SENATOR TAYLOR
said all of the people working at the Forest Service have spent at
the minimum eight or nine years of interdepartmental studies on
fish, game, soil stability, types of vegetation, and their
conclusion last spring was 297 MMBF. He asked if he disagreed with
that and if he did, what experts was he relying on.
MR. LINDEKUGEL responded that he believes the Forest Service had
the information necessary to make a good decision and didn't follow
that information. It's conclusions were unsupported by the
information in its planning record. He relies upon the same public
documents that everyone else who commented on this plan relied on.
Number 463
SENATOR TAYLOR asked him to submit the record of the experts he is
relying upon.
SENATOR MACKIE asked if there was anything in this resolution that
was inconsistent with Governor Knowles Task Force's findings were.
MR. LINDEKUGEL responded that it is SEACC's position that it's
inappropriate for the legislature to be sticking the target level
at 300 MMBF as the State's position. He said the Tongass is a
national forest and there are a lot of interests at stake and it's
supposed to be managed for all those interests. He said he didn't
think the Task Force made any findings. He explained there were
two presentations made on December 12 in Ketchikan; one was by the
Alaska Forest Association and one was done by Dave Katz, a planner
for SEACC. Immediately after that the AFA managed to push for a
vote endorsing their models without any response to the information
SEACC had presented. He did not think that was the right way to
resolve controversial issues. They are trying to engage in a civil
debate on very complex issues.
SENATOR MACKIE commented that he has listened to both the timber
industry and the environmental industry and asked him how they can
have a viable timber industry in Southeast Alaska that can
contribute to the economy without harvesting timber and asked if he
didn't like the 300 number, what number did he like. MR.
LINDEKUGEL responded that SEACC had never taken a position against
logging on the National Forest. They know it has been a way of
life for a long time and they respect that. They think that long-
term contracts set up an economy that wasn't sustainable and can no
longer compete on the international market. Communities were
telling them that there are special areas they didn't want to see
clear cut for various reasons. They looked at the science that the
Forest Service's own experts were developing and came up with a
proposal that focused on small scale, locally owned businesses who
would be provided up to 100 MMBF of timber. That's been the
guarantee for some time and that is what they adopted.
SENATOR MACKIE asked him how there can be a sustainable timber
industry if you don't have a level of harvest that can actually
make it economically feasible. MR. LINDEKUGEL said they have been
talking to small operators on the Tongass and trying to identify
the type of processes they can work with. Steve Sealy proposed a
small saw mill and drying kiln facility in Tolstoy Bay and SEACC
came out publicly supporting that. SENATOR MACKIE said it became
noneconomic and so they moved the idea to Ketchikan. MR.
LINDEKUGEL said that's the kind of approach they want to do.
SENATOR MACKIE asked using the mill in Metlakatla, for instance,
was that too big to be a small operation that provides meaningful
jobs to communities. MR. LINDEKUGEL replied that they have the
timber supply for three years and he understands that that mill is
old technology. He said he would not accept supplying wood to a
mill that can't compete in today's market just because the mill is
there.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she appreciates having this dialogue and said
she wanted the time to reflect upon the poll they had done of 5,000
comments. MR. LINDEKUGEL explained that the Forest Service had a
comment time for their draft plan and there were perhaps 20,000
comments. The questions they were responding to were the forest
supervisor's proposal that their preferred alternative was an
acceptable way to manage the Tongass into the future.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if the 57% were all from Alaska. He answered
that was correct and they wanted less logging than the preferred
alternative.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt amendment #1. SENATOR LINCOLN
objected; then removed her objection, and amendment #1 was adopted.
TAPE 97-21, SIDE B
SENATOR LINCOLN asked on page 2, line 8 where it says the TLUMP EIS
indicates no viability problem if the term used was "no short term
problem." She wanted to know if that was the correct actual
terminology or just a synopsis. SENATOR MACKIE said he would have
to check to see if that is the actual wording.
SENATOR TAYLOR commented that the goshawk was never known to be in
this area, although it's one of the most widely ranging hawks in
the northern hemisphere. He said he knew of no species that is
threatened or has had its viability challenged or threatened on the
near term (which includes up to 15 years). SENATOR LINCOLN asked
what the EIS actually said, because what he said is different than
the information she got.
SENATOR LINCOLN moved to adopt amendment #2 deleting the term
"viability" and inserting "short term."
SENATOR TAYLOR objected. SENATOR MACKIE asked why she thought
there would be a long-term problem. SENATOR LINCOLN said she was
seeking accuracy and this is an inaccurate quote. SENATOR TAYLOR
said that the rest of the sentence said for 10 - 15 years which is
considered short term. He thought the amendment was redundant.
SENATOR LINCOLN responded that she didn't mind being redundant if
it was factual. SENATOR TAYLOR said to him viability meant if
there was a breeding population of that species left.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked for a hand vote. CHAIRMAN HALFORD, SENATORS
GREEN, TORGERSON, and TAYLOR voted no; SENATOR LINCOLN voted yes;
and the amendment failed.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSSJR 24(RES) with individual
recommendations. SENATOR LINCOLN said that Senator Murkowski
announced a couple of days ago the Forest Service has a commitment
for the completion of TLUMP by June 20 and thought the committee
might want to use June 20 in the resolution. SENATOR MACKIE said
he was willing to work with her on that issue. There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
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