Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/02/2010 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SJR21 | |
| SB92 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SJR 21 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 92 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SJR 21-CONST. AM: INCREASE NUMBER OF LEGISLATORS
8:59:47 AM
CHAIR MENARD announced that the first order of business to come
before the committee was SJR 21.
SENATOR OLSON, sponsor of SJR 21, said the resolution would put
a constitutional amendment before the voters in the 2010 general
election to increase the size of the legislature by four
senators and eight representatives. In the last 50 years, the
state population has more than doubled and state revenue has
changed significantly. He referred to Table 2, "Population
Trends for Election Districts in 2010," comparing each
district's current population with a forecast of how each
district's population will change if no action is taken.
9:02:07 AM
SENATOR MEYER joined the meeting.
SENATOR OLSON referred to the far right column labeled
"Difference from Average" on the first page of the table and
pointed out the significant negative numbers for Districts 1
through 5. He referred to the second page and the decrease in
population as it affects Northwest Alaska. Redistricting will be
dramatic after the 2010 census.
SENATOR OLSON said those involved in performing the
redistricting must also satisfy federal guidelines and the Voter
Rights Act of 1965 when dealing with large minority populations.
9:05:18 AM
SENATOR OLSON reiterated that it is not just Alaska's population
that has changed, but also its demography and financial
situation. The 1960 fiscal year had a budget of $104 million;
today the budget is $11 billion and the same number of
legislators decides where the money goes under pressure from a
90-day session. Some people in villages feel their needs are not
being addressed because there are so few legislators compared to
the population. He pointed out that a number of other states
have increased the size of their legislatures.
CHAIR MENARD asked Senator Olson to read the last paragraph of
his sponsor statement.
SENATOR OLSON referred to his sponsor statement, stating that
between 1960 and 2006, 29 states have changed the size of their
legislative body. For the nine states with small populations
similar to Alaska's - between 500,000 and 1,500,000 - the
average size of their legislative bodies is 134.
9:07:29 AM
DAVE GRAY, aide to Senator Hoffman, said that the urban areas
are also affected by population changes taking place in rural
areas. [Mr. Gray referred to large maps on the wall.] He pointed
out the significant districting changes that have taken place
since 1984.
9:10:19 AM
MR. GRAY said changes to large rural districts impact urban area
representation too, such as the MatSu Borough and Kenai.
CHAIR MENARD pointed out that Senator Kookesh's business card is
a good visual illustration for the huge size of his district:
his district is colored in on a map of Alaska and is half the
state.
MR. GRAY said that with the 2010 census underway this is a
timely issue. The approval of this legislation could impact the
reapportionment board's decisions as opposed to making
criticisms after redistricting. SJR 21 tries to be proactive in
divvying up the state equally. He pointed out that under this
legislation, the Bush districts would stay the same. New
representatives would probably be from urban areas.
9:12:46 AM
SENATOR KOOKESH asked if the overall impact of this resolution
would be the decrease from 15,000 to 13,000 people per House
seat.
SENATOR OLSON said some Alaska House districts are already at
13,000 and SJR 21 attempts to ensure equitable distribution
throughout the state related to the population.
SENATOR OLSON said he has the advantage of having only 54
communities in his district. Though it is large, he said he is
centrally located and can fly to his villages. But he noted that
Senator Kookesh's district encompasses 123 villages, and it's
difficult for a representative or senator to get around such a
district. Reducing the size of the districts would make it
easier for representatives to go to villages and talk to people
there face to face.
9:15:02 AM
SENATOR MEYER asked whether or not the objective of SJR 21 is to
decrease each House District to a population of 13,000. If not,
he asked what the objective of SJR 21 is.
SENATOR OLSON replied that state legislators are spread thin and
people in remote communities can easily feel disenfranchised. He
said he is not stuck on the numbers and increasing senators to
24 and representatives to 48 is a starting suggestion.
SENATOR MEYER said he does not know the magic number. His
district of 30,000 concentrated people is very manageable. Rural
areas have unique challenges and even with more senators, some
villages still might not have the opportunity to see theirs.
9:17:53 AM
MR. GRAY advised looking at the "Average Population" numbers at
the bottom of the table "Population Trend for Election Districts
in 2010." The average population for each district in 2000 was
about 15,000. The Department of Labor estimates that the average
population per district was almost 17,000 in 2008 and will be
17,309 in 2010. The population is increasing, but as shown in
column four, labeled "Difference from Average," some districts
will have to give up some population and other districts will
have to pick up some population to reach that average. The 48
House districts proposed by SJR 21 would create an average
district population of about 14,000, which is closer to the
average in 2000; rural districts would not have a big change in
their average population size.
SENATOR MEYER said that Table 5 from the National Council of
State Legislatures (NCSL) shows a lot of variation in district
populations. California has 451,000 people per House district;
New Hampshire has 3,000 and Alaska has 15,000. It is hard to
determine the right district population size and add to that the
facts that Alaska's large geographic area and small population
are unique.
9:20:45 AM
SENATOR KOOKESH commented that if Alaska keeps the same number
of districts, his district would have to go into the Wasilla
area for its population to increase enough and the Wasilla
district population to decrease enough. Such reapportioning
could be challenged by the Department of Justice and minority
voting area rules. Additional seats must be created for
Anchorage and Wasilla due to their growth or the whole state
will have to be changed.
CHAIR MENARD added that Representative Harris from Valdez comes
as far as Sutton in the MatSu Borough.
SENATOR PASKVAN said that 75 percent of the communities in
Alaska have populations of less than 1000. He said it is
important that these communities have a voice in both the Senate
and the House.
9:23:23 AM
CHAIR MENARD asked Senator Olson and Mr. Gray to speak to the
fiscal impact.
SENATOR OLSON said a person down on the Lower Yukon, in the
White Hampton area that has just been declared a federal
disaster area, has far different concerns than a person in
another part of his district that provides 80 to 90 percent of
the revenues for Alaska. The person up on the North Slope has
got his own concerns that are far different from a fishing-based
community or a whaling-based community. He said that Senator
Kookesh is stretched even thinner.
MR. GRAY said the average cost of offices and staff is fairly
straight forward in the fiscal note. He said that Pam Varni,
Executive Director of the Legislative Affairs Agency, could
provide a more detailed explanation of those costs.
SENATOR OLSON said there are two fiscal notes. One puts the
resolution on the general election ballot of 2010. The other
relates to implementing four more elected senators and eight
more elected representatives and starts at roughly $6 million in
fiscal year 2013.
9:26:36 AM
SENATOR FRENCH said SJR 21 is a good big-picture idea and he
supported it. He asked how the capitol building would be
redesigned to accommodate four senators and eight
representatives.
SENATOR OLSON said the new building could provide some
opportunity for space and pointed out that in the past offices
have been around the capitol, not in the capitol proper.
SENATOR FRENCH asked about the chambers.
SENATOR OLSON said things have changed over the years; the House
Speaker receptions are now where the original Senate Chambers
used to be.
CHAIR MENARD said if the committee passed SJR 21 out today, the
next committee could address the question of space with Ms.
Varni.
SENATOR FRENCH said that was satisfactory.
9:28:31 AM
CHAIR MENARD opened testimony for SJR 21.
GORDON HARRISON, former Executive Director of the Alaska
Redistricting Board, said that without this legislation the
ideal district population will become 17,500 and rural districts
would increase geographically because most are 3,000 to 4,000
people below this. The importance of SJR 21 is that it provides
effective representation for rural areas which are getting so
big that legislators do not know their constituents, never have
a chance to talk to them, and do not know what their issues are.
Members of rural communities do not know how to vote for people
who are, in some cases, from another world. Campaigning is
difficult and expensive; so recruiting candidates is difficult.
This is an important public policy issue of fair, reasonable
representation for rural areas. Without an increase in the
number of seats, rural districts will be huge or disappear.
9:31:28 AM
SENATOR KOOKESH said that to get to Lime Village in his
district, he has to fly from Angoon to Juneau, Juneau to
Anchorage, Anchorage to Fairbanks, Fairbanks to Aniak, and Aniak
to Lime Village where he could then visit five villages in that
area by small airplane. The cost, just from Angoon to Juneau one
way is $125.
CHAIR MENARD noted that Margaret Walsh from the Department of
Law was available for questions.
SENATOR FRENCH asked if Mr. Harrison would comment on the
implications of the US Voting Rights Act of 1965 on Alaska's
districts.
MR. HARRISON explained that Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act
applies to Alaska and everything regarding elections, including
redistricting, is scrutinized by the Justice Department. The
standard violation in Section 5 is retrogression, meaning
redistricting results in fewer minority districts. Without SJR
21, Mr. Harrison said he did not see how retrogression can be
avoided. He said the following three of the nine effective
Native majority districts could be lost: House districts 5 and 6
and Senate district C.
9:34:51 AM
MR. HARRISON suggested that the Justice Department or federal
courts may not prohibit this retrogression because the
demographics are so strong. He said his layman's view is that if
the redistricting plan follows traditional redistricting
principles and retrogression is shown to be unavoidable and
minimal, the Voting Rights Act will not prevent the loss of
these Native districts.
SENATOR MEYER said he understands that SJR 21 is not primarily
concerned about the population of each district, but rather with
keeping districts more compact so legislators do not have to
travel hundreds of miles to see their constituents. To achieve
that, each district population must be reduced and more house
and senate districts would be created in the highly populated
areas.
MR. HARRISON said that the distribution of power between rural
and urban areas is population based and would stay the same. He
agreed that all new districts would go to the Railbelt -
Anchorage, Fairbanks, Matsu and the Kenai Peninsula - not to
rural areas. However, additional districts would allow rural
areas to hold on to what they have.
9:37:11 AM
CHAIR MENARD restated Senator French's earlier question about
accommodating more legislators in the chambers and in the
Capitol building.
PAM VARNI, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs Agency (LAA),
said that the House and Senate Chambers could both utilize the
existing extra desk for the presiding officer who always sits at
the front. Without a capital appropriation to build another
building or expand, creativity and the cooperation of existing
legislators would be required. She noted that the size of the
different offices in the capitol has been increased over the
years. She suggested that the Governor and Lieutenant Governor
could be asked if they would consider moving to the State Office
Building, freeing up the third floor. The LAA would look at
floor plans and decide how to accommodate more legislators as
economically as possible. She noted that the fiscal note of $1.5
million for remodeling was a conservative figure.
9:40:37 AM
CHAIR MENARD closed public testimony.
9:41:54 AM
At Ease.
9:42:09 AM
CHAIR MENARD called the meeting back to order at 9:42.
SENATOR MEYER moved to report SJR 21 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There
being no objection, the motion carried.
9:42:48 AM
At Ease
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