Legislature(2019 - 2020)BARNES 124
04/23/2019 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR14 | |
| SB54 | |
| SJR11 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HJR 14 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 54 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SJR 11 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SJR 11-U.S.-CANADA RAILROAD PRESIDENTIAL PERMIT
1:27:44 PM
CO-CHAIR WOOL announced that the final order of business would
be CS FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 11(TRA), Urging the United
States to issue a Presidential permit authorizing a railroad
crossing of the Alaska-Canada border from state land into Yukon,
Canada; and supporting cooperation between the United States and
Canada to establish a public-private partnership for
construction of a railroad from Alberta, Canada, to the state
that would connect the Alaska Railroad to the North American
railroad system.
1:28:15 PM
AIMEE BUSHNELL, Staff, Senator Shelley Hughes, Alaska State
Legislature, presented CSSJR 11(TRA) on behalf of Senator
Hughes, prime sponsor. She prefaced her remarks by specifying
that CSSJR 11(TRA) is a "railroad resolution" different from a
railroad resolution being sponsored by Representative Talerico.
She said CSSJR 11(TRA) would urge the federal government to
issue a presidential permit to allow a railroad to cross from
Canada into Alaska. She explained that presidential permits are
necessary to allow infrastructure between the U.S. and
neighboring countries. She indicated that the impetus for CSSJR
11(TRA) was the approach of two companies in Canada to the
Senate Transportation Standing Committee. The presidential
permit is necessary in order for those companies to convince
their investors that such a project is feasible. She clarified
that CSSJR 11(TRA) "is not tied to either company." Ms.
Bushnell stated that the intent of CSSJR 11(TRA) is "to open the
economic opportunities for Alaska and allow commerce to come
in." She said the rail line would connect to the North American
Rail System. She indicated that [Congress] has sought to make
this connection for over 100 years. She concluded that CSSJR
11(TRA) would be "that next step" [to securing the presidential
permit].
1:30:38 PM
MS. BUSHNELL, in response to a question from Co-Chair Wool, said
the sponsor of CSSJR 11(TRA) thought it best to allow the
aforementioned companies to come forward to speak rather than
speaking on their behalf.
CO-CHAIR WOOL noted that would occur at the next hearing on
CSSJR 11(TRA).
1:31:08 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY observed that the proposed joint resolution
includes language about the presidential permit and a
requirement to check with indigenous citizens. She expressed
her appreciation of CSSJR 11(TRA).
1:31:38 PM
CO-CHAIR WOOL asked what else would be required other than a
presidential permit.
MS. BUSHNELL responded that she would have to get back to Co-
Chair Wool with an answer. She said the companies in Canada
would be concerned with crossing the land of indigenous people.
1:32:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RASMUSSEN expressed interest in seeing a map of
possible routes for a rail line.
MS. BUSHNELL said she could procure "a map of what both
companies envisioned."
CO-CHAIR WOOL related he would like visual aids brought to the
committee by the next hearing of CSSJR 11(TRA).
MS. BUSHNELL, in response to a query from Co-Chair Wool, related
that one of the companies addresses a route from Alberta to
Alaska ("A2A"), while the other proposes "Generating for Seven
Generations" ("G7G"). She said both plans would start in Fort
McMurray in Canada and come through Delta Junction, directly
across the border from Canada. The G7G plan would go from Delta
Junction to [Valdez], [following] the Trans-Alaska Pipeline
route. The A2A plans on going up to Fairbanks and "taking the
rail line down."
1:34:24 PM
SENATOR SHELLEY HUGHES, Alaska State Legislature, as prime
sponsor of CSSJR 11(TRA), stated that the project would not
require a funding allocation from the State of Alaska. She said
Congress "granted us the authority to have this rail since
1914." She indicated that of the up to 1,000 miles allowable,
"we only have 500 right now." She added, "This would be an
added 250." She posited that at the time of westward expansion,
the event of most significance was the connection of the rail
line. She said, "The product that would be shipped pencils out
for the business interests that have looked at it." She said
the rail could benefit numerous ports in Alaska.
SENATOR HUGHES, in response to Co-Chair Wool, confirmed that $17
billion is the estimated cost of the overall project; it would
come from private investment. She said the applicable companies
have had conversations with indigenous peoples and have been
good at "getting their social license." Those conversations
will continue.
1:37:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RASMUSSEN sought to confirm that the project
could add infrastructure for those communities that do not
presently have connectivity to the rest of the state.
SENATOR HUGHES pointed out that there would be infrastructure
added to come into Delta Junction, then there are roads from
Delta Junction to Fairbanks and rail out of Fairbanks. She
added, "There would be some new areas where it would be
stretched across."
REPRESENTATIVE RASMUSSEN asked, "So, it would connect in at
Fairbanks?"
SENATOR HUGHES answered yes. She said the other plan would be
"to feed the bitumen, liquify it, and put it into TAPS [the
Trans-Alaska Pipeline System]." She indicated that the rail
line includes a substance much like children's play sand, which
makes cleanup of any spilled substances easier, because "it
doesn't seep into the ground." She said there would be "well-
made containers." She pointed out that currently the Alaska
Railroad Corporation is certified to carry diesel, which is a
more volatile substance.
REPRESENTATIVE RASMUSSEN inquired if this might develop into a
passenger line between Canada and Alaska.
SENATOR HUGHES answered that the initial development is intended
for the movement of products; however, there could be expansion
into tourist travel. In that event, she said the same border
crossing requirements used at custom stations along roadways
would apply to railway border crossings. Senator Hughes, in
response to a follow-up question, deferred to Tim Sullivan to
explain how [a transition from cargo to passenger carrier] could
work.
1:41:20 PM
TIM SULLIVAN, JR., Director of External Affairs, Alaska Railroad
Corporation, proffered that conversations are still ongoing to
figure out how such a transition could work.
1:41:41 PM
CO-CHAIR STUTES asked for confirmation that the intent of the
rail line is to transport fuel.
SENATOR HUGHES answered that what she is calling "the anchor
tenet" is bitumen. She said, "Anything else on top of that is
icing on the cake." She noted that shipping ports from Alaska
to Asia are closer than shipping from other ports.
1:43:23 PM
CO-CHAIR WOOL noted that bitumen is also referred to as "tar
sands." He summarized that the bitumen would be transported via
rail into Alaska, to an Alaska port, then exported somewhere
else for refinement.
SENATOR HUGHES confirmed that is correct.
CO-CHAIR WOOL inquired whether a line starting in Alberta would
also connect to the Lower 48.
SENATOR HUGHES answered that "Alberta is connected to the Lower
48." She said she is not certain, but "there may be something
coming from different directions in Alberta."
1:44:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked how many miles would be covered with
the estimated cost of $17 billion.
SENATOR HUGHES answered that from Alberta to the border of
Alaska is 1,200 miles, and from the Alaska border to Fairbanks
is 250 miles. In response to a follow-up question, she
confirmed the cost would cover the entire distance.
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN remarked that $17 billion sounds low.
1:45:10 PM
MR. SULLIVAN stated that $17 billion is a rough estimate. The
typical cost for building rail line ranges between $8 to $10
million per mile; the $17 billion estimate is derived based on
$10 million per mile.
1:45:48 PM
SENATOR HUGHES offered her understanding that if the
presidential permit is granted and all goes as planned, the rail
could be installed by 2022.
CO-CHAIR WOOL noted that [Representative Talerico] has proposed
legislation to get a train from Fairbanks to Delta, and he
suggested the two could be done at the same time.
1:47:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND related an anecdote of traveling from
Anchorage to Haines and described seeing Walmart and Sam's Club
trucks heading south. She found out that the trucks had
originated from Anchorage. At that time, West Coast ports were
congested, and it was faster for those companies to send their
materials overland from the port in Anchorage to the Midwest
markets. She said this eye-opening occurrence took place about
10 years ago.
[CSSJR 11(TRA) was held over.]