Legislature(2013 - 2014)BUTROVICH 205
03/05/2014 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SCR16 | |
| SB77 | |
| Chinook Salmon Research Initiative Overview & Update | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 77 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | SCR 16 | ||
SCR 16-REQ GOV TO INVESTIGATE COAL RESOURCES
3:32:01 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced SCR 16 to be up for consideration.
3:32:14 PM
SENATOR PETE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska,
sponsor of SCR 16, said he wanted an amendment to be offered.
3:32:55 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL moved Amendment 1 (A.2).
28-LS1519\A.2
Nauman
2/28/14
AMENDMENT 1
OFFERED IN THE SENATE
Page 2, line 5, following "investigate":
Insert ", without regard to federal permits or
restrictions,"
SENATOR FAIRCLOUGH objected for discussion purposes.
3:33:21 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL explained that this amendment makes a simple
change on page 2, line 5, by inserting the above wording.
3:33:49 PM
SENATOR FAIRCLOUGH asked him to explain the intent.
SENATOR KELLY responded that this resolution is about "the grave
danger we find ourselves in in this state" with regard to
energy. He recalled what Putin did in the Ukraine,
Czechoslovakia in 1938, and Poland in 1939. Events can change on
a dime. Who would have thought on September 11 you would find
that the whole world had changed in an instant when two planes
crashed into the Towers?
Things like that will happen and our energy prices will go
through the roof and we are already paying prices in some
communities that just simply aren't sustainable. He said,
"Alaska is facing an energy poverty; it's going to wipe us out."
He said this resolution is about defying the federal government,
because for years we've heard people say just go drill in ANWR.
Well, we can't; it's federal ground and if you did find some
company that wanted to go out there and take the risk of a fine
or tax consequences, then they have to cross federal land and
rivers, and there are thousands of problems between there and
delivering the oil in Valdez.
3:36:07 PM
SENATOR KELLY said he envisions investigating the possibility of
building a coal power plant with state funds on state land to
federal specifications but without regard to federal permits.
The reason being that so often the state meets federal
specifications and then some judge in San Francisco says,
"Sorry, you didn't say 'Mother, May I?'"
SENATOR KELLY said we are people of the rule of law; but that
isn't going to matter. The nuances of federal regulations are
not going to matter when we simply can't afford to turn our
lights or our furnaces on because the cost of energy has gone
through the roof. So, he wanted the Governor and the
Administration to investigate and the state to build a power
plant on state land and when it's built we turn it on.
3:37:26 PM
SENATOR FAIRCLOUGH asked if he was asking for a process: for the
Governor to work to identify somewhere on state land a coal
fired plant. What she objected to was using the rule of law.
SENATOR KELLY replied that the purpose of building a coal fired
plant on state land is we don't need permission from the feds to
do that on state land. If we build it on state land, the
question is whether you turn it on or not. He understood that
this was a little bit of dreaming, but the fact is we are going
to need to dream a little bit big to protect the generations of
the future. Something is going to come that is going change
energy prices once again and the last time it crippled Alaskans.
This is investigating a process; it's not building a power
plant. A lot more discussion is needed than a concurrent
resolution.
3:39:07 PM
SENATOR DYSON said he was a great enthusiast for the use of
Alaska's coal. He pointed out on page 2, line 5, it says to
investigate development of "a large coal power plant," and in
electric generation always has the argument about distribution
as opposed to centralization, and power distribution over long
distances is difficult. He asked if Senator Kelly was specifying
doing this in only one location.
SENATOR KELLY replied that the resolution identifies some places
in the state and one is the coal reserves up by Kotzebue. The
point is that Alaskan reserves are about half of the United
States' reserves and it could provide power for 100 years.
SENATOR DYSON corrected that it could power all of North America
for 300 years.
SENATOR KELLY said it's low sulphur coal and in fact the coal
near Fairbanks, which isn't the best, is equivalent to the coal
that meets the standard of the 1990 Clean Air Act. The question
is does it envision other places; and that is a policy decision
for the Governor's group.
SENATOR DYSON asked if it was fair to say on the record that his
intention was to not limit this to "a" very large plant, but
concept to be used wherever it makes sense.
SENATOR KELLY answered that was correct. Senator Dyson had
mentioned DC power and even though it is a bit of a dream right
now, but technology is moving quickly and by the time this is
put together, we could hope to power rural Alaska from a
gigawatt plant in MatSu or Fairbanks or Kotzebue, for that
matter, from coal.
SENATOR MICCICHE said a lot of folks in his district were upset
at doing another a study. But the further resolve says for
$75,000 worth of study we get to understand: the potential cost
of coal plants from 200 megawatts to 2 gigawatts, the cost of a
kilowatt of a coal generated energy in comparison to other
sources, the technological potential for transmission, and how a
large mine coal plant might help balance future needs of the
state with hydro and other types. He wanted to know the answers
to that question. This is not an anti-environmental thing. There
is a huge supply of potential coal energy lying right here and
we should understand whether or not they can be used
responsibly.
3:43:38 PM
SENATOR FAIRCLOUGH removed her objection [therefore Amendment 1
was adopted] and offered conceptual Amendment 2 on page 2, line
5, after the word "development of" delete "a" and after "large
coal power plant" insert the letter "s" on the word "plant". So
it would then read:
Be it resolved that the Alaska State Legislature
respectfully requests the Governor to investigate
without regard to federal permits or restrictions the
development of large coal power plants and associated
electrical grid to provide energy to residents of the
state to heat their homes and keep their lights on.
CHAIR GIESSEL objected for discussion purposes.
SENATOR FAIRCLOUGH responded that the purpose was to address
Senator Dyson's thought and what she heard from the sponsor was
his concurrence that we could look at more than one.
SENATOR KELLY said he had no objection to that language.
3:45:07 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL removed her objection and conceptual Amendment 2
was adopted. She pointed out that the Emma Creek Coal Project
Plan was in their packets as well as a recent "Energy and
Economic Impacts of Coal in Interior Alaska," a McDowell Group
report.
3:45:42 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL noted opposition to coal comments during previous
committee testimony: someone said that climate change is settled
and there was talk about CO, and she included the response to
2
that in a report called "The Social Cost of Coal." She said
people forget that CO is plant food and the optimal level for
2
plant growth is 1200 parts per million. Presently, we're at 400
parts per million. So, for each little increment of CO we are
2
actually reaping positive results in food production for people
to live here, and over the last 100 years plant growth has
increased by 60 percent.
CHAIR GIESSEL said certainly, climate has changed multiple times
over the centuries. We had an ice age 12,000 years ago, a lesser
ice age from 1560 to 1820, but we also had the medieval warming
period and that's never talked about. That was from 1200 to 1410
A.D. and during this time Norwegians came to Greenland, found it
to be such a rich environment that they farmed and lived there
for a couple hundred years. The temperature then was 2-3 degrees
Centigrade above the today's baseline.
She added that Henry's Law states that at any given temperature
the amount of gas dissolved in solution is directly proportional
to the pressure of the gas in the air above the solution (the
ocean and CO. As CO increases in the atmosphere, Henry's Law
2)2
states, and has proven, that the amount of CO in the ocean also
2
increases. So, Chair Giessel concluded that there is an
"automatic balancing system in our environment."
CHAIR GIESSEL said there is a lot of advocacy for green and
alternative energy such as wind turbines, but 3-5 tons of copper
is in every wind turbine. That is two solid Chevy Suburbans. So,
to say that coal will be the demise of the humane race is just
exaggeration.
3:49:13 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said a fascinating book to read was "The
History of Weather."
SENATOR DYSON agreed that there was a lot of misinformation in
the public. He could defend a pretty cogent argument that the
Industrial Revolution could not have gone forward without coal
and that it saved the forests of Europe. The energy just wasn't
available then. When you think about all the ills that went
along with it, virtually all the things we enjoy in modern life
- the machines and efficiencies, and medical science - power has
enabled the provisions of clean water and a way of treating
waste. "If you think pollution in cities is bad from
automobiles, you should have seen or heard about what it was
like with horses." He could also make a pretty good case that
the oil industry saved the whales, because before the oil
industry, sperm whale oil was a premier lubricant.
3:52:26 PM
SENATOR DYSON moved to report SCR 16, version \A as amended,
from committee to the next committee of referral with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There were no
objections and CSSCR 16(RES) passed from the Senate Resources
Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SCR 16 Amendment A.2.pdf |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SCR 16 |
| SCR 16 Supp Document The Social Costs of Carbon.pdf |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SCR 16 |
| SB 77 vs A.pdf |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SB 77 |
| SB 77 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SB 77 |
| SB 77 Fiscal Note.pdf |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SB 77 |
| SB 77 Supp Letter TedSpraker 20140204.pdf |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SB 77 |
| SB 77 Amendment A.2.PDF |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SB 77 |
| SB 77 Amendment A.3.PDF |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SB 77 |
| SB 77 Supp Document Ted Spraker 20140304.PDF |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |
SB 77 |
| SRES CSRI Overivew Presentation 20130305.pdf |
SRES 3/5/2014 3:30:00 PM |