04/16/2024 01:30 PM Senate COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS

        SCR 13-ART. II, SEC. 16, CONST:AFFIRM COMPLIANCE                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:51:23 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   DUNBAR  reconvened   the   meeting   and  announced   the                                                               
consideration of SENATE CONCURRENT  RESOLUTION NO. 13 Relating to                                                               
the  procedure that  the  Thirty-Third  Alaska State  Legislature                                                               
will use to reconsider bills and items vetoed by the governor.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
This is the second hearing of  SCR 13 in the Senate Community and                                                               
Regional Affairs Standing Committee. The  intention is to look to                                                               
the  will of  the  committee  to report  the  resolution out.  He                                                               
invited  Senator Claman  to put  himself on  the record  and make                                                               
closing remarks.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:51:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN  said he would  answer questions if there  were any.                                                               
He encouraged the committee to move forward with SCR 13.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:52:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BJORKMAN referenced SCR  13 and discussions regarding its                                                               
interpretation,  highlighting that  it  appears  to deviate  from                                                               
decades of legislative practice on  when the legislature meets to                                                               
address  veto overrides,  especially for  budget item  vetoes. He                                                               
questioned  why previous  testimony stressed  the necessity  of a                                                               
joint session  and vote  after the first  year of  a legislature,                                                               
yet there  seems to be no  similar urgency or requirement  in odd                                                               
years  unless   a  special  session   is  called.   He  expressed                                                               
difficulty  understanding the  consistency  between the  mandated                                                               
joint session  for budget  veto overrides in  even years  and the                                                               
more discretionary  approach in odd years,  seeking clarification                                                               
on this discrepancy.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:53:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  CLAMAN replied  that he  believed the  question had  two                                                               
parts.   First,   he   addressed  what   occurred   between   the                                                               
Constitutional Convention  and current practice, noting  that the                                                               
convention  minutes,  clearly  show  that  the  drafters  of  the                                                               
Constitution and  those who adopted  the amendment  including the                                                               
term "immediately"  understood it  to mean the  legislature would                                                               
meet promptly. He added that  in the early legislatures, when the                                                               
first  veto occurred,  the rules  committee  met, conferred,  and                                                               
agreed  they   needed  to  act   quickly,  consistent   with  the                                                               
"immediately"  language  in  the   Constitution.  At  some  point                                                               
thereafter  legislators  stopping  reading the  language  of  the                                                               
Constitution  consistently. After  the early  legislatures, there                                                               
was  a  time when  [Uniform]  Rule  51  was followed  instead  of                                                               
[Uniform] Rule 45,  even though it is standard  legal analysis to                                                               
apply the more  specific rule to the more  specific situation. He                                                               
stated  he did  not know  why the  legislators chose  not to  pay                                                               
attention to the language of  the Constitution or follow the more                                                               
specific Rule 45.  He stated art II, sec. 16  of the Constitution                                                               
of  the State  of Alaska  was amended  in the  1970's to  add the                                                               
five-day  period for  clarity.  The amendment  met no  meaningful                                                               
opposition.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:55:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  CLAMAN  stated  his  belief  that  the  second  question                                                               
concerns  why  there  is  a   differing  perspective  on  meeting                                                               
"immediately" versus  meeting within five days  between the first                                                               
regular  session and  the second  regular  session. He  clarified                                                               
that a veto alone does not  trigger a special session; either the                                                               
governor  must call  a session,  or the  legislature must  gather                                                               
enough votes to  convene. Without a special session,  there is no                                                               
event  that  brings  the  legislature together  to  take  up  the                                                               
reconsideration.  The   difference  between  the   first  regular                                                               
session and the  second regular session is  that legislature does                                                               
not meet  again unless  there is  a special  session. When  a new                                                               
legislature  is  elected  it  does  not  have  the  authority  to                                                               
reconsider the  actions of the  prior legislature.  He emphasized                                                               
the  constitutional language  requiring action  within five  days                                                               
when  the  legislature  reconvenes  but  pointed  out  that  this                                                               
applies  only  when the  legislature  is  already meeting  again,                                                               
either in regular or special session.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:58:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BJORKMAN expressed interest  in how this legislative body                                                               
and  process, after  decades, is  now  seeking to  adopt a  novel                                                               
interpretation  of   how  veto   overrides  are   considered.  He                                                               
suggested  it  would  make  more  sense  to  have  provisions  in                                                               
practice,  if  the  legislature  were  forced  to  consider  veto                                                               
overrides,  that would  implore the  legislature to  consider all                                                               
items  vetoed. However,  he noted  that earlier  in the  session,                                                               
some members supported  a practice of convening  in joint session                                                               
and gaveling  out without addressing or  discussing vetoed items,                                                               
which  he argued  does not  align with  public expectations  or a                                                               
desirable outcome.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:59:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BJORKMAN emphasized that  the legislature should have the                                                               
ability to call itself into  joint session to consider vetoes and                                                               
questioned the  inconsistency of  having a structured  process in                                                               
even years  but effectively  no process in  odd years.  He stated                                                               
that for SJR  13 to gain this  support, substantial clarification                                                               
is  needed on  why past  legislatures deviated  from the  process                                                               
outlined in earlier analysis. He  concluded by asserting that the                                                               
legislature must adopt a consistent  practice. He opined that the                                                               
current inconsistency  is unlikely  to meet  public expectations.                                                               
Therefore, he could not support SJR 13.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:01:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL  commented that,  as a former  presiding officer,                                                               
she  observed that  for the  legislature  to call  itself into  a                                                               
special  sessionnecessary  to  override a  vetoa  very  high vote                                                               
count is required. She noted  that Uniform Rules specify the vote                                                               
threshold needed to call a special session.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:01:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CLAMAN  stated  his  recollection  that  the  Constitution                                                               
requires a  two-thirds vote from  each body to convene  a special                                                               
session.   He   noted  that   Uniform   Rules   align  with   the                                                               
Constitution, which takes precedence.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:02:23 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL stated  that a two-thirds vote  is challenging to                                                               
reach.  She explained  that  as a  former  presiding officer  she                                                               
desired  to  call  [a  special session  of  the  legislature]  to                                                               
override some  vetoes following  a [first  session of  a two-year                                                               
legislature] and in  collaboration with the Speaker  of the House                                                               
but could not achieve the  required votes. She questioned how the                                                               
legislature could be  required to reach the number  [of votes] to                                                               
call a [special session]. She  said that negotiating the votes to                                                               
call a special session often  necessitates constraining the scope                                                               
of items to override. She  said this is the practical application                                                               
of what might  be sterilely viewed as an  inadequate process. She                                                               
emphasized that  it is  extremely hard to  get the  required vote                                                               
count to call a special session.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:03:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNBAR  opined that Senator Bjorkman  raised two additional                                                               
points of  interest. First,  how it  could be that  a law  was in                                                               
place  all  along, but  legislators  were  not following  it.  He                                                               
provided  an example  of a  likely unconstitutional  statute that                                                               
was  being followed  until  a recent  lawsuit  challenged it.  He                                                               
stated that laws are sometimes  interpreted incorrectly and found                                                               
the  analysis done  by Ms.  Orlansky persuasive,  indicating that                                                               
two rules  existed and the  [less specific] one was  followed. He                                                               
said the  second point concerned the  odd versus even years  of a                                                               
legislature and that  every two years there is  a new legislature                                                               
Each   legislature   is   legally   a   separate   entity   under                                                               
constitutional law even  though it may appear to a  lay person to                                                               
be  the  same.   A  prior  legislature  cannot   force  the  next                                                               
legislature  to take  up a  matter.  He opined  that although  it                                                               
feels strange, it  is the correct legal  interpretation under the                                                               
constitution. He  stated he supports  SJR 13 and realized  he did                                                               
not think deeply about the issue until it was raised.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:06:16 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNBAR solicited the will of the committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:06:17 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL moved  to report SCR 13,  work order 33-LS1543\B,                                                               
from committee with individual  recommendations and attached zero                                                               
fiscal note(s).                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:06:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BJORKMAN objected.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:06:36 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DUNBAR asked for a roll call vote.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
A roll call  vote was taken. Senators  Giessel, Gray-Jackson, and                                                               
Dunbar  voted in  favor of  reporting SCR  13 from  committee and                                                               
Senator Bjorkman voted against it. The vote was 3:1.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DUNBAR  announced that SCR  13 was reported  from committee                                                               
on a vote of 3 yeas and 1 nays.