Legislature(2003 - 2004)
04/16/2004 01:38 PM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 376-SUBPOENA POWER: PUB ASS'TNCE & PERM FUND
The committee took up SB 376.
MR. JIM DALMAN, Chief of Program Integrity and Analysis,
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS), explained that
when investigating allegations of welfare fraud, the department
could not always obtain needed information from various sources
even though a release of information is used. DHSS hopes the
subpoena would allow information to be more readily collected.
It provides a helpful tool to speed up the procurement of
information from institutions or individuals to help validate
the circumstances of a given allegation and to obtain
information. This power is granted to other state agencies and
is used as an administrative tool.
CHAIR DYSON asked the administration's position on amending SB
376 to include the Permanent Fund Dividend Division.
MR. DALMAN responded he didn't see this as a problem, and would
probably help with their investigations.
CHAIR DYSON said he is pleased the administration is pursuing
fraud in all areas.
MR. ANTHONY LOMBARDO, Director, Division of Public Assistance
(DPA), noted there was no objection to having the PFD Division
use this as a tool to pursue fraud.
MR. JAY MARLEY, Manager, Fraud Control Unit, said he was
available to answer questions, and commented this was a valuable
tool to prosecute and investigate fraud.
CHAIR DYSON said he would enjoy seeing published quarterly
results of fraud control, as he was interested in who the
perpetrators are, how easy it is to get convictions, what the
sentences are, and how often there is success in getting
restitution.
SENATOR GUESS said it is important to look at "why the fraud
happens," noting she has constituents who are confused by the
paperwork. She referred to the fiscal note's positive/negative
aspect, and asked, "Are they both savings, or is there an actual
cost?"
MR. MORLEY responded two types of figures are addressed when
someone has gotten benefits illegitimately. The first is the
actual recovery of benefits, the paying of benefits one wasn't
entitled to. Second, disqualification for further benefits
results in program savings. There are program savings, due to
money coming back into the agency, and there are program savings
resulting from not paying the benefit to those clients.
SENATOR GUESS suggested a review of the fiscal notes, as they
don't necessarily mesh with that explanation; it looks like
there is a cost, and it should be a savings.
CHAIR DYSON commented he would pay attention to this in the
Senate Finance hearing.
MR. DALMAN said there is some cost associated with the activity
and there is an offset in savings coming from recovery. The
recoveries are expected to be offset by expenditures on the
other side of the program. There is a commensurate reduction in
the benefit levels of other programs, based on the anticipated
increases in recovery. There is the positive recovery of a
benefit, a small increment, and also a reduction in the
authority in the other programs, an expenditure the department
wouldn't, therefore, be making; he said he would confirm this.
MS. SHARON BARTON, Director, Permanent Fund Dividend Division,
said its fraud unit is being re-built, and the desire is to get
these essential tools and authorities in place because although
the division can go to court for subpoena power, that process is
cumbersome. She expressed interest in amending SB 376, using
the same language as DPA. She reported the governor's liaison
office is pleased for this opportunity, and DPA sees no problem
with the PFD Division joining this.
SENATOR BETTYE DAVIS questioned whether there would need to be a
title change.
CHAIR DYSON confirmed this was correct. He said conceptual
amendment [Amendment 1] adds the PFD Division to the title on
line 1, and the content change would be in Section 2.
SENATOR DAVIS moved to adopt Amendment 1.
CHAIR DYSON clarified this includes a new Section 2, as
indicated by a document presented to the HES committee from the
PFD Division, dated 4/14/04, accordingly numbered at the upper
right side of the page as T-200, P.02, F-970.
CHAIR DYSON asked if there was any objection to Amendment 1.
Seeing none, it was adopted.
SENATOR GUESS recommended that that SB 376 be referred to Senate
Judiciary since it deals with subpoena powers. She also
suggested that the title be fairly tight, since PFD was being
added to the title.
CHAIR DYSON said he would mention this to the Senate President.
SENATOR DAVIS moved to report CSSB 376(HES) out of committee
with [individual recommendations] and attached fiscal notes.
CHAIR DYSON asked if there was any objection. Seeing and
hearing none, it was so ordered.
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