Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/17/1998 01:40 PM Senate JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 331 - PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR LICENSING
MS. BETH HAGEVIG, staff to SENATOR GARY WILKEN, presented SB 331,
a bill to license professional counselors. MS. HAGEVIG reported the
bill broadens the career options of counselors, increases
counselors' ability to keep client information confidential and
allows counselors to be covered under many employee assistance
programs (EAPs). MS. HAGEVIG said the bill is good for Alaska
mental health consumers since it establishes minimum educational
and experiential requirements and will partially eliminate the
"buyer beware" situation that now exists. She said the bill also
institutes grievance procedures and provides legal recourse for
clients who feel they have been wronged. MS. HAGEVIG said the bill
has the support of numerous professional organizations.
MS. ANNE HENRY, a professional counselor, said Alaska is one of
only six states that do not currently license professional
counselors. In one of those states, legislation is pending to do
so, and similar legislation is being debated at the federal level.
MS. HENRY said the bill is a title restriction and not a license
restriction bill; if people do not want to get the license they are
not forced to, they are simply disallowed from calling themselves
licensed professional counselors.
MS. HENRY said the bill has similar educational requirements as
those that exist in other states and allows professional counselors
to become an integral part of available mental health services. She
urged the committee's support for the bill.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR noted that SENATOR WILKEN, Pamela Watts and Robert
Lane have corresponded regarding this issue and are concerned there
are insufficient course work requirements to help prepare
professional counselors to treat serious mental disorders of to
administer complex psychological testing measures.
MR. GARY CLEMENT, a mental health clinician for the Juneau Mental
Health clinic, said he works in an emergency room and administers
psychotherapy every day. MR. CLEMENT said he does not do testing
other than that for which he has been trained in the field of
substance abuse. MR. CLEMENT said he does not believe testing is
the issue here, and all mental health providers are trained to deal
with serious mental illnesses.
MS. HENRY added that the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, (DSM
IV) is used by virtually every mental health care provider and sets
the standards for any type of mental health disorder. The manual
standardizes the terminology and criteria used in diagnosis. MS.
HENRY said this bill requires either a MA or a Ph.D. from an
accredited program as well as practical experience and 2,000 hours
of supervised work.
MS. HAGEVIG noted that there is a limitation of practice in the
bill, allowing a person to provide only those services which he or
she has been appropriately trained to perform.
Number 231
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR mentioned there had also been concern expressed
about the lack of specific educational course work requirements.
MS. HAGEVIG said the bill is fairly consistent with other statutes
in place for social workers and associate psychologists. She said
the degree requirement is in the bill, but the course work for that
degree is not specified.
MS. HENRY indicated that the organizations that accredit these
programs are national organizations that are very particular in the
programs they accredit.
SENATOR PARNELL asked about the confidentiality provision and what
it is meant to protect.
Number 261
MS. HENRY replied that rule 504 is fairly standard and mandates the
confidentiality of information provided to a counselor unless there
is a threat of harm to the client themselves or to others.
MS. HAGEVIG said much of the language in this bill was borrowed
from the legislation enabling the licensure of marriage and family
therapists. SENATOR PARNELL noted that those counselors who are not
licenced must divulge information if they are subpoenaed. MS. HENRY
replied this was correct and specified that the privilege belongs
to the client and can be waived if they so desire.
Number 306
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said the file indicates there is concern from the
Alaska Psychological Association (APA) about the use of assessment
techniques. AMA would like to see the use of assessment techniques
limited to those "consistent with each counselor's formal education
and training, licensed professional counselors may administer and
utilize appropriate assessment instruments which measure and/or
diagnose problems and/or dysfunctions within the course of human
growth and development . . . appraisal techniques shall not include
the use of projective techniques . . . nor the use of psychological
or clinical tests designed to identify or classify abnormal or
pathological human behavior, nor the use of individually
administered intelligence tests." MS. HENRY said counselors do not
do these types of tests and she believes the prohibition on
projective testing already exists in the bill. MS. HENRY again
referred to the limitation of practice provision.
MR. CLEMENT explained that deciphering the subtleties of tests like
the Rorschach (ink blot) test was more of an art than a science,
and if he wanted to use a Rorschach he had evaluated, he would get
his psychologist to "sign off on it." CHAIRMAN TAYLOR noted the
issue seemed to be a turf battle of some sort.
MS. HENRY said it was not the intent of the bill to allow anyone to
do anything they are not trained to do and the bill allows a person
to complain if they believe this is happening.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said it seems that existing counselors don't have
to comply with the provisions in the bill. MS. HAGEVIG said the
bill does contain a grandfathering provision for people currently
practicing who have either a MA or a Ph.D. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if
the degree has to be in counseling and MS. HENRY said counseling or
a related field.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR announced his intent to take up the confirmation
hearing at this time.
SB 331 - PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR LICENSING
Resuming the discussion of SB 331, CHAIRMAN TAYLOR again noted that
there seemed to be a turf battle over the bill between
psychologists and counselors. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thought he heard
someone say that if these counselors had the appropriate post
graduate work and training they could be psychologists themselves.
MR. CLEMENT stated the name of the program is precisely what
prevents this. He said they do in fact have the same training, just
under another name. MS. HENRY agreed, saying the name on your
degree must match the name on your license. MR. CLEMENT specified
that a degree in "community psychology" might not be treated the
same as a degree in "psychology."
Number 444
SENATOR WILKEN thanked the committee for hearing the bill, saying
it originated from a constituent who had been wronged by someone
who claimed to be a counselor. He said he approached this issue
from a consumer protection standpoint but he's happy if it happens
to benefit counselors as well.
MS. SHEILA CLARSON Ph.D., representing the Alaska Psychological
Association (APA), testified via teleconference from Anchorage and
said the language of the bill is too broad, though she does support
counselor licensing. MS. CLARSON said the training of counselors
differs from that of a psychologist or a psychological associate
and the bill does not accurately reflect that.
MS. CLARSON said course work is generally specified for different
types of licences by regulation. She said MR. CLEMENT's comments
about testing illustrated APA's concern about testing. She said
appropriate use of testing and accurate diagnoses are important
issues that keep her from supporting the bill at this time.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if there had been an amendment contemplated
to deal with the testing issue. SENATOR WILKEN said he also thinks
it is a turf battle and the sides have compromised all they can. He
thinks the bill has reached a workable point at which the public
interest is served. CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked MS. CLARSON if she was
aware of the changes that had been made to the bill and she replied
she was. MS. CLARSON maintained her concern about the use of
testing by counselors due to the fact that the results of such a
test can make a big impact on a person's life. She concluded that
she recognizes there is room for both psychologists and counselors,
she just wants the bill to reflect the difference between the two.
Number 400
MS. ANNE HENRY said the scope of counselors practice is defined in
the bill and was modeled after the statute which licences marriage
and family therapists. She said the bill has been changed to
accommodate the concerns of psychologists.
MS. HAGEVIG made the point that psychologists have regulations
defining who can do what and this same thing will happen for
counselors under this bill. She indicated if there is a board of
counselors set up, they will set the regulations to flesh out what
is allowed in statute. She said the original licensure state for
psychologists was no more specific than this bill.
Number 387
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that a board of counselors defining what
counselors can do would understandably want to define those limits
broadly.
MS. CATHERINE SIMON, a member of the American Counseling
Association, testified via teleconference from Anchorage to her
support of the bill.
Number 360
MR. ALLEN MOROTTI commented that the bill will allow a board of
counselors to be set up. Currently, there is no board and no type
of oversight at all over people who call themselves "counselors."
MR. LLOYD CARY supported the bill due to a case he was aware of in
which a pastor falsely claimed to be a psychologist and was
practicing counseling. He supported licensure for the protection of
the public.
SENATOR PARNELL moved SB 331 with individual recommendation.
Without objection, the bill moved from committee and they were
adjourned.
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