Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/12/2000 02:13 PM Senate JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Number 270
SB 305-RIGHTS OF PROPERTY OWNER IN DISASTER AREA
MS. PORTIA PARKER, aid to Senator Lyda Green, stated for the record
that SB 305 was introduced to address the concerns of private
property owners and residents during emergency management of
wildfires and disaster areas. SB 305 establishes statutory
guidelines for balancing the rights of private property owners and
emergency personnel during wildfires and natural disasters.
MS. PARKER said the main provisions of SB 305 provide that an adult
resident or property owner can choose to evacuate or not to
evacuate an area, unless a minor or young children are involved.
Property owners and residents shall be permitted to enter a
threatened area if entry does not interfere with emergency
personnel and proof of residency or property ownership is provided.
MS. PARKER stated that SB 305 also provides statutory protection
for all emergency personnel from liability if a property owner or
resident is injured or killed because they choose not to evacuate
or they entered or re-entered a threatened area.
Number 432
MAJOR TED BACHMAN, Alaska State Troopers, said he has been working
with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR), the Bureau of Land
Management (BLM) and Public Safety and Fire Services in the Matsu
Valley to develop a statewide evacuation policy. The committee
feels that SB 305 does not address all of the essential issues.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked about the granting of complete immunity for
people or organizations that might have some type of liability in
a disaster.
MAJOR BACHMAN said he thinks immunity is given to the emergency
agency or organization that is handling the disaster if they advise
a resident to leave and the resident refuses or the resident
obtains re-entry knowing there may be some danger to life and
property.
Number 754
CAPTAIN TOM SAVAGE, Alaska State Troopers, said the committee's
policy is almost in the final stages of development and it
provides more flexibility for all concerned. The policy provides
input for modifying areas that need strengthening or areas that
need to be corrected and it clarifies the issues. One area of
difficulty has been the definitions of terminology, and the policy
defines these things and provides a clear direction for emergency
responders.
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said that one of the biggest issues has been access
into an area. SB 305 has not changed current statutory issues--
firefighters can still restrict or close access to areas. The
policy approach allows more flexibility, greater input, and greater
mobility once issues are found.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Captain Savage if he had specific instances
he wanted to address.
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said there is no provision in the statute for
removing a intoxicated person or a mentally incapable person
without their consent.
CAPTAIN SAVAGE commented that re-entry or entry is also an issue
addressed by the policy. The draft policy defines what will be
expected if there is a road closure, road block or checkpoint.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he was not sure what policy Captain Savage
was referring to.
CAPTAIN SAVAGE responded it is the policy Major Bachman was
referring to--what the committee has been developing for the past
nine or ten months.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if this is a internal policy to guide
personnel in making decisions or is it a policy that will be
enforceable through regulation.
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said the policy has not been addressed at this level
and certainly not in terms of regulation.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked how the policy addresses the issue of a
intoxicated person wanting to go into a fire area?
CAPTAIN SAVAGE responded that a incapacitated person will be
prevented from going into a fire area, but a person with alcohol on
his breath who appears to be rational will be allowed to enter to
protect his property.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked to what extent does the policy assist in
these circumstances.
CAPTAIN SAVAGE said it develops greater layers and levels for
evacuation, providing for exigent circumstance when people are
unable to protect themselves and have to be removed without their
consent.
Number 1211
MR. LARRY WOOD, resident of Lazy Mountain, said he witnessed the
entire exercise at Lazy Mountain. His house fronted Clark
Wolverine Road where the majority of the activity occurred, and his
letter to the Governor was the catalyst for what has happened. He
also stated that he disagrees with Captain Savage.
MR. WOOD said he is a member of the Lazy Mountain Community
Counsel Post-fire Committee which drafted the statutes. The
committee decided to reject the policy because policy changes,
depending on who is in charge. Contrary to Captain Savage's
assertions, the policy is not benign for the residents of the area.
If an evacuation order is given, people who refuse to leave should
be removed even if force is needed. There is no qualification for
this point in the policy.
MR. WOOD said the Lazy Mountain Community Council feels that SB 305
will insure that property owners are not treated as chattel.
Federal mandate says that there should be no participation of
property owners in defense of their property, but it was recognized
at Miller's Reach that homes were saved when residents stayed to
help. Fire crews can bulldoze the property, the house or whatever,
in order to stop the fire but the State takes no responsibility for
that property.
MR. WOOD said his only criticism of SB 305 is that the proof of
identification (ID) is raised beyond the level of a driver's
license. If a person is called at work or finds out over the radio
that there is an emergency, they may leave their ID behind in their
haste to leave.
MR. WOOD noted that the only thing he is trying to do with SB 305
is to insure that people have access to their property.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Wood if he had a copy of SB 305.
MR. WOOD responded yes. He said it varies little from what was
drafted with the exception of the section that states: "contains
the photograph," and the original draft from the Lazy Mountain
Council said that a person who provides false witness should be
held criminally liable. The financially responsible aspect of SB
305 is also objectionable because it makes "the person who vouches
is responsible for that individual who goes into the area and has
a fender bender, for example."
MR. WOOD said the citizens of Lazy Mountain are not going to sue a
police officer for trying to do his job under the circumstances
that were experienced at Lazy Mountain, but they most assuredly
will object--SB 305 is that objection.
MR. WOOD said the Lazy Mountain fire was handled very badly by the
Division of Forestry and the Alaska State Troopers in terms of
security and perimeter control. The draft plan addresses some of
this, but the residents of Lazy Mountain feel that it would serve
all of Alaska well to have the protection afforded by SB 305.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thanked Mr. Wood and said he shares some of the
same concerns. One of his concerns is over the wording "legally
and financially responsible for another person," and another
concern is over the liability aspects of the immunity provision.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said it is the intent of the Committee to hold SB
305 and work on it in the interim.
Number 1900
MS. BARBARA LEISS made the following comments:
First of all, this is farm country. Most of the people who live
here are farmers with large tracts of land, livestock and other
animals. A lot of the people have lived here all of their life
and everyone knows everyone. Hence, the reason for all of the
problems that occurred during the roadblock.
People seeking access to a fire or disaster area must show good
reasons to the officers or firefighters in charge for wanting to
enter that area, whether they are a resident, relative of a
resident, or friend of a resident who wants to help. There are a
lot of people in Alaska that do not have fire insurance and they
will take desperate measures to save their goods--firefighters and
police officers need to realize that.
Another problem was that the fire occurred in the afternoon and it
reached its peak around 1:30 or 2:00 on a weekday. Elementary
school children were being bussed home at that time. They were
dropped off on the main road to walk to their homes. Shortly after
2:30, State Troopers were informed by the firefighters to put up a
roadblock to the mountain at its main entrance. Remember, we have
only one way in and one way out and that's the problem. Parents
returning home from work were denied access to get to their
children who were home alone and the authorities did not know which
homes had children nor did they take any steps to evacuate the
children. There was no means of transportation for evacuating the
children. There were also disabled people in wheelchairs who were
home alone. The police should work with the residents when there
are children and disabled and elderly people involved. This area
is not addressed in SB 305 and the citizens of Lazy Mountain would
like it included.
There was also an incident with an old man who was in a wheelchair.
The man's son finally convinced the police to check on him. The
police went to the door, didn't wait very long, and were already
out the driveway by the time the elderly man in the wheelchair got
to the door. Common sense needs to be used.
"And, of course, you've already heard about the drawing of the gun
on a farmer boy here who has never had a criminal record in his
life and the reason that boy was so desperate to get to his farm
and his family was because at the roadblock, he was told that his
house was on fire and his family was trapped."
MS. LEISS said that changing the statutes to be more reasonable for
the majority of citizens is in order.
Number 2115
MR. KEN ROWLAND, resident of Lazy Mountain, said he does not
believe the policy is the way to address this problem, and he
wholeheartedly agrees with Larry Wood that policy changes with the
people in charge. He is also concerned about the gun issue.
MR. ROWLAND said that policy should not be at the whim of
bureaucrats and firefighters who can change it indiscriminately.
He is also concerned that firefighters can burn a person's home to
enhance the firefighting effort. Destroying property should never
be left to the decision of one person--at least three officials
should make that decision.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR suggested the re-draft should have a provision
saying that if there is a decision to burn a home or building the
State will rebuild or give the owner money to rebuild.
Number 2287
MS. HELEN MUNOZ said the other people who testified expressed her
concerns. She said that for the first time in her life she felt
threatened by authority during the Lazy Mountain fire.
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