Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/19/2000 02:00 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 301(FIN)
"An Act relating to the Chitina dip net fishing permit;
and providing for an effective date."
Co-Chair Therriault provided members with a proposed
committee substitute, work draft 1-LS1516\S, dated 4/19/00
(copy on file).
SENATOR WILKEN, SPONSOR testified in support of CSSB
301(FIN). The Chitina fishery is one of the largest in the
state. Over 10,000 household permits are issued each year,
with approximately 20,000 - 30,000 Alaskan residents
participating. Last year approximately 118,000 salmon were
harvested. In Dec. 1999, the Alaska Board of Fisheries
reclassified the Chitina Personal Use fishery to a
Subsistence fishery. The designation of the dip net fishery
as subsistence will have little impact on the way the
fishery is managed and has little to do with the need to
secure public access and provide services. Regulations
governing the Chitina Fishery require people to have a
permit issued by the Department in their possession. This
permit serves as the harvest record.
AS 10.05.340 (a) (22) sets a fee for a "Chitina Personal
Use Dip net Permit" at $10. This fee has been in place since
1990. Proceeds from this fee go the fish and game fund and
have been used to pay Chitina & Ahtna Native Corporations
for access across their lands and for outhouse and garbage
services. An agreement between the Department of Fish and
Game and the Corporations determines the percentage
distribution and services.
Senate Bill 301 amends the existing statute by renaming the
"Chitina Personal Use Salmon Dip Net" fishing permit to the
"Chitina Dip Net" fishing permit, and increases the permit
fee from $10 to $25 dollars. It changes the name of the
permit to remove the words "personal use", as it is no
longer a "personal use" fishery. The legislation changes the
fee to coincide with the new agreement reached between the
Corporations and the Department of Fish and Game. This new
agreement is intended to provide for maximum legal public
access to the dip net fishery while minimizing conflicts
between the private landowners and the fishermen at Chitina.
The legislation was amended in the Senate to exempt senior
citizens.
Senator Wilken observed that private property owners are
impacted by dip netters crossing their land to access the
river. The legislation is an attempt to negotiate a
settlement between corporations, private landowners and the
state to resolve conflicts of private property and signs and
fences.
In 2000, dip netters will pay $25 for their permit. Since
the fishery is now designated a subsistence fishery there is
no requirement for a sport-fishing license to fish there. In
1999, people were required to have a $15 dollar sport
fishing license and the $10 dollar Chitina permit, for a
total expense of $25 dollars. Under this plan, only the
proposed $25 dollar Chitina permit will be required.
Since the Chitina permit is a household permit, families
could save under this plan. For example a family of two
adults paid a total of $40 dollars last year, this year it
will only be $25 dollars. Services will be significantly
increased and improved over past years. Access to the Native
lands is more identified than in previous agreements. The
process of obtaining the permit will be available from
Department offices in Anchorage, Palmer, Fairbanks,
Glennallen and Chitina. This will allow better service to the
public, making it easier and faster to obtain the permit, and
decreasing the management costs to the Department of Fish &
Game.
Without a change in the name of the permit, the Department is
unable to collect a fee for the permit, because it is not a
personal use fishery. Without the permit fee or other
provisions, funding for services and access would be
unavailable. It is uncertain what the Corporations would do
with regard to affecting access to the river, but families
going to Chitina this summer could be faced with the
potential for conflict.
Senator Wilkens noted that the legislation is supported by
the Alaska Outdoor Council, Alaska Dip Netters Association,
and the Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee.
Vice Chair Bunde observed that the revenue collected by the
Department of Fish and Game would be reduced. He pointed out
that those that are not trespassing would still need
permits.
Senator Wilken responded that everyone has the opportunity
to trespass. He emphasized that he would not have introduced
the legislation if he didn't think that private land was
being impacted. Boaters fish from the shore, which can be
public or private.
Representative J. Davies spoke in support of the legislation
and stressed that there is a problem.
Representative Phillips spoke in support of the legislation
and stressed that there is a similar problem in Homer with
hunting in the backcountry.
STAN BLOOM, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in
support of the legislation. He spoke in support of the
intent language adopted by the Senate Finance Committee. He
stressed that dip netters pay for their services. He
observed that state funding is not available to pay for the
services. He felt that the legislation would help to reduce
conflicts. He pointed out that 30,000 dip netters impact
land owned by Native corporations.
Co-Chair Therriault clarified that Mr. Bloom supports the
intent and findings included in the legislation. Mr. Bloom
added that money should be appropriated for services. He
added that the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities should be involved and included in the intent
language.
ALLEN BARRETTE, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in
opposition to CSSB 301(FIN). He noted that the court ruled
that there is a 300-foot easement to the river. There is a
right-of-way provision included in state law. He maintained
that there is plenty of public land available without
trespassing. He expressed concern that the legislation would
encourage other large property owners to negotiate
trespassing taxs with the Department of Fish and Game. He
noted that sportsmen and subsistence users use a state trail
though his private property. He questioned if the Department
of Fish and Game would collect a trespass fee for other
areas. He asserted that other groups are not being charged
an access fee.
LISA HARBO, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in
opposition to CSSB 301(FIN). She did not feel that she
should pay an access fee to the state for fishing on the
railroad right-of-way, which belongs to the state. She
stressed that the state should establish where public access
exists instead of requiring a fee.
MARK HEM, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in
opposition to the legislation. He pointed out that the
Native Corporation is a conglomerate of landowners operating
for profit. He suggested that money be set aside to survey
the land and determine the problem. He acknowledged that
there is no agreement and that there may be problems in
Chitina, but emphasized that it is not a good reason to pass
a law. He stressed that the state would be guilty of
discrimination if it refused an access tax on other private
land used to access state land. He noted that the fee was
charged 10 years ago, but pointed out that the fishery has
increased. He maintained that most people do not know that
they are paying a trespass fee, but think they are paying a
fishing permit. He asserted that there are objections to
paying a fee to a private corporation.
Co-Chair Therriault asked if Mr. Hem had seen the proposed
committee substitute, which would provide funding to
identify public lands within the Copper River Railroad
right-of-way. Mr. Hem responded that he had reviewed the
proposed committee substitute. He acknowledged that the
proposal is a good attempt to try to reconcile something for
the up coming year. He expressed concern that the state
would give public money to survey private property. Co-Chair
Therriault pointed out that when he surveyed his property
that his neighbors also benefited. He stressed that the
state's right-of-way is being surveyed. Mr. Hem noted that
the corporations are putting forth the allegations of
trespass.
GREG MACHACEK, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in
support of the legislation. He recommended that the problem
be put to rest. He acknowledged that corporations may
benefit from marking the right-of-way, but emphasized that
it needs to be addressed. He felt that the fee was on the
high end. He maintained that if the legislation does not
pass that more people would access the fishery from boats.
TOM SCARBOROUGH, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference. He
stressed that the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities is the manager of the right-of-way. He emphasized
the need for a physical survey to establish the right-of-
way. He felt that the Department of Natural Resources should
manage the area as a state campground and that the
Department of Fish and Game should manage the fishery. He
did not think the legislation is a long-term solution. He
estimated that it would take $100 thousand dollars to survey
the land and recommended that the state purchase the land,
He suggested a sunset clause. He questioned if the current
Administration would address the situation.
JOSEPH HART, ATTORNEY, AHTNA, GLENNALLEN testified via
teleconference in support of the legislation. He noted that
he represents the corporations that negotiated the agreement
with the state. He pointed out that the mean high watermark
has never been established. The private property owners
provided the toilets that are present. He noted that other
states require a fee for private property access. He
observed that the agreement has been in place for more than
ten years. He maintained that money should be put aside to
pay for services. He noted that the Native Corporation pays
people to pick up trash from those that are using their land
to access the fishery. He observed that the corporation owns
the land beneath the right-of-way. He maintained that the
land is not for sale or trade.
(TAPE CHANGE, HFC 00 - 127, SIDE 2)
In response to a question by Co-Chair Therriault, Mr. Hart
acknowledged that it would be good to establish the right-
of-way. He felt that establishment of the right-of-way would
strengthen their arguments that the public is going outside
the right-of-way. He maintained that there are safety
concerns with parking. The original fee request was $25
dollars and would make public money available for services.
Representative Austerman pointed out that other private
landowners establish and collect their own fees. Mr. Hart
responded that the Department of Fish and Game agreed to
work with private landowners and the public to collect fees.
JOE BALASH, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT provided
information on the legislation. He explained that the
Department of Natural Resources was included since they
manage state land. There was not a conscious decision to
exclude the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities. Co-Chair Therriault suggested that the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities be
included. He pointed out that the Corporation technically
owns all the land within the right-of-way.
DICK BISHOP, VICE-PRESIDENT, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL (AOC)
testified in support of the legislation. He observed that
the intent language reflects concerns and maintained that it
is appropriate. The legislation is essential to allow people
to fish in the coming summer. A long-term solution would
still be needed. He agreed that the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities would need to be
consulted. He pointed out that the intent is to assure that
the fishery can begin at the start of the season. He
acknowledged that not all of the members agree with the
Council's position.
Representative Austerman questioned if the state should be
responsible for the collection of fees charged by other
private property owners that imposed an access fee for
hunting. Mr. Bishop responded that the ideal situation would
be for the private landowner to take responsibility for the
collection of fees. He stressed that it is not possible to
address the issue in the context of the bill. He added the
issue should not preclude resolution that would allow dip
netters to have access in the current season.
Vice Chair Bunde observed that a sport fishing license fee
cannot be assessed, since it is no longer a sport fishery.
He felt that there should be some cost associated with the
use of the resource. He noted that the state would retain $7
dollars of each trespass fee that it collects. He questioned
the financial impact on the Department of Fish and Game.
KEVIN BROOKS, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME acknowledged that the change in
designation has created problems. The entire amount would
come to the state. The state would pay the corporations $18
dollars of the $25 dollar fee. The department will work to
maintain efforts to manage the fishery. He noted that the
legislation would be a solution for the upcoming season,
while they continue to work on a long-term solution.
Vice Chair Bunde questioned the cost of collecting the fee
and stated that he would like to see the activity pay for
itself. Mr. Brooks responded that the $7 dollars would cover
the provision of services that have been described, such as
bathrooms. The management cost would be born by the
department. He noted that cost would not be under the
Division of Sport Fish. He observed that it would be hard to
quantify the cost of the collection because there is already
an ongoing effort. He stressed that the fee is to cover
access.
In response to a question by Representative Austerman, Mr.
Brooks confirmed that a portion of the $10 fee that was
charged before it became a subsistence fishery covered
access fees to the private landowner.
Representative Austerman asked if there is a regulation to
institute an agreement between the landowners and the fees
that were collected. Mr. Brook responded that the department
has statutory authority to enter into cooperative agreements
under Title 16. He noted discussions are occurring regarding
the collection of fees.
Co-Chair Therriault amended the proposed committee
substitute to read: Department of Natural Resources and the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to
identify the portion of the Copper River Railroad right-of-
way, associated with the Chitina dip net fishery, to carry
out this intent. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered.
Co-Chair Mulder MOVED to ADOPT work draft 1-LS1516\S, dated
4/19/00 as amended. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered.
Senator Wilken expressed his appreciation for the amendments
to the legislation, but questioned if the change from a 5-
year to a 3-year negotiated agreement would be of concern to
the Department of Fish and Game.
Representative J. Davies suggested that the sunset be on
June 1, 2001. Co-Chair Therriault noted that there is a
contract for the current year and that the next negotiation
would be for three years.
Senator Wilken noted that the legislation only fixes the
fee. Negotiations on the agreement can occur without
changing the fee or requiring additional legislation.
Representative J. Davies responded that the sunset date
would require the legislature to review the issues.
Representative J. Davies MOVED to ADOPT a sunset date of on
June 1, 2001. Co-Chair Mulder OBJECTED.
KARA MORIARTY, STAFF, SENATOR WILKEN explained that the
department expressed concern that a sunset would be
detrimental to negotiations.
Representative J. Davies WITHDREW his motion.
Representative Austerman questioned the fee structure. Mr.
Brooks explained that there would be a new fiscal note of
$150 thousand dollars in contractual: $130 fish and game
funds and $20 general funds from the senior exemption.
Representative Austerman observed that the legislation
specifies that the survey would be paid from the fee
collected. Mr. Brooks noted that there is $100 thousand
dollars from the $10 dollar that was collected. Co-Chair
Therriault observed that the cost of the survey would be
negotiated; it would not preclude the department from
requesting general fund support from a future legislature.
Mr. Brooks clarified that the revenue estimate is based on
10,000 permits resulting at $150 thousand dollars. This
money would be fully allocated for the current year.
Co-Chair Mulder MOVED to report HCS CSSB 301 (FIN) out of
Committee with the accompanying fiscal note. Representative
J. Davies OBJECTED for the purpose of discussion. Mr. Brooks
explained that the amount collected, which goes to the
department is the existing $100 thousand dollars. Co-Chair
Therriault noted that there is enough authorization to
reflect the portion of the money that is retained by the
department.
Representative Austerman noted that the survey would not be
done until the next year.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
HCS CSSB 301(FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with a new fiscal impact note by
the Department of Fish and Game.
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