Legislature(1999 - 2000)
03/06/2000 03:15 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 267-MANAGEMENT OF GAME
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced SB 267 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR KELLY, sponsor, moved to adopt the CS to SB 267, version H
Utermole (1LS1430\H 3/6/00). There were no objections and it was
so ordered.
SENATOR KELLY explained that his intention is that, in areas
declared to be under intensive management, "land and shoot" will be
considered an acceptable method of hunting. Also, in the statute
under the "land and shoot" provision, ADF&G cannot appoint agents
for landing and shooting or to do aerial shooting in areas where
necessary. This will allow them to appoint agents for that task.
Number 512
SENATOR KELLY asked Mr. Wayne Regelin, Director, Division of
Wildlife Conservation, ADF&G, if he had reviewed the fiscal note.
MR. REGELIN replied that he had briefly reviewed it since he
arrived and thought that it would probably be changed significantly
based upon the CS.
SENATOR KELLY asked if the fiscal note in version A came from
section 3 which is now gone.
MR. REGELIN replied yes.
SENATOR KELLY said he thought sections 2 and 3 didn't have any
fiscal impact, but (c)(1) might and he asked him to comment.
MR. REGELIN replied that he didn't think there would be a fiscal
impact on ADF&G, but there would be a huge one on the Department of
Law as it fights the separation of powers between the legislative
and administrative branches of government.
SENATOR MACKIE asked if he supports the bill.
MR. REGELIN said he hadn't a chance to thoroughly read the CS but
thought it looked like a vast improvement over the original bill.
He explained that it looks like they are at an impasse again over
wolf control. It's not the first time and it is hard to achieve a
long term solution.
MR. REGELIN asked to take a few minutes to discuss predator
management in general and propose a solution to the impasse. Last
year they heard that the Joint Committee in the House clearly
illustrated the values of the many people who are dependent on
wildlife and many other hunters who want to have more moose and
caribou. They firmly believe wolf control is the answer and should
be started immediately in many areas.
He assured the committee that many people in Alaska have very
different opinions. They don't want wolf control to occur because
they have different values about wildlife. They feel just as
passionately about this subject as the people they heard from in
the last joint hearing. He always tells people that values aren't
right or wrong, but they can be very different. One thing they can
all agree on is that our wildlife in Alaska belongs to all Alaskans
and that we should consider everyone's values in our wildlife
programs.
Most sides have legitimate concerns and legitimate uses. We have to
be careful not to react on emotion and to make reasoned decisions
that can be sustained over time.
He has to smile when people tell him that wildlife management
shouldn't be political and that all decisions should be made
strictly on biology. Predator management rivals how we spend money
in the Permanent Fund as the one issue where Alaskans have a strong
opinion. When there is this much intense interest in how they
manage a public resource, politics are going to be a big part of
the picture. If decisions were made on biology only, we wouldn't
need a Board of Game or need to spend hundreds of thousands of
dollars supporting advisory committees.
The legislature realized at Statehood that biology is only part of
the equation and created the Boards of Fisheries and Game to meld
the biology with human needs and desires into a management system.
The Board of Game has a very difficult job, but overall it does a
great job for us. In the past six years, its job has been made a
whole lot harder because three statutes were passed that mandate
decisions the Board must make in certain instances. The intensive
management law is very complex to administer and causes untold
problems for the Board of Game. He was glad to see the CS doesn't
continue, through the statutes, to tell the Board how it should
take action and he appreciated that.
Part of the solution is that it's time to reexamine the entire
intensive management law and make it more balanced and easier for
the Board to use. He has heard from many people that the wildlife
management system lacks balance. They feel that way because
intensive management laws mandate that moose, caribou, sheep, and
deer be managed intensively for human consumption nearly everywhere
in Alaska.
Recent changes in statute mandate that the Board determine that
consumptive use is a preferred use and it can't reduce seasons or
bag limits downward without triggering the intensive management
law.
TAPE 00-09, SIDE A
Number 001
MR. REGELIN continued. When you look at the big picture, people
who aren't hunters believe our system lacks balance. The latest
thing he has heard is that the system is broken. These people are
Alaskans and we should listen to their concerns.
We are fortunate in that the size of Alaska and the abundance and
diversity of wildlife can provide this balance in our wildlife
management programs so that all values can probably be met in most
places in Alaska. Balance means providing areas in Alaska where
intensive management for human consumption is not the primary
management goal; it also means that wolf control should occur in
areas where the goal is to keep predators at low or moderate levels
to enhance prey populations so people can use them for food.
He didn't think the solution to the problem is additional mandates
to the Board or to the Commissioner. These measures have been
tried several times and haven't worked. They don't do anything but
polarize the issue. The solution is to demonstrate to all Alaskans
that we have a biologically based and balanced wildlife management
system.
If we can demonstrate to the public that our goal recognizes
diverse values and begin to make changes to reach this goal, we can
begin to move toward a solution. We're not going to get agreement
with the extremists on either end of the scale because they don't
want to recognize the values of anybody else as being legitimate.
However, if we go this way, we are going to have the support of a
vast majority of Alaskans. He thought we needed to begin this
process by sitting down together to consider revisions to our
wildlife management statutes. We should form small groups of
stakeholders to discuss the biology situation in McGrath and work
with them to reach consensus on a management direction in this
area.
MR. REGELIN said they have had a lot of success working with this
group in the past and he thought they could do it again so they
could move ahead in the McGrath area. To forge lasting solutions,
they have to include all the reasonable stakeholders in the debate
and in the solution. Inclusion of the extremists won't be helpful
because they won't compromise, but he is convinced that most
Alaskans will.
SENATOR KELLY asked him to comment on sections 2 and 3 and asked if
it was a better bill by removing section 1.
MR. REGELIN responded that he was worried section 1 creates
conflict unnecessarily. He thought that aircraft and use of it
have to be part of the solution in section 2. The way the bill is
structured the practice of land and shoot would be allowed over a
broad area of Alaska, because they are talking about any area the
Board of Game has identified for intensive management. He said
they might want to consider reducing that to areas where the Board
of Game has authorized a predator control implementation plan. It
might provide a lot less controversy for the bill.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what that meant. He said they authorized a
predator program in McGrath and asked if they authorized it
anywhere else.
MR. REGELIN replied that presently it is authorized in McGrath,
unit 20D around the Delta area, and the Forty Mile 20E area. The
Board will also consider at its next meeting whether to add unit
13.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked which additional areas are being authorized
for intensive game management.
MR. REGELIN replied ADF&G is going through that process now with
the Board. He didn't have a map, but said it's almost all of
interior Alaska. A few areas have been left out because of the way
the statutes are structured. One village on the North Slope has
petitioned to include a couple of areas on the North Slope. He
thought Kodiak Island was listed to be managed intensively, but the
Board decided it wasn't practical to do. In reality, there have
been very few areas identified in Alaska where human harvest is an
important element to the wildlife management program. He thought
that was appropriate.
SENATOR KELLY asked if the predator control program is done under
emergency regulations and has a fairly short life span.
MR. REGELIN answered no, they are authorized for five year periods
(with current statutes) by the Board of Game. The only time the
Board used emergency action was at the last meeting in McGrath
because it took it up out of cycle.
SENATOR KELLY asked if it was declared intensive management.
MR. REGELIN replied yes.
SENATOR KELLY asked if the problem is that by the time they are
done with this process, McGrath might find itself left out. If the
Governor can stack the Board like he wants to, they might not be
able to get the Board to declare McGrath to be under a predator
control program. If they change this to be under a predator
control program, they might find that McGrath is sitting outside of
the bubble and that's one of the areas where it simply has to be
addressed.
MR. REGELIN informed them when the Board took action in January, it
adopted an emergency regulation that was converted to a regular
long-term regulation that will take effect for five years. If the
Board rescinds that action, it could create problems in the timing
of the Board's cycle. It requires a full Board meeting and the law
requires a public meeting in the area, etc. It could delay it for
a year. In most places they know ahead of time what is coming up.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what difference the bill makes.
MR. REGELIN explained that the bill makes land and shoot hunting a
normal method of hunting in these areas. No permit would have to
be issued.
SENATOR TAYLOR commented that the people of Alaska could do it
themselves instead of waiting around for them to do something they
have been authorized to do for years but have refused to do.
Number 655
SENATOR LINCOLN said she would like a side-by-side comparison to
see what intensive management looked like versus predator
management. She wants legislation so that McGrath, Alakaket,
Chuathluk, and other areas that have already identified a decrease
in the moose population and an increase in the wolf population as a
serious problem to have a program that would be implemented
immediately. She is concerned when the Governor of her party says
wolf control will be implemented in the McGrath area if the
legislature will take up the Toklat wolves and one other thing.
Someone referred to it as a hostage situation. She objects to that
type of management. Either we have a problem in these areas and we
address them or we are held hostage. She wants a solution for the
people who depend on that moose and caribou for food - and not a
year down the line. That's her bottom line.
MR. REGELIN responded that the way the bill is drafted, as soon as
it goes into effect, land and shoot hunting would be a permitted
activity as a method of hunting or trapping in the whole area she
is talking about. The Board has completed the process of
identifying populations for intensive management. This CS would do
that. They have to realize that in much of Alaska around McGrath,
land and shoot hunting is probably not going to be that effective
because of the topography.
SENATOR LINCOLN agreed with that and added that they aren't going
to see a whole slaughter of wolves. If this bill does that by
having the word "intensive management," she would sign it. They
have waited so many years to have a solution and there just hasn't
been one forthcoming from the Administration.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Dick Bishop, Alaska Outdoor Council, if
he wanted to testify or move the bill. He indicated he wanted to
move the bill.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSSB 267(RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
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