Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
02/14/2008 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB101 | |
| SCR15 | |
| SB202|| SB215 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SCR 15 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 215 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 202 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | HB 101 | ||
9:27:40 AM
SB 202-PROHIBIT STATE SPENDING FOR REAL ID ACT
SB 215-REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE/I.D.
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 215 and SB 202.
The concerns about SB 215 are centered on the Real I.D. Act,
instead of the "baseline issue itself." The worry is that SB 215
will set the state up for the federal Real I.D. mandate without
addressing privacy concerns. It is logical to bring it up with
SB 202, which is something that many other states have done in
the process of enhancing driver's licenses. Washington State has
allowed for an enhancement on the license that requires proof of
citizenship and documentation; however, it is very explicit in
statute that it will not accept the Real I.D. mandate until
privacy concerns are addressed.
SENATOR BILL WIELECHOWSKI, Alaska State Legislature, said SB 202
will ban state funding for Real I.D., which was put into law in
2005 as part of an emergency appropriation bill for the war on
Iraq. It was right after Hurricane Katrina, and it was put into
a large, must-pass bill. There was very little discussion on it,
and many people did not even notice it. The Real I.D. law, which
most Alaskans would have serious concerns about, requires the
first federal identification system. Unlike the passport, this
I.D. must be carried and shown in order to fly or enter federal
buildings. In order to access any federal facilities, like the
IRS offices, a federal courthouse, or a national park, a person
would need this card.
9:31:48 AM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said there are bills proposed in Congress
that will extend reasons for which the I.D. will be required.
Since Alaska has a large percentage of its land managed by the
federal government, this is obviously a concern. "There's no
reason to assume that anything that the federal government
funds, whether it be hospitals … Amtrak, or busses, you would
now have to show your identification card." Section 202 of the
Real I.D. law requires machine-readable technology with defined
minimum data elements. The federal government is setting up a
system of scanning the card and creating a data trail on people.
The government will have access to everywhere someone has been
and had their card scanned. The card will be scanned every time
someone goes to any federal location, flies, opens a bank
account, or enters a hospital. This raises serious privacy
concerns for many people. It is the beginning of a surveillance
society with the federal government tracking people's movements.
9:33:55 AM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said the proposed rules included radio-
frequency (RF) I.D.s. with a radio chip in the card, but that
was not in the final rules. "There is no reason to doubt that
once this is implemented Congress couldn't go back and simply do
a one-line amendment in a massive budget bill in the future
saying, 'well, guess what, now your cards have to have RF
I.D.'." That will allow the federal government to really track
where people are going even if cards aren't scanned. The
government can choose to put scanners in any location that will
scan a card when someone walks by.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she has a bill for Friday "on state law
governing RF I.D. chips generally." It isn't just the federal
government; a person can buy these scanners on the internet.
Chips are in credit cards and grocery store cards, "and anytime
you walk by or are in the presence of someone that has that
scanner … it forecasts your entire - your social security
number, your birth date - very sensitive information about you."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said licenses might include finger prints,
retinal scans, or DNA. Every time the card is scanned the
information goes into a system. The Real I.D. system requires
that Alaska and every other state share data. Every DMV official
has access to every Alaskan's data. Private organizations may be
working with this data. Some DMVs use private companies.
9:36:51 AM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said there are travel treaties with Canada
and Mexico, and the federal government is still in the process
of developing rules in that regard, "but there is no reason to
expect that when you go into Canada or when you go into Mexico
and you swipe your I.D., foreign nationals in those countries
will have access to every American's private data." The cost is
unknown, but DMV estimated it will cost Alaska about $10
million. Real I.D. requirements include keeping paper and
electronic copies for many years. That will entail a cost.
States must ensure the physical security of locations where
driver's licenses and I.D. cards are produced. "No one really
knows what that means, but when we enter federal buildings now,
we see armed guards and federal police." That will cost the
state. The Real I.D. law requires extensive changes to hiring
and retention practices for DMV. In Alaska there are people that
have no easy access to DMV. Bush residents may want to fly
somewhere after they have just turned 16. A person can't get on
the plane without the card. Physical presence at the DMV is
required to get the Real I.D, including for license renewal.
9:39:32 AM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said there are concerns that this is the
first step toward a national gun registry. Gun Owners of America
opposes Real I.D. "Here's how it can happen: When you go to Fred
Meyer or wherever to purchase your gun, you have to fill out a
form - 4473 - you have show your I.D. You show your federally
mandated national identification card and it's now swiped, and
guess what, the federal government and the state now knows that
you've just purchased a gun." It is the same for ammunition. The
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can decide any other use
for the I.D. He asked if it is a stretch of the imagination that
an upcoming DHS secretary will say, "We need to now swipe your
I.D.s for guns." This does nothing to secure the borders.
Illegal immigrants cannot get a driver's license in Alaska.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said many presidential candidates have
opposed Real I.D. as do the American Bar Association, American
Civil Liberties Union, Catholic Social Services of Alaska, John
Birch Society, National Center on Domestic and Sexual Violence,
National Taxpayers Union, Citizens against Government Waste,
Privacy Rights Clearing House, and People for the American Way.
There are 18 states that have passed similar legislation, and 18
more are reviewing it. There are many religious groups that
oppose Real I.D. He said to stand up for Alaska's sovereignty.
9:42:33 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said federal legislation needs to be addressed at
the federal level. If Alaska opposes this federal mandate, will
Alaskans not be able to get on an airplane or do other things?
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said yes. "We represent the people of
Alaska, and this is an encroachment on the privacy rights … of
the people." He said the legislature should not stand for the
government taking away those rights.
SENATOR BUNDE said he doesn't think unknown persons "should get
on our airplanes either." It is a right of passage for a young
person to get a phony I.D. on the streets Los Angeles. "What are
we going to do about the other problem that we have: people who
can have assumed identities … with ill intent for our country?"
9:44:13 AM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said this does absolutely nothing to make
our country safer. If the federal government is concerned about
illegal immigrants, it needs to secure our borders. This is the
federal government commandeering the DMV and not paying for it.
If the government is creating big brother, they need to pay for
it, and that is all SB 202 does.
SENATOR BUNDE said there is some hyperbole in the response.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said her philosophy is closely aligned with
Senator Wielechowski's. She said the testimony on SB 215
addressed the issue of the Real I.D. The sponsor said SB 215 was
not about Real I.D., but about making Alaska's drivers licenses
more secure. Many states are looking at this, and it is "the
opposite of what we did with the Patriot Act, which sailed
through. There are tremendous concerns about it now. States are
looking at this and saying, 'what a revelation' in terms of
monitoring people's internet use at our libraries, but we didn't
say anything. We didn't do it. And so this is one way of saying
sometimes the states can … we don't have the power if they
mandate it, but sometimes states can send messages that there
are concerns." She hopes the federal government takes into
account the serious privacy concerns. It is the kind of bill
that needs to go to the appropriate people.
9:46:38 AM
SENATOR FRENCH said the committee is in agreement. If the
federal government wants a federal I.D. card, it needs to set up
the program and not force it on the states. "Put the
responsibility where it lies." SB 215 is only part of a Real
I.D. It can be argued either way. "What does the Commissioner of
Public Safety do should [SB 215] become law with that fiscal
note?" It creates difficulty in implementing a policy choice,
which Senator French agrees with. "We should not be bearing this
cost." But at some point, the commissioner will have to make a
call about whether it complies with the Real I.D. Act or not.
9:48:15 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said perhaps it makes the dialogue more overt. If
Real I.D. comes to fruition, the commissioner would come before
the legislature and discuss the merits of implementation.
SENATOR STEVENS noted that this is the direction of other
states, almost unanimously. He likes not using state money.
MATTHEW KERR, Anchorage, said he supports SB 202, but the issues
of legal presence and Real I.D. are separate and only somewhat
related. The primary purpose of a driver's license is to protect
public safety rather than for identification. He did not use his
driver's license to fly last year, and it wasn't too difficult.
He could fly from Juneau to Anchorage without any I.D. at all.
The Real I.D. has been rejected by many states. "If we all go
along with this, it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy, so I
support the state's efforts to oppose it."
9:51:24 AM
JAMES HARRISON, Attorney, Sacramento CA, said he is an Alaska
attorney and has been involved in Real I.D. for quite some time.
Real I.D. requires all drivers to be compliant by 2014. It is a
five-year process of renewal, so to be Real I.D. compliant by
2014, the state will need to start issuing them next year. The
infrastructure, background checks, and everything else required
by Real I.D. will need to be done now. The money needs to be
spent now, not in the future. The state has taken an extension
of time for compliance, but the state can't sit back and do
nothing. DMV argued that it was going to do some of the Real
I.D. things anyway, but how will Alaska differentiate if there
are no funds for Real I.D.? He referred to the Real I.D. rules
and the Appendix A checklist. It is part of the federal register
and there are 18 points to comply with. He told the committee to
have DMV go over the list for them. Real I.D. is not about
illegal immigrants. It is about everyone who will have to prove
citizenship. This is a prior restraint on people's rights, and
it has a danger of mission creep. It is anti-American.
9:54:43 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said copies are being made of Washington State's
resolution and one by Senator Ted Stevens in Congress.
KEVIN BROOKS, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Administration,
said this week the state filed for an extension for the Real
I.D. rules and received preliminary approval through December
2009. The rules are 200 pages. He has spoken with the bill's
sponsor regarding its impacts. The administration is very
concerned about the privacy and data security issues that have
been raised. The state is working on it. Currently the state is
complying with many aspects of the Real I.D., like digital
photos on driver's licenses, which is just a good business
practice. It is important not to restrict the department on
things that make sense. "We train our employees to detect
fraudulent documents and things of that nature." The bill
shouldn't be at the expense of good business practices that are
in place and are good for Alaskans. He spoke against restricting
Alaskans' free movement, and he spoke for taking a firm stand on
individual and state rights.
9:58:10 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked about suggestions to the language.
MR. BROOKS said the meeting just occurred yesterday, and Senator
Wielechowski was told what Alaska already does that happens to
comply with the Real I.D. rules. There is a $13 million budget
for the DMV, and that would not allow implementation of Real
I.D. If there was any movement toward compliance that is not
already happening, the department will need to come back to the
legislature for money. That will spur the debate further.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it is clear that [the bill] refers just to
those funds that would aid in implementing the Real I.D. Act of
2005. It is fairly specific, she said. "I don't think … it would
exclude good business practices that are being implemented. For
example, under Dwayne Bannock's lead, we did go to the digital
licenses." She doesn't see how that would be covered.
MR. BROOKS said he doesn't know, but the digital photo is on the
checklist, and the state doesn't want to be put in the position
of eliminating that. Digital photography is better than a
Polaroid under a laminate. "We just don't want anything that we
are doing to be prohibited … under passage of legislation." He
believes language can be found to address that concern.
SENATOR STEVENS asked what needs to be done after the extension.
MR. BROOKS said the state requested an extension, which does not
imply that the state intends to comply with the act. After an
exhaustive review of the rules of the act, the department will
come back to the legislature on what it will mean for the state
to comply. The state has rules that people are worked up about,
but the DMV must execute good business practices. The December
2009 date is looming. "We can more actively engage that
discussion the next time you're down here meeting, and we'll be
spending the interim working the issue."
10:02:12 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she would like to have the bill "as its own
full day in State Affairs to listen to what the department is
doing." She wants examples from other states.
BILL SCANNELL, Spokesperson, Identity Project, Anchorage, said
he has been working on opposing Real I.D. nationally. He
supports SB 202. He said Mr. Brooks is "essentially saying that
we should all be good Germans and follow the law." The state
letter requesting an extension says nothing about whether Alaska
will or will not comply. "In fact it reads to me like we have
every intention of complying." Alaskans will be a little
inconvenienced in order to take a stand. He has heard people say
that freedom is not free, and if Alaskans can't put up with a
little inconvenience …. "We can still fly - we may have to go
through secondary screening." He can't imagine Michael Chertoff
[secretary of DHS] keeping people out of courthouses. If we
can't put up with a little inconvenience to stand up for our
rights and freedoms, then we're nothing but good Germans, and
can't call ourselves Americans. The Real I.D. Act is an
abomination. "I deeply oppose it and strongly, strongly suggest
that you pass Senator Wielechowski's Real I.D. bill."
10:05:19 AM
PATRICK DALTON, Delta Junction, said, "I hope we still have
freedom of speech." The real I.D. started in the United Nations,
and he quoted a 2005 CNET article: "The Bush administration
chose to go ahead with imbedding 64 kilobyte chips in future
passports, acting a desire to abide by globally interoperable
standards devised by the International Civil Aviation
organization." He said the Bush Administration implemented the
Real I.D. Act with no Senate debate. The public still doesn't
know about it, he explained. It will be costly for the states.
Alaskans need to be free to travel without unreasonable
encumbrances, and that's what it all gets down to. If everyone
is checked for I.D.s, we are no longer free citizens. It would
be better to tighten up the border and things like that. Current
driver's licenses work fine, so if it is not broken, don't fix
it. This is a global identification system that will be machine-
readable throughout Europe. The United States is a sovereign
country, and we need to remain that way. U.S. Representative Jim
Guest of Missouri claims that the Real I.D. Act gives a false
sense of security because of not knowing the authenticity of the
documents presented to get the I.D. A fancy I.D. won't be any
better than the documents that are used to get it.
TIMOTHY PETERS, Paralegal, Anchorage, said he opposes the Real
I.D. Act. It is a violation of basic civil liberties and is
unconstitutional. States can't be told what to do with regard to
identification cards. It also violates Alaska's constitutional
right to privacy. He supports SB 202.
10:09:28 AM
IRVIN BAXTER, Bible Prophet, Garland, Texas, said the bible says
there will come a time when everyone will need a number in order
to buy or sell anything. "The powers that be" will control
people by economic restrictions. The immigration bill that was
defeated had language referring to social security cards and
employment eligibility. Many people are pushing for an I.D. to
show they can be employed in America. The databases will be
linked nationally. Homeland Security denies the intent of a
national database, but the bill speaks to the creation of a
unified database maintained by the DHS and comprised of
information from the Social Security Administration. "So they
fully intend to have a national database, which they will have
through the Real I.D. Act, and you'll have to be in that
database or you won't be able to hold a job." Without a job, a
person can't make money or buy things. "This is getting way to
close to home, as we are in this time of setting up of global
government." He concurs with the previous speaker. This is a
national I.D. that hasn't been needed for 230 years. The
perpetrators of 911 all could have qualified for this national
card. It would have stopped none of them, but it ends freedom in
America. "It's the worst thing we could possibly do." He has a
radio talk show about biblical prophecies.
10:12:24 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said SB 202 will be brought up again on Tuesday.
JEFFERY MITTMEN, Incoming Executive Director, American Civil
Liberty Union (ACLU) of Alaska, noted that Washington State has
opted out of the real I.D. until issues of privacy can be dealt
with. Five states have "absolutely opted out of real I.D." Real
I.D. has already failed to protect citizens because states are
refusing to participate. The final regulations issued by the DHS
in 2008 were not done in the normal manner. Many organizations
that have a stake in the issue had their comments essentially
ignored. The regulations fail to truly implement an actual
program that is workable and will provide real security. The DHS
estimated that the program will cost $9.9 billion, but only $90
million has been allocated. Businesses and nongovernmental
entities will be able to access the I.D. information. The DHS
has refused to require that this information be encrypted, "so
it's essentially creating a large target of opportunity for
identity thieves." It will make the state more vulnerable and
not more secure. Even if Alaska has full and robust security
protections, any state that fails to provide those protections
put Alaskans at risk. There are a wide range of organizations
that are against [the Real I.D.]. He said there will be greater
incentives to obtain fraudulent I.D.s. Native Alaskans fear the
loss of sovereignty. He said to look at www.realnightmare.org.
CHAIR MCGUIRE set SB 202 aside.
10:16:41 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if the committee had further questions on SB
215.
SENATOR GREEN moved SB 215 from committee with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There being no
objection, the motion carried. [SB 202 was held over.]
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