Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/18/1996 03:35 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 201 FIRE FIGHTING PERSONNEL EMPLOYMENT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:35 p.m. He introduced SB 201 as the first order of
business and noted there was a proposed committee substitute for
the committee's consideration.
GEORGE YASKA , representing the Tanana Chiefs Conference, testified
in support for SB 201. He said it is an issue that has been near
to his heart and the fire fighters in the southern region (DNR's
jurisdiction) for some years. He said it always good to do
preventative work, and he thinks SB 201 does that very well.
Mr. Yaska related that he fought fires for many years in the past,
and in extremely heavy fire-fighting years they could have greatly
benefited from preventative work being done in the low fire-
fighting years. Most of the time that work isn't done primarily
because the statute doesn't allow emergency fire-fighting crews for
non-wildfire suppression.
Number 105
SENATOR TAYLOR moved CSSB 201(RES), draft "C," dated 2/10/96 be
adopted. Hearing no objection, the Chairman stated the committee
substitute was before the committee as a working document.
SENATOR LINCOLN , prime sponsor of SB 201, explained the only
difference in the committee substitute was a clarifying sentence
added on page 2, line 2, which reads: "The assignment of emergency
fire-fighting personnel to nonemergency activities may not be used
to replace permanent or seasonal state employees."
Senator Lincoln said the legislation was introduced to provide the
Department of Natural Resource with the authority to utilize
emergency fire-fighting employees for fire management, fire
suppression and fire prevention activities by adding a new
subsection to AS 41.15.030. Existing law authorizes the
commissioner to hire fire-fighting personnel, but does not
expressly authorize their use for fire prevention, hazard
reduction, or other related activities.
SB 201 would clarify that emergency fire-fighting personnel could
be employed by the department in nonemergency circumstances to
construct and maintain fire breaks and trails, remove brush and
timber, conduct prescribed burns and improve wildlife habitat. The
enactment of the bill into law also will ensure the Department of
Natural Resources to take advantage of existing federal money for
nonemergency fire prevention projects. In FY 95, the Division of
Forestry received approval to receive and expend up to $500,000 in
federal receipts to supply emergency fire-fighting crews to federal
agencies on a reimbursable basis. Presently, of the $500,000 that
is available through federal money, the Department of Natural
Resources has already identified projects totaling $250,000. SB
201 would enable these federal dollars to be utilized by the
already trained fire-fighting crews for the projects that are
identified.
Senator Lincoln said she thinks the impact of the bill is a very
positive one on the state with having up to half a million dollars
of federal money coming into the state, as well as a positive
impact on the state's resources.
Number 217
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted the bill carries zero fiscal notes, but he
wondered how there can be no fiscal impact when the commissioner's
authority for hiring is expanded. SENATOR LINCOLN responded that
it doesn't expend any money; it brings federal money in.
SENATOR TAYLOR also questioned if there shouldn't be a fiscal note
when their is an expenditure of federal funds. NICO BUS , Acting
Director, Division of Support Services, Department of Natural
Resources, clarified that the reason there is not a fiscal note is
because the legislation does not mandate that the department do
anything. It gives the department the statutory authority to
utilize the federal funds for emergency fire-fighting personnel for
fire prevention and other activities. He added that the language
would also allow them to use state money, if appropriated, but
there is no money appropriated for that.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if the department is now doing any fire
suppression, hazard reduction, fire prevention, habitat
restoration, etc., without this explicit authorization. MR. BUS
responded they currently do certain forest management functions,
but they do not use emergency fire crews to perform these
functions.
SENATOR HALFORD questioned how this applies to the fire suppression
fund. SENATOR LINCOLN responded it is her understanding that the
fire suppression dollars are for just that; SB 201 clarifies that
the department can use and extend the federal funds for other
related fire prevention.
Number 322
CRAIG GOODRICH , State Fire Marshall, Division of Fire Prevention,
Department of Public Safety, testifying from Anchorage, said the
state of Alaska expends between $350,000,000 and $400,000,000 a
year on fire and fire suppression related issues, a portion of that
being wild land. He said he thinks it is very easy to overlook the
value of fire prevention efforts and activities, and he can see
nothing in this bill that does more than allow for that to happen.
The bill does nothing but benefit the residents of the state and
those bush communities. He voiced support for the legislation by
the department, the State Fire Chiefs Association and the State
Fire Fighters Association.
RAY SHINN , Director of Natural Resources for the Chitna Traditional
Village Council, as well as manager of the Taslina Hot Shots,
testified from Glennallen in support of SB 201. He said this is
something they have been doing for the past 15 years, and there are
numerous spin-off benefits when something like is done with the
emergency fire-fighting crews throughout the state.
TOM BOUTIN , State Forester, Division of Forestry, Department of
Natural Resources, related there are 73 of the 16-person emergency
fire-fighting crews in the state. The Division of Forestry manages
46 of them and the balance is managed by the Bureau of Land
Management's Alaska Fire Service. Also, the Fire Service has two
20-person hot shot crews, as well as Ray Shinn's type one crew.
Each crew is autonomous; the 16-person crew is normally from a
single village. The average wage, including overtime, paid to
emergency fire fighters in 1995 was $12.76 an hour.
He pointed out that these fire-fighting crews are also sent outside
the state where there is much demand for them when there is a high
fire season. The reports the division gets from the Lower 48 is
that these crews are very hard working, well trained, cost
effective and very safe.
Mr. Boutin also noted that these crews are called out on a
rotational basis, so no one agency's crews are favored. He said in
concept and in practice, that probably should eliminate the concern
that anybody might have that it's an incentive for someone to
originate a fire in order to get work since the rotational basis
would mean that a crew in one part of the state wouldn't
necessarily be the crew that would fight a fire in that part of the
state.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked how Alaska's crews compare with crews outside
of Alaska. MR. BOUTIN related that a report comes back with every
single incident, and the Lower 48 states and the federal agencies
really can't say enough good about the crews that are sent out.
Some crews were sent to the Yukon this past year and the governor
and commissioner received letters back saying what a good account
those people gave of themselves.
Number 470
SENATOR HALFORD said in the first section of the bill the exemption
for the personnel is basically an exemption of the whole State
Personnel Act and that exemption is based on the emergency nature
of fire fighting, etc. He expressed concern about going around the
personnel act for essentially year-round employees doing year-round
work, and he wondered if the Department of Labor had looked at this
legislation. SENATOR LINCOLN replied that she thinks the language
added in the committee substitute addresses his concern, and that
there was some involvement by the Department of Labor in the
legislation.
SENATOR HALFORD asked if there is a way to draft the legislation so
that it would cover only federal money. MR. BOUTIN responded that
there is, but in order to use state money, there would have to be
an appropriation made by the legislature.
SENATOR FRANK said his only concern is that some previous governors
have declared emergencies and then had the authority to spend any
monies in the state treasury, as well as municipal monies. MR.
BOUTIN clarified the intent is to be able to use these emergency
fire fighters, which are the 16-person autonomous crews, for work
in addition to fire suppression as there might be a demand out
there, such as the prescribed burn on the Kenai moose range.
SENATOR HALFORD said there is a special mechanism that allows the
fire suppression fund to go forward outside of its own limits and
outside of the amount of money that's there, and he and Senator
Frank are concerned that there not be an automatic appropriating
mechanism attached to this bill. SENATOR LINCOLN reiterated that
this was not the intent of the legislation and she does not read
the language that way, but if there was a way to modify the
language to address their concern, she would not have a problem
with that. SENATOR FRANK pointed out the bill would be going to
the Finance Committee and they could take a closer look at it
there.
Number 545
SENATOR TAYLOR moved that CSSB 201(RES) be passed out of committee
with individual recommendations. CHAIRMAN LEMAN objected and
stated he wanted to hold the bill until the next meeting in order
to take a closer look at the fiscal notes because there is question
as to whether they meet the requirements for fiscal notes on bills.
SENATOR TAYLOR withdrew his motion to pass CSSB 201(RES) out of
committee.
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