Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 106

04/05/2008 11:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Please Note Time Change --
+ SB 202 PROHIBIT STATE SPENDING FOR REAL ID ACT TELECONFERENCED
Moved HCS SB 202(STA) Out of Committee
+ SB 201 PUBLIC FINANCE WEBSITE TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
SB 201-PUBLIC FINANCE WEBSITE                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:50:49 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN announced  that the last order of business  was CS FOR                                                               
SENATE BILL NO.  201(FIN), "An Act relating  to the establishment                                                               
and maintenance  of an Internet website  providing public finance                                                               
information; and  identifying the information to  be available on                                                               
the Internet website."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:51:07 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MICHELLE SYDEMAN, Staff, Senator  Bill Wielechowski, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, presented SB 201 on  behalf of Senator Wielechowski,                                                               
prime sponsor.  She paraphrased her written introduction, which                                                                 
read as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The intent of  SB 201, the Alaska  Open Government Act,                                                                    
     is to  mandate creation  of a free,  searchable website                                                                    
     that  provides Alaskans  with easy  access to  detailed                                                                    
     information on state spending.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Such  a website  will  foster  better understanding  of                                                                    
     state operations  and, ultimately, ensure  that funding                                                                    
     is directed to the state's most important needs.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Creation of  similar websites  is occurring  across the                                                                    
     country.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     In  2006, President  Bush  signed  the Federal  Funding                                                                    
     Accountability and  Transparency Act.   This  Act calls                                                                    
     for the  creation of a  searchable website  for federal                                                                    
     contracts  and  grants  of  more  than  $25,000.    The                                                                    
     website       recently       went      on-line       at                                                                    
     www.federalspending.gov.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Interestingly,  this legislation  was introduced  years                                                                    
     ago  by  a  bipartisan  team  of  four  U.S.  senators,                                                                    
     including senators John McCain and Barak Obama.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Last  year, five  states  --  Kansas, Texas,  Oklahoma,                                                                    
     Minnesota, and  Hawaii -- passed  legislation mandating                                                                    
     the  creation of  on-line databases  with comprehensive                                                                    
     information on their state's expenditures.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
       Efforts are underway in 17 other states to pass so-                                                                      
     called  "taxpayer  transparency  acts,"  including  New                                                                    
     Mexico, Colorado, Washington, and North Dakota.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     A   national  consensus   is  emerging,   supported  by                                                                    
     advocates from  both ends  of the  political spectrum--                                                                    
     from  Ralph Nadar  to  Grover Norquist--that  taxpayers                                                                    
     should  be  able  to  easily   track  and  help  direct                                                                    
     government spending.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Real  accountability and  good decision-making  require                                                                    
     an   informed  public,   a   public   with  access   to                                                                    
     information  on  government  spending at  their  finger                                                                    
     tips.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     While  Senator  Wielechowski  first learned  about  the                                                                    
     benefits of "taxpayer transparency  acts" at a National                                                                    
     Conference of  State Legislatures meeting  last August,                                                                    
     this  is   an  issue  that  Governor   Palin  has  also                                                                    
     embraced.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The  senator applauds  her for  the commitment  made by                                                                    
     her Administration  to begin  implementation of  such a                                                                    
     system.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     This  bill  would  put  the  requirement  for  a  free,                                                                    
     publicly searchable  database in  statute, so  that all                                                                    
     future  governors  will  show the  same  commitment  to                                                                    
     transparency and accountability.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     This is  good public policy, worthy  of being enshrined                                                                    
     in statute.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SB  201  also  provides  guidance as  to  the  type  of                                                                    
     information  that  a   public  finance  website  should                                                                    
     contain.   While  the Administration's  current website                                                                    
     can best  be described as an  "on-line checkbook," this                                                                    
     bill  calls  for  inclusion of  information  that  will                                                                    
     provide a context for daily expenditures.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     For  example it  calls  for a  listing  of total  state                                                                    
     expenditures over  the past 10  years and  a comparison                                                                    
     of revenues received versus funds expended.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     It also  requites an  accounting, which  can be  in the                                                                    
     form  of a  simple bar  chart, of  the total  number of                                                                    
     state employees over each of the past 10 years.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     This information is currently  available in other state                                                                    
     publications,   but  will   be  compiled   on-line  and                                                                    
     presented  in   clear  manner   for  all   Alaskans  to                                                                    
     understand.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The fiscal note  for accomplishing this is  zero, as it                                                                    
     can be accomplished by  existing webmasters and finance                                                                    
     staff.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     In closing, we  ask for your support of SB  201 and the                                                                    
     right  of   all  Alaskans  to  easily   accessible  and                                                                    
     detailed  information on  how their  dollars are  being                                                                    
     spent.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:55:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYDEMAN, in response to  a question from Representative Doll,                                                               
said most state expenditures over $1,000 would be listed.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:55:41 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN  said he would be  extremely surprised if                                                               
the Department of Administration  (DOA) could do anything without                                                               
requesting money  for it.   He warned, "And  if it's not  in this                                                               
fiscal note,  I can  almost guarantee  you that  when we  get the                                                               
operating budget  next year,  there'll be  something in  there to                                                               
implement this."  He said he  would pay extreme attention to this                                                               
issue, and he said he would  like to hear from the administration                                                               
how it plans to "accomplish this without spending one dime."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:56:21 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  directed attention to the  reference in                                                               
the bill to the  amount of $1,000, found on page 4,  line 10.  He                                                               
said  while  that  language   limits  expenditures  greater  than                                                               
$1,000, it  does not  seem to limit  income sources  over $1,000.                                                               
He asked if  it is the sponsor's intent to  require only category                                                               
receipts, or  "are you going  to do every little  $20 dollar[s]?"                                                               
He  suggested  having  $1,000  "on  that,  too"  to  avoid  being                                                               
"inundated with stuff."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:57:22 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SYDEMAN stated  her understanding  that the  proposed online                                                               
checkbook  component  would  be   updated  on  a  monthly  basis;                                                               
therefore, all the monthly funds  received would be aggregated on                                                               
a monthly basis into certain  categories.  She suggested that Ms.                                                               
Garnero might be able to offer a better answer.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:58:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS NELSON,  Alaskans for  Tax Reform,  testified on  behalf of                                                               
Alaskans for  Tax Reform  in support  of SB 201.   He  noted that                                                               
Americans for Tax Reform, in  Washington, D.C., also supports the                                                               
proposed  legislation.   He  echoed that  this  measure is  being                                                               
considered in  other states.   He said  information in  Alaska is                                                               
available  but difficult  to find.   He  said putting  together a                                                               
single,  searchable  web  portal  will  streamline  the  research                                                               
process,  resulting in  people's increased  involvement in  their                                                               
state government.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:59:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  mentioned  a report  card  related  to                                                               
state governments, and  he said he thinks the  proposed bill will                                                               
increase Alaska's marks for getting  information available to the                                                               
public.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. NELSON concurred that the  passage of the proposed bill would                                                               
result in  Alaska's getting high  marks from people  who evaluate                                                               
the efficiency of state government  and "its commitment to making                                                               
information  available."   Furthermore,  he  suggested that  even                                                               
higher  marks would  come from  members of  the public  who "have                                                               
honest questions, but  really don't know where to go  to find the                                                               
answers."   The bill would  provide a  web portal with  access to                                                               
more information,  which "will help  ensure a more  informed, and                                                               
therefore   more   active,   electorate,  and   a   more   active                                                               
population."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
12:01:23 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  directed   attention  to  language  in                                                               
Section 5  of the bill,  which read,  "the list shall  be updated                                                               
monthly  or annually,  as specified."   He  asked if  the sponsor                                                               
means "as specified in the Act, here."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYDEMAN answered  yes.  She explained that  there are certain                                                               
types  of  information that  would  be  provided annually  -  the                                                               
"bigger  picture ...  snapshots"  - to  help  provide a  context.                                                               
Then the ongoing checkbook would be updated monthly.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  explained that he would  like it stated                                                               
for the record that "as specified"  means in the Act, rather than                                                               
"by some agency."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYDEMAN responded, "In the Act."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:02:18 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  directed attention  to page 3,  lines [7-                                                               
8], which read:                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
           (2) expenditures for the preceding month,                                                                            
     including                                                                                                                  
            (A) the name and location of any person                                                                             
     to whom payment was made;                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked if  that would include  welfare and                                                               
child enforcement  checks, which  could "possibly  render someone                                                               
capable of tracking someone to do them harm."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:02:51 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI, Alaska  State  Legislature, testifying  as                                                               
prime sponsor  of SB 201,  explained that those  expenditures are                                                               
excluded, as shown in Section 3, on page 4, line 14.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:03:22 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG questioned  if there  might be  another                                                               
type of  payment to an  individual that would not  be categorized                                                               
as state  or federal  assistance, for  example, a  permanent fund                                                               
dividend payment.   He said he thinks  Representative Johnson has                                                               
touched upon  an important point  - the consideration  to protect                                                               
people from, for example, stalkers.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:03:50 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN directed attention  to page 4, lines 3-7,                                                               
which read as follows:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          (d)  Nothing in this section requires disclosure                                                                      
     of  information that  is  confidential  under state  or                                                                    
     federal    law.       However,   the    Department   of                                                                    
     Administration shall  provide aggregated  or summarized                                                                    
     information   describing   confidential   revenue   and                                                                    
     expenditures   if   the    aggregated   or   summarized                                                                    
     information continues to protect confidentiality.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   JOHANSEN   asked,   "Would  that   protect   the                                                               
confidentiality of information?"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  answered yes.   He offered his  belief that                                                               
permanent  fund  dividend  information   has  already  been  made                                                               
confidential in statute.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  if a  private contractor  with the                                                               
state could  say he/she does  not want payments  released because                                                               
of confidentiality problems.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
12:04:23 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYDEMAN  said the  Department of  Law is  currently reviewing                                                               
"the 20  different categories of information"  to determine which                                                               
types would be considered confidential  and which would not.  She                                                               
offered  her understanding  that  a person  would  have to  "have                                                               
solid legal ground"  to argue that certain  information should be                                                               
kept confidential.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  described  "the constitution"  as  being                                                               
solid,   legal   ground,   guaranteeing   him   the   "right   to                                                               
confidentiality."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN  queried, "But this  does not really  identify anybody                                                               
by name, does it?"                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MULTIPLE  UNIDENTIFIED  VOICES  confirmed   that  the  bill  does                                                               
exactly that.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:05:54 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  explained, for  example, that  a contractor                                                               
who takes  a bid  out with the  state would be  listed.   He said                                                               
that is exactly  his intent.  He clarified, "You  lose your right                                                               
to  privacy  the moment  you  enter  in  your contract  with  the                                                               
state."   He reiterated  that the  citizens of  the state  have a                                                               
right to find out what the state is spending money on.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  said he  does  not  think legal  opinion                                                               
would trump the Constitution of the  State of Alaska.  He said he                                                               
thinks  a  contractor  may  have some  grounds  to  have  his/her                                                               
privacy  protected, unless  he/she  signs that  right  away.   He                                                               
added, "And  I'm pretty  sure that you  can't contract  away your                                                               
constitutional right."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  confirmed that a  person has -  through the                                                               
Constitution  of  the State  of  Alaska  -  a right  of  privacy;                                                               
however, the citizens also have the  right to find out what their                                                               
state is  spending money on.   If the state is  spending money on                                                               
public contracts,  then that information  is public.   He pointed                                                               
out  that citizens  currently  have  that right  and  can file  a                                                               
freedom of  information request;  the bill  does not  change that                                                               
public aspect  of the information,  but only proposes  to compile                                                               
it into one, concise database.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LYNN indicated  that  the state's  money  is the  people's                                                               
money.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:07:02 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  told  Representative  Johnson  that  a                                                               
person  can  contract  away  his/her state  rights  by  means  of                                                               
"Miranda warnings."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:07:22 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI, in  response  to Representative  Johansen,                                                               
reconfirmed  that  the  bill  would  not  expand  the  amount  of                                                               
information obtained  by the state.   In response to  Chair Lynn,                                                               
he said  the perfect  example has  to do  with the  operating and                                                               
capital budgets of the state.   He explained that it is difficult                                                               
to find  items in  the budget,  and SB 201  proposes to  create a                                                               
searchable database to help locate those items.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:09:09 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KIM  GARNERO,  Director,  Division   of  Finance,  Department  of                                                               
Administration, in  response to Representative  Gruenberg's prior                                                               
question as  to how revenues  would be presented on  the proposed                                                               
web  site, related  that while  expenditures would  show who  was                                                               
paid,  revenues would  not show  who  [the state]  got the  money                                                               
from, but would show "the flavor of money by the account code."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG  asked,   "And   it   will  be   large                                                               
aggregates?"                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARNERO answered, "Absolutely aggregate."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked  what the cost to  other states has                                                               
been to run this program.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARNERO  recollected that  State of  Missouri has  spent over                                                               
$100,000 to  create a  database; however, she  said the  State of                                                               
Alaska would  be using  a simpler  version on  Excel, which  is a                                                               
tool already  available to the state.   She said, "I  have had no                                                               
complaints from any of the people  I've talked to - on what we've                                                               
posted on  the web site  so far - that  they've not been  able to                                                               
access the information."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GARNERO related  that the  state  now uses  a version  which                                                               
provides  a  "checkbook  detail," and  the  proposed  legislation                                                               
would add on to that.   She mentioned an annual financial report,                                                               
and said:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
      Publishing those -- this is already on the web as a                                                                       
        document as a whole.  Publishing in this public                                                                         
     finance (indisc. -- coughing) is no additional cost.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GARNERO said  the  division  has been  working  on its  data                                                               
warehouse  -  called,  "the   Alaska  Date  Enterprise  Reporting                                                               
System" -  since July of  2006, and would  not have been  able to                                                               
produce its Excel spreadsheets without that new system.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:11:38 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN  said his  pet peeve  is redundancy.   He                                                               
asked if  it would be  possible, if the  bill passes and  all the                                                               
information  becomes available  on a  single web  site, to  avoid                                                               
creating  two or  three  separate reports  relating  to the  same                                                               
information.  He used the Alaska  Department of Fish & Game in an                                                               
example.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:13:07 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARNERO  replied that  the information  that the  division is                                                               
publishing  on  the  web  site   is  coming  from  its  statewide                                                               
accounting  system.   She said,  "If [these]  tickets generate  a                                                               
revenue,  which I  don't  know  if they  do  or  not, then  those                                                               
revenues would  be reflected in our  statewide accounting system.                                                               
We'd publish  from there; it would  have nothing to do  with [the                                                               
Alaska  Department  of]  Fish  & Game."    Regarding  the  annual                                                               
financial report, she said the  division delivers a copy to every                                                               
legislator's  office  each  January.   She  asked  if  value  was                                                               
obtained by having a hard copy of that report.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
12:14:05 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated  that he finds value  in having a                                                               
hard copy and wants the division to continue to disperse them.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
12:14:18 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GARNERO  noted  that  the division  prints  fewer  than  400                                                               
copies.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:14:29 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN  said he  does not  want to  get specific                                                               
about the publications;  he clarified that he just  wants to know                                                               
whether  the  proposed web  site  can  "supplant other  forms  of                                                               
getting the information to the public."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:15:09 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARNERO responded  that the division would  not add employees                                                               
to produce  the proposed web  site, and  she said she  doubts "it                                                               
will be freeing anybody up."   She stated, "It's a publication of                                                               
existing information on a public finance web site."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:15:32 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN closed public testimony.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:15:41 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG moved  to report  CSSB 201(FIN)  out of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal  notes.   There  being  no  objection, CSSB  201(FIN)  was                                                               
reported out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                     

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