Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205
02/20/2024 01:30 PM Senate TRANSPORTATION
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB199 | |
| Executive Order No. 131 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 199 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 199-STATE LAND: DISPOSAL/SALE/LEASE/RESTRICT
1:36:02 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 199
"An Act relating to access roads; relating to state land;
relating to contracts for the sale of state land; relating to
the authority of the Department of Education and Early
Development to dispose of state land; relating to the authority
of the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to
dispose of state land; relating to the authority of the
Department of Natural Resources over certain state land;
relating to the state land disposal income fund; relating to the
sale and lease of state land; relating to covenants and
restrictions on agricultural land; and providing for an
effective date."
This is the second hearing of SB 199 in the Senate
Transportation Committee.
1:37:03 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN solicited a motion.
1:37:09 PM
SENATOR WILSON moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for
SB 199, work order 33-GS2634\B, as the working document.
1:37:20 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN objected for purposes of discussion.
1:37:32 PM
EMMA TORKELSON, Staff, Senator James Kaufman, Alaska State
Legislature, explained the summary of changes for SB 199.
[Original punctuation provided.]
SB 199 Explanation of Changes, Version A to B
"An Act relating to access roads; relating to state
land; relating to contracts for the sale of state
land; relating to the authority of the Department of
Education and Early Development to dispose of state
land; relating to the authority of the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities to dispose of
state land; relating to the acceptance of gifts,
donations, and grants by the Department of Natural
Resources; relating to accounting for certain program
receipts; relating to the authority of the Department
of Natural Resources over certain state land; relating
to the state land disposal income fund; relating to
the sale and lease of state land; relating to
covenants and restrictions on agricultural land; and
providing for an effective date."
Title Change. Page 1, Line 4: Adds "relating to the
acceptance of gifts, donations, and grants by the
Department of Natural Resources; relating to
accounting for certain program receipts;" to the
title.
Section 3. Page 4, Lines 11-19: Requires the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to
offer land they have determined fit for disposal to
the DNR before they can dispose of the land
themselves. The DNR has 45 days to accept, reject, or
ignore the offer. If the offer is not accepted within
45 days, DOTP&F may dispose of the land according to
standards established by the DNR commissioner.
1:38:37 PM
MS. TORKELSON continued explaining the summary of changes:
[Original punctuation provided.}
Section 4, Page 4, Lines 22-24 and Section 8 Lines 10-
22: Authorizes the Department of Natural Resources to
accept gifts, donations and grants to the department
for the purpose of providing signage for an asset
under the control of the department, in accordance
with a memorandum of understanding agreed on by the
donor and the department.
Section 13. Page 8, Lines 15-16: Clarifies that "if
requested" refers to a requested hearing under (d) of
this section.
Section 17. Page 14, Lines 1-12: Requires the DNR
commissioner to prepare an report for each property
deemed appropriate for commercial development that
describes the municipal and state government services
that the commissioner anticipates would be required
and the municipal and state tax revenue that would be
required to provide those services in the identified
area, if the land is commercially developed.
Section 9, Page 7 Lines 1-2; Section 16, Page 9, Line
31; Section 17, Page 11, Lines 7-8, 9, 11, 21 and Page
12, Lines 22 and 25: Minor technical changes are made
to conform the language to statutory drafting
standards.
1:40:04 PM
SENATOR WILSON asked if the intent of Section 17, lines 1-12 is
for DNR to prepare a property for commercial development prior
to a land sale.
1:40:29 PM
MS. TORKELSON deferred the question, suggesting DNR or Senator
Myers answer the question.
1:40:39 PM
SENATOR MYERS provided a hypothetical example in which economic
development leads to increased demand for state and municipal
services. He suggested that, in a Qualified Economic Opportunity
Zone, there is the potential for less tax revenue to offset the
increased cost of services. He said the purpose of the proposed
report is to provide a prudent analysis that demonstrates the
impact of commercial development in a community. The report
would project the anticipated costs and tax revenue to show
whether tax revenue is expected to meet the costs or not.
1:42:05 PM
SENATOR MYERS expressed concern about the language in Section 4,
page 4, lines 22-24 and Section 8, lines 10-22, which states
that the department can accept gifts and donations for signage.
He asked about DNR's authority to name things and whether this
language could create conflict when accepting donations for
signage.
1:42:53 PM
CHRISTY COLLES, Director, Division of Mining, Land and Water,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Anchorage, Alaska,
answered that DNR has limited authority to name things. DNR can
name things it established such as subdivisions or trails. She
stated she would get back to the committee regarding who has the
authority to name things like mountains or lakes.
1:43:29 PM
SENATOR MYERS expressed concern that a private entity might,
hypothetically, offer a donation and expect in return to be
allowed to name a trail or other public facility.
1:44:11 PM
SENATOR WILSON responded that Department of Transportation and
Public Facilities (DOTPF) does have the authority to accept
donations for signage and the intent of Section 4, page 4, lines
22-24 and Section 8 lines 10-22 is that the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) would also have the authority to accept
gifts from communities or private entities to replace damaged or
lost signs. He said examples would be "No Dumping" or "No
Trespassing" or other signs that have been vandalized or
removed. He asserted that it is a good example of statute
supporting public-private partnership at no cost to the state.
1:45:31 PM
SENATOR MYERS expressed support for the intent of the language
in Section 4, page 4, lines 22-24 and Section 8, lines 10. He
said he is concerned about creating a regrettable loophole.
1:46:15 PM
SENATOR WILSON expressed confidence that the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) would implement a reasonable and
thoughtful process and develop regulations for accepting
donations for signage and for naming things and that the public
process would prevent potential abuse of this by the public.
1:46:55 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN solicited comments from Department of Natural
Resources (DNR).
MS. COLLES said Department of Natural Resources (DNR) does not
have the authority to name major landmarks.
1:47:18 PM
SENATOR MYERS explained that he understands it would be up to
the federal government to name a mountain or a lake, but opined
there is a potential for problems when naming things that DNR
creates and controls like a trail.
1:47:36 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked Department of Natural Resources (DNR) if
they have policies and procedures in place, especially in State
parks, to govern the naming of things like cabins and trails. He
assumes there are safeguards in place to prevent prank names.
1:48:06 PM
MS. COLLES said she does not have the rules in front of her, but
she related an example of a public facility in the Knik River
Public Use Area that was named for a community member in
recognition of and expressing appreciation for his contributions
to the community. When it comes to other larger projects, she
would need to consult someone with more expertise.
1:48:54 PM
SENATOR KIEHL affirmed the value of the provision in Section 4,
page 4, lines 22-24 and Section 8, line 10 and offered to follow
up with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to ensure good
processes for naming are in place. He cited several examples of
community involvement in naming things, that it was a good
thing, and expressed confidence about working with DNR to review
naming policies.
1:49:33 PM
SENATOR MYERS said he is happy that the concern is on record and
that it will be addressed in later committee hearings if
necessary; and that it will be reflected either in SB 199 or in
regulation.
1:50:17 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN removed his objection; he found no further
objection and CSSB 199, work order 33-GS2634\B was adopted as
the working document.
1:50:22 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN asked if there was further discussion on CSSB 199.
1:50:26 PM
SENATOR TOBIN asked that a representative from Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) expound on points in its February 19th
Memo to members, to alleviate concerns around potential shifts
in transportation planning in and around Senate District I.
1:51:16 PM
RACHEL LONGACRE, Chief of Operations, Division of Mining, Land
and Water, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Anchorage,
Alaska, answered questions on SB 199 and expounded on: February
19, 2024 memo.
MS. LONGACRE said she provided both maps and documentation for
District I, in particular. The areas of concern for the
Qualified Economic Opportunity Zones and commercial development
opportunity that are DNR property would have to go through a
very public process to convey if they were under a lease-to-sale
program. However, she said, there is no settlement land
available for the DNR lease-to-sale program in District I, but
there are lands that have been transferred and conveyed fully to
the municipality of Anchorage that could be considered for
commercial development under their authority. Those actions
wouldn't involve the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) or
the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF).
MS. LONGACRE further explained that land held by the Department
of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) in District I
would not be affected by SB 199 because SB 199 amends AS 35,
which does not apply to right-of-way corridors.
SENATOR TOBIN expressed appreciation for the explanation on
behalf of her constituents.
1:52:26 PM
SENATOR MYERS observed that land must be designated as
"settlement land" to be eligible for conveyance. He noted that
there are other classifications for land, including: "heritage
resource land", "wildlife habitat land", "transportation
corridor land", etc. He said he understood why the state would
retain those, but asked why lands like agricultural land would
not be available to sell. He said he thinks agricultural land
would be at the top of the list to sell and get into use. He
asked why land must be classified as "settlement land" first
[prior to conveyance].
1:53:15 PM
MS. COLLES answered that agricultural land can be conveyed but
must be used specifically for agricultural purposes. She said
there are other classifications, such as "reserved use" that can
be conveyed to municipalities or state agencies for specific
uses. "Settlement land" is used to designate lands to be
conveyed for residential use or personal use, where some of the
others are for other specific uses that can be conveyed.
1:54:03 PM
SENATOR KIEHL sought to clarify language in SB 199. He referred
to page 4, line 12 and suggested replacing "may" with a stronger
non-discretionary word and stated he wanted to offer a
conceptual amendment.
1:55:26 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN asked if there was a motion.
1:55:27 PM
SENATOR KIEHL moved Conceptual Amendment 1 to CSSB 199, work
order 33-GS2634\B:
CONCEPTUAL AMENDMENT 1
BY SENATOR KIEHL
Page 4, line 12 following "department"
Delete "may"
Insert "shall"
1:55:28 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN objected for purposes of discussion.
1:55:34 PM
SENATOR WILSON asked for confirmation that the proposal is to
change "may" to "shall."
CHAIR KAUFMAN asked Senator Kiehl to provide a description of
Conceptual Amendment 1 for Legislative Legal Services.
1:56:09 PM
SENATOR KIEHL said on page 4, line 12, change "may" to "shall"
to create a clear order of operations. He explained that when
the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF)
identifies land no longer needed for public works, they would
offer it to DNR. If DNR accepts the land, the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) would, without
discretion, transfer the land to DNR. If DNR declines or allows
the 45-day limit to expire, the Department of Transportation and
Public Facilities (DOTPF) would have discretion to lease, sell
or otherwise dispose of the land.
1:56:48 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN maintained his objection for purposes of
discussion and asked if DNR had any concerns about Conceptual
Amendment 1.
MS. COLLES replied that DNR was neutral on Conceptual Amendment
1.
1:57:12 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN removed his objection.
1:57:22 PM
At ease.
1:57:51 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN reconvened the meeting.
1:57:57 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN found no further objection and Conceptual
Amendment 1 to CSSB 199 was adopted.
1:58:18 PM
At ease
1:58:28 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN reconvened the meeting and authorized Legislative
Legal Services to make technical and conforming changes to
Conceptual Amendment 1.
1:58:37 PM
At ease
1:59:23 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN reconvened the meeting and solicited a motion.
1:59:32 PM
SENATOR WILSON moved to report CSSB 199, work order 33-GS2634/B,
as amended, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached fiscal note(s).
2:00:22 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN found no objection and CSSB 199 (TRA) was reported
from the Senate Transportation Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 199 DNR Follow Up Answers to Questions 02.19.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
SB 199 |
| EO 131 Transmittal Letter 1.15.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 Full Text.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 Legislative Legal Memo 1.23.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| CSSB 199 Work Draft Version B.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
SB 199 |
| SB 199 Explanation of Changes v. A to S.pdf |
SRES 2/21/2024 3:30:00 PM STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
SB 199 |
| EO 131 Public Testimony Recieved as of 2.19.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 Public Testimony Recieved as of 2.22.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 AMHOB Board Member Testimony 2.22.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |