Legislature(2015 - 2016)BUTROVICH 205
03/15/2016 03:30 PM Senate EDUCATION
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB191 | |
| HB76 | |
| SB190 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 191 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 190 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 76 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 191-LIMIT ABORTION SERV. PROVIDERS IN SCHOOLS
3:32:10 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY announced the consideration of SB 191. He invited
Joshua Decker to testify.
3:33:23 PM
JOSHUA DECKER, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), presented
information on SB 191. He noted he submitted written testimony
on March 3 stating that SB 191 is unconstitutional because the
goal itself violates the Alaska and U.S. Constitutions. It is
too broad and prohibits any person who works for, or is a
representative of, any place that provides abortions from
talking about any subject in a public school. It is not a carbon
copy of SB 89 that prohibits abortion services providers from
discussing sexual education and information about STD's. He
provided examples.
He addressed the Draconian aspects in the bill. He used the
example of a cardiologist from a hospital who teaches CPR would
be penalized along with the hospital that would be fined $5,000
per student, and the teacher would lose his or her job. These
prohibitions violate Alaskan's right to speak and associate
freely. They also violate the Alaskan protection clause, which
says the government may not play favorites based on a safe,
constitutional medical procedure. The government may design
curricula and determine what is taught in schools, but it cannot
control how a teacher spends their free time or what they talk
about outside of school. He stated that it is illegal for the
government to interfere with the freedom to associate or how
people spend their free time in private. This bill provides many
profound problems. He said the state has spent about $1 million
of taxpayer money to support unconstitutional bills.
3:39:00 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked whether the school and the state have the
right to limit outside groups from schools.
MR. DECKER said the government cannot exercise that control in a
discriminatory way, such as in this bill. An individual who
works for a women's center or hospital that performs abortions
cannot be singled out. The government has to have a legitimate
constitutional interest to act.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked whether the public school is an open access
forum for any group to come into if they so choose.
MR. DECKER replied that schools are a limited access forum.
There are censorship limits schools are able to exercise. The
bill applies to every topic and discriminates against people
based on who they are, what they say, and with whom they
associate in their private time.
3:42:04 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said he has an amendment that might address some
of the issues. He used examples of the Americans for Prosperity
or a Koch Brothers subsidiary wanting to come into the schools
to teach economics or government. He asked if the school must
allow those groups to come in.
3:43:04 PM
MR. DECKER restated the question. He replied that the school
does not have to allow those groups in. However, the school
cannot pass a law that forbids a person who associates with
those organizations to teach a class. The school can make a
decision on a case-by-case basis based on local concerns.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if the state can create a law that limits
certain groups from going into a school to teach.
MR. DECKER said if the state would pass a law with those limits,
it would have to do so in a constitutionally neutral way and in
a way that demonstrates a legitimate government interest.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if the school can allow the Catholic Church
to teach family values in classes.
MR. DECKER said the First Amendment - freedom of religion -
would pose hurdles that would require the church to discuss
secular topics.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY thanked the presenter.
3:47:59 PM
LACY MORAN, Education Manager, Planned Parenthood of the Great
Northwest and Hawaiian Islands, testified in opposition to SB
191. She maintained that SB 191 limits resources to already
strapped schools and does not allow schools to partner with
much-needed resources. She related that she is part of the
education team that has provided information, resources, and
materials to several communities across Alaska using medically
accurate, age appropriate, and culturally sensitive lessons. She
said she works with schools and districts to ensure that these
lessons are vetted and aligned with district curriculum and
standards. In addition, the lessons have been approved by the
Office of Adolescent Health. Parents have the opportunity to opt
their students out of this education. She noted that Planned
Parenthood has partnered with schools to offer parent workshops.
She said that Planned Parenthood currently offers educational
services to schools in a variety of ways. It provides
educational presentations, peer education programs such as Teen
Council, and is a resource of health information outside of the
classroom.
She concluded that districts, schools, and the youth of Alaska
will suffer if SB 191 passes. She pointed out that Alaska leads
the rates in STD's, child sexual abuse, and higher than average
rates of teen pregnancy. Research has proven that comprehensive,
medically accurate sex education is a key component in reducing
these risks in teens.
3:50:52 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked what part of the curriculum contains any
discussion on abortion.
MS. MORAN said the curriculum contains no information about
abortion services.
SENATOR GARDNER asked what happens if a student asks about
abortion.
MS. MORAN said it is fairly rare that questions or conversations
about abortion come up, but if they do, the teacher explains
that it is not a part of the curriculum and refers them to their
parents or a trusted adult.
SENATOR GARDNER asked for clarification of the opt-out
provision.
MS. MORAN noted that every district in Alaska has a different
protocol for opting out. She described the ways Planned
Parenthood provide information to districts about their
curriculum so districts can communicate with parents. She listed
a variety of ways that is done, with a letter, a curriculum
night, or information in a syllabus at the beginning of the
year.
3:52:54 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked if the district always sees the curriculum
before students do.
MS. MORAN said every district is different and Planned
Parenthood identifies the district person or persons they will
be working with before they go into the classroom. Often it
involves the teacher, the principal, and other district staff.
SENATOR GARDNER asked if it has ever happened that a district
has decided not to have the lessons after seeing them.
MS. MORAN said no.
3:54:14 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked how many schools Planned Parenthood has
presentations in currently.
MS. MORAN said their involvement is delivered both by lessons
and by resources and materials.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY requested information on both.
MS. MORAN explained that during the past year they were involved
in approximately 25 to 30 schools. Several more schools used
their materials and resources.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked how the lessons are presented and for what
time period.
MS. MORAN said every district is different. Some schools ask for
one day, some want three days, some want multiple weeks.
3:56:15 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked for the minimum number of days required to
effectively have a lesson.
MS. MORAN said it depends on the size of the school, the topics,
and what district curriculum standards are to be addressed.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked in what grade levels classes take place.
MS. MORAN said mostly high schools and sometimes in middle
schools, such as in 8th grade health where comprehensive sexual
education is part of the district standard.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if they provide lessons in elementary
schools.
MS. MORAN said they do not currently. They do offer parent
workshops for parents and their elementary-aged students.
3:57:58 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked how the teen outreach program works and its
goals.
MS. MORAN explained that the Teen Outreach Program (TOP) is no
longer offered in Alaska. It was a youth development program
that was not a Planned Parenthood curriculum, but an evidence-
based positive youth curriculum. It used to be offered in
Anchorage but the grant ended. She noted that youth development
is an important part of their curriculum.
She said Teen Council is a peer education program that is 25
years old. It takes place outside of the school day and the
benefit is that teens get 80 hours of training per year. They
are able to use that training in partnerships with health
educators in the classroom.
4:00:01 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL asked who funded the TOP program.
MS. MORAN replied that the federal funding came from the Office
of Adolescent Health.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked which program takes place in Juneau.
MS. MORAN said Teen Council is offered in Juneau and Anchorage.
SENATOR GARDNER asked whether Planned Parenthood offers college
programs and resources.
MS. MORAN said they currently don't have a college-based
program, but are a resource to several universities in Alaska
and offer guest lectures.
4:01:29 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked what Generation Action is.
MS. MORAN explained that Generation Action is a student group
that sponsors events and works with Planned Parenthood but is
considered a separate group outside of their education
department.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY thanked Ms. Moran. He asked Dr. McCauley whether
SB 191 would impact HB 44, which passed last special session.
4:02:18 PM
SUSAN MCCAULEY, Interim Commissioner, Department of Education
and Early Development (DEED), provided information on SB 191.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if this bill would change HB 44 - Erin's
Law/Bree's Law.
DR. MCCAULEY addressed the elements of HB 44 that might be
affected by other legislation: the training programs required
for sexual abuse and sexual assault awareness and prevention,
and for dating violence and abuse. She said in SB 191, the
limitations are not content specific. The provisions in SB 191
have application for the individuals that would provide
instruction for those training programs, however, there is no
conflict with HB 44 because that bill speaks generally about who
may or may not address topics.
SENATOR GARDNER asked if Dr. McCauley is aware of any other
statute or school district policy about who may or may not
address students.
DR. MCCAULEY said she is not aware of any.
4:05:44 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY highlighted AS 14.03.090 - Partisan Sectarian or
Denominational Doctrines Prohibited. He read: "Partisan,
sectarian or denominational doctrines may not be advocated in a
public school during the hours a school is in session. A teacher
or a school board violating this section may not receive public
money." He noted he was working with Legislative Legal to obtain
a definition of "partisan" that discusses what public money
could be used for.
He said the Southern Poverty Law Group lists many hatred groups.
He is trying to find out if a school can ask the Nation of Islam
to talk about race relations or the American Nazi Party to talk
about government. He maintained that districts do not have to
allow all groups to come into their schools to present. Some may
consider them to be partisan groups. This statute limits what
can be brought into the classroom in terms of a world view.
4:07:47 PM
SENATOR STEVENS stated that he served on a school board for
three years and he opined that school boards have the
responsibility for deciding what is going to be taught and who
is going to teach it. He asked Dr. McCauley to comment.
DR. MCCAULEY related that the statutory and primarily regulatory
language regarding curricula is that those decisions are
traditionally left up to school districts. It is a broad
direction in regulation regarding what differentiates between
the Department of Education's role and the local school
district's role. For the issue of curricula, current regulatory
language indicates that is it the responsibility of the local
board.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the district could decide whether they
wanted Planned Parenthood in schools or not.
DR. MCCAULEY said under the current statutory and regulatory
language that is true.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked whether a school district could refuse to
implement HB 44.
Dr. MCCAULEY said they could not.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked Mr. Bird to discuss the legal issues
related to SB 191.
4:09:41 PM
MARIO BIRD, Attorney, Ross, Miner, Bird, P.C. Attorneys at Law,
and Board Member, Alaska Right to Life, answered questions
related to SB 191. He said Alaska is not the first state to pass
this legislation as both Louisiana and Missouri have versions of
this law, both which stated that abortion providers could not
teach on health topics or human sexuality. Louisiana's
legislation also included the phrase "acting on behalf of an
organization, individual, or any other entity that performs
elective abortions shall engage in any of the following
activities."
He stated that the current version of SB 191 lacks two key
phrases included in Louisiana's legislation, the "acting on
behalf of" phrase and one on "health topics." Mr. Decker's
testimony pointed out that in the current language of SB 191,
someone who is a representative of Planned Parenthood cannot
teach on any topic and the inclusion of Louisiana's phrases
would prevent legal challenges because it narrows what a
representative of an abortion provider can instruct.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if there were constitutional challenges to
Louisiana and Missouri's laws.
MR. BIRD said he does not know of any challenges. He referred to
a memo on the Education Committee's website from Mr. Norton of
the Colorado Freedom Institute, which he agrees with, that
states that there have been no legal challenges in any court.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY asked if a Supreme Court is the only body that
can make a decision about the constitutionality of any law.
MR. BIRD related that the Alaska Supreme Court and the U.S.
Supreme Court have jurisdiction to determine the
constitutionality of laws. He is aware of no federal or state
ruling that has declared this law unconstitutional.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY wanted to ensure Supreme Courts determine the
constitutionality of laws.
MR. BIRD agreed, as it applies to all laws and to SB 191.
4:15:57 PM
SENATOR GARDNER brought up the bill of attainder - a law that is
targeted against only one entity or person. She asked how many
abortion providers are in Louisiana and Missouri.
MR. BIRD did not know, but assumed there were more than one.
SENATOR GARDNER said Alaska's Constitution is often held up as a
model. She asked why Alaska's Constitution is different from
Louisiana and Missouri's in issues impacted by SB 191.
MR. BIRD explained that the bill of attainder generally means
you can't specify that a person can be jailed or penalized
without due process. He said he saw the memo drafted by Kate
Glover from Legislative Counsel for Senator Gardner that cites a
federal case in North Carolina where there was an injunction
granted for bill of attainder purposes. He said the whole
lawsuit was dropped because the North Carolina Legislature
revised their budget and did not single out Planned Parenthood.
He did not see the same situation in Alaska.
He addressed how Alaska's Constitution applies to SB 191. He
said Amendment 1 that narrows the scope of the bill would take
care of concerns about free speech and association rights for
teachers. Regarding the equal protection concerns, he pointed
out that the public classroom is not a forum with unlimited free
speech rights. The proposed language that directs abortion
providers, their employees and representatives, to have no
access to students in the classroom is already required of
religious, denominational, or partisan instructors per Alaska
law. He did not see constitutional concerns.
He added that there is another provision in education statutes -
AS 14.20.095 - the right to comment and criticize not to be
restricted. It allows teachers to engage in comments and
criticism outside of school hours regarding their employers. A
teacher has rights to associate or speak on topics outside of
school hours. This was mentioned in Ms. Glover's memo as well
pursuant to Article I, Section 5, of Alaska's Constitution.
4:22:49 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked if the bill of attainder applies if
Planned Parenthood is the only elective abortion provider in
Alaska.
MR. BIRD opined that it does not because it does not single out
a particular person. He referred to the Employment Division vs.
Smith case where the statute of neutral or general applicability
was found to be insufficient due to the Religious Freedom
Restoration Act.
SENATOR GARDNER concluded that the courts will have to decide
eventually should SB 191 become law.
She referred to a statement Mr. Bird made that no religious
groups would have access to children in the classroom. She
countered that is not what the statute says. It states that
partisan, sectarian, or denominational "doctrines" may not be
advocated during school hours, not that proponents of doctrines
would have not access to schools.
She referred to a case that ruled on restrictions that can't be
based on content or subject matter of restricted speech.
MR. BIRD said that case was mentioned in Mr. Horton's memo.
She withdrew the question.
4:27:18 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY thanked Mr. Bird.
4:27:28 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said he would offer Amendment 1, labeled 29-
LS1269\A.1.
SENATOR GIESSEL moved to adopt Amendment 1:
Page 3, line 26, following "representative":
Insert "acting on behalf"
Page 3, lines 28-29:
Delete "any topic to students at a public school"
Insert "any health topic, including human sexuality or
family planning, to students at a public school during
the hours the school is in session"
Page 4, line 12, following "representative":
Insert "acting on behalf of the abortion services
provider or affiliate"
CHAIR DUNLEAVY objected for discussion.
CHRISTA MCDONALD, Staff, Senator Mike Dunleavy, Alaska State
Legislature, presented information on Amendment 1 of SB 191 on
behalf of the sponsor. She described the changes made by the
amendment:
With the clarifications in this amendment, Senate Bill
191 maintains that a captive audience of students
should not be subject to presentations by abortion
services providers during school hours.
1) Page 3, line 26, following "representative":
Insert "acting on behalf"
Previously the language stated that any employee or
representative of an abortion services provider may
not deliver material or instruction to students. This
change will clarify that a representative must be
acting on behalf of an abortion services provider to
violate the law. This should resolve concerns that the
language was too broad and would reach beyond a
teachers professional duties.
4:29:12 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked if the amendment refers to version A of
the bill.
MS. MCDONALD said yes.
SENATOR GARDNER asked about an omission of the words "an
affiliate." She asked if that was intentional.
MS. MCDONALD thought that was in the third change.
SENATOR GARDNER said "an affiliate" is omitted on page 3, line
26.
MS. MCDONALD said that was correct.
MS. MCDONALD highlighted the second change:
2) Page 3, lines 28 - 29:
Delete "any topic to students at a public school"
Insert "any health topic, including human sexuality or
family planning, to students at a public school during
the hours the school is in session"
This change will narrow the prohibition on topics that
an abortion provider or affiliate may teach to health
and human sexuality. With the proposed amendment the
language would be in line with law in both Louisiana
and Missouri. Neither of the laws in these states have
resulted in a lawsuit as it is well settled that
States have the authority to govern public schools.
In addition, this amendment will address the concerns
we have heard regarding an individual's associations
outside the school by clearly stating that the
language in the bill relates only to the hours that a
school is in session.
4:31:09 PM
MS. MCDONALD explained the third change:
3) Page 4, line 12, following "representative":
Insert "acting on behalf of the abortion services
provider or affiliate"
This portion of the amendment again brings clarity
that an individual must be acting on behalf of the
abortion services provider or affiliate to be in
violation of the proposed law.
SENATOR GARDNER asked whether, in the second part of Amendment 1
regarding the limitation of hours when school is in session, the
prohibition about distributing materials applies only during
school hours.
MS. MCDONALD said it applies during school hours.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY withdrew his objection. There being no further
objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
4:32:59 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL moved to report CSSB 191(EDC), labeled 29-
LS1269\A, as amended, from committee with individual
recommendations and attached zero fiscal notes.
SENATOR GARDNER objected. She said she needed time to reflect on
the amendment.
CHAIR DUNLEAVY said they were moving the bill.
4:34:08 PM
SENATOR STEVENS objected. He said he also has concerns about the
bill. He highlighted the part of the bill where a school board
member may violate the law and cause the district to not receive
state funds. He maintained that there are a lot of protections
in the current system. If a parent does not want their child to
receive sex education classes they can opt out. The school
district can decide to opt out of sex education as well. He
opined that SB 191 is state overreach into school boards and
parents.
4:35:09 PM
SENATOR GARDNER stated that she did not see what problem the
bill solves. She said, "If you don't want any talk of abortion
in schools, just say so and be done with it." She pointed out
that any school district can say that and make it clear in
contracts with providers. She maintained that if the issue is
abortion, one very effective way to reduce abortion is to reduce
unplanned pregnancies and provide information. Parents do not
approve of teenagers being sexually active, but the fact is that
it happens.
She mentioned testimony about students not being comfortable
talking to parents and teachers. She said, "The notion that
children won't do the things we tell them not to do is just a
fallacy." She concluded that the goals of sex education is to
prevent unwanted pregnancies, reduce STI's, and identify
unhealthy relationships. SB 191 "pulls us backwards from those
efforts."
4:38:00 PM
CHAIR DUNLEAVY stated that the bill does not prevent the state
or school districts from teaching sex education. He said HB 44
passed last year over the objections of some school districts.
It is not unheard of for a legislature to pass laws about what
is taught in schools. The bill does not prevent any teacher from
providing sex education. The issue is much broader and others
need to be brought into the conversation.
A roll call vote was taken. Senators Huggins, Giessel, and
Dunleavy voted in favor of the motion and Senators Stevens and
Gardner voted against it. Therefore, the motion passed by a 3:2
vote. SB 191 moved on to the next committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 191 - Colorado Freedom Institute Analysis.pdf |
SEDC 3/15/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 191 |
| SB 191 - Alaska Right to Life Petition.pdf |
SEDC 3/15/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 191 |
| SB 191 - Amendment A.1.pdf |
SEDC 3/15/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 191 |
| SB 191 - Clarkson Memo.pdf |
SEDC 3/15/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 191 |
| SB 191 - Bird Memo.pdf |
SEDC 3/15/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 191 |
| SB 191 - Explanation for Amendment #1.pdf |
SEDC 3/15/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 191 |
| SB 191 - Amendment A.1.pdf |
SEDC 3/15/2016 3:30:00 PM |
SB 191 |