Legislature(2021 - 2022)GRUENBERG 120
04/16/2022 10:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s):|| State Board of Parole|| Confirmation Hearing(s): | |
| SB182 | |
| HB316 | |
| HB256 | |
| SB156 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 182 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 316 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 256 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 156 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 182-INTERFERENCE WITH EMERGENCY SERVICES
10:41:15 AM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS announced that the next order of business
would be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 182(JUD), "An Act establishing
the crime of interference with emergency communications."
10:42:41 AM
SENATOR DAVID WILSON, Alaska State Legislature, prime sponsor of
CSSB 182(JUD), provided a brief overview of the bill. He stated
that the bill established the offense of interference with
emergency communications. The statute would only apply when a
person repeatedly made 911 calls to report something they knew
had already been reported, repeatedly called 911 when there was
no emergency, harassed or threatened a 911 operator, or
disrupted communications between 911 operators and first
responders.
10:45:25 AM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked why the bill lacked exemptions for
individuals with dementia, developmental disabilities, or
behavioral health issues.
SENATOR WILSON argued that those exemptions already existed in
statute. He posited that an individual would have to
"knowingly" call and disrupt emergency communications to be
prosecuted.
10:46:57 AM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked whether adequate protections were in
place for people with developmental disabilities and behavioral
health issues.
JASMIN MARTIN, Staff, Senator David Wilson, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Senator Wilson, prime sponsor of CSSB
182(JUD), deferred to Mr. Butcher.
10:48:04 AM
JACOB BUTCHER, Communications Manager, Mat-Com Dispatch, shared
his understanding that the legislation was not geared towards
dementia or people with behavioral health issues. He believed
that there were other tools to address Representative Story's
concerns, such as CIP response, hospitalization, and the Crisis
Now model. He reiterated that the bill was intended for those
members of the community who choose to knowingly call 911
repeatedly or make false reports to simulate a SWAT response.
10:50:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked whether adequate protections were in
place [for people with developmental disabilities and behavioral
health issues].
10:51:13 AM
KACI SCHROEDER, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,
Department of Law (DOL), agreed with Mr. Butcher. If the
Criminal Division was referred a case, she said, and there was
some indication that the individual had diminished capacity,
mental illness, or was suffering from a disease, his/her mental
state would be analyzed to identify whether the individual was
capable of acting knowingly. Additionally, she said she would
consider whether the individual could appreciate the nature of
his/her conduct and whether he/she was competent to stand trial.
Once those hurdles were crossed, she explained that the next
step was to consider whether prosecution was appropriate and in
the best interest of justice. For those reasons, she opined
that the appropriate protections were in place.
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS asked how the proposed legislation would
apply to his grandmother who had Alzheimer's disease and tended
to call 911 incessantly. He inquired about the barriers to
prosecuting that hypothetical case.
MS. SCHROEDER shared her understanding that Chair Kreiss-
Tomkin's had stated that his grandmother was removed from
reality when dialing 911. For that reason, Ms. Schroeder
suspected that his grandmother did not understand the nature of
her conduct, which would result in legal barriers to
prosecution. Further, his grandmother would need to be deemed
competent to stand trial by a medical professional.
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS pointed out that his grandmother's intent
was to call 911, despite her altered state of mind. He asked
Ms. Schroeder to speak on that.
MS. SCHROEDER explained that if his grandmother knowingly called
911 and was therefore capable of formulating a mental state, the
prosecution would consider whether she had the ability to
appreciate the nature and quality of her conduct, which could be
used as a defense by his grandmother's attorney. She emphasized
that this scenario was hypothetical at best. She suspected that
in most cases, his grandmother would not be prosecuted.
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS said he appreciated that; however, if the
intent was to exclude individuals with behavioral health issues
or a declining mental state, he argued that the law should not
be criminalizing that behavior.
MS. SCHROEDER noted that the defenses she had referenced could
be found under AS 12.47.010 and AS 12.47.020.
10:57:04 AM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS inquired about the sentencing ranges for
the crime classification.
MS. SCHROEDER stated that a class A misdemeanor had a sentencing
range of 0-1 year while a class C felony had a sentencing range
of 0-5 years.
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS asked whether any fines were associated
with class A misdemeanor and class C felony charges.
MS. SCHROEDER answered yes. She reported that there was a
maximum fine of $25,000 for a class A misdemeanor and a maximum
fine of $50,000 for a class C felony.
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS stated that he did not take felony charges
lightly.
10:59:19 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether a larger fine would be
assessed if an organization was found liable.
MS. SCHROEDER answered yes. She reported that the maximum fine
for an organization that was found liable for a class A
misdemeanor was $500,000 and $2.5 million for a felony offense
that resulted in death.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether it was currently against
the law to knowingly submit a fraudulent report to law
enforcement or an emergency dispatcher.
MS. SCHROEDER acknowledged that there was an existing crime,
referred to as "making a false report."
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether it was currently a crime to
knowingly harass an emergency dispatcher.
MS. SCHROEDER said not specifically; however, harassment in the
second degree covered some of the conduct in question.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether it was currently a crime to
threaten an emergency communications officer.
MS. SCHROEDER said, "It depends on what it is."
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether there was an exemption for
emergency communications officers.
MS. SCHROEDER answered no.
11:01:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN understood that the larger concern was
that someone with mental illness or behavioral health issues
shouldn't be charged at all. He opined that people in that
situation shouldn't have to be entered into the criminal justice
system at all, as it wouldn't make their situation any better.
He asked how to "deal" with that.
MS. SCHROEDER reiterated her belief that the type of case in
question would not be pursued by prosecution.
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN recalled a scenario about an elderly woman
who called 911 several times per month because she was lonely.
He expressed his hope that she, or someone like her, would not
be prosecuted despite the potential for interrupting the system.
SENATOR WILSON believed that the proposed legislation would
provide a tool for intervention to help mitigate future
interruptions.
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked how frequently fraudulent calls were
coming in with the intent to deceive emergency dispatchers.
MR. BUTCHER said those calls were much less frequent. He
emphasized that the bill was not intended for elderly people or
people suffering from an illness. He assured Representative
Claman that emergency dispatchers and law enforcement would
"take care" with those callers. He reiterated that the bill was
intended for people who were placing calls with the purpose of
disruption because they were upset with law enforcement or first
responders.
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked how the proposed crime differed from
harassment at the misdemeanor level.
MR. BUTCHER explained that the dispatcher would be able to tell
the caller that if he/she continued to call, the audio would be
passed to a law enforcement officer. From there, the law
enforcement officer would make contact with the individual to
warn him/her that continued calls would result in criminal
charges.
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN asked whether the audio recording would be
relied upon to file the charges, as opposed to the dispatcher
needing to make a personal declaration.
MR. BUTCHER said the recordings would be an additional tool if
an arrest was made.
11:14:42 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN expressed his concern that the bill could
discourage people from calling 911 during a true emergency. He
recommended strengthening the harassment laws instead of
criminalizing new behavior.
11:17:25 AM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS opened public testimony.
11:17:46 AM
HILLARY PALMER stated her support for SB 182, as someone who had
relied on emergency medical services to save her type I diabetic
husband from kidney failure before his life saving transplant
surgery. She pointed out that currently, to file a harassment
charge, a dispatcher must fill out a complaint form that
includes personal information, thus providing an opportunity for
personal attacks and stalking. She urged the committee to
consider the problem from the perspective of someone undergoing
a severe medical emergency and to pass the proposed legislation.
11:21:03 AM
MARK PEARSON, President, Alaska Peace Officers Association,
urged committee members to support the bill. He argued that
current statutes did not directly address the problem. He
encouraged passage of the bill to eliminate the existing
statutory loophole.
11:22:46 AM
CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS closed public testimony on CSSB 182(JUD).
He announced that the bill was held over.
11:23:13 AM
The committee took a brief at-ease.