Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
03/18/2022 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SJR23 | |
| SB180 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 79 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 180 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SJR 23 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 180-PASSENGER VESSEL ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE
4:02:00 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE reconvened the meeting and announced the
consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 180 "An Act relating to
commercial passenger vessel environmental compliance; relating
to commercial passenger vessel fees; establishing the wastewater
infrastructure grant fund; repealing the authority for citizens'
suits relating to commercial passenger vessel environmental
compliance; repealing the commercial passenger vessel
recognition program; and providing for an effective date."
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE asked Ms. Pokon to respond to the questions
the committee asked during the introductory hearing.
4:02:32 PM
EMMA POKON, Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Environmental Conservation, Juneau, Alaska, stated
that she was joined by Terri Lomax, the program manager for
water quality standards. Their understanding was that they would
be available for questions today but she would give a brief
overview.
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE said he'd like to hear the responses to the
previous questions to see if it spurred and additional
questions.
4:03:33 PM
MS. POKON reviewed the document, significant changes to the CPV
statutes (AS 46.03), CPV specific regulations (18 AAC 69) and
water quality standards (18 AAC 70) since 2006:
[Original punctuation provided.]
a. 2007 SB 121 restored the ability for small
vessels to operate under DEC-approved alternative
best management practices plans which had been
created in the 2004 legislation and was
subsequently repealed by the language in the 2006
voter initiative.
b. 2009 SB 183 expanded the qualifications for ocean
rangers that monitor marine discharge and pollution
requirements aboard large commercial passenger
vessels.
c. 2009 HB 134 allowed DEC to provide waivers to
large vessels that were using the current best
available technology; this change recognized that
the technology did not yet exist that would allow
vessels to consistently meet Alaska's discharge
requirements. This provision sunsetted in 2015.
d. 2009 18 AAC 70 amendments to adopt by reference
the Alaska Water Quality Criteria Manual for Toxic
and Other Deleterious Organic and Inorganic
Substances (2008), which serves as the numeric
criteria for toxic pollutants adopted by reference
in 18 AAC 70; included other relatively minor
changes.
e. 2012 18 AAC 70 amendments to revise the
antidegradation language at 18 AAC 70.015.
f. 2013 HB 80 allowed for a mixing zone for vessels
that operate an advanced wastewater treatment
system (operating the advanced system meets the
technology-based treatment requirement for a mixing
zone). The sunset provision that allowed for
alternative plans for small vessels built before
2004 was partially removed; all small vessels,
including those built after 2003, were now covered
under the small vessel exemption.
g. 2013 18 AAC 69 amendments included relatively
minor changes to align terminology with other
practices within DEC and provided additional time
for an alternative plan approval from three years
to five years after approval.
h. 2017 SB 3 resolved an oversight in HB 80 (2013)
that failed to fully remove the sunset date from
the statutory provision allowing alternative best
management plans for small vessels, causing the
exemption to expire on December 31, 2016. Statutes
were amended to reinstate the provision.
i. 2017 18 AAC 70 amendments to review the bacteria
criteria to adopt the EPA 2012 Recreational Water
Quality Criteria for the designated use of contact
recreation.
j. 2018 18 AAC 69 amendments included relatively
minor changes to include a requirement that a
vessel must resample for temperature, pH, and
chlorine if the vessel must resample for a fecal
coliform exceedance.
k. 2018 18 AAC 70 amendments adopting the
antidegradation implementation procedures at 18 AAC
70.016 and allowing for the adoption of water
quality standards variances at 18 AAC 70.205.
MS. POKON deferred to Ms. Lomax to discuss the the water
sampling results.
4:07:11 PM
TERRI LOMAX, Environmental Program Manager, Water Quality
Standards, Assessment & Restoration Program, Division of Water,
Department of Environmental Conservation, Anchorage, Alaska,
said the members should have copies of the summary results from
sampling over the last several years. In 2015 there were six
harbors that were sampled a few times during the year. In 2019
the sampling expanded to 19 harbors and their common shipping
and traffic lanes that were used by both large and small cruise
ships. The results were summarized in the report.
SENATOR MICCICHE asked her to remain online in case questions
came up.
4:08:56 PM
SENATOR KIEHL noted that the previous hearing did not include
much talk about the administration and historical efficiency of
the Ocean Ranger Program. It was operated at the lowest possible
cost, although he understands that the department had the
contractor book berths for the ocean rangers at the industry
rack rate, not a negotiated reduction. He asked whether the
department could talk about those issues and opportunities.
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE asked Ms. Achee who would be able to answer
questions about the Ocean Ranger Program and if they might be
available today.
4:10:42 PM
LAURA ACHEE, Legislative Liaison, Department of Environmental
Conservation, Juneau, Alaska, deferred the question to Ms.
Pokon.
MS. POKON said the department agrees that a significant portion
of the funding for the Ocean Ranger Program went towards paying
for passage on the vessels. Whether or not there could be a more
efficient process to purchase cruises for the ocean rangers is
probably limited by the state procurement process, she said. Her
belief is there is great value in having the DEC inspectors, who
have knowledge about the discharges and how the vessels operate,
go aboard to check the vessels directly. These inspectors have
the authority to write a notice of violation and for
enforcement, and this firsthand knowledge is arguably of more
value than relying on a report from a third party. This also
avoids the berthing costs throughout the season. She opined that
the department's proposal identified that inefficiency in the
current statute as well as a proposed solution.
SENATOR KIEHL said he didn't have any follow up on that point.
4:12:55 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked Ms. Lomax whether the 2015 to 2019 graphs
she provided were an average over those seasons, and how that
compared to the total number of cruise ships. He acknowledge
that both the 2020 and 2021 seasons were poor [due to the
pandemic].
4:13:25 PM
MS. LOMAX confirmed that the 2015 to 2019 numbers were averaged.
The samples taken those years were limited in locations and the
number of samplings so they aren't the best representation of
the variety of conditions, but they do provide a comparison. She
said she had not compared this data to the other years because
of the limited number of samples, but with the return of cruise
ships the department looks forward to looking at the changes and
comparing the numbers to 2020 and 2021.
4:14:30 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI questioned how useful the data was. He pointed
to the 2015 to 2019 low fecal coliform numbers per volume for
Seward that doubled in 2020 even though there probably weren't
many cruise ships. It was the opposite in Ketchikan. The numbers
were exceptionally high in 2015 to 2019, about half that in 2020
and exceptionally low in 2021 compared to the 2015 to 2019
numbers. He asked if she could explain those numbers.
4:15:40 PM
MS. LOMAX responded that water temperature drives bacteria
levels so weather patterns and climate are considerations. The
2020 summer was very warm and the chart shows that there were
significantly higher exceedances in 2020 than 2021, which was a
very cold summer. There are also many sources of potential
bacteria in those communities that could have affected the
counts other than cruise ships, including wastewater treatment
plants located near small boat harbors.
She said the department may use some of this data to drive more
studies to identify sources of fecal coliform bacteria, but at
this point it's not possible to say that the bacteria was
directly related to cruise ships.
4:17:00 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE stated that one of the reasons he supports
the bill in its current form is that the wastewater
infrastructure grant fund in the bill is designed to improve the
waste treatment facilities in waivered communities, primarily in
Southeast. He asked if he understood that correctly.
MS. POKON responded that the department appreciates that if EPA
decides to reevaluate whether or not those 301 (h) waiver
permits are appropriate, it would be a significant cost to those
communities if they had to increase treatment at their
wastewater plants. Since the department no longer has to pay for
berth space, the idea is to put that money into the grant
program to help support those communities that have that
significant cost on the horizon. It's appropriate since many of
those port communities take the waste from cruise ship
passengers that go ashore, and it's a burden.
4:19:32 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said his primary point was that exceedances
were primarily associated with the huge numbers of people who
disembark cruise ships and overload local wastewater systems. He
asked if that was accurate.
MS. POKON answered that is correct, although there are
exceedances when there are no cruise ship visitors so there is a
clear need to improve those facilities. She reminded the
committee that the earlier presentation indicated that the
standard discharge for 301(h) waiver communities was many orders
of magnitude greater than what is allowed for large cruise
ships. There is a clear and pressing need to improve that
infrastructure.
4:20:55 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE summarized that the money that the state
previously invested in the Ocean Ranger Program will be used to
improve wastewater infrastructure in coastal communities in
Southeast, which are the actual source of the exceedances.
MS. POKON answered that is correct.
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE asked if it would be accurate to say that
the grant fund likely would not be used to improve treatment
options in Anchorage, but it will have significant funds that
could be used as a match and perhaps fund most of the other
301(h) waivered communities in Alaska.
MS. POKON answered that the current estimates for disinfection
for most waivered communities is $5-10 million, but it would be
significantly more for Anchorage. The money coming in from the
cruise ships currently could support the oversight program DEC
is proposing, and the savings could also go toward a significant
portion [of the cost to improve treatment] in the small
[waivered] communities. It could make a big difference in those
communities, she said.
4:23:37 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked her to confirm that she said it would
cost a community $5-10 million to upgrade their wastewater
treatment facilities.
MS. POKON replied that is the current estimate.
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked Senator Kiehl what the upgrades would
cost in Juneau, and conveyed his understanding that the cost for
most communities would be a lot more than $5-10 million.
4:24:21 PM
SENATOR KIEHL answered that Juneau does not have a 301(h)
waiver. Juneau does full secondary treatment, and more than that
depending on the plant. He noted that nine communities,
including Anchorage, had waivers. He split the difference
between 5 and 10 and calculated that $7.5 million times eight
communities would cost roughly $60 million. He commented that it
was a long way to stretch $3.5 million per year. He also posited
that it was a dream to think that some of the larger communities
on the waiver list could upgrade their wastewater infrastructure
for $10 million.
SENATOR KAWASAKI said he believes it's a good idea to have a
wastewater infrastructure grant fund, but to say, as Section 13
does, that the money that previously went to the Ocean Ranger
Program will be sufficient to make grants available to these
communities for the upgrades seems unrealistic.
4:26:02 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE offered his perspective that helping these
communities disinfect their wastewater was far short of actual
treatment but it was better than doing nothing. He also posited
that the substantial funds for wastewater treatment that are
coming from the Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act (IIJA) could
be put in the proposed grant fund that may have enough to
provide the match to improve disinfection at the very least.
4:26:46 PM
MS. ACHEE stated that when the director of the Division of Water
met with port communities in Southeast to discuss the idea of
this bill, it was before the IIJA passed but DEC already was
well aware of the noticeable impact cruise ship passengers have
on these local wastewater treatment systems during the summer
months. Those communities conveyed that any form of financial
help that involved repayment would be burdensome. She said DEC
acknowledges that SB 180 is not a silver bullet, the grant funds
it will make available to help resolve wastewater problems in
these communities will be meaningful because they won't require
repayment.
4:28:31 PM
SENATOR KIEHL noted that the chair mentioned that some cruise
ships have very advanced wastewater treatment programs, but his
understanding was that some of the older vessels do not have
advanced treatment systems onboard. He also highlighted that
since the last hearing a letter came in that speculated that
some ships may be set up to automate monitoring with sensors on
valves while other vessels might not have that technology. He
asked whether DEC had a sense of the number of large vessels
that lack the advanced water treatment and how many would face a
major investment to add remote monitoring technology versus a
minor upgrade.
4:29:50 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE asked him to clarify the question because
his understanding was that all of the large cruise ships have
advanced wastewater treatment technology onboard.
SENATOR KIEHL clarified the two questions. Regarding treatment
technology, he recalled that some vessels have such advanced
technology that they're permitted to discharge while in port and
stationary. He asked how many vessels had that very advanced
technology and how many had less-advanced treatment technology.
He also asked how many vessels had the ability to do remote
monitoring with automated valve sensors and how many did not
have that technology.
4:31:09 PM
MS. ACHEE offered her understanding that all of the large
vessels are capable of meeting the State of Alaska discharge
standards. Some vessels choose not to discharge while in port,
but that is not a reflection of their ability to meet those
standards. The fleet of smaller vessels that come to the state
includes some that are older, and for those it would be cost-
prohibitive and perhaps impossible to retrofit an advanced
wastewater treatment system onboard. That is why DEC has for
many years had a separate track for smaller vessels to get best
management practices in place.
Regarding the [automated valve] technology, the industry has
said it's not possible to retrofit the technology as DEC
currently envisions. She said she saw the letter Senator Kiehl
mentioned that speculated that some vessels have automated valve
monitoring technology, but that didn't align with the
information DEC currently has so the department would look into
that further and follow up on that point.
4:33:06 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked whether other countries or sovereigns
were lowering the regulation and oversight of wastewater
discharge.
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE noted that he said "other" and asked if he
meant that the State of Alaska was suggesting doing the same.
SENATOR KAWASAKI responded that he views the Ocean Ranger
Program as an integral part of ensuring that there is oversight
and regulation. His was asking of other countries were lowering
their oversight and regulation.
MS. ACHEE answered that she didn't know but the only information
DEC might be able to get would be about the level of oversight
different regions have for cruise ships. Her understanding was
that Alaska has among the most comprehensive oversight of cruise
ships, but she would look at that more closely and follow up
with what she learns. She also agreed with the chair that DEC
was not lowering the requirements for cruise ships regarding
discharges, registration, or air emissions. What the department
is doing is looking for the best value for the money that's
being spent to protect Alaska's environment and they do not
believe that the changes in SB 180 will decrease the ability to
do that.
4:35:49 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI acknowledged that he misspoke. He should have
asked whether other countries were increasing their oversight
and regulatory regime on cruise ships and how they were doing
so. For example, Singapore, Canada, and California are
increasing their regulatory requirements on heavy metals and
fecal coliform levels; Norway claims to have adopted new policy
that represents one of the largest changes in environmental
history; and Finland has projects to convert wastewater and
sewage to biogas.
4:36:57 PM
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE said he'd like to know which countries were
making an effort to reach or had exceeded Alaska's current
wastewater standards. He emphasized that the water quality
problems in Alaska for the last 15 or more years were unrelated
to cruise ship traffic unless the passengers disembark into
communities that are unprepared for the level of discharge. He
said he'd like to improve the treatment options for those
waivered communities, but he'd like to take the long view
approach and other water quality issues like in the small
coastal village at the head of Cook Inlet because the issues
there are probably more widespread than many would like to
admit. He said he was quite serious about wanting to understand
how Alaska measures globally. He asked if it was true that
Alaska has more waivered communities than any other state in the
US.
4:39:32 PM
MS. POKON offered her understanding that only those previously
mentioned Alaska communities were still operating under the
Clean Water Act 301(h) waivers. They did not have to meet the
standards that other permitted communities and facilities have
to meet.
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE observed that SB 180 offered a creative
approach to improve water quality in Alaska over the long term.
He noted that many of the CARES Act funding was for loan
programs that turned out to be grant programs. With passage of
IIJA, he envisioned enlisting federal help to get real water
quality improvements in Southeast through loan forgiveness to
grant programs such as the one proposed in SB 180.
VICE CHAIR MICCICHE held SB 180 in committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| G.pdf |
SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM SRES 3/21/2022 3:30:00 PM |
HB 79 |
| HB 79 Collected Written Testimony as of 3.18.2022.pdf |
SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM SRES 3/21/2022 3:30:00 PM |
HB 79 |
| SJR 23 Image of Family With Mountain 3.18.2022.jpg |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Image of Mountain From Deck 3.18.2022.jpg |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Image of Mountain Aerial 3.18.2022.jpg |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Image of Mountain Location 3.18.2022.jpg |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Letter of Support Cappelletti 03.16.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Letter of Support Judy Brady 03.14.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Letter of Support Kim Griffith 03.12.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Letter of Support Ralph Samuels 03.16.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SJR 23 Sponsor Statement 3.18.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |
| SB 180 Ports and Waterways Graphs 3.18.2022.pdf |
SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 180 |
| SB 180 Changes to CPV statues and regulations 3.18.2022.pdf |
SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 180 |
| SB 180 Public Testimony 3.18.2022.pdf |
SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 180 |
| SJR 23 Letter of Support DeBardelaben 3.18.2022.pdf |
HRES 5/9/2022 1:00:00 PM SRES 3/18/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SJR 23 |