Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/24/1996 01:50 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE BILL NO. 177
"An Act relating to permits to carry concealed
handguns."
BRENT HUBER, STAFF, SENATOR GREEN testified on behalf of SB
177. He provided the Committee with written testimony (copy
on file). He maintained that SB 177 will revise the current
concealed handgun program to provide a more streamlined and
less costly process.
Mr. Huber provided members with a sectional analysis of SB
177 (copy on file). He reviewed the sectional analysis. He
noted that the sponsor has provided an amendment that would
remove subsections 1(e) and 11(a). Subsection 1(a) would
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provide an affirmative defense for AS 11.61.210 that would
allow permit holders to carry concealed weapons on school
grounds providing that they did not exit a propelled
vehicle. He stressed that the sponsor has tried to find
language that would allow permit holders the opportunity to
pick up or drop off their children at school. The sponsor
was not able to find language that was agreeable to
opponents and recommends the deletion of the existing
language.
TESS LANUM, VICE PRESIDENT ON LEGISLATION, ALASKA STATE
PARENT/TEACHERS ASSOCIATION testified via the teleconference
network. (Ms. Lanum's written remarks are on file.) She
stated that Alaska PTA agrees with the removal of
subsections 1(e) and 11(a). She asked that the original
law regarding concealed weapons on school property remain in
place.
Representative Kelly noted that subsection 11(a) of work
draft, 9-LS1139\S, 4/22/96, states that concealed handguns
may not be carried on to school grounds or a school bus
"other than while in a propelled vehicle, other than a
school bus, and the permittee does not exit the vehicle".
Ms. Lanum spoke in opposition to the language in 11(a).
WENDY REDMOND, VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA spoke in
support of deleting subsections 1(e) and 11(a). She
observed that University of Alaska classrooms are not
covered by the legislation since they are not included under
the definition of "schools." She requested that concealed
handguns be excluded from University of Alaska campus
grounds or facilities except as provided by the Board of
Regents policy. She noted that the Board of Regents
currently allow guns on campus. There are secure places in
each dorm for gun storage. Guns are allowed in locked cars.
The University of Alaska does not support the policy of
concealed weapons in classrooms. She emphasized that
campuses are well protected. There are commissioned
officers on campuses. She added that security forces and
lighting have been increased.
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN stated that he is opposed to
allowing concealed handguns on schools. He expressed
support for the elimination of subsections 1(e) and 11(a).
He stressed that if protection is needed that other measures
should be taken.
HELEN MERHRKENS, STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION noted that the
Board unanimously opposes the concept of allowing concealed
handguns on school grounds. She noted that the Board
believes that all conditions directly related to the safety
and health of public school students and staff are of utmost
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importance. She added that the Board opposes concealed
weapons in state operated public libraries.
Representative Kelly asked Ms. Merhrkens for the rationale
behind her objections. Ms. Merhrkens stated that testimony
from parents indicated concern that there with guns on
school property. She stated that parents do not want guns
on school grounds unless they are part of an organized
event. She stated that someone who brings a concealed
handgun in a vehicle may illegally get out of the car with
their gun.
Representative Kelly expressed support for the ability of
parents to carry concealed weapons in their cars on school
grounds. He maintained that it would be a benefit to have
parents with guns on school grounds in the case of an
incident. Ms. Merhrkens stated that their preference is for
trained law enforcement officers to respond to incidents on
school grounds.
Representative Martin noted the use of guns in rural areas.
Ms. Merhrkens noted that the use of rifle ranges would not
be prohibited under current law.
(Tape Change, HFC 96-136, Side 1)
Representative Kelly summarized that a handgun can be
carried in the trunk if it is unloaded.
DUANE BUELL, JUNEAU testified in SB 177. He stated that he
supports any provision that relaxes restrictions on
concealed handguns. He noted that permit holders from other
states have to meet qualifications in their states. He
asserted that "not one of the horror stories that (the
Department of) Public Safety advanced as being a consequence
of passing a concealed carry bill has come true in the last
16 months." He pointed out that the process assures that
permit holders are law abiding responsible persons. He
stressed that he wants the ability to defend himself if the
need arises. He spoke against restrictions.
Representative Kohring echoed the remarks of Mr. Buell.
Representative Brown stated that a permittee can carry their
weapon in a holster, unconcealed, in most of the areas that
concealed weapons can not be carried. Mr. Buell argued that
those that carry weapons in the open are a target for
criminals.
Mr. Huber noted that AS 11.61.220 A(4)(a) allows all
unloaded firearms to be carried in a trunk or encased in a
closed container in a motor vehicle. He clarified that
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concealed handguns would be included under this provision.
In response to a question by Representative Brown, Mr. Huber
discussed section 3. He noted that current law prohibits
anyone from carrying concealed handguns anyplace that has a
beverage dispensary license. This includes restaurants. He
noted that permit holders want to be able to go out to lunch
with their weapons. He observed that there is no clear
differentiation between restaurants and bars. He stated
that it is already against the law and in statute to possess
a firearm while intoxicated. He maintained that concealed
handgun permit holders should be able to go in and out of
normal businesses. He stressed that under an affirmative
defense the defendant would have to prove that they have not
consumed alcohol in the 8 hours previous to carrying a
concealed weapon. He noted that a blood alcohol level of
below .04 percent is the same as commercial driver's
license. The first detectable level is .02 percent.
Representative Brown noted that a loaded firearm could be
concealed in a place where liquor is sold. Mr. Huber stated
that the exception is for a loaded firearm in the possession
of a permit holder who has not consumed or has no blood
alcohol level greater than .04 percent.
Mr. Huber explained that an affirmative defense states that
the laws of the section pertain, however, an allowable
exception is given if proof is made that the terms of the
exception are met. He noted that the Department of Law did
not support a direct offense. The burden of proof would be
on the permit holder.
Representative Brown asked if this provision would encourage
persons to violate the law. Mr. Huber noted that one of the
requirements for obtaining a permit is that the permittee
have a clear explanation and study of the laws that pertain
to the program.
Representative Brown referred to subsections 11 (4) and (5).
She asked why the existing language was deleted. Mr. Huber
noted that testimony stressed that the firearm properly
possessed by the permit holder is safer in their direct
control than left in a car outside of their control. He
maintained that permit holders are the most law abiding and
responsible citizens.
In response to a question by Representative Brown, Mr. Huber
noted that subsection 11(8) received the most public
testimony. Deletion of subsection 11(8) would allow
concealed weapons to be carried in financial institutions or
banks. He maintained that permit holders want to carry
concealed weapons as protection to and from banks.
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Representative Martin MOVED to adopt Amendment 1 (copy on
file). Amendment 1 would provide that concealed handguns be
excluded from the University of Alaska campus grounds or
facilities except as provided by the Board of Regents
policy. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt committee substitute,
Work Draft, 9-LS1139\S, dated 4\22\96 as amended by
Amendment 1 (copy on file).
Mr. Huber discussed changes in the committee substitute.
Section 3 was changed to include the blood alcohol level. A
blanket prohibition on health care providing facilities was
deleted. He noted that individual facilities can set their
own policy regarding concealed handguns. He added that
reciprocity provisions were changed.
There being NO OBJECTION, Work Draft, 9-LS1139\S, dated
4\22\96 as amended by Amendment 1 was adopted.
Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt Amendment 2, 9-
LS1139\S.1 (copy on file). Amendment 2 would delete "other
than while in a propelled vehicle, other than a school bus,
and the permittee does not exit the vehicle."
Representative Kelly expressed opposition to Amendment 2,
but acknowledged that there is strong support for the
amendment among opponents of concealed handguns.
Mr. Huber stated that the legislation would remain silent in
regards to any provisions regarding schools with the
adoption of Amendment 2. The current law disallowing
concealed handguns on school property would remain.
Representative Kelly noted that handguns could be carried
unloaded in a trunk or container.
In response to a question by Representative Mulder, Mr.
Huber noted that if another state is honoring Alaska's
permit, Alaska would honor their permit. He emphasized that
other states also provide for a criminal background check
and finger printing information. He noted that training
provisions differ from state to state. Representative
Mulder expressed concern that other states provide the same
protection.
DEL SMITH, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
stated that he understood that other states would have to be
as stringent as Alaska for reciprocity to exist.
Co-Chair Foster MOVED to report HCS CSSB 177 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes.
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Representative Brown OBJECTED for purposes of discussion.
She maintained that handguns are a threat to our children.
She asserted that the proliferation throughout society is
troubling and a threat. She thought it was a mistake to
expand areas concealed weapons can be carried.
Representative Brown WITHDREW her Objection.
There being NO OBJECTION, HCS CSSB 177 (FIN) was reported
out of Committee.
Representative Kohring maintained that expansion of handguns
will provide greater safety to law abiding citizens.
HCS CSSB 177 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with a fiscal impact note by the
Department of Public Safety, dated 4\11\96; a zero fiscal
note by the Department of Corrections, dated 3/26/96; and a
zero fiscal note by the Department of Law, dated 3/6/96.
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