Legislature(2003 - 2004)

03/12/2004 08:00 AM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
        SB 170-CRIMINAL LAW/SENTENCING/PROBATION/PAROLE                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LINDA   WILSON,  Public   Defender  Agency,   Department  of                                                               
Administration (DOA),  said she would complete  the testimony she                                                               
began  on Wednesday  morning and  would focus  on the  forfeiture                                                               
provisions in the bootlegging aspect  of the bill. Members raised                                                               
questions about  the interests of  lien holders of  property that                                                               
might be subject  to forfeiture. She pointed out  that Section 11                                                               
requires  forfeiture   of  all  aircraft  and   any  vehicles  or                                                               
watercraft  if the  offender  had  a prior  conviction  or is  on                                                               
probation.  She   expressed  concern  that  the   person  with  a                                                               
legitimate  interest   in  the  property  subject   to  mandatory                                                               
forfeiture  will have  to prove  in court  that he  or she  is an                                                               
innocent  party.  She expects,  given  the  example discussed  on                                                               
Wednesday  of the  forfeiture of  a $10,000  truck with  a $5,000                                                               
lien, the  lien holder will  probably have  to pay the  state for                                                               
the  $5,000 difference  in  the value  of the  truck  and try  to                                                               
recoup  the cost.  She cautioned  that it  will require  the lien                                                               
holder  and others  with  a legitimate  interest  in property  to                                                               
appear in court and result in more forfeiture hearings.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WILSON turned  to the  self-defense provision  and said  she                                                               
spoke a  little bit  about the criminal  objectives and  the drug                                                               
transactions but  the language  in Section 18  (page 11)  adds to                                                               
the  list of  circumstances for  which  a person  cannot raise  a                                                               
self-defense  claim.  She  said  subsection  (B)  is  problematic                                                               
because  she  does  not  believe  a  "purported  transaction"  is                                                               
defined in  statute. She finds that  term to be vague  and is not                                                               
sure why it was included.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WILSON'S last  concern  was Section  32,  which pertains  to                                                               
disclosure  of information  about  juvenile  sex offender  cases.                                                               
Section 32  would allow information  that is now  confidential to                                                               
be shared if  requested for the purpose of protecting  a child or                                                               
vulnerable  adult.   She  echoed  prior  concerns   expressed  by                                                               
committee  members  that  this provision  will  "open  the  door"                                                               
because of  many opportunities for  abuse of the  provision. That                                                               
section   contains  no   confidentiality   protection  once   the                                                               
information  is disclosed;  it could  be  shared and  publicized.                                                               
She said everyone  agrees that sex offenders,  even juveniles, do                                                               
not  deserve sympathy,  but the  purpose  of keeping  information                                                               
confidential  is   to  try   to  rehabilitate   those  juveniles.                                                               
Publicizing that information would be harmful to that goal.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS  noted that  the  legal  definition of  "purported                                                               
transaction" would be to present  the appearance, often false, of                                                               
being or intending to do something.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOSH  FINK, Director of  the Office of Public  Advocacy, told                                                               
members that he finds the  immunity sections most problematic. He                                                               
read  a statement  by  the  Alaska Supreme  Court  from the  1993                                                               
Gonzales case that encapsulates what that protection is:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The privilege against  self-incrimination applies where                                                                    
     the  answers elicited  could  support  a conviction  or                                                                    
     might furnish a  link in the chain  of evidence leading                                                                    
     to a conviction.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FINK believes  section 22(i)  is patently  unconstitutional,                                                               
according to that  statement. To mandate that a  judge inform the                                                               
prosecution  what level  of crime  a potential  witness would  be                                                               
given protection  from if testifying would  allow the prosecution                                                               
to  focus  investigative  resources  on  that  individual  via  a                                                               
process of elimination.  He said that information  could create a                                                               
link in  the chain that he  believes would be struck  down by the                                                               
Alaska Supreme Court after an expensive litigation process.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. FINK then pointed to  Section 18, regarding self-defense, and                                                               
said he understands  the intent but believes it is  too broad. He                                                               
does not believe one should lose  the right to self-defense for a                                                               
purported transaction - when one is  in a situation that may have                                                               
the  appearance of  criminal  activity  but is  not.  He said  an                                                               
example in which  he does not believe the  legislature would want                                                               
to take a person's right  to a self-defense claim is shoplifting.                                                               
He has defended  a number of cases in the  Mat-Su Valley in which                                                               
over-zealous security  guards assaulted teenagers  shoplifting an                                                               
item  such  as  candy.  The state  dismissed  the  charges  after                                                               
reviewing the evidence of the assault.  A second example is a 20-                                                               
year old who might enter a bar with  a fake Id and is attacked by                                                               
a patron  of the bar.  He offered that  one solution would  be to                                                               
require that the criminal activity be felonious.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. FINK  said that Section  19 also deals with  the self-defense                                                               
claim and requires the judge to  make a finding that the evidence                                                               
is  plausible.  His  concern  is  that  fact-finding  is  in  the                                                               
providence  of the  jury; he  does not  believe judges  should be                                                               
allowed to usurp the jury's fact-finding responsibilities.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He  then  expressed significant  concern  that  Section 14  would                                                               
allow a felony prosecution when  one is criminally negligent; the                                                               
current  standard is  reckless  behavior.  The reckless  standard                                                               
requires  the individual  to be  aware  of and  ignore the  risk.                                                               
Under the  criminal negligence standard,  an individual  does not                                                               
even  have  to be  aware  of  the  risk.  He cautioned  that  the                                                               
committee  may  be  criminalizing   an  accident  and  questioned                                                               
whether a person who  hits a patch of black ice  and goes off the                                                               
road  is  felonious if  a  passenger  is  injured. He  felt  that                                                               
section will  criminalize behavior that  Alaskans do not  feel is                                                               
criminal.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FINK  recounted that his father,  when a member of  the House                                                               
in  1969,  introduced the  first  legislation  dealing with  bail                                                               
conditions with  third parties. His understanding  of the purpose                                                               
of  that  legislation was  to  provide  an alternative  to  those                                                               
individuals  without the  financial wherewithal  to afford  bail.                                                               
Since that time, it has morphed  into a situation that involves a                                                               
cash  bail and  third  party. He  pointed out  in  many of  these                                                               
cases, the requirements are already  onerous; for example a third                                                               
party  would have  to get  permission to  bring the  defendant to                                                               
work. Section  17 will  make it  more difficult  to find  a third                                                               
party. He suggested the current  law is sufficient. A third party                                                               
who violates his  or her duties can be held  in contempt of court                                                               
and could receive a $300 fine and  6 months in jail. He felt that                                                               
the language regarding the immediate  reporting of any violations                                                               
is  also problematic.  The  third party  may not  be  aware of  a                                                               
violation at  the exact time it  occurred - such as  when a child                                                               
sneaks out of the home while everyone is sleeping.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS asked Mr. Fink if  he believes it will be harder to                                                               
find a  third party  custodian if the  penalty for  not reporting                                                               
violations is  greater and  whether one  could interpret  that to                                                               
mean that  a number of third  party custodians do not  take their                                                               
responsibilities seriously.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FINK  said  he  believes most  do  take  the  responsibility                                                               
seriously.  He   has  heard  of  individuals   who  are  becoming                                                               
professional custodians  but he  has not  seen any.  He explained                                                               
that currently, a judge tells a  third party custodian that if he                                                               
fails  in his  responsibilities, he  is looking  at the  fine and                                                               
jail term.  Most custodians  hesitate but agree  to go  ahead. He                                                               
warned  that if  the  fine  and jail  term  increase, some  third                                                               
parties will decide not to participate.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  pointed out the  penalty applies if  the custodian                                                               
does not  report an activity  the custodian knew was  a violation                                                               
of the conditions, not for being unaware.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FINK  repeated the  bill  requires  immediate reporting.  He                                                               
would prefer  that the section  require immediate  reporting when                                                               
the  party becomes  aware of  the  violation or  adding the  word                                                               
"knowingly" before "failed."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH asked,  in  regard to  Mr.  Fink's objections  to                                                               
Section 19, and  the amount of evidence necessary for  a judge to                                                               
allow  a  self-defense  instruction  to be  given  to  the  jury,                                                               
whether  the judge  must already  engage in  fact-finding because                                                               
the  judge must  find  a scintilla  of  evidence. This  provision                                                               
would require just  a little bit more. He also  asked Mr. Fink if                                                               
he  thinks   every  time  a  self-defense   jury  instruction  is                                                               
requested, the judge should give one.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. FINK  said not in  every case. Currently, some  evidence must                                                               
be  provided so  the threshold  is very,  very low.  He said  the                                                               
system isn't  broken. He believes  allowing 12 minds  to evaluate                                                               
the  question is  better  than one.  He  repeated addressing  the                                                               
question of self-defense is the jury's role.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS asked:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Mr. Fink, do you have any  concern when you take a look                                                                    
     at   this    amendment?   This    specifically   amends                                                                    
     11.81.330(a),  the use  of non-deadly  force. But  if I                                                                    
     look  at 11.81.335,  the justification  for the  use of                                                                    
     deadly force in self-defense is  ... when to the extent                                                                    
     the  use   of  non-deadly  force  is   justified  under                                                                    
     11.81.330.  So  those two  statutes  are  kind of  tied                                                                    
     together  in  that this  also  applies  to the  use  of                                                                    
     deadly force as well. Am I reading that correctly?                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. FINK said he believes so.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS asked if the new  standard would apply to deadly or                                                               
non-deadly self-defense.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. FINK said that is correct.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
There  being no  further  questions of  Mr.  Fink, CHAIR  SEEKINS                                                               
asked Susan Parkes to testify.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SUSAN PARKES,  Deputy Attorney  General,  Department of  Law                                                               
(DOL), asked  to respond  to a few  issues raised  by testifiers.                                                               
First,  regarding the  immunity concerns,  DOL has  taken another                                                               
look   at  the   Gonzales  case.   DOL  believes   the  bill   is                                                               
constitutional as written but has  an amendment to offer that may                                                               
provide a "more conscious" approach.  She said the amendment uses                                                               
more cautious  language so that  instead of the  judge specifying                                                               
the  level of  the offense  that  the First  and Fifth  Amendment                                                               
would apply to,  the judge would indicate whether it  is a higher                                                               
level felony, meaning an unclassified  or A felony, a lower level                                                               
felony, meaning a  B or C felony, or a  misdemeanor. DOL believes                                                               
with that amount of direction,  the prosecution could responsibly                                                               
decide  whether to  grant immunity.  DOL also  believes that  may                                                               
address the concern about the link in the chain of evidence.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS  interjected  that   the  proposed  amendment  was                                                               
distributed to members.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKES continued by saying  that regarding the assault in the                                                               
 rd                                                                                                                             
3  degree provision  that would create a felony assault using the                                                               
standard  of  criminal  negligence,  the state  currently  has  a                                                               
felony  homicide statute,  AS 11.41.130,  so that  if a  person's                                                               
criminally  negligent  behavior  caused   the  death  of  another                                                               
person, that  person would  be prosecuted for  a class  B felony.                                                               
She pointed out  that under existing statutes, a  person who acts                                                               
in a criminally  negligent manner can be prosecuted  for a felony                                                               
so the change is not a huge leap.  DOL is proposing to fill a gap                                                               
in the assault statutes as currently written.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PARKES addressed  the  self-defense  provision and  informed                                                               
members that  the current purpose  of judges  in the court  is to                                                               
make decisions about what information  will be put before a jury.                                                               
SB 170  does not propose to  change a judge's role  but creates a                                                               
higher standard for a self-defense claim  to be put before a jury                                                               
to avoid unnecessary  delays and unmeritorious claims.  It is not                                                               
a  burden-shifting   proposal,  it  simply  asks   for  plausible                                                               
evidence.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
She said the  purported transaction language was  included in the                                                               
bill to  address what is  known as  a "drug rip-off  scenario." A                                                               
person may  think s/he is arriving  at a location to  be involved                                                               
in  a drug  deal when  in  actuality there  are no  drugs on  the                                                               
premises.  The point  is when  people meet  to engage  in a  drug                                                               
deal,  they  are engaging  in  a  dangerous activity  that  often                                                               
results in an  injury or death. If a person  intends to engage in                                                               
a drug deal,  whether it is real or purported,  that person could                                                               
not claim self-defense. The purpose  of the gang provision [would                                                               
be to  disallow a  claim of  self-defense] if  force was  used to                                                               
further a  criminal objective. Regarding  its application  to the                                                               
example  of  prostitution, a  prostitute  who  is attacked  by  a                                                               
customer  and  defends  herself   would  not  be  furthering  her                                                               
prostitution,  so  a  self-defense claim  would  be  permissible.                                                               
However, if  groups of individuals are  fighting over territories                                                               
or  retaliating over  drug dealings  or other  similar scenarios,                                                               
then  any   force  used  would   be  inherent  to   the  criminal                                                               
activities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PARKES  responded to  the  concerns  about the  third  party                                                               
custodian   provision   by   saying   that   the   common   sense                                                               
interpretation of  what is  meant by that  language is  clear. In                                                               
this state, a  judge would not allow charges to  be filed against                                                               
a third  party if it  was impossible to  report. She said  in her                                                               
experience, the  court tells third  parties that it is  not their                                                               
responsibility to  control this person and  keep them housebound;                                                               
they are  simply expected to  immediately report  violations they                                                               
become  aware  of   and  if  they  do  not,  they   are  open  to                                                               
prosecution. It has  not been her experience that  judges lay out                                                               
the specific  penalties. DOL is  proposing to make it  a specific                                                               
statute in Title  11 for several reasons, not the  least of which                                                               
is because  it would create  a clean, specific statute  for third                                                               
parties, unlike the criminal intent  statute. It will allow for a                                                               
cleaner prosecution  and will clearly describe  what was involved                                                               
on someone's record.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH asked, with respect  to subsection (a) in the self                                                               
defense provision, Ms. Parkes' opinion  of the suggestion made by                                                               
Ms. Wilson and  Mr. Fink that it apply only  to felony charges so                                                               
that it would  not apply to shoplifters, prostitutes  or a person                                                               
with a small amount of marijuana.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKES  said she has concerns  about that, as it  would apply                                                               
to  subsection (b).  She noted  that even  marijuana deals  often                                                               
turn deadly  because drug  dealers tend  to carry  guns. However,                                                               
she  would  be  open  to  that consideration  as  it  applies  to                                                               
subsection (a). She  noted DOL struggled with  that language when                                                               
drafting  the bill  and  looked to  the  statutory definition  of                                                               
street gangs  to try to  find language that would  be enforceable                                                               
and clear.  She repeated the suggestion is worth consideration.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH questioned  how the  plausible evidence  standard                                                               
would work:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Under  current law,  a judge  must ask  him or  herself                                                                    
     whether  there  is some  evidence  -  or I  think  it's                                                                    
     frequently a scintilla of evidence,  to support a self-                                                                    
     defense claim.  The standard proposed  by this  bill is                                                                    
     that  some   plausible  evidence   -  and   just  using                                                                    
     subsection (b)  as an  example to  work my  way through                                                                    
     how this  would work should  the law change,  would the                                                                    
     judge ask whether there's  some plausible evidence that                                                                    
     there was  no drug  deal in  the works  in order  for a                                                                    
     self-defense  claim to  get to  the jury?  Is that  the                                                                    
     logical way you'd sort of have to pose the question?                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKES  answered that  is her understanding  of how  it would                                                               
apply.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS asked  if the word "purported" means  that the jury                                                               
reasonably believed that a transaction was going to take place.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKES  agreed and explained,  "We can  see it both  ways. We                                                               
see the seller  who doesn't really come with the  product to sell                                                               
planning to  rob the  buyer or  the buyer coming  to rob  for the                                                               
drugs without ever planning to pay for them."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  questioned whether Ms.  Parkes had the  chance to                                                               
talk  to  the  folks  who  would draft  the  regulations  on  the                                                               
provision that allows disclosure  of adjudication information for                                                               
a juvenile sex crime about which scenarios that would apply to.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PARKES said  she  is involved  in  ongoing discussions  with                                                               
Patty Ware, the Director of  the Division of Juvenile Services in                                                               
DHSS, who  has come up  with some proposals. DOL  feels confident                                                               
that it  can provide  an amendment that  will satisfy  its public                                                               
safety  concerns  and  DHSS's  concern  to  limit  the  scope  of                                                               
disclosure.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS asked,  under SB 170, if he attempted  to engage in                                                               
an illegal  transaction with Senator  French and a  fight ensued,                                                               
whether  he  could  claim  self-defense  because  Senator  French                                                               
pulled his gun first.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PARKES indicated  she would  need to  know what  the illegal                                                               
activity was but,  if it was a drug deal  or purported drug deal,                                                               
he could claim self-defense.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked, "Are we trying  to get to some  point where                                                               
we are saying  the person knew there was  dangerous activity that                                                               
would take  place or could take  place or just that  they knew it                                                               
was an illegal transaction?"                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKES maintained that DOL is  trying to get at situations in                                                               
which people  know they are  engaging in an  inherently dangerous                                                               
activity where violence is often likely to occur.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH commented that  the drug-dealing scenario referred                                                               
to earlier could have been  a situation where an experienced drug                                                               
dealer  killed  a  more  innocent individual  but  could  not  be                                                               
prosecuted  because of  a self-defense  allegation, or  one could                                                               
imagine that  the younger, more vulnerable  individual killed the                                                               
experienced  drug dealer  in  an attempt  to  defend himself  but                                                               
could not  assert a self-defense  claim. He acknowledged  that he                                                               
is wrestling to  find a way to maintain a  self-defense claim for                                                               
a more culpable individual.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  then asked if  this bill simply  bars self-defense                                                               
versus making it an affirmative defense.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PARKES  said  it  would  bar a  self-defense  claim  if  the                                                               
defendant  cannot  come  up with  some  plausible  evidence  that                                                               
suggests otherwise.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS  referred to  Section  14,  assault in  the  third                                                               
degree (page 9), and said  line 2 reads, "causes physical injury"                                                               
while line 15  reads, "causes serious physical  injury." He asked                                                               
the difference between the two terms.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. PARKES said physical injury  is defined to mean physical pain                                                               
or an  impairment of  physical condition -  often referred  to as                                                               
bumps  and  bruises.  Serious  physical   injury  is  defined  as                                                               
"physical   injury    that   causes   serious    and   protracted                                                               
disfigurement, protracted  impairment of health,  protracted loss                                                               
or impairment of  the function of a body member  or organ or that                                                               
unlawfully terminate the pregnancy." She added that case law has                                                                
interpreted protracted impairment of health to mean an                                                                          
impairment that takes six to eight weeks to heal.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS announced that the Senate was about to begin its                                                                  
floor session so the committee would reschedule SB 170. He                                                                      
adjourned the meeting at 9:55 a.m.                                                                                              

Document Name Date/Time Subjects