02/13/2006 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB213 | |
| HB37 | |
| SB203 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 166 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 37 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 203 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 213 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 13, 2006
3:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair
Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Bert Stedman
Senator Kim Elton
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair
Senator Albert Kookesh
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 166
"An Act relating to an annual wildlife conservation tag;
relating to bond requirements for vendors of fish and game
licenses, permits, and tags; and providing for an effective
date."
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
SENATE BILL NO. 213
"An Act making an appropriation to the Department of Natural
Resources for airborne geological and geophysical mineral
inventory; and providing for an effective date."
MOVED SB 213 OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 37(FIN) am
"An Act relating to voluntary land trades and purchases to
enhance public access to fishing streams."
HEARD AND HELD
SENATE BILL NO. 203
"An Act relating to adoption and use of a unified permit
application form by the natural resource agencies; and providing
for online permit applications."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 213
SHORT TITLE: APPROPRIATION FOR MINERAL INVENTORY
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) THERRIAULT
01/09/06 (S) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/05
01/09/06 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/09/06 (S) RES, FIN
02/13/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: HB 37
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GARA
01/10/05 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/04
01/10/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/10/05 (H) FSH, RES
03/21/05 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124
03/21/05 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
03/23/05 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124
03/23/05 (H) Heard & Held
03/23/05 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
04/15/05 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124
04/15/05 (H) Moved CSHB 37(FSH) Out of Committee
04/15/05 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
04/18/05 (H) FSH RPT CS(FSH) NT 2DP 1DNP 2NR
04/18/05 (H) DP: ELKINS, THOMAS;
04/18/05 (H) DNP: SALMON;
04/18/05 (H) NR: KAPSNER, LEDOUX
04/18/05 (H) FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER RES
04/22/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/22/05 (H) Moved CSHB 37(RES) Out of Committee
04/22/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
04/25/05 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) NT 2DP 3NR
04/25/05 (H) DP: ELKINS, CRAWFORD;
04/25/05 (H) NR: OLSON, SAMUELS, LEDOUX
05/07/05 (H) FIN AT 2:00 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
05/07/05 (H) Moved CSHB 37(FIN) Out of Committee
05/07/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
05/08/05 (H) FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 3DP 6NR 1AM
05/08/05 (H) DP: CROFT, FOSTER, MOSES;
05/08/05 (H) NR: HAWKER, HOLM, STOLTZE, WEYHRAUCH,
JOULE, MEYER;
05/08/05 (H) AM: KELLY
05/09/05 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
05/09/05 (H) VERSION: CSHB 37(FIN) AM
05/10/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/10/05 (S) RES, FIN
02/06/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/06/06 (S) Heard & Held
02/06/06 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/13/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SB 203
SHORT TITLE: UNIFIED PERMIT APPLICATION
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) GUESS
01/09/06 (S) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/05
01/09/06 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/09/06 (S) RES, FIN
02/13/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
SENATOR GENE THERRIAULT
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 213.
ROBERT SWENSON, Acting Director
Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 213.
STEVE CULLIGAN, President
Ditera Satellite Mapping Company
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 213.
REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 37.
SARAH GILBERTSON, Special Assistant
Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802-5226
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 37.
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 203.
DICK MYLIUS, Director
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Available for question on SB 203.
RANDY BATES, Acting Director
Office of Project Management and Permitting
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 203.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:35:56 PM. Present were Senators
Stedman, Elton, Dyson and Chair Wagoner who announced that SB
166 would be postponed.
SB 213-APPROPRIATION FOR MINERAL INVENTORY
CHAIR WAGONER announced SB 213 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR GENE THERRIAULT, sponsor of SB 213, testified that more
investments in the mineral industry like the Pogo Mine that is
pouring its very first gold brick, is what this appropriation
seeks to achieve for the State of Alaska. The mineral industry
provides healthy tax receipts and private sector employment. He
said that SB 213 proposes an appropriation of $5 million for
geophysical surveys that would be doled out over several years
in line with a recommendation from the Alaska Minerals
Commission, which asked for a level greater than $1 million per
year.
3:39:44 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT related that inconsistent funding provided
since 1993 caused problems in planning strategic geophysical
survey programs and the state was not, therefore, getting
efficient use of its dollars.
3:43:00 PM
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN said he liked the concept of looking
forward to map a consistent future for the state's resources,
because Alaska is a resource-based state. He asked if
technological advances created a need to update old survey
information.
SENATOR THERRIAULT replied that the work that has been done over
the past couple of years is pretty close to cutting edge, but
that old information was sketchy.
3:46:20 PM
SENATOR KIM ELTON asked if parallel surveys are happening on
federal and BLM land.
SENATOR THERRIAULT replied the federal government is working on
surveying its lands, too, and has provided some money to the
state for this project.
SENATOR ELTON asked if the state is surveying some federal
lands, too.
SENATOR THERRIAULT replied yes.
3:47:52 PM
ROBERT SWENSON, Acting Director, Division of Geological and
Geophysical Surveys, Department of Natural Resources (DNR),
explained the state's mineral resource program using a power
point program. Its mission is to conduct geological and
geophysical surveys to determine the potential of Alaskan land
for production of metals, minerals, fuels and geothermal
resources; the locations and supplies of groundwater and
construction materials; and the potential geologic hazards to
buildings, roads, bridges and other installations and
structures. The department identifies Alaska's potential
resources for the state's citizens.
3:51:23 PM
He explained digital elevation modeling and how it showed
tremendous diversity in all the samples by referencing the power
point presentation.
3:52:04 PM
SENATOR BEN STEVENS arrived.
3:53:21 PM
MR. SWENSON explained that the state has funded high-resolution
geophysics mapping of 6.1 million state acres and the Bureau of
Land Management (BLM) had fund mapping of 3.7 million federal
acres. Currently, 40 million acres are identified as high
potential. High-resolution geophysics mapping costs about $575
per square mile or about $.90 per acre and over three million
acres of 1:63,360-detailed geologic mapping has been completed
and published using it. The entire state has a lot of geophysics
data already, but it's very regional. His slides on Interior
data on current operating mines and showed that lots of
exploration is going on.
4:02:55 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked how much the DGGS sells its data for and if
it has a cost recovery program.
MR. SWENSON replied that the data is very cheap and he makes
sure it is available to everyone in the public. Their website is
updated so that the data can be downloaded. He didn't have a
specific cost recovery program.
4:04:42 PM
STEVE CULLIGAN, President, Ditera Satellite Mapping Company,
stated that the DGGS had done a good job of using its funding
and has provided very useful data that has turned into some
successful developments. He said that the state's mapping is in
pretty poor shape in general and that he is using the same
inaccurate maps that he used 35 years ago. The state needs to
know what resources it has and geological mapping has a very
high return on investment. He supported SB 213.
4:08:12 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT stated that it is unusual to have a separate
appropriation bill with a line item to make its way through the
process, but he hoped the committee felt comfortable with
passing the bill. He said the state rides the commodity roller
coaster up and down, so it should strike while the commodity
prices are high and establish an outline of its resource
inventory so private industry can act.
4:10:09 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked if anything could change the funding from $1
million every five years to, say, $2.5 million in two years.
SENATOR THERRIAULT replied that the department would have the
latitude to do that, but it is not interested in sharp swings up
and down and he doubted it would.
4:12:16 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN moved to pass SB 213 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was
so ordered.
CSHB 37(FIN)am -PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS
4:14:23 PM
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced CSHB 37(FIN)am to be up for
consideration. He said that his main concern is exactly what
type of access it provides. Certain groups, not necessarily the
State of Alaska, have spent a lot of money repairing stream
banks damaged by individual fishermen wanting access. He knew of
two or three places on the Kenai River that were closed to
access because they are very important to smolt habitat.
REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA, sponsor of HB 37, said that it
addresses two separate issues. He explained that both the Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and Department of Natural
Resources (DNR) have the right to deny public access if damage
is being caused and nothing in this bill would change that -
that could even be emphasized in this bill. He did not intend to
say the public always has to have access regardless of whether
they are causing damage to a riverbank.
SARAH GILBERTSON, Special Assistant, Alaska Department of Fish
and Game (ADF&G), said she couldn't find anything in statute on
that issue, but she learned that in maintaining access, ADF&G
tries to do so in a habitat-friendly manner and the Kenai River
is under the Upper Cook Inlet management plan.
4:19:54 PM
SENATOR KIM ELTON said he assumed, with the permissions of this
bill, that the ADF&G would be identifying areas to seek to find
common ground on providing access. He assumed that process would
include a decision prior to making any kind of an offer on
access as to whether or not habitat degradation would occur. He
assumed that meant that anyplace the department thought had
habitat degradation wouldn't be prioritized as an area needing
access and would focus on areas in which degradation was less
likely to occur.
MS. GILBERTSON replied that that language could be put in the
bill if the sponsor supported it.
REPRESENTATIVE GARA explained that since the state is the
landowner, Department of Natural Resources would, in
consultation with the Department of Fish and Game, decide what
areas needed to be protected. AS 38.05.035 gives ADF&G the power
to regulate access and habitat protection and that language
could be clarified in the bill.
4:22:15 PM
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN said he was not comfortable with this bill.
For example, language on page 2, line 4, says that private land
ownership prevents public access to a section or waterway that
is highly desirable for fishing or other recreational
attributes. "Recreational attributes" is broad language and he
was concerned about potential abuses. Also, he wanted to see
more property privatized rather than the other way around.
4:23:39 PM
CHAIR WAGONER said that the state can already determine that an
area does not have enough public access and acquire property
through the right of eminent domain. But he was having a tough
time with the idea of taking land out of private hands and
putting it into public hands and taking it off the tax rolls.
4:24:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARA responded that overall he understood the tax
issue and the need to get more land into private hands, but that
doesn't mean the state shouldn't protect public access. Language
on page 2, line 16, asks the department to focus on undeveloped
lands that aren't doing much for the tax rolls anyhow. Making
access available would benefit the state in other ways.
4:25:55 PM
SENATOR FRED DYSON asked if an easement would increase a
property's value.
REPRESENTATIVE GARA explained that the value of surrounding land
would go up because of additional access. He added that
acquisition of land is completely voluntary.
CHAIR WAGONER remarked that there is a lot of litter and noise
along public accesses.
4:29:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARA explained that he is just asking the state
to identify at least two linear miles (from about 100,000 miles)
of riverbank, which he thought would take 10 to 20 years to buy.
Three areas have been identified already - Montana Creek, the
Anchor River and the Salcha River. The bill also focuses on
undeveloped areas so land should be cheaper to purchase.
CHAIR WAGONER asked if those streams have problems currently.
REPRESENTATIVE GARA replied yes, problems are developing on
Montana Creek. He was not talking about the Kenai River and said
he could exempt it in this bill, but rather small streams that
can't be floated down where people have to stop on the gravel
bars.
4:31:41 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN was concerned that "initial list" on page 3,
line 26, carried the potential of abuse since that applied to
any stream in the state with fish in it.
REPRESENTATIVE GARA responded that the bill's intent is to do
just the opposite. He reiterated that the state can exercise
eminent domain anywhere now, but this bill says to only
prioritize two miles for access and to focus on undeveloped
lands, basically staying away from developed properties that are
way to expensive to spend state money on. Language on page 2,
line 18, says the state should focus on the "greatest potential
for public recreational and subsistence use."
SENATOR STEDMAN said he didn't see that language in the bill.
Clearly the initial language includes any stream that has fish
in it. Also, language on page 3, line 13, says the plan must
include a minimum access - not less than a total of two linear
miles. So it could be greater than two linear miles.
REPRESENTATIVE GARA responded that he didn't think the state
would identify more than two miles since it's expensive to
survey and government would resist spending the money to
identify a 100-mile list of lands when it doesn't even have the
money to buy the first two miles.
SENATOR ELTON said he can see both sides, but he envisioned this
process would be more community-based.
4:38:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARA replied that the bill provides for public
comment. He added that the only lands that are being bought back
now are the ones that resource groups have identified for
purchase.
4:39:29 PM
CHAIR WAGONER said he would hold the bill for further study.
4:39:45 PM
SB 203-UNIFIED PERMIT APPLICATION
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced SB 203 to be up for
consideration.
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS, sponsor of SB 203, said she wanted to
create a one-stop online permitting system whenever two or more
agencies need to permit a project. SB 203 breaks her proposal
down into two phases, one for each year. The first phase would
be for designing the permit application and the second for
development of the online system. She explained that Legislative
Legal did not like the language on page 9 that excluded De
Minimus projects that require only a standard condition, but she
did not intend to include small permits, but rather to target
developments where people have to go to multiple agencies for
permits.
4:44:50 PM
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN moved to adopt Amendment 1.
A M E N D M E N T 1
OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR GUESS
TO: SB 203
Page 1, line 4, through page 2, line 22:
Delete all material.
Page 2, line 23:
Delete "Sec. 5"
Insert "Section 1"
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 9, following line 6:
Insert a new paragraph to read:
"(3) a limited entry permit under AS 16.43;"
Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.
CHAIR WAGONER announced that there were no objections and
Amendment 1 was adopted.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked how the departments would work together
under SB 203.
SENATOR GUESS replied that she hoped that there wouldn't be turf
battles and that people would look for common elements, not
diversity. It might not be easy on the departments nor
inexpensive, but the State of Alaska would be viewed as being
open for business. The focus would be on writing the correct
permit for the area and, "Not trying to get someone through the
hurdles of paperwork."
4:47:28 PM
DICK MYLIUS, Director, Division of Mining, Land and Water,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said he was available to
answer questions.
RANDY BATES, Acting Director, Office of Project Management and
Permitting, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said that
ADF&G, DNR and DEC supported the concept of permit streamlining,
but did not support SB 203 for three reasons. The first reason
was that the unified permit application concept as proposed
fails for practical reasons; secondly, the departments are
already streamlining their application process; and thirdly, the
financial support is not available to implement the bill.
4:49:43 PM
SENATOR ELTON said it makes sense for people to apply on line.
MR. BATES replied that it makes sense and DEC is moving towards
online permit applications and DNR is developing an online
coastal project questionnaire for an online permit specific to
two of its agencies. The interactive application is a four-year
project that will cost a little more than $4 million.
SENATOR ELTON pointed out that he didn't disagree with this part
of the bill, but language on page 6 talks about permit
application information on the Internet being done within one
year rather than four. He asked if he disagreed with just the
deadlines.
MR. BATES responded that a one-year deadline is a worthy goal,
but it is difficult to fill out 30 or 40 applications in the
confines of one year.
SENATOR ELTON replied that he thought that was why this bill was
needed - if all those applications were going to be done by
paper.
4:53:58 PM
CHAIR WAGONER said that the Alaska Mining Association was real
hesitant about this bill because the process is already working
for them. They are getting their permits in a timely fashion and
would rather rely on proven technology, not new technology.
4:55:12 PM
SENATOR GUESS responded that just because one industry or one
group of people in Alaska is familiar with the process doesn't
mean that it is the best process, especially when the state is
trying to encourage new entrants into the market. She wanted to
make clear for the record that SB 203 is not changing the permit
process, but it is changing the application process. She
emphasized that permits would not be written differently. She
has asked DNR for any suggested changes, but she hadn't received
any at this time, but she had received suggestions from ADF&G.
She thought that creating one unified online application made
more sense than creating three different online application
systems. The current databases refer to the same elements as
different things. She remarked:
I don't think we have an efficient system right now
and I think it would behoove the state to move towards
it.... Although it might fail for practical reasons
now, I don't think it fails for practical reasons in
our future.
CHAIR WAGONER stated that he would hold the bill and address it
again later and adjourned the meeting at 4:58:49 PM.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|