Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
03/08/2022 03:30 PM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SR3 | |
| SJR20 | |
| SB152 | |
| SB92 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SR 3 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 152 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SJR 20 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 92 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 152-LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS IN ANCHORAGE
3:56:10 PM
CHAIR SHOWER announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 152
"An Act relating to the convening of the legislature at the
capital and in the Municipality of Anchorage; relating to the
location of legislative sessions; and relating to the emergency
relocation of functions of state government."
CHAIR SHOWER solicited a motion to adopt the proposed committee
substitute.
3:56:55 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS)
for SB 152, work order 32-LS1306\I, as the working document.
CHAIR SHOWER objected for purposes of discussion.
CHAIR SHOWER, speaking as sponsor of SB 152, explained the CS
seeks to address the concern that deleting the phrase "if the
legislature is convened in a municipality other than the capital
city" in several places throughout the bill might be interpreted
as an intent to move the capital from Juneau. The CS addresses
that to clarify that the bill is only talking about legislative
sessions and the intent is to move the session every other year.
SENATOR REINBOLD stated that she plans to be a co-sponsor.
3:59:42 PM
CHAIR SHOWER removed his objection; finding no further
objection, the CS for SB 152 was adopted.
SENATOR KAWASAKI noted that the fiscal note is indeterminate. He
said he read the analysis and it raised some questions.
4:00:32 PM
JESSICA GEARY, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs Agency,
Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, stated that the
analysis reflects the challenge to quantify the costs when there
are no specifics in the bill about the policy decisions that
need to be made.
4:01:26 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI referenced the second paragraph of the fiscal
note analysis.
This fiscal note is indeterminate as several policy
decisions are necessary to estimate the fiscal impact
of this legislation, such as:
He asked if she had any cost estimates for the two special
sessions under Governor Palin and Governor Walker that were held
outside the capital city.
MS. GEARY said yes, but it is not an apples to apples
comparison. Special sessions are limited in duration and scope
and the upfront costs are spread over just a few days whereas
for a regular session the upfront costs are spread over a much
longer timeframe.
The cost for the two day special session in Anchorage under
Governor Palin was in the neighborhood of $78,000 per day while
the general estimate for a special session in Juneau is about
$30,000 per day. In regular sessions the range of topics covered
is much broader, more staff is needed, and more bills are
drafted, all of which makes a comparison difficult. She offered
to provide the historical cost information she had if that would
be useful to the committee.
SENATOR KAWASAKI said he believes that information is necessary
to provide a baseline.
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked the sponsor whether a facility in the
Municipality of Anchorage had been identified that potentially
had 10 committee rooms, 60 legislative offices with adequate
space for partisan staff as well as staff for legislative
finance, legal services, information technology, security, and
printing and documents, all with adequate parking.
4:05:07 PM
CHAIR SHOWER asked if he was requesting the cost estimates.
SENATOR KAWASAKI answered yes. He acknowledged he was not
familiar with the availability of buildings in the Municipality
of Anchorage that could accommodate the legislature during a
regular session but he wondered whether a new building was
envisioned. He asked if that was the intent.
4:06:03 PM
CHAIR SHOWER said buildings have been identified in the past
that would serve the purpose, but at this point the concept is
at the 30 thousand foot level. He added that he did not care one
way or the other whether legislative sessions were held in
Juneau or elsewhere but he did know that others had very strong
feelings about more access to their legislators during regular
sessions. He agreed that there would be associated costs, but
pointed out that there would be savings as well on per diem. He
described the bill as a balanced bridge approach that responds
to the will of the people. He also predicted that the bill would
die in finance without getting a hearing.
He committed to get the requested information from Ms. Geary to
add to the broad discussion. He opined that it wouldn't matter,
but he still wanted to move the bill from committee.
4:08:30 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI said the information matters if the committee
intends to move the bill. He asked the sponsor to comment on the
statement about per diem in the fiscal note.
Per Diem. This bill would result in a savings for
legislator per diem due to approximately 24 fewer
legislators being eligible; however, overall, per diem
cost would increase significantly as a result of
approximately 40 non-partisan staff relocating to
Anchorage a net increase of 16 individuals eligible
to receive per diem. Further, the Anchorage per diem
rate is traditionally higher than the Juneau per diem
rate. Relocation. This bill would result in minimal
savings f
CHAIR SHOWER said Ms. Geary would need to expand the discussion
in the fiscal note, but he recalled that rates in Anchorage
during regular sessions are cheaper than in Juneau. Further, it
would actually be 33 legislators plus their staff who would not
be eligible for per diem because legislators from the MatSu
Valley fall into the 50-mile radius. He restated that the bill
offers a balanced approach.
4:10:22 PM
MS. GEARY agreed that per current rules, members within the 50-
mile radius of the regular session would not be eligible for per
diem. She said the per diem rate for Anchorage is $354 year
round whereas the Juneau rate is set by Legislative Council
policy and does not change throughout the session. Currently the
rate is $307 per day, but if that were adjusted seasonally the
summer rate would be $367 per day.
CHAIR SHOWER asked whether Legislative Council could set the
same policy for a regular session in Anchorage.
MS. GEARY answered yes; that is within the purview of
Legislative Council.
CHAIR SHOWER opined that rather than saying the Anchorage rate
is higher, it would be more accurate to say that the rate would
be whatever Legislative Council wanted it to be.
4:11:58 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD commented on how tight things were when the
capitol building was being remodeled and pointed out that
multiple special sessions had been held in the gymnasium. She
said the point is that legislators do not need fancy facilities.
She opined that the bill would reduce per diem, give legislators
more access to the people, and expand the pool of people who
would run for office. She also pointed out that per diem for
staff is just one percent of what legislators receive because
they receive salaries year round. She urged legislators to be
creative in putting forward ideas for potential sites to hold
regular legislative sessions.
CHAIR SHOWER requested his staff provide clarifying comments.
4:13:35 PM
SCOTT OGAN, Staff, Senator Mike Shower, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, stated that what has not been
discussed is the cost savings the bill represents to the
administration because most directors and commissioners are paid
per diem when they travel from Anchorage to testify on
legislation.
CHAIR SHOWER said he had not thought to discuss that point.
SENATOR REINBOLD said people learned to work remotely over the
last two years so Legislative Legal Services and other staff
should be able to stay in Juneau and work remotely if a regular
session were held in Anchorage. She further suggested that VPSOs
could provide security and pages could come from the local
community. She thanked the sponsor for bringing the bill
forward.
CHAIR SHOWER clarified that the point is not to move the
capital. Rather, the driving point is increased access and
getting people more involved in government. He agreed with the
point that working remotely is much easier today than it was two
years ago.
4:16:47 PM
SENATOR HOLLAND agreed there is a clamor to make the legislature
more accessible by putting it on the road system. He described
SB 152 as a good bill.
CHAIR SHOWER commented on the high cost to stay in Juneau.
4:18:32 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI noted that the language in Section 3 confines
the second legislative session to the Municipality of Anchorage
so it could not be held in Fairbanks, for example.
CHAIR SHOWER agreed that is how the bill was drafted.
SENATOR KAWASAKI said he was responding to Senator Reinbold's
comment about moving legislative sessions to different locations
when the bill clearly identifies the Municipality of Anchorage.
SENATOR REINBOLD said she understands that but believes that
other options should be considered, particularly for special
sessions.
4:19:33 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI referenced Mr. Ogan's point about potential
cost savings to the administration and asked if that means those
agencies have not been consulted and asked to submit fiscal
notes.
MR. OGAN offered his understanding that the administration had
not submitted a fiscal note.
CHAIR SHOWER clarified that the answer was no.
4:20:12 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI highlighted the points in the fiscal note
analysis that discusses infrastructure.
Infrastructure. Video, audio, and hi-speed internet
capabilities as well as network support would need to
be installed in leased or new space to replicate
existing capabilities for committee rooms, chambers,
and offices. Specifically, electronic voting boards
and audio system in the chambers;
teleconference/videoconference capable systems
installed in committee rooms; security camera system
for the building; as well as specialized equipment for
the Offices of the Chief Clerk and Senate Secretary;
commercial copiers; etc. Additionally, per KTOO, Gavel
TV does not have the resources to support sessions in
a location outside the capital. If similar coverage
was desired, either another entity or the Legislature
would need to provide professional production quality
coverage previously provided by Gavel TV, including
camera/audio infrastructure as well as pro
He state that Gavel Alaska is extremely important to his mother
and the people of Alaska, all of whom would lose that benefit if
sessions were held outside Juneau. He asked how the bill
envisions offsetting that loss.
4:21:07 PM
MR. OGAN said he imagines a transition period before a
legislative session is moved to set up a functional replacement
system. Anchorage was selected because most legislators live in
the vicinity, he said.
4:22:34 PM
CHAIR SHOWER pointed out that most bills provide intent but do
not tell people how to do something, and the same applies to SB
152. It is a reasonable compromise to provide people more access
to their legislators. There is a solution to all the problems
that might be raised because every problem has a solution.
CHAIR SHOWER requested a list of all the questions and committed
to get answers from Ms. Geary and the other agencies. He said
the committee will receive a copy and that information will be
in the bill packet.
CHAIR SHOWER asked for final questions or comments.
4:25:16 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI said he asked the questions because the bill is
an important policy decision and for complete transparency it's
important to know how it will work. He said he didn't know that
legislators would receive more input from the people if
[legislative sessions] were moved but he could say that when he
participated in the special session in the Egan Center in
downtown Anchorage, almost no guests attended the floor sessions
other than family of legislators. In the special session in
2015, the attendance was stronger but it was largely confined to
the organized groups speaking on the budget. Individual citizens
did not show up. He also mentioned poorly attended townhalls.
SENATOR KAWASAKI said the legislature's work is in Juneau and
without additional information about the policy decisions that
will make this a bill that will improve transparency and access
to the public, he couldn't support it.
CHAIR SHOWER responded that it's not possible to know whether
the bill will increase access until it's tried. He opined that
plenty of people will show up, depending on the issue. He said
he was in Wasilla in 2019 and was swamped, and all townhalls in
the MatSu are standing room only and there is a desire for more.
He maintained that the work can be wherever legislators want it
to be. He restated that he was trying to find a solution that
would be satisfactory to both sides of the debate.
SENATOR REINBOLD commented that the listening sessions and
townhalls she had hosted usually were very busy because they
were about issues that affected people's lives.
4:31:06 PM
SENATOR HOLLAND commented that facilities come and go but there
was plenty of availability in Anchorage.
4:31:22 PM
At ease
4:31:38 PM
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.
SENATOR HOLLAND continued to say that this is something the
people of Alaska want to see happen.
CHAIR SHOWER emphasized that this bill is not about moving the
capital; rather, it is about moving every other legislative
session to the Municipality of Anchorage.
4:32:56 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI said his recommendation on the committee report
will be "do not pass" because he needs more information on the
policy decisions, but he appreciates that the sponsor will move
through that.
CHAIR SHOWER restated his commitment to work through the policy
decisions.
Finding no further questions or comments, he solicited a motion.
4:33:31 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD moved to report CSSB 152, work order 32-
lS1306\I, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached fiscal note(s).
4:33:43 PM
CHAIR SHOWER found no objection and CSSB 152(STA) was reported
from the Senate State Affairs Standing Committee
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 152 FN.pdf |
SSTA 3/8/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 152 |
| SB 152 CS.pdf |
SSTA 3/8/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 152 |
| SB92 FN FCS.pdf |
SSTA 3/8/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 92 |
| SB92 FN DPS.pdf |
SSTA 3/8/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 92 |