Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/05/2003 03:34 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
           SB 149-TIMBER/ TIMBER SALES/ STATE FORESTS                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN reminded  members that  the committee  had adopted  a                                                               
committee substitute (CS), Version H,  as its working document at                                                               
the last  meeting and announced  the committee would  take public                                                               
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BOBBY  JO SKEVO  (ph),  representing  herself, said  the  CS                                                               
dramatically weakens  the planning process for  timber management                                                               
on state lands.  She said the existing  five-year management plan                                                               
process works. When people know a  timber sale is coming up, they                                                               
have  the  opportunity  to  plan ahead.  She  added  that  salmon                                                               
habitat is always a significant state interest.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN  noted that  Mr.  Jeff  Jahnke, State  Forester,  was                                                               
available to answer questions.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON noted the deletion of  language on page 2, lines 2-                                                               
4,  requiring  the  commissioner  to  consider  information  that                                                               
describes immediate  and long term  effects of  forest activities                                                               
on the timber base and on  other resources and uses. He asked Mr.                                                               
Jahnke  whether  the  information that  describes  immediate  and                                                               
long-term effects is useful.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEFF JAHNKE,  Division of  Forestry,  Department of  Natural                                                               
Resources (DNR), said the intent  is to remove the requirement to                                                               
provide information  on the collective  effects on a  forest land                                                               
use plan  (FLUP) for  a relatively small  area of  the landscape.                                                               
The  Division   of  Forestry  believes  the   collective  effects                                                               
analyses would be  better placed in the area plan  and the forest                                                               
management plan for the state forest.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON asked  Mr. Jahnke  to describe  "collective forest                                                               
activities" and  suggested eliminating  the word  "collective" if                                                               
the terminology is the problem.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAHNKE  said by "collective  effects" he means the  effect of                                                               
multiple actions  across the landscape  or across a  watershed as                                                               
opposed to an individual project.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  asked  why  it  is   a  bad  idea  to  have  that                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAHNKE  said he is  not saying it's  a bad idea,  he believes                                                               
the best place for that information  is in the broader scale area                                                               
plan and forest management plan.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON referred  to language  on page  4, line  10, which                                                               
says the primary purpose of  establishing state forests is timber                                                               
management. He asked:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Are  we  talking  about just  when  state  forests  are                                                                    
     established  and why  they are  established  or are  we                                                                    
     suggesting that,  for example,  if you  take a  look at                                                                    
     the  Haines  State  Forest where  there  are  competing                                                                    
     uses,  including  an  increasing  demand  from  tourism                                                                    
     operators  who  are  accessing  that  area,  does  this                                                                    
     suggest  that  timber  trumps tourism  each  and  every                                                                    
     time?                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JAHNKE said  he believes  it  means timber  has priority  if                                                               
there is a conflict between the two.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON asked:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     If there  is an  established tourism  organization that                                                                    
     is doing  canoe or raft  float trips down a  river that                                                                    
     runs through the Haines State  Forest and if there is a                                                                    
     proposal  that there  be a  timber harvest  in adjacent                                                                    
     lands  to where  that float  trip is  utilizing it  ...                                                                    
     this  language   to  me   suggests  that   that  timber                                                                    
     operation   would  always   be   prioritized  over   an                                                                    
     established  business that  is currently  that part  of                                                                    
     the state  forest. Would that  be a  correct assumption                                                                    
     on my part?                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAHNKE  said only if  there is,  in fact, a  conflict between                                                               
the two users.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said he was assuming  that it is easy to perceive a                                                               
conflict  on  the  part  of  the float  trip  operator.  He  then                                                               
referred to language on  page 4, line 5, and asked  if there is a                                                               
statutory definition of the term "compelling state interest."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JAHNKE said  he is  not aware  of a  definition in  statute.                                                               
However,  he is  aware of  substantial case  law that  identifies                                                               
what a "compelling state interest" is.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  asked  Mr.  Jahnke  if he  is  referring  to  the                                                               
judicial system.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAHNKE  replied, "I think  that the definition that  has come                                                               
about as  a result  of reviewing  'compelling state  interest' in                                                               
the  court system  would be  looked at  as providing  guidance to                                                               
what 'compelling state interest' is."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON commented  that it would be interesting  to know if                                                               
DNR uses  a grid to  determine a "compelling state  interest" and                                                               
requested a  copy of such  a document  before SB 149  reaches the                                                               
Senate floor.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN indicated the grid would  be art. VIII, sec. 1, of the                                                               
Alaska  Constitution, which  says resources  should be  developed                                                               
for the maximum benefit of the  people. They also must be managed                                                               
on  a  sustained  yield  basis  subject  to  preferences  amongst                                                               
beneficial  uses.  He  said  the  Constitution  clearly  provides                                                               
authority to  establish a preference.  He reads this bill  to say                                                               
the highest  use of  state forests is  for timber  production. He                                                               
said  some  would  argue  that  not  doing  that  would  be  poor                                                               
stewardship.  He maintained  that the  forests around  the Haines                                                               
area are not  healthy because of spruce  bark beetle infestation.                                                               
He pointed  out that forest  fires do  not occur in  Southeast so                                                               
the other  way to  manage timber is  through the  sustained yield                                                               
principle of timber harvest.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said it sounds to  him like Mr. Jahnke has a pretty                                                               
good notion  of what  a "compelling state  interest" is  based on                                                               
court cases and asked for  that information before SB 149 reaches                                                               
the floor.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAHNKE agreed to provide information.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN  said she asked  Mr. Jahnke the same  question at                                                               
the  last  meeting and  Mr.  Jahnke  was  supposed to  provide  a                                                               
definition to the committee.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  said he  believes it  is important  that members                                                               
remember  the  State of  Alaska  has  some very  strict  riparian                                                               
standards that  require 100  or 200-foot  buffer zones  along the                                                               
river, as well  as harvest limits. Those standards  would make it                                                               
very difficult  to not enjoy a  float trip on a  glacial river in                                                               
the Haines State Forest. He expressed concern that:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     We're  creating the  wrong picture  when we  think that                                                                    
     it's an  either-or situation and  that for  some reason                                                                    
     that it would  be offensive to every  tourist that came                                                                    
     into the  state if they  were to see where  someone had                                                                    
     cut down  a tree  in order to  provide jobs  for Alaska                                                                    
     people.  So,   in  the  terms  of   multiple  use,  the                                                                    
     agriculture  department  with  the national  forests  -                                                                    
     multiple use  originally meant  that it  allowed things                                                                    
     like  timber  harvesting,  mining, cattle  grazing,  as                                                                    
     well  as  other  uses,  but it  didn't  mean  that  you                                                                    
     couldn't timber harvest if someone  was going to object                                                                    
     that it might  take away their idea of  what a pristine                                                                    
     view  should  be.  There  are   millions  of  acres  of                                                                    
     national parks in the State  of Alaska that accommodate                                                                    
     that. There  are darn  few forests. And  to be  able to                                                                    
     say that some of these forests  should be put to use to                                                                    
     be harvested to  be able to sell timber, to  be able to                                                                    
     employ Alaskans, ... that if  for some reason that that                                                                    
     were to  offend an individual  of some kind  who didn't                                                                    
     want to see that, I don't  think is good policy for the                                                                    
     state.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[SENATOR WAGONER arrived.]                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  said he  would continue to  take public  testimony at                                                               
this time.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALBERT  POTT, a  Fairbanks sawmill operator  for the  last 33                                                               
years, said  he would  like to  see this  legislation pass  as is                                                               
because  it  puts  the  state's forests  back  to  their  primary                                                               
purpose. The  original state forest  bill passed  because 253,000                                                               
acres was  set aside  for the Chena  Hot Springs  recreation area                                                               
and because land earmarked for  timber harvest was being "chopped                                                               
up"  for   other  purposes.  When  that   legislation  was  being                                                               
considered,  the state  forester and  deputy commissioner  of DNR                                                               
opposed it  because they believed it  took too much land  for one                                                               
use. The result was the  establishment of 14 uses compatible with                                                               
timber  harvest.  Over  the  years,  timber  harvest  has  become                                                               
secondary to all of the other uses.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. NANCY  FRESCO, Northern  Alaska Environmental  Center (NAEC),                                                               
told  members  that  although  the  Tanana  Valley  State  Forest                                                               
comprises only 2,000,000 acres, it  is under some of the greatest                                                               
competition for multiple use. The  NAEC believes the multiple use                                                               
designation is  the most  appropriate one.  She pointed  out that                                                               
under the  current plan,  almost all  of the  land in  the Tanana                                                               
Valley State Forest  is harvested on a sustained  yield basis. It                                                               
is  a  working  forest  used  for  hunting,  fishing,  non-timber                                                               
products,  recreation and  tourism. The  economic value  of those                                                               
uses has  not been  measured. A study  is being  undertaken right                                                               
now to  place a  value on the  other uses. SB  149 puts  the cart                                                               
before the horse by placing timber harvest as the top priority.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRESCO told members she has  a Masters degree in forestry and                                                               
environmental  studies so  this issue  is  near and  dear to  her                                                               
heart. She  said before  any changes  are made  to the  status of                                                               
value-added, the state  needs to determine some  means of showing                                                               
what value is being added to the  trees and it needs to provide a                                                               
more flexible  definition which adding  to the list will  not do.                                                               
Regarding buffer zones,  SB 88 adds buffer  standards to interior                                                               
waterways. A  lot of  scientific and  community effort  went into                                                               
reaching  agreement on  SB 88  but that  legislation has  not yet                                                               
been  enacted. She  would hate  to see  [SB 149]  undermine those                                                               
efforts. She emphasized that a  lot of positive public effort was                                                               
made to make  the Tanana Valley State Forest  a working, multiple                                                               
use forest. It  would be a mistake to change  that designation at                                                               
this point  in time, after so  many people have worked  to find a                                                               
balance between all of the viable uses.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN   stated  that  Senator   Lincoln  has   proposed  an                                                               
amendment,  which he  supports,  that  deletes "41.17.230(c)"  on                                                               
page  5,  line   17.  It  retains  the   public  hearing  process                                                               
requirement.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  LINCOLN  explained  the amendment  [Amendment  1]  would                                                               
retain the section that reads:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     A management plan  may not be adopted  or revised after                                                                    
     the  establishment of  the state  forest without  prior                                                                    
     review  by   the  Board  of   Forestry  and   by  other                                                                    
     appropriate  state  agencies  or without  prior  public                                                                    
     hearing held  in a  community approximately  located to                                                                    
     the state forest or to a unit of a state forest.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
She moved to adopt Amendment 1.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS objected and asked for time to consider it.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN informed  those who are testifying  that the committee                                                               
is considering retaining the public process provision.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:00 p.m.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBERT OTT told members  that the Tanana Chiefs Council (TCC)                                                               
supports  most of  the changes  in CSSB  149(RES) but  it remains                                                               
concerned  about a  few issues.  TCC's  first concern  is in  the                                                               
change to the primary purpose of  the forest from multiple use to                                                               
timber  production.  He  pointed   out  the  current  [statutory]                                                               
language says multiple use  provides for production, utilization,                                                               
and replenishment  of timber resources  so it  already emphasizes                                                               
timber. The Tanana Valley State Forest  is a public forest; not a                                                               
tree  farm. TCC  is concerned  that people  deriving income  from                                                               
non-timber forest  products may be  shortchanged if a  big timber                                                               
industry were  to develop.  TCC believes  that anyone  looking to                                                               
derive  revenue   from  the  state  forests   should  have  equal                                                               
opportunity to  do so. The  emphasis should  not be on  timber at                                                               
the exclusion of other things if a conflict arises.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTT  said TCC's second  concern is with Section  14. Removing                                                               
the requirement  to review  the plan every  five years  seems too                                                               
open-ended.  TCC  believes  there  should be  some  maximum  time                                                               
period within which  the forest plan must be reviewed  to keep it                                                               
up-to-date with  new management  approaches and  public concerns.                                                               
That change removes a time period  that is, perhaps, too short to                                                               
be reasonable but replaces it with no timeframe.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTT said  that TCC supports Senator  Lincoln's amendment. TCC                                                               
is  concerned about  removing the  Board of  Forestry review  and                                                               
public  hearing   process  prior   to  the  adoption   of  forest                                                               
management plans. He said TCC's  final concern is with Section 7;                                                               
high value  added wood  products are  finished products  but pulp                                                               
has  been added  to that  list. Pulp  is an  intermediate process                                                               
product. It  is more  finished than  wood chips but  it is  not a                                                               
finished product to  the degree the other items on  the list are.                                                               
He suggested some "wordsmithing" could  clean that section up. He                                                               
repeated  that  other  than  those  concerns,  TCC  supports  the                                                               
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  asked Mr.  Jahnke why the  requirement to  review the                                                               
forest management  plan at least  once every five years  is being                                                               
removed. He asked when a review would be considered necessary.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JAHNKE said  the  division looked  at  that requirement  and                                                               
realized the Tanana  Valley Forest Plan took five  to seven years                                                               
to complete so  a review every five years seemed  too frequent to                                                               
be  efficient. The  division felt  the drive  to change  a forest                                                               
management plan  should be triggered  by a significant  change in                                                               
condition  or  in  the  market  that  does  not  fit  within  the                                                               
timeframe of the existing plan.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DAVE  LACEY told  members  he  was  involved in  the  public                                                               
process on the Tanana basin  management plan and the state forest                                                               
for many  years. He is  concerned this legislation will  toss out                                                               
efforts made  by the public  to develop those plans.  He believes                                                               
the emphasis  on a single  purpose of timber management  is short                                                               
sighted. He is aware of  the state's immediate revenue needs, but                                                               
a long-term  outlook must be kept.  He said the state  must be as                                                               
conservative  as possible  in its  management  because of  future                                                               
unknowns. Cumulative impacts of multiple  uses must be taken into                                                               
consideration.  He   has  been   involved  in  the   tourism  and                                                               
recreation industries  for years. He  does not want to  see those                                                               
residents  who make  their living  from  those industries  pushed                                                               
aside for a single use emphasis.  He supports the buffer zones in                                                               
SB  88 to  protect  recreational and  commercial  fishing in  the                                                               
Interior.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. JAN  DAWE, Alaska Boreal  Forest Council, stated  support for                                                               
several  sections of  CSSB 149(RES),  especially those  that make                                                               
the process  less burdensome for  the operators to get  access to                                                               
timber  sales. Simplifying  the timber  sale schedules  will save                                                               
money. She  suggested including a  sunset clause for  portions of                                                               
the  management plan  that  have not  been  revised. The  Council                                                               
agrees  that requiring  a review  once  every five  years is  too                                                               
frequent  but would  like to  see language  included to  say that                                                               
portions of the management plan  would be reviewed. The Council's                                                               
main concern  with the  bill is changing  the primary  purpose of                                                               
state forests. She read an amendment suggested by the Council:                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The  primary  purpose  in the  establishment  of  state                                                                    
     forests  is forest  management  that  provides for  the                                                                    
     production,    utilization,   and    replenishment   of                                                                    
     commercial  timber   and  non-timber   resources  while                                                                    
     allowing  other beneficial  uses  of  public lands  and                                                                    
     resources.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. ERIC PYNE,  Alaska Forestry Products, said  the recently held                                                               
election in November  showed that the majority  of Alaskans favor                                                               
resource development. Changing the  emphasis of the state forests                                                               
to  timber  management will  go  a  long way  toward  encouraging                                                               
industry  to invest  in Fairbanks,  Delta,  Nenana, and  outlying                                                               
areas. Those  investments create jobs  and allow local  people to                                                               
create a lifestyle they enjoy.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAWE  explained to  members  that  the Council's  intent  in                                                               
requesting the  proposed amendment  is that all  extracted forest                                                               
products be given  equal weight. The rationale is  that there are                                                               
a lot of special  use areas in the state where  birch bark or sap                                                               
and other  products cannot  be extracted.  University researchers                                                               
have  said that  decades of  resource management  reports support                                                               
multiple   resource  management   rather  than   single  resource                                                               
management.  The   Council  is   also  working  on   an  economic                                                               
development project  with the  schools to  make birch  syrup. One                                                               
local person  plans to  go into  commercial production  next year                                                               
using about  2,000 trees. The  Council is trying to  look forward                                                               
to what  future resource development  might look like. It  is not                                                               
trying  to  distract from  timber  management.  She repeated  the                                                               
Council  wants the  primary purpose  of  the state  forest to  be                                                               
multiple use.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN announced that public testimony was closed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BEN STEVENS  removed his  objection to  the adoption  of                                                               
Amendment 1, therefore it was adopted.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BEN  STEVENS moved  CSSB  149(RES)  from committee  with                                                               
individual recommendations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON objected.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN stated that he sees  this legislation as an attempt to                                                               
get more timber  into the hands of value-added  processors in the                                                               
state.  He   supports  this  legislation  contingent   upon  that                                                               
happening; he  encouraged the Division  of Forestry to do  all it                                                               
can to  make that happen. He  said he is aware  of constitutional                                                               
limits  and the  Interstate  Commerce Clause,  which prevent  the                                                               
state  from banning  the  export  of logs.  He  said  he will  be                                                               
monitoring  this  legislation and  wants  to  be briefed  by  the                                                               
Division  on how  much of  this  timber is  used for  value-added                                                               
products.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The  motion to  move CSSB  149(RES) from  committee carried  with                                                               
Senators Stevens, Dyson, Seekins, Wagoner  and Ogan in favor, and                                                               
Senators Lincoln and Elton opposed.                                                                                             

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