Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
01/31/2022 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB84 | |
| SB133 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 84 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 133 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 133-REMOTE RECREATIONAL SITES; SALES; PERMITS
4:10:05 PM
CHAIR REVAK announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 133
"An Act relating to the sale or lease of state land for remote
recreational sites; relating to permits for remote recreational
sites; and providing for an effective date."
4:10:33 PM
At ease.
4:11:29 PM
CHAIR REVAK reconvened the meeting.
4:11:34 PM
LAURA BOOMERSHINE, Legislative Liaison, Department of Natural
Resources, Anchorage, Alaska, introduced Ms. Colles who gave an
overview of SB 133.
4:12:16 PM
CHRISTY COLLES, Operations Manager, Division of Mining, Land,
and Water, Department of Natural Resources, Anchorage, Alaska,
gave an overview of SB 133. Ms. Colles began the overview with
slide 2, What's in SB 133 Overview:
• Repeals existing RRCS program and reenacts the Remote
Recreational Sites (RRS) program
• Establishes the ability for individuals to purchase,
lease or permit RRS
MS. COLLES said that the biggest difference between the RRS
program and the Remote Recreational Cabin Site (RRCS) staking
program is that RRS allows an Alaskan to permit a site, purchase
a site, lease it for a term longer than previously allowed, and
remain in the lease without purchasing.
• Provides for Commissioner to identify areas where land
is properly classified and offer those lands for
staking of RRS
• Provides for Alaskans to nominate lands for inclusion
4:14:00 PM
MS. COLLES explained that an individual may nominate
unclassified lands. The department will review the nomination to
determine whether reclassification is necessary to allow for a
remote recreational staking opportunity.
• Identifies who is eligible to participate in the
program
MS. COLLES stated that this program is open to Alaskan residents
who:
- Can show residency in Alaska for one year, and
- Have not participated in the program in the last ten years. An
individual may participate in the program once every ten years.
• Establishes that a 10-acre parcel size may be staked
MS. COLLES clarified that an individual may stake less than 10
acres, but the maximum is 10 acres.
• Process for handling conflicting staked parcels
MS. COLLES stated that if multiple individuals stake the same
ground, an established conflict resolution process will resolve
staking disputes. The process determines who retains the staked
parcel and who should re-stake additional acreage.
• Directs the Commissioner to establish regulations to
implement the program
4:15:39 PM
MS. COLLES advanced to slide 3, What's in SB 133 - Leasing and
Sale:
• Establishes process for staking, leasing,
and/or purchasing a piece of state land
square4 Stake parcel, submit a sketch, and an application to
lease
MS. COLLES said that the lease application is the first step in
either a purchase or a long-term lease. First, an individual
must stake the parcel, then submit a sketch of the staked
property. The details for leasing and purchasing are below.
• Process for leasing a remote recreational site
square4 Initial 10-year leasing period
square4 Two additional 10-year lease renewal periods
square4 Restricts assignment of a lease
square4 Termination of lease for non-compliance
square4 Establishes timeframe for surveying and appraising
square4 Requirement for marking of parcel boundaries
MS. COLLES stated that an individual may lease up to 30 years.
The idea is to have a site for recreational purposes, not
monetary or profit-oriented ones. The lease may be assigned
through an estate or a will but not sold. Unpaid fees and
commercial business operations are examples of non-compliance
and cause for termination of the lease. Regulations would
establish the stipulations for compliance. The timeframe to
complete a site survey and appraisal is 24 months, but the
department could authorize additional time. Before completing
the survey, the lessee must mark the parcel boundaries outlined
in SB 133. Marked, clear boundaries will help future stakers
avoid overlapping parcels.
• Process for purchase of state land for RRS
square4 Sale price is fair market value
square4 Applicant must survey and appraise the site
MS. COLLES stated that a lessee may purchase the site at fair
market value. The same appraisal used to apply for the lease may
be reused to purchase the site; this option is available for 24
months. Once 24 months have elapsed, the division would require
a new appraisal. The staker is responsible for the cost of a
survey and appraisal.
4:18:52 PM
SENATOR KIEHL commented that individuals start with good
intentions but do not always get the parcel. He asked if the
department agrees that the most significant obstacle to the
success of remote staking programs is the cost of survey and
appraisal.
MS. COLLES agreed that the department had issues with previous
programs when the cost of the survey and appraisal was entirely
the applicant's responsibility. Currently, the RRS program is
large tract-based, meaning parcels in a given area are available
in bulk amounts with limited staking authorizations. The
department covers the actual cost of going out and doing the
survey and appraisal, but the stakers still bear the cost. She
acknowledged there is some concern about costs, but the hope is
that the survey and appraisal will be affordable with the larger
parcels.
4:21:00 PM
MS. COLLES continued with slide 4, What's in SB 133 Permits,
stating this is an entirely new approach from the past to remote
recreational staking sites. The department has not had permits
recently. The personal use cabin program was repealed, but the
department still has managed cabin permits on the books. SB 133
allows individuals that are not ready to purchase, to get an RRS
permit:
• Establishes process for permitting an RRS
• 25-year term
MS. COLLES compared the duration of the proposed 25-year RRS
permit term to the considerably shorter 5-year commercial permit
and six-year personal use cabin permit. The permit term for this
authorization is much longer.
• Revocable at will
MS. COLLES said that the RRS permit is revocable at will because
it is not a disposal. If necessary, for any reason, the option
to revoke the permit remains available to the state.
• May not be assigned or renewed
• May be terminated for any reason, including failure
to use the permitted land as required by the terms
of the permit
MS. COLLES explained that the department may terminate the
permit for a noncompliance issue, such as:
- nonpayment
- permit used for commercial purposes, in which case, the
permittee might need to switch to a commercial use permit.
• Permit holder may apply to lease or purchase the
permitted site
MS. COLLES stated that during the 25-year permit term, the
individual may apply to lease or purchase. The permittee might
have to go through the nomination process to reclassify the RRS,
which would require the commissioner's recommendation.
4:23:12 PM
CHAIR REVAK asked for more detail about "revocable at will.
MS. COLLES answered that all the permits are considered
revocable at will. She emphasized that revocations occur for
cause, not haphazardly. For example, if it were in the state's
best interest to utilize a permit for a large infrastructure or
access project, the state would consider the permit a revocable
interest. Conversely, a lease or sale would require the
agreement of the landowner.
MS. COLLES outlined the process to revoke a permit. The
department:
- notifies the individual,
- the department works with the individual, and
- the department looks for ways to work around the property.
She emphasized that permits are not, in no way, a disposal of
state interests.
CHAIR REVAK commented that the Department of Natural Resources
acts responsibly with its revocable at will decisions; however,
inholding issues exist with the state's federal partners.
4:25:12 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked how much land is transferred to Alaskans
annually under the current remote recreational cabin program.
MS. COLLES answered that since 2001, the state had 14 offerings
and 81 staking areas. She defined offerings as public
notification that land is available to stake. Of the 14
offerings, 807 parcels were sold, totaling 50,462 acres.
SENATOR STEVENS commented that in 22 years, 807 parcels are not
that many sales. He sought assurance that the data was correct.
MS. COLLES answered that is correct; the number of parcels sold
was 807. She noted that currently, 5 to 20 acres per parcel are
available for staking. She referenced slide 13 to show remote
recreational cabin site parcels offered in the past. She noted
that East Fork Pass had 16,350 acres with a maximum of 60
staking authorizations, so up to 1,200 acres (60 staking
authorizations multiplied by a 20-acre staking maximum) were
available for staking. The idea is to give an individual enough
space to retain the remote setting, in contrast to subdivision
sales which share lot lines.
SENATOR STEVENS calculated the sales average is about 20 parcels
[37 parcels] per year. He asked if the goal was to increase the
number of sales.
MS. COLLES answered yes. The goal is to identify areas and
constantly put out as much land as possible. The department
seeks areas that are desirable to purchasers. It takes time to
sort out issues, research area plans, work with communities, and
go through a best interest finding, which is a two-step
decision. This bill proposes to exempt the best-interest
finding, as required by AS 38.05.035, in lieu of maybe a less
extensive decision document. Public notice would continue to be
required but not at the current level, because it could delay
projects currently in development.
SENATOR STEVENS re-asked how many parcels and acres were sold in
the remote recreational cabin program since 2001.
MS. COLLES answered that 50,462 acres and 807 parcels were sold
since 2001. Slide 11, History of the Current Remote Recreational
Cabin Site Program, shows these figures.
4:29:21 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked about the average size of those RRCS
parcels.
MS. COLLES replied that she needed a moment to calculate the
average parcel size.
SENATOR KIEHL calculated that the average size of an RRCS parcel
is over 60 acres. He concluded that a problem exists with the
figures as the maximum parcel size in the RRCS program is
limited to 20 acres.
MS. COLLES agreed. She stated that she would check the figures.
CHAIR REVAK requested that Ms. Colles send corrected figures to
the committee.
SENATOR KIEHL noted that in 21 years, 807 parcels were sold. He
asked, of those 807 parcels, how many were staked.
MS. COLLES replied that she would get that information to the
committee.
4:30:40 PM
MS. COLLES advanced to slide 5, SB 133 Provides Multiple Ways
for Alaskans to Procure a Piece of Alaska. This slide summarizes
what SB 133 proposes to accomplish:
• The Department of Natural Resources (DNR) will
maintain a list of lands available for Remote
Recreational Sites (RRS)
MS. COLLES stated that the RRS available lands list would
include vacant, unappropriated, and unreserved (VUU) land. The
inclusion of VUU lands will result in a bigger area.
• The State will identify areas where land is properly
classified for settlement and may be staked for RRS
• Individuals can nominate open state land not included
in the annual state offering for RRS
MS. COLLES stated that Alaskans may nominate areas not properly
classified for inclusion in the program. The nomination entitles
an individual right of priority to the parcel. The individual
must stake the parcel within 90 days and submit a lease
application with an attached sketch to retain first right. If
the individual fails to fulfill the bill's requirements, the
commissioner will include the land with the commissioner's
regularly scheduled annual offerings.
4:31:49 PM
MS. COLLES pointed out that SB 133 proposes the following three-
tier system to increase an individual's ability to procure a
site.
• Multiple ways to procure a site:
square4 Purchase
MS. COLLES explained that an individual may purchase a site.
However, if the fair market value is not affordable, an
individual may opt to remain in a lease. The option to purchase
remains open for the term of the lease.
square4 Lease
MS. COLLES explained that an individual could lease longer. The
lessee can enjoy the land well beyond the period of time it took
to prove up with a survey and appraisal.
square4 Permit
4:32:32 PM
SENATOR KIEHL commented that the map on slide 6 highlights an
area of Douglas Island popular with deer hunters, berry pickers,
and snowmobilers. He asked how the land nomination would work
without a best interest finding, whether the department
decisions were appealable, and how a community would weigh in on
a nomination.
MS. COLLES answered that the constitution requires public
notice. AS 38.05.035 defines the process for disposals through a
written finding. The department will continue to conduct public
notice of its actions. The commissioner will still have to study
the areas on the Statewide VUU Map, slide 6. The commissioner
will be required to verify the land is classified correctly and
provide public notice of the nomination and intent to lease
those lands to eligible Alaskans. There will still be a process,
but it will not be the same process the department currently
uses for its land sales program.
SENATOR KIEHL commented that a best interest finding could be
challenged all the way to court. He asked if this process would
be subject to the same sort of appeal right.
MS. COLLES answered any department decision is appealable. Even
permit decisions, which do not dispose of state interests, are
appealable. She stated that unless she is missing something, any
department decision is appealable, and she expressed her belief
that the Department of Law would agree.
4:35:20 PM
CHAIR REVAK stated that permits are revocable at will. He
expressed his belief that the department wants to avoid
controversial situations.
MS. COLLES stated one positive of the permit option is that
permits are revocable. So, if the department issued a permit in
error, the department has the authority to revoke it. It is more
difficult to revoke a lease. The scenario is completely
different for a sale which is more difficult to revoke. A court
ruling can overturn a department's decision. Most of the time,
an appeal stays the decision, so the department suspends action
until the administrative process is complete.
4:36:31 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked whether a transition from permit to lease is
also publicly noticed and subject to a decisional document.
MS. COLLES answered that the department follows the process
outlined in the lease. Nominated land that is not properly
classified must go through a classification process. Whether or
not a permit to lease transaction is publicly noticed or subject
to a decisional document would be decided on a cases-by-case
basis. Determining factors would include the location of the
permit, how it is classified, and whether the commissioner's
identified lands include the permitted site.
CHAIR REVAK asked Senator Kiehl if he had a follow-up question.
SENATOR KIEHL said that the Department of Law might be able to
provide details and information on the standards that apply to
public notice and decisional documents when a parcel transitions
from a permit to a lease.
4:37:54 PM
MS. COLLES advanced to slide 6, Statewide VUU Map. She stated
that approximately 47,000,000 acres of state land are considered
VUU and could be part of this program.
4:38:28 PM
CHAIR REVAK requested a detailed map.
MS. COLLES answered that the department is conserving resources
until the bill advances further in the legislative process to
create a detailed map. She stated that, in the meantime, a
better map will be piecemealed together to provide more clarity.
4:39:44 PM
CHAIR REVAK held SB 133 in committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| DB 84 DOR Response Letter 1.31.2022.msg |
SRES 1/31/2022 3:30:00 PM |
|
| SB 84 Fiscal Note DHSS 1.28.2022.pdf |
SRES 1/31/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 84 |
| SB 84 Department of Revenue Presentation 1.31.2022.pdf |
SRES 1/31/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 84 |
| SB 84 Fiscal Note DNR 1.28.2022.pdf |
SRES 1/31/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 84 |
| SB 84 Fiscal Note DoR 1.28.2022.pdf |
SRES 1/31/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 84 |
| SB 84 Sectional Analysis 1.31.2022.pdf |
SRES 1/31/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 84 |
| SB 133 DNR Presentation 1.31.22.pdf |
SRES 1/31/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 133 |