Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
05/03/2007 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB136 | |
| HB170 | |
| SB117 | |
| SB94 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 94 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 170 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 117 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 99 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 136 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 117-WORKERS' COMP: DISEASE PRESUMPTION
1:45:01 PM
CHAIR ELLIS announced SB 117 to be up for consideration. He
asked Mr. Moderow to review the subject and take the committee
through the proposed committee substitute.
ANDY MODEROW, staff to Senator French, commented on SB 117 for
the sponsor. He explained that this bill is about presumptive
disability for certain classes of first responders. It would
create a presumption that certain diseases that are found more
often in firefighters are work-related. The proposed CS would
make it very clear that the employer would not have to cover the
cost of the qualifying medical exam. However, it does provide an
option for an individual who is not provided with a medical exam
to get it on his own. The presumption would not apply without
this baseline exam.
1:46:55 PM
ROD HARRIS, Alaska Professional Firefighters Association, said
they supported SB 117. However, he wanted them to remember that
every engineering device that has been invented to improve the
health of firefighters has been implemented, but until something
is invented that will completely encapsulate a firefighter
protecting them from exposure to the significant carcinogens in
smoke, they will be constantly exposed to them.
1:49:02 PM
MIKE DAVIDSON, Alaska Professional Firefighters' Association,
supported SB 117. He stated, "It provides a safety net of
protections that currently doesn't exist." The nature of the
firefighter's job is that it is unpredictable and they often
don't know until after a situation occurs that there were health
impacts associated with it. That lack of knowledge makes it very
difficult to track these exposures even though they know they
occur. Every precaution is taken to avoid exposures.
He said this legislation has the potential to fiscally impact
employers, but their goal is to have fewer people getting sick
to the point that no one gets sick at all and the same illnesses
are already covered currently. However, most of these diseases
are not only serious, but are also terminal events resulting in
huge fiscal impacts that are often borne by the very person who
is in the worst position to deal with it, the sick person and
his family. Firefighters put their lives on the line and risk
their families to protect the citizens of Alaska. "We owe it to
them to provide them these important protections in their time
of greatest need."
MR. DAVIDSON also added that it's very difficult to file under
the current Workers' Compensation system, because a direct link
to exposure is hard to establish. On the other hand, medical
evidence demonstrates that the very limited scope of diseases
they have named are very likely to be associated with being a
firefighter. These illnesses are acquired in rates hundreds of
times higher than the average populace. In the case of cancers
and contagious diseases, frequently no other link can be drawn
to a source of the disease other than the firefighting
occupation.
1:53:10 PM
MR. DAVIDSON said he didn't want to minimize the possibility of
fiscal impacts, but many of the state's large employers,
including the state itself, already conduct physicals that would
meet the requirements to establish a baseline for these
employees. The physical exam requirement is not there as a
financial burden for employers; it's there for their protection
and was placed in there to protect employers from frivolous
claims or claims that aren't justified for diseases that had
been acquired prior to coming to that employer. He argued that
employers who aren't providing the physicals for their employees
are being irresponsible to the constituents they represent
because they have no baseline to track if later on these
employees do become sick.
1:54:22 PM
JEFF BRIGGS, Alaska Professional Firefighters' Association, said
according to the Alaska Department of Public Safety (DPS), there
are 1,000 full-time paid firefighters in the State of Alaska.
The opponents of SB 117 estimate the number affected by this
bill to be in the neighborhood of 9,250. The State Fire
Marshall's office has emailed him that there are 4,600
structural firefighters registered in the State of Alaska. The
opponents also say the physicals will cost up to $12 million,
which is not the case, because physicals are not mandatory in
the bill. In Anchorage, the pre-qualifying hiring medical exam
costs $450 to $500 per individual.
MR. BRIGGS said he couldn't tell them how scary it is to be
crawling around in a structural fire and realize afterwards that
it was a meth lab, one of the worst chemical fires around. He
said that all structural fires have tens of thousands of
chemicals and there's no telling what they do when they mix
together.
In 2002 in the Moody v. Delta Western Supreme Court decision,
Justice Mathews stated:
Due to what is known as the fireman's rule, both
firefighters and police officers are paid to confront
crises and allied dangers by un-circumspect citizenry
- a circumstance that serves to distinguish
firefighters and police from most other public
employees.... The public pays for emergency responses
of public safety officials in the form of salaries and
enhanced benefits.
1:56:58 PM
He said that American Cancer statistics indicate that 5 out of
10 men in this room will be diagnosed with some sort of cancer
in their lifetime if they live to be 90 years old. Approximately
3 in 10 will contract the kind of cancers listed in SB 117. He
asked, "How many of those three contracted these cancers while
carrying out the course of their occupation? How many contracted
th
this cancer before their 55 birthday? Very few."
SENATOR BUNDE asked if as a public employee he is covered by
health insurance.
MR. BRIGGS replied yes.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if this bill passed, would it give him un-
rebuttable coverage under workers' compensation.
MR. BRIGGS replied that this is not un-rebuttable language.
Nothing guarantees this coverage. If the employer or
the Workers' Comp Board feels there is evidence to
disprove the claim, then they have all the power in
the world to go ahead and do so.
He said there would probably be an issue with filing through a
person's personal health insurance for something that was caused
on the job.
SENATOR FRENCH, sponsor of SB 117, explained that the main
concern in prior hearings was the cost of implementing the idea
and the CS addresses that by making the medical exam be borne by
the firefighter himself.
CHAIR ELLIS asked if there was further discussion of the
committee substitute, version E.
1:59:38 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked Senator French if new language was on page
3, subsection (e) and to explain what it means.
SENATOR FRENCH replied that the only change in the CS is on page
3, subsection (e). It essentially says that the provisions of
the bill call for a medical examination, but don't require a
municipality or other employer of firefighters to actually have
to provide that qualifying medical examination (line 27). So it
imposes no burden at all upon an employer or a municipality. The
cost will be borne by the firefighter if at all or if the
municipality chooses to do so.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if this is presented as an opt-out feature
for the municipalities.
SENATOR FRENCH replied yes. SB 117 is not an unfunded mandate.
CHAIR ELLIS said this was a big bone of contention with the
original bill.
SENATOR BUNDE said he understands there is no cost to the
municipality for the medical examination, but he thought there
would, however, be a cost to the Workers' Compensation rates.
SENATOR FRENCH displayed California statistics that indicated
presumption doesn't cause a large rise in rates. In fact, they
returned to historical norms after presumption was adopted in
1999.
SENATOR BUNDE noted that it didn't reduce the Workers'
Compensation rates either.
2:02:28 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked about a letter from Millie Martin, member
of the Kenai Borough Assembly, who takes a strong opposing
position. Her concern is that all the diseases in SB 117 are
chronic and are often caused either by genetics or lifestyle
choices. He asked if a chronic smoker would be covered under
Workers' Compensation if this passed.
SENATOR FRENCH replied probably not. If the fact of a person's
smoking is well-known in the community, established through
sales, personal observations or whatever, they are not going to
be able to make a workers' compensation claim for lung cancer.
SENATOR STEVENS went back to the statement that all of the
diseases are chronic and are often caused by genetics and
lifestyle choices and asked if that is a correct statement.
SENATOR FRENCH replied that he is not a doctor and couldn't say.
2:04:42 PM
WALLY BAIRD, Bethel City Manager, said he had concerns with SB
117 because Bethel is self-insured and has a tight budget. He
also thought that life style choices and genetics could account
for some of the diseases. A lot of people have contracted
prostate cancer and have never entered a building with hazardous
materials.
He was also concerned that this would make insurance rates go up
because the costs would be spread out across the same
population. The assumption is that the Workers' Compensation
Program is not adequate or somehow broken, but he thinks it does
a very good job.
2:09:46 PM
SENATOR BUNDE asked if he provides health insurance benefits to
his firefighters that cover the illnesses in this bill.
MR. BAIRD replied yes.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if he is having problems recruiting
firefighters.
MR. BAIRD replied yes.
SENATOR FRENCH also pointed out that health insurance doesn't
cover lost wages.
2:10:48 PM
SENATOR STEVENS moved to adopt CSSB 117(L&C), version E. There
were no objections and it was so ordered.
2:11:22 PM
JOHN CYR, Executive Director, Public Safety Employees
Association, supported SB 117. He said it's only too clear with
the rising number of meth labs and the different chemicals that
critically affect long-term health that a bill like this is
essential.
2:12:24 PM
JOHN GRUMMET, President-elect, Alaska Independent Agents and
Insurance Brokers, said it would be very hard for employers to
controvert claims and the bill's language is unusually broad. He
asked why it wouldn't include nurses and doctors. He didn't have
any specific suggestions.
2:13:33 PM
DOMINIC LEZANO, President, Fairbanks Firefighters' Association,
said that lost wages are provided under Workers' Compensation,
but it's always asked what incident caused the exposure and
that's the reason for the bill. That exact date of exposure is
often not known. He related a story of a Fairbanks firefighter
who contracted lung cancer. He has been a firefighter for over
30 years and didn't smoke. When the idea of Workers'
Compensation came up, he was asked for the date the exposure
occurred and for the doctor to back it up. It's very difficult
when you're going through the chemotherapy to have to worry
about going through Workers' Compensation hearings. His health
insurance company did what it could, but there are large out-of-
pocket costs associated with that and now he's almost out of
sick leave. The intent of the bill is to protect individuals
like this. If you're a smoker, you're not covered under this
presumption.
2:16:36 PM
CHAIR ELLIS said he thought they had made progress on this
issue, but the committee was missing a couple of members and it
deserved their input. So he held SB 117 for a future meeting.
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