Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/19/1999 01:38 PM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
           SB 112-POSTSECONDARY CLASS FOR HIGH SCHOOL                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN MILLER brought up SB 112 and invited Senator Elton to                                                                  
present it.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 439                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON explained the bill would allow high school students                                                               
and their families new choices and new academic opportunities at no                                                             
cost to the family or the student.  Eleventh and twelfth grade                                                                  
students would receive dual credit for courses that are taken at                                                                
publicly-funded colleges and vocational schools, with tuition fees                                                              
paid by the school district in which the student is enrolled.                                                                   
Major elements of the bill were lifted straight out of the                                                                      
Washington State program.  Many Alaska school districts already                                                                 
have contractual agreements with the University of Alaska to                                                                    
provide dual credit for courses.  The difference between those                                                                  
individual agreements with the districts and the University is that                                                             
the student, or student's family, is responsible for the cost of                                                                
the tuition and fees while this bill provides that the school                                                                   
district would cover those costs.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Benefits of SB 112 include extended course offerings for students,                                                              
especially gifted students and those who are more comfortable in                                                                
the vocational courses. The University provides programs that many                                                              
districts don't have, and an alternative for students who feel they                                                             
don't fit in at the high school level.  The Washington experience                                                               
has shown that teens who are alienated from high school may do                                                                  
better in a college atmosphere, and sometimes they do dramatically                                                              
better.  It provides advanced college or vocational training for                                                                
students who want to go to work right after high school graduation,                                                             
and gives them better preparation for a job. In many states with                                                                
this program, the students continue with the vocational or                                                                      
university system that they experienced as high school students.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Under this bill, only students with a GPA of at least 2.25 are                                                                  
eligible for the program.  This is a policy issue that SENATOR                                                                  
ELTON said he would discuss later.  A student is responsible for                                                                
applying to the college or vocational school, and deciding the                                                                  
courses to take.  If the student is taking a full load at the high                                                              
school, the school district isn't required to pay for the                                                                       
additional college-level courses. Students taking college courses                                                               
are eligible for all the high school extra-curricular activities.                                                               
If the student successfully completes a college course, he or she                                                               
receives college credit and high school credit, with the high                                                                   
school determining how those college credits apply to the mandated                                                              
curriculum and electives at the high school level.  The high school                                                             
pays the cost of tuition and lab fees, and the student pays for                                                                 
books and supplies.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The most important principle of the bill is that it expands choices                                                             
for students and their parents, and makes choices available to a                                                                
fairly broad group, not just those heading off to Stanford or                                                                   
Harvard or M.I.T. SENATOR ELTON said he picked the 2.25 GPA because                                                             
he did not want to limit the program only to those very successful                                                              
high school students; he wanted to extend it to others who may not                                                              
maintain a 3.0 or 3.5 GPA, but who want to take vocational courses                                                              
such as diesel mechanics or computer classes.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 487                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN MILLER commented that both his daughters were in honors                                                                
English in high school, and he could see them going into a college                                                              
English class, and how this proposal would work at all different                                                                
student levels.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON responded that it does.  If this program had been                                                                 
available for the Chairman's daughters, the advantages would be                                                                 
that he would not have paid for the college courses and those                                                                   
credits would be fully applied toward a college degree, and also                                                                
transferable.  With up to two years of college completed, the cost                                                              
of college for the family would be considerably lower.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART WINEBERG, on-line, stated this legislation goes back to                                                             
the late 1970s when discussions were held relating to high school                                                               
seniors with "senioritis."  He was involved in programs such as                                                                 
this in New York and New Jersey.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He recommended changing the GPA to at least a 3.0, because even                                                                 
though some students would be excluded, students need to                                                                        
demonstrate they're ready for college-level courses.  He advised                                                                
adding approval of the high school principal or a designee, such as                                                             
a counselor, to ensure it's an appropriate program for the student.                                                             
A student who has not completed a school district's requirements                                                                
should not be allowed to participate, and the student should                                                                    
already have passed the high school qualifying exam.  He suggested                                                              
a compromise on tuition fees.  University officials have indicated                                                              
interest in reducing the tuition fee for high school students.  The                                                             
impact on a school district's entire funding should be examined.                                                                
MR. WINEBERG suggested a different tuition structure if the                                                                     
student's reason for taking the college level course may be for                                                                 
lifelong learning or because the course is not offered in his                                                                   
regular school.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He encouraged the legislature to consider this bill with                                                                        
modifications.  Fairbanks already has this program and students                                                                 
receive dual credit.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARGO WARING, Douglas resident and parent, spoke in support of                                                              
SB 112. Senator Elton's bill would provide an opportunity available                                                             
in about 21 states to Alaskan students.  It is cost-effective and                                                               
makes a lot of sense in terms of what students need for their own                                                               
education.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SB 112 would meet the educational needs of students that can't be                                                               
met at local high schools because student needs are individual and                                                              
unique.  She said that it isn't reasonable, for example, to have a                                                              
class in advanced studio art or music,  mechanics or advanced                                                                   
mathematics.  In some communities there is an option for students                                                               
because those classes are being taught nearby.  For students on an                                                              
academic track who intend to go to college, it provides an                                                                      
opportunity to acquire skills they may not have acquired in high                                                                
school and to meet the challenges of college on a firmer footing.                                                               
It's equally important for students who don't plan on college to                                                                
acquire more job-related skills and expand in the area of their own                                                             
gifts.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Juneau has been working on a similar effort for the past nine                                                                   
months that is supported by the district, the teachers, parents,                                                                
and the union.  She encouraged the committee's support of the bill.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 573                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. ROBERT SEWELL, Academic Advisor at University of Alaska                                                                     
Southeast, stated the University is wildly enthusiastic about the                                                               
concept of Senator Elton's bill. More states every year are doing                                                               
something like this, and many offer full tuition coverage,                                                                      
including fees and books, and dual enrollment with academic                                                                     
advising.  Juneau high school students have taken university                                                                    
classes at their own election, yet the proposed legislation  would                                                              
offer more of a programmatic approach to these youngsters' needs.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-19, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 589                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEWELL continued.  He is the parent of a highly able middle                                                                 
school student who at age 12 took a college class in writing last                                                               
summer.  She got an A- and has benefitted from college instruction                                                              
while not yet in high school.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He recommended striking 11th and 12th grades to include "secondary                                                              
school" in its place because a number of freshmen and sophomores                                                                
could benefit from this.  The University is concerned about the                                                                 
2.25 GPA and suggests that it be 3.0, to ensure that students are                                                               
prepared to benefit from college-level instruction.  Vocationally-                                                              
oriented and academically-able students could both benefit.  UA is                                                              
not enthused about the idea of a reimbursement cost-shift with the                                                              
University sharing the expense.  It suggests that the payer of high                                                             
school students taking college courses be charged the same charge                                                               
as the sponsor of other students, such as the Division of                                                                       
Vocational Rehab and Job Training Partnership Act.  The University                                                              
views these students as no different in a number of respects than                                                               
other students who take advantage of its services.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The University has been working locally for six months with the                                                                 
district on the "College Connection."  The chancellor and the                                                                   
superintendent are both enthusiastic about the joint arrangement                                                                
whereby full payment from the district for tuition fees and books                                                               
for dual credit.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 560                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DARRYL HARGRAVES, representing the Alaska Council of School                                                                 
Administrators, expressed their hearty support for SB 112. School                                                               
districts have had programs like this one for a long time.  The                                                                 
Community College Act of 1962 set it up in this state so that                                                                   
school districts and the University worked cooperatively to provide                                                             
programs at the local level through the community colleges.                                                                     
Students participated and accrued credit that the University put                                                                
into "escrow accounts" and held until the student enrolled at the                                                               
University and the credit was activated. It counted toward                                                                      
secondary school graduation in the meantime.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARGRAVES questioned the language on page 3, line 3 "a district                                                             
may not make payments for a course from which a student withdraws                                                               
during the first fourteen days of the quarter or semester or a                                                                  
course taken by a student who is a full-time secondary school                                                                   
student."  He asked if that is contradictory.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON replied no, it says the district doesn't pay if the                                                               
student withdraws during the first two weeks, and the district                                                                  
doesn't pay if the student is also a full-time high school student,                                                             
under the assumption that foundation formula dollars attached to                                                                
that student shouldn't be diminished at the secondary school.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARGRAVES stated that full-time secondary students sometimes                                                                
take an additional course at the University, which is paid for by                                                               
the school district because the school doesn't provide it.  He                                                                  
asked if a student had one class at the University, wouldn't it                                                                 
make them a full-time secondary student in order to participate in                                                              
the foundation program?                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON responded if the student was taking the full high                                                                 
school load and also taking one University course, the student -                                                                
not the district - would pay for those credits.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARGRAVES still felt the language doesn't quite say that to                                                                 
him. He also recommended a reduced tuition arrangement with the                                                                 
University, because formulas become one more hassle in a school                                                                 
district business office with few personnel.  He preferred the                                                                  
system used in the past whereby the university branch would send                                                                
over an invoice for the amount owed for that semester.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Remnants of the 1962 Act remain with districts and community                                                                    
colleges sharing some type of a cooperative agreement; for example,                                                             
a school district will be paying the cost of a professor. MR.                                                                   
HARGRAVES stated he hoped this bill would not preclude those types                                                              
of agreements that are in place, and would allow them to flourish                                                               
and continue on.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON replied this bill would not preclude any other                                                                    
agreement, and it doesn't preclude reduced tuition negotiated with                                                              
a school district and the University.  He tried very hard not to do                                                             
that because innovative arrangements are already taking place.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARGRAVES concluded, "With those clarifications and if there is                                                             
no grounds or possibility that the University gets too greedy with                                                              
this concept, we would heartily endorse the bill."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 498                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MIKE BRADNER spoke as a parent of a high school sophomore who                                                               
attended a university to continue in a language program.  He told                                                               
the committee it worked very well for his daughter, and he felt                                                                 
this legislation offers opportunities in local school districts                                                                 
where courses are offered at the wrong time, especially language                                                                
courses such as Russian or Japanese.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He expressed hesitancy about inserting a GPA because the University                                                             
would review and reject students, while some may find they do well                                                              
in a different environment.  Some of the University programs that                                                               
are technical or vocational/technical don't attract many students                                                               
because they don't think of the University in terms of those                                                                    
particular programs.  In Anchorage, to attend the Martin Luther                                                                 
King Career Center, you have to allocate a 3-hour time block, and                                                               
usually students can't find the time to do that.   A lot of the                                                                 
courses students would take are given at off-hour times, taught by                                                              
adjunct professors with high school experience.  He recommended                                                                 
University technical and vocational courses be offered in the                                                                   
evenings as a means of drawing secondary students into those                                                                    
programs.  High school students feel that it looks good on their                                                                
resume when they apply to a university to show they earned college                                                              
credit as a high school student.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE JOHNSON said the State Board of Education fully supports                                                              
the expansion of educational opportunities for students which this                                                              
bill would provide. University and district partnerships have                                                                   
already taken place, and he appreciated Senator Elton's comment                                                                 
that those long-standing agreements would be honored. Rural                                                                     
students also would benefit from creative uses of this type of                                                                  
partnership.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN MILLER expressed support for the concept of Senator                                                                    
Elton's bill but he said it needs more work.  HESS would not meet                                                               
on Wednesday because the budget will be on the Floor.  The                                                                      
following Monday, he tentatively scheduled confirmation hearings                                                                
for the Board of Regents and Board of Education.  His intent would                                                              
be to take up SB 112 and SB 117 again after those confirmations.                                                                
He would like to move SB 112 after some changes are drafted.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 442                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON offered to work with Chairman Miller's staff on a CS                                                              
to find a way to waive the GPA, and provide a waiver for 9th and                                                                
10th grade students.  He made clear that it would not preclude any                                                              
existing agreements between school districts and postsecondary                                                                  
facilities.  It could mean that some existing agreements that don't                                                             
provide for the school districts to pay would need to be changed.                                                               

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