Legislature(2009 - 2010)BUTROVICH 205
03/27/2009 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB54 | |
| SJR16 | |
| HCR2|| HCR3|| HCR4|| HCR5 | |
| SB71 | |
| SB108 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 108 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SJR 13 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HCR 2 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HCR 3 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HCR 4 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HCR 5 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 71 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | SB 54 | ||
| = | SJR 16 | ||
SB 108-STAMPEDE STATE RECREATION AREA
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI announced the consideration of SB 108.
SENATOR JOE THOMAS, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of SB 108
read the following:
SB 108 will preserve the traditional uses of this area
by creating the Stampede Recreation Area within the
stampede corridor. Several years ago former Governor
Murkowski proposed to build a road through this area.
The planned road was vehemently opposed by borough
residents as well as the recreational and traditional
user groups who had an interest in keeping things the
way they are.
In an effort to preserve the area for use by residents
and visitors, the Denali Borough Assembly passed a
resolution calling on the Alaska Legislature to
designate the corridor as the Stampede State
Recreation Area with a strong emphasis on self
determination by the residents and users of the area.
Current use of the area includes off road and all
terrain vehicle use, watercraft use, snow machining,
horseback riding, hiking, bicycling, dog sledding,
cross country skiing, ski journeying, camping,
hunting, fishing, wildlife viewing, and photography.
All these activities would be protected and preserved
under this proposed legislation. Recreational users of
the area come from the Denali Borough, Fairbanks,
MatSu, and Anchorage. Tourist and adventurers travel
to the area from across the globe. The area supports
several tourism related businesses including several
lodges and road touring companies that rent all
terrain vehicles for use on the more primitive
sections of the trail.
The bill is supported by the Denali Borough Assembly,
the Denali Chamber of Commerce, the…neighborhood
associated with homes located along the Stampede Road,
and the Denali Citizens Council. Additionally, my
staff and I have hosted several constituent meetings
on the proposed legislation in Fairbanks and the
Denali Borough. By and large, the proposed area is
supported by local residents and trail users. The main
impetus behind the legislation is to protect the area
for continued traditional use.
4:28:30 PM
SENATOR FRENCH noted that the area is quite large.
JOE HARDENBROOK, Staff, to Senator Joe Thomas, said the proposed
recreation area is roughly ten miles north to south and 35-40
miles east to west.
MR. HARDENBROOK noted that there is a draft committee substitute
(CS) that makes a technical correction. The original bill
incorrectly included reference to Sec. 41.21.407 and the draft
CS corrects the reference to Sec. 41.21.405.
DAVE TALIRICO, Mayor, Denali Borough, thanked Senator Thomas and
said that the borough assembly supports SB 108. The area is
heavily used by local and distant residents year round.
4:31:39 PM
SUSAN BRAWN, representing herself, said she owns land on the
Savage River in the proposed recreation area. She supports SB
108 because it will let people use the land as they have for the
past 30 years. The constituent meetings showed there is
tremendous support for this from the community. People want
traditional uses to be recognized as important. That is why they
live in Alaska.
4:33:05 PM
BROOKS LUDWIG, Superintendent, Northern Area, Division of Parks
& Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural Resources (DNR),
Fairbanks, said he's been involved in a grassroots effort. There
is a lot of public support for the area and traditional uses. He
is committed to involving locals in the public process so that
the recreation area meets their demands.
STEWART CUBLEY, landowner, said he is a potential inholder
within the proposed recreation area. He supports SB 108 as an
important step in preserving traditional uses. In his 30-year
residency he has traveled the area by dog team, skis, snow
machine, and helicopter. It is best for the land and the
inhabitants to pass this bill.
4:35:05 PM
JULIA POTTER, representing herself, said she is a resident of
the Denali Borough. She volunteers in the community and is
employed by the Denali Citizens Council. As a resident, she
wants her way of life protected. Part of that is having access
the Stampede area for recreation. She uses the area for a wide
variety of recreational activities and she knows that SB 108
will support those traditional uses. She noted that the Denali
Chamber of Commerce also supports the legislation. Several
members own tourism services and it's well known that the Denali
Borough depends on tourism. Creating the Stampede State
Recreation Area will allow visitors to experience the Alaska way
of life while supporting the economy of the borough. The Parks
Highway Community Partnership recognizes the importance of
creating the proposed recreation area. It will stimulate the
local economy. The Denali Citizens Council initiated an online
petition asking members and local citizens to show support for
SB 108. To date they have received 110 signatures.
4:38:09 PM
HANNAH RAGLAND, representing herself, said she supports SB 108.
She owns 13 dogs and regularly uses the proposed recreation area
both with her dogs and without on a year round basis. The
overwhelming sentiment in the neighborhood is to see the area
unchanged, which means that the land needs to be managed
responsibly. She asked that the state consider including Eight
Mile Lake in future legislation. It is a main access point and
would make management easier for the state. She would like to
see the state manage use in the area and she would also like the
community to be involved in the process.
4:41:11 PM
CHARLIE LOEB, representing himself, said he owns property
adjacent to the proposed recreation area and he uses the area
for a wide variety of activities. He is extremely supportive of
the legislation because it will protect existing uses. Interest
in the area is growing and management is needed. A recreational
area designation will provide the opportunity to develop a
management plan that will accommodate this increased use. The
area has the potential to be a real asset to the state because
of its proximity to Denali National Park and the scenic byway,
but it will only be realized with good management. He encouraged
the committee to amend the bill to including the Eight Mile Lake
area because it is the gateway to the recreation area. He
reiterated his support for SB 108.
4:45:20 PM
MARY SIROKI, Legislative Liaison, Department of Transportation
and Public Facilities (DOTPF), Juneau, said the administration
believes it is in the best interest of the state to reserve a
transportation and utility corridor through the proposed
recreation area. In 1998 the Legislature passed legislation
relating to rights-of-way for RS 2477 trails reserving, among
other areas, the Stampede Trail. Although there are no specific
plans for a road or utility now or in the near future, it makes
sense to reserve the option for future generations. Doing so
should not impact how the recreation area is managed.
DOTPF issues permits for activities and rights-of-way as
standard practice and will work with DNR to find the best
locations for facilities that may be constructed including:
outhouses, campgrounds, benches, and pullouts. DOTPF would do
the same for a private entity upon request from DNR. If in the
future a road is constructed, DOTPF will avoid those
improvements or it will move them.
MS. SIROKY said it's good to remember that reservation of a
transportation and utility right-of-way does not eliminate
DOTPF's responsibility to work with a community to determine
what is in the best interest of that community and neighboring
communities. DOTPF respects that some in the Denali Borough do
not want a Stampede Road, and wants it understood that this is
not a backdoor attempt to build a road.
4:48:10 PM
SENATOR FRENCH asked if SB 108 reserves a right-of-way through
the proposed recreation area.
MS. SIROKI said no.
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if she has an amendment to accomplish
that goal.
MS. SIROKI said she has some language requesting 500 feet on
either side of the center line of the RS 2477 trail. That will
provide room to put a road where it makes most sense. "So we can
straighten out the trail where it makes sense to straighten out
the trail or we can avoid wetlands or historic areas." It
doesn't mean 1,000 feet are needed once a road is constructed,
or should it be constructed.
4:49:23 PM
SENATOR FRENCH said the last time the road idea came up he
challenged the commissioner of DOTPF to look at it, "and we
did." That experience showed him the deep opposition to that
idea from the community and the extraordinary costs the state
would incur if it decided to build a road. He said he doesn't
know how serious the committee is in granting the department a
1,000-foot wide easement. He observed that it's not quite a
quarter of a mile, but it's close.
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI said it is probably enough for an 8-lane
highway.
SENATOR HUGGINS said with traditional trails and rights-of-way,
it exists whether it is designated or not.
4:50:47 PM
MS. SIROKI said there is what's called the 4-F section in
federal legislation that requires DOTPF to achieve a very high
bar should federal dollars be used for any road. Without the
reservation of a right-of-way it would be very difficult to put
in a road. It is important to realize that DOTPF is asking for a
reservation for planning purposes down the line. "We recognize
that currently there is no desire to put a road in, but we're
reserving it for the future and for utilities…. We don't know
that 30 or 40 years from now it won't make sense to make a loop
come through Denali Park." That is certainly not part of
anyone's plan now, but DOTPF doesn't want to preclude it.
SENATOR FRENCH said the suggestion that someday there may be a
loop is not outlandish. However, this has been a most remarkable
hearing given the one-sided nature of the testimony. There are
many tourism people who focus on this part of the world, and he
expected to see diverse views with people asking not to lock up
more of Alaska. "I didn't hear a single person ask for that."
That speaks volumes about what the community wants.
4:52:54 PM
MS. SIROKI said she believes that communities did speak about
access, and DOTPF's proposal doesn't prohibit citizens from
having the traditional access they want.
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked the sponsor to comment on the
administration's proposal.
SENATOR THOMAS said it is a rather wide right-of-way, and it has
been opposed. Over time there may be some need for the right-of-
way, but this bill doesn't preclude that. He is willing to talk
to the administration about its needs, but the public is not in
favor of what DOTPF is proposing.
SENATOR FRENCH suggested the sponsor ask legislative legal if
this bill will preclude a road forever more.
MR. HARDENBROOK directed attention to a map showing the Stampede
Road and Trail and Eight Mile Lake, which is the extent of a
passable road by standard car. The Department of Natural
Resources (DNR) said the purpose of an established recreation
area is to maintain recreational access and use, as determined
by the commissioner. After the creation of the recreation area,
the commissioner of DNR would determine whether a road would fit
with the stated purpose of the designated area.
4:56:50 PM
JAMES KING, Director, Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR) said Mr. Hardenbrook
explained it correctly. A state recreation area designation
doesn't preclude a road; the important thing is that there would
be a planning process to come up with a management plan. If the
community and Alaskans and the park all said it would make sense
to build a loop road through the national park that comes out
through the Stampede Recreation Area it would be an allowable
use. If the road is for a recreational or a transportation
purpose, it can be allowed. SB 108 will not preclude that. Joe
HARDENBROOK was right in saying it is a decision that a
commissioner can make. The Division of Parks and Outdoor
Recreation doesn't see a road as a necessarily bad thing, and it
could be a legitimate use if the public wants it.
4:58:28 PM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he is saying that the state doesn't
need to reserve a right-of-way at this point.
MR. KING said, "Creating the recreation area does not preclude a
road in the future."
SENATOR HUGGINS asked the difference between the proposed
Stampede area and Nancy Lake.
MR. KING said it would be similar, but the important thing is
that the management would be dictated by the management plan,
which would be developed with a public process. Through that it
is very likely that motorized and nonmotorized use will be very
legitimate and can coexist in the area.
5:00:18 PM
SENATOR HUGGINS said that at Nancy Lake there has been debate
about accessibility and now the state is re-examining the width
of the corridor. It appears to be a lot more complicated than
what Mr. King indicated, he said.
MR. KING said the issues are more complicated for Nancy Lake.
That management plan was created almost 20 years ago, and most
of the lakes were accessed by people who had floatplanes. A new
generation of users has moved into those cabins, and there's
been more demand to access them by snowmobiles and four-
wheelers. "We're trying to find that balance." Right now about
half of the users still want plane access only, and the other
half want to see that changed. That is why the state is re-
opening the management plan, "and we're going out to the public"
and asking what they want for management in the area. Whenever a
lot of people have a lot of ownership in an area, management
decisions takes a fair amount of work to find a balance between
user groups.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked if it would strike a balance to adopt the
corridor for the Stampede with a "qualifier" that it would take
legislative approval to develop it.
5:02:44 PM
MR. KING said he doesn't see his division having a lot of
opposition to a road if that's what everybody wants. "If you
feel that's important to make it so that the Legislature has to
approve that in the future, then that would make sense. I guess
my opinion would be, at this point, the DNR and the DOTPF should
be given that authority to go through that planning process and
figure out what the public wants and what the demands are." It's
a road to nowhere unless the National Park Service agrees to a
road through the national park. There is a lot of public
planning that would have to happen before any road would be
built, unless the management plan shows the public wants the
existing road to be pushed into the recreation area further for
recreational access. That's a very doable thing that probably
wouldn't take as big a process because it doesn't involve the
surrounding national park.
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI announced he would hold SB 108 in
committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HCR 2 - Bill Packet.pdf |
SRES 3/27/2009 3:30:00 PM |
|
| SB 108 - Bill Packet.pdf |
SRES 3/27/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 108 |
| SB 54 - Bill Packet.pdf |
SRES 3/27/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 54 |
| SB 71 - Bill Packet.pdf |
SRES 3/27/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 71 |
| SJR 16 - Bill Packet.pdf |
SRES 3/27/2009 3:30:00 PM |