Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/13/1996 02:55 PM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE BILL NO. 98
An Act making changes related to the aid to families
with dependent children program, the Medicaid program,
the general relief assistance program, and the adult
public assistance program; directing the Department of
Health and Social Services to apply to the federal
government for waivers to implement the changes where
necessary; relating to eligibility for permanent fund
dividends of certain individuals who receive state
assistance, to notice requirements applicable to the
dividend program; and providing for an effective date.
Co-chairman Halford directed that CSSB 98, Version "N,"
dated 4/10/96, be again brought before committee for
continued sectional review. SENATOR LYDA GREEN directed
attention to Page 13 of the draft and commenced review of
"Disqualifying Conditions."
[Tape malfunction. There is no recording for this portion
of the meeting. Minutes reflect transcription of shorthand
notes.]
Co-chairman Halford referenced language at Page 15, line 19,
relating to "a crime that is classified as a felony" and
asked what would happen if serious class-A misdemeanors were
added. CURT LOMAS, Welfare Reform Program, Division of
Public Assistance, Dept. of Health and Social Services,
explained that the wording was precisely taken from federal
welfare reform language. He said he did not know whether
the state could be more restrictive.
Senator Green next noted subparagraphs (1), (2), and (3) at
Page 16, lines 17 through 19, and advised that they relate
to fraud. She further pointed to application process
requirements set forth on Pages 16 and 17.
Directing attention to Page 18, subsection (3)(c), Senator
Green advised that provisions relate to seasonal workers.
Co-chairman Halford referenced the list of utilities within
subsection (B), suggested that a telephone does not appear
to be as basic as other services listed within the section,
and suggested that it be flagged.
[Tape malfunction was corrected at this point. Remaining
minutes reflect transcription of the tape recording of the
meeting.]
Referencing Page 19, Senator Green explained that the
diversion program is the same as HB 78 and the Governor's
bill. In the proposed draft, however, it has been
restricted to adults. Minors had previously been included.
The program allows individuals to receive a lump-sum payment
to ensure that they will not be "going on to the full
benefit program."
Language relating to assistance to minors at Page 20, line
20, was taken from HB 78.
The family self-sufficiency plan set forth on Page 21,
commencing with line 11, will be part of the intake and
evaluation of those coming into the program. It will
involve a plan with benchmarks, time limits, conditions that
must be in place, and how compliance will be achieved.
Page 22 language relating to participation in work
activities was taken directly from federal law. The
emphasis here is on work.
Provisions at Page 23 reflect existing law.
Directing attention to Page 24 language concerning agency
collaboration, Senator Green advised of instances when the
legislature had need of more information than is currently
provided. She further noted that temporary positions
involved in the effort are exempt. Interagency efforts are
also to be devoted to job training and development.
Senator Green next referenced Page 25 and noted that a
proposed Amendment would remove Federal-State Cooperation
language commencing at line 6. It is considered to be "too
loose." It gives the department too much authority.
Referencing the Alaska Native Organizations' Family
Assistance Program provisions commencing at Page 25, line
31, Senator Green advised that the commissioner of the Dept.
of Health and Social Services would speak to the issue.
Senator Green indicated that the provisions may ultimately
not be needed.
The Senator referenced provisions for establishment of an
emergency account per language at Page 26 and advised that
inclusion should be a finance committee decision. Language
relates to provisions under the new reform act whereby the
department may receive additional funds from the federal
government, and those funds may not all be spent within a
particular fiscal year. The department will speak to this
issue.
Page 27 language, relating to Appeals and Dispute
Resolution, raises questions regarding department adoption
of regulations establishing the informal dispute resolution
process. Senator Green advised that she did not know
whether a procedure is presently in place for hearings or if
it is necessary to adopt a new process. This area requires
clarification.
Senator Green advised of a proposed amendment which will
relate to Sanctions and Recovery of Costs at Page 27.
Provisions deal both with recipients who refuse to cooperate
as well as those who receive benefits to which they are not
entitled. Civil action is available via subsection (d).
Definitions set forth at Page 28 include terms not
previously defined. Senator Green referenced subsection (7)
and noted drafter inclusion of the word "unemancipated." A
proposed amendment would remove the word.
Senator Green next advised of numerous technical changes
involved in changing the name of the Aid to Families with
Dependent Children to the Alaska Family Independence
Program.
Senator Green referenced Section 13, Page 30, and explained
that the language was provided by the Child Support
Enforcement Division.
END: SFC-96, #78, Side 2
BEGIN: SFC-96, #79, Side 1
The interest rate presently charged in computation of
arrearages is 12 percent. The division has asked that it be
reduced to 6 percent. Senator Randy Phillips noted need for
closer review of the request. Senator Green read from
backup material indicating that, for many years, the 12
percent rate was reasonable given the prevailing rate at
that time. However, a rate of 6 percent per year better
reflects existing rates.
Directing attention to Page 31, Section 15, Senator Green
noted language from HB 78 relating to participation by both
sets of grandparents in support of a child born to minor
parents. The responsibility remains in effect until one of
the parents reaches the age of 18. The parents of the minor
mother are more often involved in support of the infant.
This language would provide some balance to that support.
Section 24, at Page 33, was also requested by CSED. It
relates to correction of clerical and administrative errors
by the agency. Correction of miscalculations of arrearages
is presently very cumbersome.
Section 25 language relating to adverse action against a
delinquent obligor's occupational license was in both HB 78
and the Governor's bill. It provides for issue of a
temporary license in instances of arrearages. A process is
established by which the obligor may work with the agency to
develop a plan for repayment. Provisions cover occupational
and driver licenses. This effort would require a network
between CSED and licensing agencies. The bill specifies a
150-day window in which the obligor must either pay the
arrearage, establish a payment plan, or request an
administrative hearing. Senator Phillips questioned CSED
ability to take on this additional task when the agency has
yet to accomplish its primary purpose. Senator Rieger asked
if the provision is required by federal reform. Senator
Green responded, "This and more is in federal law--in the
federal reform act."
Section 26 incorporates contractors that administer grants
within bill provisions.
Section 30, Page 46, relates to day-care benefits. The only
substantive change is removal of the word "net" (line 6) to
bring language into conformity with federal law.
Senator Green next directed attention to Page 47, line 23,
and noted addition of the following:
or a federal program designated as the successor to the
aide to families with dependent children program.
Referencing Page 49, line 13, Senator Green noted need to
add "and legislature" following the word "governor."
Co-chairman Halford asked if provisions within Sec. 35, at
Page 47, reflect federal law. Senator Green responded
affirmatively. Curt Lomas again came before committee. He
explained that current federal law contains a requirement
for the language. All versions of the personal
responsibility act, including those being considered by
Congress, have a requirement that the state establish rules
which restrict the use of public assistance case information
to purposes specifically related to program administration.
Co-chairman Halford asked if availability of the information
to Legislative Budget and Audit and individual legislators
would violate federal law. Mr. Lomas said Legislative
Budget and Audit currently conducts program audits. He said
he was unfamiliar with what level of access the division has
at the present time.
Referencing statutory citations slated for repeal per Page
48, Co-chairman Halford requested a list of repealers.
Senator Green remarked that the existing AFDC program and
the Jobs program (AS 47.25) constitute the majority of the
citations. She said she would subsequently confirm that
repeals are limited to those programs.
In concluding her review, Senator Green referenced effective
dates listed on Page 51. She noted language within Section
54 allowing for enaction following federal law changes, if
new federal law is forthcoming.
Co-chairman Halford took exception to portions of the bill
relating to Alaska Native Organizations' Family Assistance
areas, suggesting that, "That's a governmental function that
will create Indian country." Senator Green responded,
"There's no opposition to removing that section . . . ."
Co-chairman Halford added that there are benefits in some of
the federal provisions. He said there was nothing wrong
with using the Indian Self-Determination Act to get local
entities--the closest entities to the people--to make
decisions. The question is,
If any of the entities . . . on the list . . . are
now recognized as tribes, and we authorize them to
provide a governmental function . . . defined by a
service area, we're walking into a trap on the
next issue down that road.
As long as the twelve entities listed at Page 26 are
incorporated under the laws of the state of Alaska and do
not have a tribal identity, they are probably the best
entities to do the work. Co-chairman Halford voiced his
understanding that federal law provides benefits to the
state at a higher rate of reimbursement for having these
entities perform the functions. Senator Green subsequently
advised that the entities listed at Page 26 are all
incorporated under the laws of the state. Language within
the bill was also reworded to delete the reference to
tribes. The Senator further noted provisions within
subsection (c) which require the listed Alaska Native
organizations to waive any claim to sovereign immunity.
Co-chairman Halford voiced his understanding that listed
entities would be providing services to all residents of
their areas, both Native and non-Native. A reading of the
bill indicates that service would only be provided to a
"racially defined constituency." KAREN PERDUE,
Commissioner, Dept. of Health and Social Services, explained
that under present language, the organization would write a
plan and apply for the federal portion of the AFDC program.
Subsection (b) would allow the state to participate in that
planning. Funds received from the federal government would
cover only racially defined members. That would not
prohibit the state from contracting with the organization to
provide other services.
Further discussion of operation of the program followed
between Commissioner Perdue and Co-chairman Halford. The
Co-chairman questioned legislative ability to appropriate to
a racially defined function. He suggested that the
separation of the program and service of two classes of
recipients would cause problems. Commissioner Perdue
concurred in concern. She said that when the Governor
expressed his views on the issue, he said it was important
that program benefits be comparable. That does not mean
they have to be exactly the same. The intent is to get
local entities to design programs that work in their
communities. Co-chairman Halford reiterated concern that
the proposed arrangement would create a situation where the
program at Bethel would provide a different benefit to a
Bethel Native than it does to a Bethel non-Native. That
appears to raise equal protection arguments the court system
will not tolerate. Commissioner Perdue pointed to ongoing
WIC program administration by the Tanana Chiefs Conference
on a non-discriminatory basis.
Senator Sharp referenced language within subsection (b),
Page 26, and voiced his belief that, as written, it allows
for a racially defined program. He suggested that removal
of "Alaska Native" within the subsection might cure the
problem. Commissioner Perdue voiced her desire to create
programs that work locally and do not pit one person against
another.
The commissioner stressed need for the department to work
with listed organizations. She expressed concern over
potential for a tribe to write its own plan, apply for the
federal share, and receive the funding. Co-chairman Halford
voiced his understanding that the state share provides the
incentive to work cooperatively with the department. The
commissioner concurred.
Further discussion followed between Co-chairman Frank and
the commissioner regarding operations of the federal block
grant.
Co-chairman Halford voiced additional concern regarding
broad language and authorities as well as the tethering of
occupational licenses to support payments, because of CSED's
past performance.
Co-chairman Halford announced his intention to continue
review of the bill at 3:00 p.m. the following afternoon. He
then asked that the sponsor and department representatives
speak to the packet of proposed amendments.
Senator Green directed attention to the first amendment and
noted that it relates to transitional assistance.
Commissioner Perdue explained that the department presently
authorizes 12 months of child care after an individual
leaves AFDC. Testimony at statewide hearings indicated that
people would leave welfare much faster if they had medical
and child care. The amendment would extend periods of
transitional assistance to 24 months for day care. It would
also extend Medicaid medical care for children for an
additional year. The cost of the Medicaid extension for the
first partial year would be $150.0 in general funds to be
matched by federal dollars. Co-chairman Halford voiced his
understanding that Medicaid would cover the parent for 12
months and the child for 24. The commissioner concurred and
added that the child care portion would cost $700.0 for the
first full year.
END: SFC-96, #79, Side 1
BEGIN: SFC-96, #79, Side 2
Further discussion ensued regarding changes to the program
intended to discourage individuals from going on welfare for
a period of time in order to obtain extended medical
benefits.
Additional discussion followed concerning the voucher system
for child care and calculation of costs per child. Mr.
Lomas advised of a typical cost of $450 a month.
In response to a question from Co-chairman Halford regarding
numbers associated with 185 percent of the poverty level for
Alaska, Mr. Lomas advised of $2,501 a month gross income for
a family of three.
Senator Rieger expressed a desire to delete language
relating to 150-day temporary license provisions. He said
he would be more comfortable with establishment via
regulation, if such a provision is mandated by federal law.
Co-chairman Halford voiced a desire to delete the entire
license section. He acknowledged that the federal
government might impose the requirement.
Senator Randy Phillips referenced language relating to
grandparent liability (Page 31) and quoted the following
concern raised by a constituent who practices family law:
Teenagers who do not want to follow household
rules can easily squeeze into one of the
exceptions and begin collecting child support
based on all four of their respective parents'
income . . . .
SHIRLEY DEAN, Juneau Office, Child Support Enforcement
Division, Dept. of Revenue, came before committee. She
advised that if the teenage mother voluntarily leaves her
home, her parents would not be obligated, but the parents of
the infant's teenage father would be. Responsibility for
non-custodial parenthood would be transferred to the
father's parents. Senator Green noted that grandparent
responsibilities were included within HB 78 via a floor
amendment in the House. Co-chairman Frank asked if paternal
grandparents would have to provide support if the teenage
mother resides with her parents. Ms. Dean responded
affirmatively and advised that the reverse would be true if
the teenage mother was living with the teenage father's
parents. The attempt is to equalize responsibility between
both sets of parents.
Lengthy discussion of grandparent provisions followed using
a number of different scenarios.
Additional discussion ensued regarding the two-year bridge
provision and the five-year limitation on the program. Co-
chairman Halford suggested that the committee might wish to
include sunset provisions for the two-year bridge. Senator
Green cautioned that a two-year sunset might not allow
sufficient time. Mr. Lomas reiterated that current law
provides a 12-month transitional period. Provisions within
the proposed bill would extend the program for an additional
12 months. The program is not new but rather an extension
of an existing program. Co-chairman Halford voiced his
understanding that the fiscal note only covers the
extension. Mr. Lomas concurred.
Co-chairman Halford announced a work session on the bill
commencing at noon the following day. He advised of intent
to have a proposed committee substitute available for review
by 3:00 p.m. Senator Phillips voiced intent to prepare an
amendment to remove provisions relating to grandparent
responsibility. He also concurred in Senator Rieger's
proposed change to licensing provisions. Co-chairman
Halford expressed a preference to remove both provisions.
Senator Green advised of a proposed amendment providing for
CSED license review to become effective with implementation
of federal welfare.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 6:00 p.m.
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