Legislature(2025 - 2026)BUTROVICH 205

03/03/2025 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
03:30:44 PM Start
03:31:39 PM Confirmation Hearing(s)
03:50:52 PM SB92
05:03:22 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Consideration of Governor’s Appointees: TELECONFERENCED
Jessie Chmielowski, Alaska Oil and Gas
Conservation Commission
+= SB 92 CORP. INCOME TAX; OIL & GAS ENTITIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
          SB  92-CORP. INCOME TAX; OIL & GAS ENTITIES                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:50:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL announced  the consideration of SENATE  BILL NO. 92                                                               
"An Act establishing an income  tax on certain entities producing                                                               
or transporting  oil or gas  in the  state; and providing  for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:51:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ROBERT  YUNDT,  District N,  Alaska  State  Legislature,                                                               
Juneau, Alaska, briefly introduced SB 92.  He said the goal of SB
92 was  to level the  playing field and  ensure that all  oil and                                                               
gas companies  that work in Alaska  were taxed on the  same level                                                               
playing  field,  whether   they're  a  C  corporation   or  an  S                                                               
corporation.  He emphasized  that S  corporations outside  of oil                                                               
and gas  [sector] who make less  than 5 million a  year would not                                                               
be included in SB 92.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:53:00 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony on SB 92.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:53:50 PM                                                                                                                    
KARA MORIARTY, President, Alaska  Oil and Gas Association (AOGA),                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska, testified  on behalf of AOGA  in opposition to                                                               
SB 92. She explained that  AOGA, a professional trade association                                                               
for  oil  and  gas  producers, required  unanimous  consensus  of                                                               
members  on tax  matters. She  said AOGA  opposed SB  92 claiming                                                               
that it imposed a new  discriminatory income tax on select firms.                                                               
She said SB 92 targeted pass-through  entities in the oil and gas                                                               
sector  with  incomes exceeding  $5  million,  affecting a  small                                                               
number of companies out of  over 11,000 S corporations in Alaska.                                                               
She  highlighted  unintended  consequences of  SB  92,  including                                                               
retroactivity,  potential  double  taxation, and  the  impact  on                                                               
business  confidence  and  fiscal  stability.  She  urged  proper                                                               
modeling and analysis,  noting the potential impacts of  SB 92 to                                                               
Alaska  tax  policy  and  to the  industry's  ability  to  remain                                                               
competitive under  additional pressure  from stagnant  oil prices                                                               
and  reduced investments.  She emphasized  positive contributions                                                               
of  the  oil and  gas  industry  to Alaska's  economy,  including                                                               
increased production  and job creation,  and urged  the committee                                                               
to reject SB 92.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:58:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL asked where AOGA  anticipated double taxation under                                                               
SB 92.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:58:40 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY noted  the need for clarification  and said analysis                                                               
and  modeling of  SB 92  would  help identify  those issues.  She                                                               
suggested  major   corporations  in   Alaska  may   have  private                                                               
subsidiaries and LLCs that would be  subject to taxes under SB 92                                                               
in addition to the corporate income tax they already paid.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:59:13 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL  asked whether AOGA's  concern would be  removed if                                                               
double taxation was addressed.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORIARTY answered potentially.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:59:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  CLAMAN noted  AOGCC's unanimous  decision by  members to                                                               
oppose SB 92  and the perception that SB 92  targeted one or more                                                               
entities.  He  asked whether  AOGCC  membership  took a  position                                                               
regarding legislation that  would apply to all  S corporations in                                                               
Alaska rather than just one or two.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:00:06 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL clarified  that the question was  for AOGA members,                                                               
not AOGCC.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR CLAMAN affirmed.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:00:23 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY said  there were currently 16  AOGA member companies                                                               
that  all  opposed  SB  92.   She  said  AOGA  had  not  analyzed                                                               
legislation that  would tax all  11,000 plus corporations  in the                                                               
state and  said such legislation  had not been introduced  to the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:01:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN asked whether AOGA  found that C corporations were                                                               
currently experiencing double taxation.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:01:28 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY  said it was  her understanding that  C corporations                                                               
were paying  taxes legally required  by the corporate  income tax                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:01:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI   asked  whether  it  was   Ms.  Moriarty's                                                               
understanding  that [British  Petroleum]  BP  paid the  corporate                                                               
income  tax  during the  several  decades  they did  business  in                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:02:00 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  MORIARTY said  it was  her  understanding that  BP paid  all                                                               
their legally required taxes in the state of Alaska.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:02:08 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if it  was also her understanding that                                                               
Exxon, Conoco and Santos paid corporate income taxes in Alaska.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:02:15 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY said  that it was her understanding  that all AOGA's                                                               
member companies  paid all their  required taxes in the  state of                                                               
Alaska.  She  recalled  several   years  prior  when  there  were                                                               
negative  income  taxes because  prices  were  so low,  sometimes                                                               
negative.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:02:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked for the  rationale behind one  of the                                                               
major producers  not paying  corporate income  tax while  all the                                                               
rest do.  He asked why  that one company should  get preferential                                                               
treatment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:02:56 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  MORIARTY  said  it  was  fair to  say  that  companies  were                                                               
attracted to  Alaska for  a variety of  reasons. She  pointed out                                                               
that  in  1980  Alaska  chose  not to  have  an  income  tax  for                                                               
individuals as  well as pass-through  entities. She  said Hilcorp                                                               
was a  private company  when they came  to Alaska  thirteen years                                                               
ago and they  came to Alaska to invest millions  and now billions                                                               
of dollars  in Cook Inlet and  the North Slope. She  said the law                                                               
was in place at that time.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:03:51 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  whether she  recalled that  when BPs                                                               
assets were being purchased [by  Hilcorp], there were discussions                                                               
about  the fact  that,  as  an S  corporation,  Hilcorp would  be                                                               
exempt from the taxes incurred by  a C corporation. He said there                                                               
were calls for that to be fixed.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:04:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY  said she did recall  that and referred to  a recent                                                               
memo from the Department of  Revenue, highlighting an increase in                                                               
production in  Prudhoe Bay, a 45-year-old  field, since Hilcorp's                                                               
arrival  on  the North  Slope.  She  pointed to  Hilcorp's  track                                                               
record  in Alaska  - creating  jobs and  revitalizing Cook  Inlet                                                               
which, she  suggested, delayed the necessity  for the legislature                                                               
to make a policy decision.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:05:34 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HUGHES emphasized the  constitutional mandate to maximize                                                               
resource  development   benefits.  She  questioned   whether  the                                                               
concept  of  fair  share  in   oil  resource  development  should                                                               
encompass corporate  taxes. She differentiated  between corporate                                                               
tax,  applicable  to  all  industries,  and  the  specific  taxes                                                               
related to oil production. She  noted that oil production tax and                                                               
royalty take are  more significant revenue sources  for the state                                                               
than  the  general  corporate tax.  She  sought  confirmation  on                                                               
whether the  fair share included  corporate taxes or  was limited                                                               
to oil-specific taxes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:06:50 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  MORIARTY answered  that  the  concept of  a  fair share  was                                                               
subjective,  including in  the context  of corporate  income tax.                                                               
She suggested  that from an industry  perspective, the government                                                               
take included:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
• royalties paid to the state as the landowner                                                                                  
• production taxes                                                                                                              
• corporate income taxes                                                                                                        
• property taxes paid to local governments                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. Moriarty  highlighted local property taxes,  noting that they                                                               
were  crucial  for  communities like  the  Fairbanks  North  Star                                                               
Borough. She emphasized that the  oil and gas industry viewed all                                                               
these  taxes as  part  of  the government's  take,  and that  the                                                               
decision  to  include corporate  income  tax  in determining  the                                                               
maximum  benefit  to  the  people  [of  Alaska]  was  up  to  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:08:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HUGHES  opined that  maximum benefit  included production                                                               
taxes  and royalties,  not corporate  taxes.  She concurred  that                                                               
modeling  for SB  92  was  necessary. She  asked  whether it  was                                                               
AOGA's  view that  increased taxes  led to  decreased investment,                                                               
decreased jobs and ultimately decreased production.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:09:36 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY answered that, for  any business, higher payments to                                                               
government  leaves less  capital  for businesses  to invest  back                                                               
into  themselves.  She  said  this   reduction  in  funds  limits                                                               
expansion. She  suggested that  front-line contractors  in Alaska                                                               
could  offer further  insight  due to  their  direct exposure  to                                                               
policy effects.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:10:32 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL stated that SB 92  related to oil and gas companies                                                               
that  are  not  organized  as  C  corporations.  She  said  these                                                               
companies typically have  fewer than 100 shareholders  and do not                                                               
have  non-resident   aliens  as   shareholders.  She   noted  the                                                               
Department of  Revenue (DOR), Tax  Division's reluctance  to name                                                               
the specific company or companies affected  by SB 92 and asked if                                                               
AOGA  would be  willing to  disclose whether  there was  only one                                                               
company that would  be affected by SB 92 or  if there were others                                                               
that could be impacted.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:11:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY  answered that  two of  AOGAs member  companies were                                                               
registered  as S  corporations in  the state  of Alaska  and that                                                               
they very well could have profits over $5 million.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:12:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI   referred  to  recent   lease  expenditure                                                               
numbers  provided  by the  Department  of  Revenue compared  with                                                               
figures from 2015:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
•  In 2015, Prudhoe Bay had $773 million in capital expenditures,                                                               
 which declined to $346.7 million in preliminary 2024 figures.                                                                  
•  Operating expenditures (OPEX) in  2015 were $2.5  billion, but                                                               
   they dropped to $1.37 billion in 2020.                                                                                       
•  The number of jobs in the oil industry at Prudhoe Bay declined                                                               
   from over 15,000 in 2013 to approximately 8,000, representing                                                                
   a roughly 50 percent reduction.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI concluded  that tax  cuts did  not lead  to                                                               
increased investment or job creation at Prudhoe Bay.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:13:49 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY  countered that the  significant oil price  crash in                                                               
2015 and  2016 led  to a  loss of  jobs and  increased efficiency                                                               
among operators.  She highlighted the  new operator on  the North                                                               
Slope in  Prudhoe Bay  for their  focus on  driving costs  to the                                                               
lowest levels  and contributing  to efficiency  improvements. She                                                               
said that  despite the economic  downturn, production  in Prudhoe                                                               
Bay  surpassed  forecasts,  indicating  improved  efficiency  and                                                               
higher  production  rates. She  stated  that  the change  in  tax                                                               
policy  in  2013 aimed  to  direct  expenses towards  production,                                                               
which is now  evident in the increased  efficiency and production                                                               
levels.  She said  contractors were  busier  currently than  they                                                               
were  in the  pipeline days  because of  projects like  the Pikka                                                               
project and the National Petroleum  Reserve in Alaska (NPRA), and                                                               
an  uptick  in business  and  drilling  wells in  Prudhoe  versus                                                               
maintenance projects.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:16:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI   noted  the  failure  of   the  initiative                                                               
referendum in  2014 and its  subsequent impact on job  losses and                                                               
investments. He said that despite  oil prices remaining above $90                                                               
per barrel  post-referendum, BP announced  layoffs of  around 400                                                               
to  475  employees.  He   emphasized  the  contradiction  between                                                               
promised job creation and actual job cuts by BP.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  agreed with the concept  of government take                                                               
as  a comprehensive  measure including  corporate income  tax and                                                               
acknowledged the  difficulty of determining the  optimal value or                                                               
benefit  derived  from natural  resources.  He  asked whether  [a                                                               
structure in  which] some companies  pay no tax in  one component                                                               
[of government take]  was achieving the maximum  benefit [for the                                                               
state].                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:17:19 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY said  [AOGA] companies were adhering  to the current                                                               
policy and laws,  which led to a significant return  to the state                                                               
in increased  royalties and production. She  theorized this would                                                               
not have  been the case considering  the shift of Prudhoe  Bay in                                                               
the BP portfolio. She reiterated  that the current contractor may                                                               
not pay  corporate income tax, but  she said they have  been good                                                               
for the state  of Alaska regarding royalties,  production for the                                                               
long term and extending the life of the field.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:18:16 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI recollected the  More Alaska Production Act,                                                               
which initially  promised increased  oil production to  1 million                                                               
barrels  per day  within a  decade. He  noted current  output was                                                               
below 500,000  barrels daily  and that recent  growth was  not on                                                               
state-owned  lands,  but in  the  federally  owned lands  in  the                                                               
National  Petroleum   Reserve-Alaska  (NPRA),  where   the  state                                                               
offered $1  billion in  tax incentives but  does not  receive any                                                               
royalties due to federal ownership.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:19:04 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL   noted  that  the  memo   under  discussion  from                                                               
Department of  Revenue (DOR)  was in  response to  questions from                                                               
the committee following  the February 20, 2025 hearing  of SB 92.                                                               
She said the memo was available to the public online.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:19:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  noted that  government structured  tax incentives                                                               
or  tax  cuts  to  incentivize  something  and  would  not  offer                                                               
incentives  for   something  already  in  place.   He  noted  the                                                               
observation  that  when  Hilcorp  came to  Alaska,  they  were  a                                                               
private  corporation,  and  were   aware  Alaska  didn't  have  a                                                               
corporate income tax  on S corporations. He asked  whether it was                                                               
Ms.  Moriarty's  assertion  that  had  they  expected  to  pay  a                                                               
corporate  income  tax,  Hilcorp  would not  have  purchased  BPS                                                               
assets.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:20:14 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY said she was  not suggesting that and said Hilcorp's                                                               
corporate status had not changed since they came to Alaska.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORIARTY recalled  participating  in  debates regarding  the                                                               
goal of producing  a million barrels per day.  She explained that                                                               
the sources  of oil  production for  that goal  included offshore                                                               
resources,  oil from  federal lands  such as  ANWR and  NPRA, and                                                               
increased drilling in both new areas and existing fields.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:21:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   DUNBAR   asked  whether   Willow   or   Pikka  were   S                                                               
corporations.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:21:55 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY said they were not.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:22:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNBAR  asked  whether  those  corporations  which  were                                                               
making by far  the largest investments in the  state, were paying                                                               
corporate income taxes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:22:06 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY said  due to tax-payer confidentiality,  she did not                                                               
know  their  corporate  income   tax  returns  looked  like.  She                                                               
reiterated  that, to  her knowledge,  all  AOGA member  companies                                                               
filed taxes legally in the state of Alaska.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:22:23 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   DUNBAR  asked   when   Santos   began  making   serious                                                               
investments in Alaska.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:22:34 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY said the original  parent company was OilSearch. She                                                               
did not recall the year they first picked up leases in Alaska.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:22:54 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNBAR asked  whether Santos  was a  C corporation  when                                                               
they  entered the  state  and  whether they  were  currently a  C                                                               
corporation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:23:00 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. MORIARTY affirmed that, from her knowledge, they were.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:23:36 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MYERS  posed  a  hypothetical situation  in  which  a  C                                                               
corporation  had a  wholly owned  subsidiary which  handled their                                                               
pipelines.  He  asked whether  the  corporation  would be  double                                                               
taxed  on  revenues  that  first  passed  through  the  pipeline-                                                               
owned/operated corporation under SB 92.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:24:32 PM                                                                                                                    
MICHAEL   WILLIAMS,   Corporate   Tax  Manager,   Tax   Division,                                                               
Department of  Revenue (DOR),  Anchorage, Alaska,  answered that,                                                               
double  taxation  would not  necessarily  result  in the  example                                                               
described. He  explained that typically  a group  of corporations                                                               
operate as  a C corporation and  if they own a  Limited Liability                                                               
Company  (LLC) outright,  or 100  percent, then  the LLC  will be                                                               
treated as a corporation as is  the rest of the C corporation. He                                                               
offered an alternative  to the hypothetical in which  the LLC was                                                               
half  owned by  a  C corporation  and half  owned  by some  other                                                               
entity for which  the LLC was pass-through. In  that situation he                                                               
said the  LLC would become a  taxable entity if it  had more than                                                               
$5  million in  income: half  the income  would attribute  to the                                                               
owners of  the LLC and the  other half to the  C corporation. So,                                                               
he  said, for  the  C  corporation there  was  the potential  for                                                               
double taxation.  He said DOR  suggested ways  to fix that  in SB
92.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:26:14 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL recognized  Senator Merrick,  Representative Burke                                                               
and Representative Bynam.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:26:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony on SB 92.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:26:47 PM                                                                                                                    
JERRY WEBRE,  President, Little Red Services,  Anchorage, Alaska,                                                               
introduced himself and  said Little Red Services  operated on the                                                               
North  Slope  and  strongly  opposed  SB  92.  He  reported  that                                                               
Hilcorp's  production had  increased  significantly, from  17,000                                                               
barrels per  day when  BP sold  the field  to 50,000  barrels per                                                               
day,  providing  substantial  resources  to the  state.  He  said                                                               
passing  SB 92  could create  higher energy  costs, harm  Alaskan                                                               
suppliers  and jobs,  and  disincentivize  further investment  in                                                               
2025,  as  Hilcorp  planned  to invest  $1  billion  to  increase                                                               
production on  the North Slope  and in  Cook Inlet. He  also said                                                               
Hilcorp planned to spend $200 million per year in Cook Inlet.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WEBRE  said given Alaska's  need for economic growth  and new                                                               
investment and  the departure of  so many oil and  gas operators,                                                               
it  was not  the time  to raise  taxes on  the industry.  He said                                                               
proper  modeling and  analysis  were needed  to  assess the  full                                                               
impact on  affected businesses. He  said the Little  Red Services                                                               
team  urged the  legislature  to promote  healthy relations  with                                                               
producers and not discourage producers from investing in Alaska.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:30:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked  for   the  source  of  the  numbers                                                               
provided in the testimony:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
• $1 billion planned investment by Hilcorp                                                                                      
• $200 million per year investment in Cook Inlet                                                                                
• etc.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI explained that  the legislature did not have                                                               
access to  that information and  asked whether that data  and its                                                               
source could be provided to the committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:30:51 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WEBRE said  it was industry knowledge,  gathered from working                                                               
in the business and talking with clients.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:31:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked for written documentation.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WEBRE said he could not provide written documentation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:31:12 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL recognized Representative Coulombe.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:31:37 PM                                                                                                                    
LESTER  BLACK,   Incoming  President,  Alaska   Support  Industry                                                               
Alliance,  Anchorage, Alaska,  introduced  himself  and said  the                                                               
Alaska Support Industry Alliance,  was a 46-year-old professional                                                               
trade  organization with  over 500  member  companies and  35,000                                                               
employees in Alaska. He said  the Alliance opposed SB 92, arguing                                                               
that targeting  one company, Hilcorp,  in one industry was  not a                                                               
well-thought-out tax policy and  could lead to uncertainty, which                                                               
is harmful to  investment. He highlighted the  negative impact of                                                               
retroactive tax changes, citing the  exit of British Petroleum as                                                               
an example of how such  policies can jeopardize future growth and                                                               
investment in Alaska. He pointed out  that SB 92 would affect 125                                                               
Alaskan  companies  that work  for  Hilcorp,  many of  whom  were                                                               
Alliance  members, and  asserted that  smaller Alaskan  companies                                                               
would  be   disproportionately  impacted  compared   with  larger                                                               
companies based outside Alaska.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Black observed  support from  the current  administration in                                                               
Washington  DC  for  significant   growth  in  Alaska's  resource                                                               
development.  He  acknowledged  the   effort  to  address  budget                                                               
shortfalls  in  the  short  term but  warned  that  unstable  tax                                                               
policies could  jeopardize Alaska's  private sector,  natural gas                                                               
supply, and future tax revenues.  He urged against the passage of                                                               
SB 92.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:34:48 PM                                                                                                                    
KELLY DROOP, Regional Manager,  Pape Kenworth, Anchorage, Alaska,                                                               
testified in opposition to SB 92.  In addition to her position at                                                               
Kenworth,  Ms.  Droop  said  she  also  served  on  the  Resource                                                               
Development  Council and  the Alaska  Support Industry  Alliance.                                                               
She  expressed  concerns  about   SB  92's  potential  impact  on                                                               
Alaska's  private  sector,  oil  and gas  industry,  and  overall                                                               
business  climate.  She warned  that  altering  tax policy  post-                                                               
investment   could   deter   future   investments,   jeopardizing                                                               
affordable   energy  and   Alaska  businesses.   She  urged   the                                                               
legislature to  maintain stability to  foster growth and  the tax                                                               
base rather than  increasing tax rates after  companies have made                                                               
investment decisions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:36:24 PM                                                                                                                    
KATIE CAPOZZI, President, Alaska  Chamber of Commerce, Anchorage,                                                               
Alaska,  introduced   herself  and   testified  against   SB  92,                                                               
expressing  strong opposition  on  behalf of  the chamber,  which                                                               
represented over 700  businesses and 58,000 workers.  She said SB
92 conflicted with the chamber's  policies to support the oil and                                                               
gas industry and  to oppose new targeted taxes  for any industry.                                                               
She argued that SB 92 could  jeopardize one in six jobs in Alaska                                                               
and  undermine   the  state's   energy  sector   by  discouraging                                                               
investment and production, potentially  reducing state revenue in                                                               
the  long  term.  She  said SB  92  lacked  independent  economic                                                               
analysis  and   could  set  a   precedent  for  taxing   other  S                                                               
corporations in  other industries,  such as fishing,  banking and                                                               
medical care. She urged against the passage of SB 92.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:39:14 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL  noted testimony based  on a perception that  SB 92                                                               
targeted oil  and gas producers  and that taxation would  be more                                                               
acceptable  if  it  were  more broadly  applied.  She  noted  Ms.                                                               
Capozzi's  apparent concern  that  SB 92  would  lead to  broader                                                               
application [of  corporate taxation] to other  S corporations and                                                               
asked for clarification.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:39:57 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.   CAPOZZI  noted   that  there   had  not   been  legislation                                                               
introducing  taxes on  all S  corporations, but  she acknowledged                                                               
that the  Chamber was  likely to oppose  such measures.  She said                                                               
that signaling to any potential  future business investor that if                                                               
a business  is successful and  making money, that  business might                                                               
be  the next  target for  a  change in  the tax  system does  not                                                               
promote a positive investment climate in the state.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:40:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI noted  that the  state had  a $536  million                                                               
deficit between the current closing  fiscal year and the next. He                                                               
asked  whether  the  Chamber  could offer  any  support  for  the                                                               
legislature as it worked to close the deficit.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:41:10 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CAPOZZI said  the Chamber advocated for  a sustainable fiscal                                                               
plan  and emphasized  the  need for  a  functioning spending  cap                                                               
before considering broad-based tax  measures. She said a spending                                                               
cap  was essential  to ensure  fiscal responsibility  and prevent                                                               
excessive spending  during deficits. Without this  assurance, she                                                               
said the  business community was hesitant  to support broad-based                                                               
revenue measures.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:42:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked what  spending cap level  the Chamber                                                               
would  support. He  noted that  to achieve  a zero  deficit would                                                               
require a  spending cut of  $350 million.  He asked what  sort of                                                               
broad-based  measures the  Chamber would  support, for  example a                                                               
sales tax or personal income tax.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:42:35 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CAPOZZI  noted that  spending caps  were proposed  every year                                                               
but did not get far enough to  have hearings or to be vetted. She                                                               
said there had not been a  proposal that allowed for analysis and                                                               
meaningful work toward a solution.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:43:13 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  whether the  Chamber would  consider                                                               
supporting  a sales  tax or  personal income  tax as  broad-based                                                               
measures.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:43:22 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CAPOZZI said  that until there was a serious  spending cap in                                                               
place, she  did not anticipate  Chamber proposals or  support for                                                               
revenue measures.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:43:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR noted past advocacy  by the Chamber for a spending                                                               
cap. He asked whether the  Chamber envisioned a spending cap that                                                               
included the  [Permanent Fund Dividend]  PFD or if the  PFD would                                                               
be outside of the spending cap.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:44:03 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  CAPOZZI said  Chamber membership  had differing  opinions on                                                               
whether a  spending cap  would include the  PFD. She  argued that                                                               
the opportunity  to have hearings  on a spending cap  would allow                                                               
for  analysis  and  vetting  of various  options.  She  said  the                                                               
Chamber did not  have a position regarding whether  the PFD would                                                               
be in or out [of a spending cap].                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:44:37 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI noted the claims  that SB 92 was targeted on                                                               
the  [oil  and  gas]  industry.  He observed  that  in  2013  the                                                               
legislature passed  SB 21  and voters  tried to  repeal SB  21 in                                                               
2014. He  recalled that  the [the  oil and  gas] industry  made a                                                               
series  of promises  during that  time, that  if the  legislature                                                               
massively  cut  oil  taxes,  there   would  be  more  jobs,  more                                                               
investment, more revenue for the  state, a growing permanent fund                                                               
dividend and a  million barrels of oil per day.  He asserted that                                                               
[instead], the state has:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
• 50 percent of the jobs                                                                                                        
• 50 percent of the investment                                                                                                  
• much less than 50 percent of the state revenue                                                                                
• about 25 percent of the PFD                                                                                                   
• less than 500,000 barrels [of oil] per day                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  maintained that SB  92 was not a  target on                                                               
the industry.  He said the oil  and gas industry did  not fulfill                                                               
the  promises made  [to the  state] in  exchange for  massive tax                                                               
cuts.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:46:04 PM                                                                                                                    
LEILA KIMBRELL, Executive  Director, Resource Development Council                                                               
(RDC) for Alaska, Anchorage, Alaska,  introduced and outlined the                                                               
RDC's  representation of  various  industries including  fishing,                                                               
tourism, timber,  mining, and oil  and gas. She  emphasized RDC's                                                               
long-standing advocacy  for a strong private  sector, responsible                                                               
fiscal policies,  and stable tax policies  to encourage long-term                                                               
investment and economic  expansion. She asserted that  SB 92 does                                                               
not  align  with  these  principles, as  it  unfairly  targets  S                                                               
corporations in the oil and  gas sector without considering other                                                               
sectors with  similar income thresholds. She  highlighted SB 92's                                                               
retroactive   nature   and    suggested   potential   legal   and                                                               
constitutional  issues.  She  suggested SB  92  could  negatively                                                               
impact future resource development and Alaska's competitiveness.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIMBRELL  warned that  SB 92 could  lead to  less investment,                                                               
development,  production,   and  job   opportunities,  ultimately                                                               
reducing  state   revenue  and  threatening   long-term  economic                                                               
growth.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:49:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  HUGHES   noted  RDC's   representation  of   the  mining                                                               
industry. She  said support for  SB 92 was  in part based  on the                                                               
non-renewable nature of  oil and gas. She noted  that mining also                                                               
involved   non-renewable  resources   and  that   there  were   S                                                               
corporations in  the mining industry.  She asked whether  RDC was                                                               
concerned that the mining industry [might be targeted] next.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:50:13 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. KIMBRELL affirmed RDC's concern  that a measure targeting one                                                               
industry  for  revenue  could lead  to  future  targeted  revenue                                                               
attempts  for other  industries.  She said  it  was important  to                                                               
recognize  the chilling  message sent  by SB  92 to  investors in                                                               
other resource development industries such as mining.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:50:57 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HUGHES noted  RDC's concerns regarding constitutionality.                                                               
She  opined  that  SB  92   narrowly  targets  specific  resource                                                               
development  companies   for  the  9.4  percent   corporate  tax,                                                               
suggesting  it  may  infringe on  equal  protection  rights.  She                                                               
observed that  the current 9.5  percent corporate tax  applies to                                                               
all C corporations, but SB 92  would apply only to S corporations                                                               
in  resource development.  She  suggested that  SB  92 should  be                                                               
referred  to the  Judiciary Committee  and to  Department of  Law                                                               
(DOL).  She asked  whether RDCs  constitutionality concerns  were                                                               
for the broader  implications or were more focused  on the single                                                               
company.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:52:43 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. KIMBRELL acknowledged the  complexity of thoroughly analyzing                                                               
a  legislative  bill  and  concurred   with  calls  for  rigorous                                                               
modeling  [of  SB  92].  She   deferred  the  recommendation  for                                                               
subsequent  committee  referral  to the  appropriate  legislative                                                               
body.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:53:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HUGHES  clarified that it  was not her intention  that SB
92  be applied  to all  S  corporations to  address questions  of                                                               
equal protection.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:54:21 PM                                                                                                                    
THOMAS  WALSH,  Managing  Partner,  Petrotechnical  Resources  of                                                               
Alaska, LLC (PRA), Anchorage, Alaska,  testified in opposition to                                                               
SB  92. He  stated that  SB 92  targeted Hilcorp  and would  also                                                               
impact   other  independent   explorers  and   smaller  companies                                                               
exploring  in Alaska,  which could  discourage investment  in the                                                               
state. He  highlighted Hilcorp's arrival  in Alaska in  2012 when                                                               
Cook  Inlet   gas  production  was  declining,   and  said  their                                                               
investments delayed  a gas supply  crisis by  15 to 20  years. He                                                               
said  Hilcorp's investments  in Cook  Inlet and  the North  Slope                                                               
were essential  for maintaining gas  supply and  revitalizing oil                                                               
production from legacy fields. He  argued that SB 92 would create                                                               
a  major  disincentive for  independent  operators  to invest  in                                                               
Alaska, which he said was not in the best interest of Alaskans.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH found  it ironic that the proceeds of  SB 92 would fund                                                               
energy projects,  given Hilcorp's pivotal role  in sustaining the                                                               
state's energy infrastructure.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:57:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI commented  regarding testimony  charging SB
92  with  targeting  one  specific company.  He  noted  that  the                                                               
committee asked Department of Revenue  (DOR) which entities would                                                               
be impacted by SB 92 and DOR declined to specify.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:58:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNBAR noted  that Mr.  Walsh suggested  SB 92  proceeds                                                               
would  be  spent   on  grid  upgrades  and   explained  that  the                                                               
legislature could  not designate [revenue] funds  to any specific                                                               
spending. He  said there was  still hope for Federal  grants [for                                                               
grid  support].  He emphasized  that  education  funding was  his                                                               
highest priority.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:58:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL  explained that  previous iterations  of SB  92 did                                                               
indicate that revenue generated should fund energy projects.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:59:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR apologized to Mr. Walsh  and said he was not aware                                                               
of that history.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:59:42 PM                                                                                                                    
CAROLINE  STORM,  Executive  Director,  Coalition  for  Education                                                               
Equity, Anchorage,  Alaska, testified  in support  of SB  92. She                                                               
emphasized   the  urgent   need   to   address  the   chronically                                                               
underfunded  school system  in  Alaska and  pointed  out that  20                                                               
students  in  Sleetmute  were attending  school  in  a  condemned                                                               
building. She argued  that the legislature must  raise revenue to                                                               
meet  its   constitutional  obligation  to  fund   education  and                                                               
maintenance projects.  She urged the  committee to pass SB  92 to                                                               
address these critical funding gaps.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:01:02 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL kept public testimony on SB 92 open.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:01:09 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL held SB 92 in committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:01:44 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL discussed  the cash  credit  program initiated  in                                                               
2012,  in which  the State  of Alaska  provided cash  payments to                                                               
companies  that invested  in drilling  [oil and  gas] wells.  She                                                               
said the  program resulted in significant  financial strain, with                                                               
billions of  dollars spent  on cash credits  the state  could not                                                               
afford. She highlighted the unique  challenge Alaska faces due to                                                               
the absence  of a personal income  tax since 1980 and  said other                                                               
states  without personal  income tax  have developed  alternative                                                               
methods to  tax companies, particularly S  corporations and LLCs.                                                               
She  emphasized  the  need  to address  this  taxation  issue  to                                                               
stabilize the state's financial situation.                                                                                      

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Jessie Chmielowski AOGCC Resume 2024_Redacted.pdf SRES 3/3/2025 3:30:00 PM
3.3.25 DOR Response to SRES SB92 Questions.pdf SRES 3/3/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 92